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Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,672
How about how people still defend him? Usually with whataboutism or downright racist statements like "he brought civilization to the Americas".
People who defend him seem to be beholden to tradition. The whole, "I was taught this to be true by people who were taught it to be true by OTHER people who were taught it to be true, so it MUST be true. Stop rocking the boat by saying otherwise!"

That's why I kinda hate tradition for the sake of tradition and don't hold respect for people trying to keep such traditions alive, particularly traditions that are based/formed on hate, subjugation, suffering, racism, and exclusion, as well as whitewashing atrocities and other negative actions (traditions that encourage love and togetherness, I'm more lenient towards). It's the lies old folk tell themselves and want to brainwash young folk into thinking is the truth. I hate it. Especially goddamn Christopher Columbus.

And shit like Columbus's atrocities, stuff like the Trail of Tears and even the recent shit with the South Dakota bitch-Governor preventing the Native Americans from keeping Corona-spreading tourists off their land and Washington disease center sending body bags to local tribes asking for medical help, being part Native American myself, it fucking sickens me to the CORE.

I know people have made the point that Italian-Americans celebrate it with pride more because Italian-Americans don't have a special holiday and that's the closest they got for themselves. I say, there are BETTER Italians out there to dedicate a holiday towards. Pick another day, pick another historical figure worth celebrating and make a new holiday. I don't think many would mind. Everybody loves a holiday. It gives everybody a reason to celebrate, and as I said, I might not be a blind supporter of "tradition", but traditions based on good deeds, encouraging love and togetherness aren't a bad thing. Blindly(or in some cases, willfully-blindly) celebrating Christopher Columbus as a good person that founded "America" is NOT a good thing.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
A product of vile white supremacy through and through.

I don't understand what the fuck happened on the first page.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,003
I agree OP.

Baffling how he is revered, and in some parts of Spain, I found old people who almost worshipped him.
The fact that my country's coin is named after him pisses me off everytime I recall it.

Fucking monster.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,025
It seems like I've never met anyone who actually liked or cared about Columbus. what i've seen are conservatives and centrists who oppose change in all forms. so they will use whataboutisms to derail discussion about possibly ending the holiday.

their mindset: i grew up with (thing) therefore we should continue (thing)

Screen_Shot_2016-10-10_at_12.31.41_PM_idhlyj.jpg
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,116
People saw "Fuck Christopher Columbus" and started making pop culture references? I don't get it, could someone explain?

But yeah, fuck this dude.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Columbus' Italian, actually

There's no hyping of him. You're told the story of the caravels, then generally the fact that he was a evil slaver for a while, and that's basically it

In the U.K. we were taught conflicting things - Viking navigators may have gotten there first, early explorers were brave seekers of adventure, early explorers spread disease, but Columbus was an Italian desperate to raise money for his personal dreams and charmed the queen of Spain with tales of glory and gold.
 

Frankish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,424
USA
He's an absolute monster. About the holiday, as an Italian American I see first hand how viscerally my community reacts to any suggestion of getting rid of Columbus Day. They view it as a personal attack on them and an attempt to exclude them from America. This is why no politician wants to touch this.

That said, I think an artful push to eliminate and rebrand the holiday as Italian-American Day or Amerigo Vespucci Day would actually go over fine, and it's strange that it hasn't happened. There are hundreds of other Italian Americans to name a holiday after. I'm fact, it's harder to think of a worse monster to name an Italian American holiday after.

Maybe we need an Italian American president to do that. Either way the whitewashing needs to stop. I studied history in college and was blown away by how fucked up this guy was.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
I remember realizing how sick Columbus really was in Elementary school which was followed by learning Lewis and Clarke weren't shit. Fuck them.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,141
Sorry that you and yours still have to deal with that. I got to attend a Indigenous People's day celebration in place of it years ago so there's really no excuse for how little progress we've made on the issue.

I'm sure I shared this on here before but one of the first lessons that showed me adults could be complete shit was based on Columbus. In early elementary school when learning about the genocide a kid, obviously confused by the holiday despite all of this, aaked why we celebrate it. The teacher then guilt tripped the kid into thinking it was ok because "Well yes that was bad but just think if that hadn't happened your parents may not have met and you wouldn't be here." A wonderful way to stamp out a 7 year old's critical thinking and empathy.
 

BossDumDrum

Member
Jan 3, 2020
1,295
I remember growing up knowing little about Columbus other than that he was a hero, and we would sing dumb songs about him. Once I started to go more on the internet, the truth hit me like a truck.

Thankfully, no one in my family observes the accursed day, and I know many schools in my city refuse to either.
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,406
He represents white Europe's first landing in America. So I get why a lot of people like him.

But yea, fuck him.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,744
He represents white Europe's first landing in America. So I get why a lot of people like him.

But yea, fuck him.
Didn't actually get to America, he was too busy perpetuating genocide and rape in the Caribbean (even in that era what he did was considered horrifying, pretty sure he got arrested for it) and Vikings got to America far before
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,406
Didn't actually get to America, he was too busy perpetuating genocide and rape in the Caribbean (even in that era what he did was considered horrifying, pretty sure he got arrested for it) and Vikings got to America far before

I was reading about this a bit recently. Vikings basically came and left, right? Columbus represents the first settlement that would eventually populate the continent. Then there's John Cabot who was the first to touch down on the North American shoreline.

There's also some speculation on Chinese voyages that set down in North America hundreds (thousands?) of years earlier.
 

I am a Bird

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,242
I actually remember in grade school being taught the grade school fluffy happy Columbus then when I was in middle school I recall reading how much of a monster he was. I'm glad they are teaching the real Columbus and columbus day is being changed.

I am sorry to hear this happened to your ancestors That is not a man that should be celebrated. Columbus day is one of those things where I understand why it was made in the past. As it was created to show that Italians were just as American as everyone else and to try to stop people from lynching Italians and ease tensions with Italians and Italy as a whole. I just wish it didn't have to honor such a monstrous man.
 

RazorbackDB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
176
I remember doing drawings of la niña, la pinta y la santa maria in school, they definetly didn't touch in any of the atrocities. I imagine a lot of the cleaning of image for Columbus and the Spanish colonization here in Chile at least comes from the Cristian Church, they still have a grasp on public education even to this day.
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
When I was young, I remember how pop culture, commercials and the like kept spinning the tale of how Colombus proved the Earth was round in an age when people widely believed it was flat. Like he was an enlightened thinker ahead of his time. What complete rubbish. Christopher Columbus was just a very stupid man who got very lucky.

Back in the 15th century, people knew that the Earth was a sphere. Heck, they even had a pretty good idea of how big it was. They just didn't know that the Americas existed. That's why no one bothered trying to sail west across the Atlantic to reach China: they thought it would be a suicidal voyage. Colombus thought he knew better. In Columbus's head, the Earth was egg-shaped, with the Garden of Eden at the top of the egg and a much smaller circumference than what the Earth actually had. So based on his wild imaginings, Columbus was convinced that he could reach China by sailing west.

The man went to his grave convinced that he had indeed landed in China, despite all the evidence to the contrary. He was a foolish and stubborn person who was shockingly cruel. I can't think of any reason to give the man respect.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,055
I still remember that God-Awful Ridley Scott movie where he's portrayed as some kind of enlightened free-thinking humanist who only wants to befriend the natives and leave them be.

Basically, the complete opposite of what the man himself actually was.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
It's bizarre how this guy is somehow celebrated in the US, his considerable atrocities swept under the rug, or how his crimes went entirely unmentioned during my world history classes in school. I wonder if my teachers even knew.

His crimes against enslaved indigenous people were so severe that he was imprisoned for them back in the 15th century.
The only thing that's ever taught about him in schools is that he discovered America.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
In college, we had to read some of his personal diary he kept during his first visit to the Americas. He was an evil, evil man. His diary is to the effect of "holy shit these people are going to be so incredibly easy to wipe out and exploit." Like, without any attempts at hiding what he thought. He outright was drooling over the prospect of wiping these people out.

Example:

"Sunday, October 14


…These people are very simple as regards the u.se of arms, as your Highnesses will .sec from the seven that I caused to be taken, to bring home and learn our language and return; unless your Highnesses should order them all to be brought to Castile, or to be kept as captives on the same island; for with fifty men they can all be subjugated and made to do what is required of them…"
 

Ruisu

Banned
Aug 1, 2019
5,535
Brasil
It's bizarre how this guy is somehow celebrated in the US, his considerable atrocities swept under the rug, or how his crimes went entirely unmentioned during my world history classes in school. I wonder if my teachers even knew.

His crimes against enslaved indigenous people were so severe that he was imprisoned for them back in the 15th century.

If you think about how downplayed the atrocities done by the USA in general are, then that starts to make sense. If they're not an "enemy" then you don't need to really think too much about how they fucked over people.
 

Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,781
there was a prominent statue right of him outside my workplace. hundreds of people (maybe thousands?) would walk by it everyday. it was like 100 feet away from a very popular starbucks too, so lots of foot traffic. the city finally removed it a couple years ago. at first they covered it up with this giant steel box/cage thing in anticipation of vandalism for columbus day, but then they got rid of it altogether. good riddance. this is in LA too.
 

Murfield

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,425
I find it weird that people here are saying that having done horrible things associated with colonialism is normal for most countries. I mean there were those who colonised and there were those who were colonised.

I understand most people in this thread come from the former, but I think that this point of view is somewhat ignorant.

Perhaps I am picking up on wrong message and being unfair.
 
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zashga

Losing is fun
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,206
Growing up in middle America, I was taught that Columbus was a brave man who discovered that the earth was round. Prior knowledge of that fact (and the fact that other people at the time thought a sea voyage to India was impossible due to a correct understanding of the Earth's circumference) just weren't presented at all. All atrocities against the original Americans were downplayed as "lots of Indians died from disease, how sad."

American education was/is intentionally misleading. We apply the great man theory to all sorts of undeserving assholes; Columbus is just one of them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,139
Somewhere South
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Thanksgiving the same? Considering what they did to the native American's? That doesn't seem to be an issue or have as much controversy as far as I know?

Thanksgiving celebrations actually predate the colonization and can be traced back to pagan harvest celebrations in Europe, but yeah, they got a whole new coating of disgusting implications once imported here.

Seriously, if we as society had any amount of moral dignity, we should've dropped any kind of celebration related to the colonization of the Americas a long time ago. Colonists raped, enslaved, pillaged, destroyed and then murdered (either directly or through biological warfare) 98% of the people who were already here. There's nothing to celebrate, it's a whole fucking continent built on genocide.
 
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SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
Seriously, but indoctrinating children with whitewashed history is American to the core.

Fuck white supremacy; tear down all their monuments to mass murderers
Indeed.

It's bizarre how this guy is somehow celebrated in the US, his considerable atrocities swept under the rug, or how his crimes went entirely unmentioned during my world history classes in school. I wonder if my teachers even knew.

His crimes against enslaved indigenous people were so severe that he was imprisoned for them back in the 15th century.

Wow. What a shitbag Christopher Columbus is.
 

Squid Bunny

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 11, 2018
5,342
For all of our problems, I'm glad Brazil does not dedicate a holiday to the "discovery" of the country by Europeans. April 22nd normally goes unnoticed here, with a completely unrelated (and stupid in its own terms) holiday on the 21st.

Now, a question for Americans here at ERA: how much does pop culture and schools conflate Columbus discovering America (the continent) with discovering the United States (of America)? I remember an old cartoon that implied he arrived in what is currently New York, which is BS of course.

(Columbus also muses in the end of the film that he would like to have something named after him, mentioning Columbus Circle. Screenwriters forgot there is a whole country named after him)
 

Uhtred

Alt Account
Banned
May 4, 2020
1,340
I was surprised that my middle school is STILL named after the fucker. So disappointing.