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Deleted member 2172

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,577
People losing their minds because the next Kingdom Hearts game wont have a 4 at the end of its title.

It also apparently means it will be skippable because only numbered titles matter right??? This forum never learns.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I went back and watched DDD's cutscenes after starting the game and being confused to give myself more context, right around I finished Toy Story.

I still think KH3 is a very poorly told story. This is not trolling or anything, I spent $60 on launch day to play a game I was pretty excited about and was very disappointed. I still think it's insane you can be following a series regularly since 2003 and then have people tell you you aren't informed enough to give an opinion of a game.

You'd probably need to watch Back Cover too which came with 2.8 to understand as well.

But I mean if you had played DDD first then you would've known the type of story you were getting into for III.

It's really on you that you didn't even bother looking into it until you had III. Did you just think you could get away from skipping it and could directly into III?
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
My opinion on KH's storytelling has always been this:

If someone says the series is hard to get into, I say "Yea, fair."
If someone says that the series could've told its story better, I say "Yea, fair."
If someone says the story takes itself supremely seriously while being simultaneously either winged or half-planned with no enough details outlined to paint a confusing picture, I say "Yea, fair."
If someone asks if I don't enjoy the series I'm like "Naaah I fucking love it."

The series has issues. I find the way it does sidegames to be pretty dumb. I find the way it plots itself pretty dumb. I find the way it paces itself to be fucking dumb. Still enjoy my time with it though so, hey.

They aren't good movies either though.

The 358/2 movie is somewhat passable if you sort of fast forward through the first half or so.

The Re:Coded one is 2 and a half hours of torture and it hurts me that I had to watch that as I replayed the series with my fiancee :P

You'd probably need to watch Back Cover too which came with 2.8 to understand as well.

But I mean if you had played DDD first then you would've known the type of story you were getting into for III.

It's really on you that you didn't even bother looking into it until you had III. Did you just think you could get away from skipping it and could directly into III?

Back Cover honestly barely matters for 3. The very final scene and like one or two scenes make more sense if you watched it, but even if you hadn't you could infer it from context. Also it's just a painful to watch movie, it just wasn't very good outside of all the scenes with the MoM chewing the scenery. I'd generally advise people to skip it honestly, unless they are very invested in KH's plot.
 

Slacker247

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,063
Not at all surprised. If anything, I'll be surprised if the next immediate game isn't a Switch exclusive!

Some of these side games are like Gumm Ship moments. Shit you have to go through to get to the good stuff (where not all Ship moments are shit, like not all side games are shit).
 

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
Why would it be Switch exclusive? I mean they did have a reason why they brought all of the NDS/3DS games to PS3 and PS4.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
This is an absolutely ridiculous sentiment because it asserts that anybody who hasn't played the games prior has no right to make any comment other than a positive one lest it's 'trolling'. Kingdom Hearts 3 is, when push comes to shove, a Disney game, and there will be younger people who weren't even playing video games when KH1 and KH2 came out who might be tempted to pick it up because Big Hero Six or Tangled are in the advertising for it. This is the same fringe audience that made KH1 such a hit, incidentally - it wasn't just the FF audience buying it, but the FF audience combined with a demographic who never usually would buy this type of game, but did because Disney.

Anyway, telling that audience they need to play eight other games first is ridiculous, and if that's really the case, that's a failing. Even Mass Effect, a complicated narrative-driven series where your saves actively carry over, took massive steps each game to ensure newcomers wouldn't be alienated. There is no excuse. In this instance, it's totally possible to find a balance.

KH2 found that balance fairly well, I think, btw. The Roxas stuff in the opening is surprisingly deft, because it at once is feeding intriguing information to those who did play COM, while those who played KH1 but skipped it are left curious about what's going on and where Sora is - and finally, for newcomers, the Roxas section acts as a leisurely-paced tutorial, as Destiny Islands did. It has a triple purpose, it's very cleverly designed. KH3 just has no idea tho.
It's a fairly basic requirement that for you to critique a game you have to have played it. No one is saying you can't judge KH3 if you've played it, but not the others. But critiqueing the series as a whole when you've not played the games is embarassing.
Edit: dialled it back for being too snarky.
 
Last edited:

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
My opinion on KH's storytelling has always been this:

If someone says the series is hard to get into, I say "Yea, fair."
If someone says that the series could've told its story better, I say "Yea, fair."
If someone says the story takes itself supremely seriously while being simultaneously either winged or half-planned with no enough details outlined to paint a confusing picture, I say "Yea, fair."
If someone asks if I don't enjoy the series I'm like "Naaah I fucking love it."

The series has issues. I find the way it does sidegames to be pretty dumb. I find the way it plots itself pretty dumb. I find the way it paces itself to be fucking dumb. Still enjoy my time with it though so, hey.



The 358/2 movie is somewhat passable if you sort of fast forward through the first half or so.

The Re:Coded one is 2 and a half hours of torture and it hurts me that I had to watch that as I replayed the series with my fiancee :P



Back Cover honestly barely matters for 3. The very final scene and like one or two scenes make more sense if you watched it, but even if you hadn't you could infer it from context. Also it's just a painful to watch movie, it just wasn't very good outside of all the scenes with the MoM chewing the scenery. I'd generally advise people to skip it honestly, unless they are very invested in KH's plot.

It's only 50 minutes long and MoM is in half the movie so it's tolerable because of MoM.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
It's only 50 minutes long and MoM is in half the movie so it's tolerable because of MoM.

It's only 50 minutes? Man, my memories of the traitor talk totally made me feel like the movie was longer. Yeah just 50 minutes should be bearable with the MoM scenes, though being able to fast forward through some of the less interesting scenes would be a good option. Like some of those scenes are important but they tended to sort of repeat themselves like, a lot.
 

Lnds500

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,682
I just don't want it to be Switch exclusive. That would suck.

Although since PS5 is on the horizon I could see them doing a lower budget "handheld" game for the Switch as an excuse to avoid the PS5. Also, not too crazy about the possibility of going back to gimmicky gameplay. They should keep KH3's gameplay and evolve that.
 

Banzai

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,586
Just don't make it exclusive to some handheld or other singular platform and I'm cool with it.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,209
Singapore
It's only 50 minutes? Man, my memories of the traitor talk totally made me feel like the movie was longer. Yeah just 50 minutes should be bearable with the MoM scenes, though being able to fast forward through some of the less interesting scenes would be a good option. Like some of those scenes are important but they tended to sort of repeat themselves like, a lot.
The traitor was Nomura all along. He betrayed our expectations and wasted our time with that movie. Lmao.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
The traitor was Nomura all along. He betrayed our expectations and wasted our time with that movie. Lmao.
I don't know, I feel like characters repeating themselves and scenes feeling extremely sterile and devoid of emotion save for one or two scenes where the writing inexplicably seems to actually do its job making me question why the rest of the story doesn't try to do the same is about what I expect of Nomura and KH by now haha.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,726
England
It's a fairly basic requirement that for you to critique a game you have to have played it. No one is saying you can't judge KH3 if you've played it, but not the others. But critiqueing the series as a whole when you've not played the games is embarassing.
Edit: dialled it back for being too snarky.

The problem is - and this isn't specifically at you - I feel like when you get people who haven't played everything since KH2 laying out a criticism of KH3, so often the response comes back from the hardcore basically telling them to play the others or get fucked, and it's difficult to believe that people genuinely think that's an appropriate concept. But I've seen it so often and it does rub me the wrong way, thus my response to you.

Also, if somebody plays KH3, is overwhelmed by all the lore and says "this series isn't for me" over "oh, I should play the rest" I think that's totally a reasonable response, too. That's why any long-running franchise needs to be open and careful with onboarding, and KH3 is a disaster at it.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
The problem is - and this isn't specifically at you - I feel like when you get people who haven't played everything since KH2 laying out a criticism of KH3, so often the response comes back from the hardcore basically telling them to play the others or get fucked, and it's difficult to believe that people genuinely think that's an appropriate concept. But I've seen it so often and it does rub me the wrong way, thus my response to you.

Also, if somebody plays KH3, is overwhelmed by all the lore and says "this series isn't for me" over "oh, I should play the rest" I think that's totally a reasonable response, too. That's why any long-running franchise needs to be open and careful with onboarding, and KH3 is a disaster at it.
Okay so this I agree with. I've always felt that Kingdom Hearts games do a good job of laying out the story in a way that is easy for newcomers to get into. KH2 framed the missing story from COM through the eyes of a newcomer, BBS took things back to the start and DDD was a back to basics beginning. But KH3 doesn't, it's inpenetrable to newcomers. As I said before, criticising KH3 for not being newcomer friendly is totally fine. It should be it's job to make sure it makes sense to everyone, not just those who've played all the games.

But criticising the story of the series when you've only played a few entries is silly. You shouldn't expect to understand the whole story if you're not willing to play the game's. Fine criticise KH3, but arbitrarily saying "only KH1, 2 and 3 should count" and if the story doesn't make sense from me only playing those, then it's a trash story...well that's dumb.
 

faced

Member
Dec 17, 2017
177
You'd probably need to watch Back Cover too which came with 2.8 to understand as well.

But I mean if you had played DDD first then you would've known the type of story you were getting into for III.

It's really on you that you didn't even bother looking into it until you had III. Did you just think you could get away from skipping it and could directly into III?

Yes? What is this weird trend of blaming the user for not liking a game correctly? I've never seen this happen so often with another series. I wasn't disappointed because I did anything wrong, I was disappointed because I feel like, EVEN WITH THE CONTEXT OF EVERY OTHER GAME IN THE SERIES, this didn't live up to my expectations.

The combat was very fun, if you ignored Attractions breaking the flow (I just skipped over them with L2 whenever they popped up). Some of the Disney worlds were really well done and it was cool to run around them and get a bit of original story, some were not well done. Everything looked great. The soundtrack as always was great. The Voice Acting was GET UP ON THE HYDRA'S BACK levels of repetition.

The story is not good. I don't mean I was confused, or I didn't research it properly. I mean the cutscenes were BORING, and there were so many of them. It feels like they threw out the lesson storytelling games have learned over an entire generation, and they made a very pretty ps2 game.
 

Kazuhira

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,175
I wanted him to do a more straightforward narrative,i think it's a good starting point now that most plot points from every game prior to 3 are resolved,y'know work on kh4 then 5 and so on.
Maybe do dlcs for the main entries if he wants to expand on certain story elements.
The need to have a PSP, DS, 3DS, final mix versions etc is how i lost track of the franchise after 2FM and finally lost interest until like a year ago.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
I wanted him to do a more straightforward narrative,i think it's a good starting point now that most plot points from every game prior to 3 are resolved,y'know work on kh4 then 5 and so on.
Maybe do dlcs for the main entries if he wants to expand on certain story elements.
The need to have a PSP, DS, 3DS, final mix versions etc is how i lost track of the franchise after 2FM and finally lost interest until like a year ago.
Yeah no shit. It's 2019, I'm all caught up on KH and have watched at least three fully featured and comprehensive summary videos and I still don't know the difference between what KH Back Cover is and KH Union Cross. I thought both of them were the browser game but they are two games!
 

LAA

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,337
Okay so this I agree with. I've always felt that Kingdom Hearts games do a good job of laying out the story in a way that is easy for newcomers to get into. KH2 framed the missing story from COM through the eyes of a newcomer, BBS took things back to the start and DDD was a back to basics beginning. But KH3 doesn't, it's inpenetrable to newcomers. As I said before, criticising KH3 for not being newcomer friendly is totally fine. It should be it's job to make sure it makes sense to everyone, not just those who've played all the games.

But criticising the story of the series when you've only played a few entries is silly. You shouldn't expect to understand the whole story if you're not willing to play the game's. Fine criticise KH3, but arbitrarily saying "only KH1, 2 and 3 should count" and if the story doesn't make sense from me only playing those, then it's a trash story...well that's dumb.

Yeah agree, I don't understand why people should expect to be able to play a game in series missing a lot of entries out, in particular where the story matters (and even more in particular in KH3s case, one that is meant to conclude the story the arc has been building to), and be able to understand it.
I don't really see why it's a criticism either that it has to be accessible in that way either, you don't see people saying you can start watching from season 3 in a TV show and be able to understand everything for instance, I don't know why games are seen as that they should have that ability.
 

Somni

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
942
I understand this is a dream. But I'm going to say it anyway.

Kingdom Hearts: (Subtitle Here)

Exclusive to Switch. You play as Sora, along with Donald and Goofy. It plays similar to KH3/KH2 but instead of Disney worlds, Sora, Donald and Goofy visit Nintendo-themed worlds.

Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule, Zebes, Kanto, DK Island, Inkopolis, Lylat System.

Even an Animal Crossing world in place of 100 Acre Woods, filled with mini-games.

I need it so badly.
Even as a dream game, why make it a KH game at that point? It sounds like you're describing what would essentially be a new IP, with a similar premise.

I doubt Disney would approve striping out the Disney element.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,667
So are we expecting games where we play as the other characters, and then everything comes together and we play as Sora in Kingdom Hearts 4? Because something like that wouldn't surprise me.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,940
CT
Based upon the ending and epilogue of kh3

I assume the next game will be like DDD where we split time between Sora doing not TWEWY2 and Riku doing not FFvs13
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,401
Weird to see people expecting a Switch exclusive after KH 3D.

Doesn't make alit of sense - the game will def.be on PS4. They might develop it with Switch in mind since they probably also want a part of that market - doesn't have to be exclusive for that though.
 

Tiago Rodrigues

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 15, 2018
5,244
Why does everything have to be so complicated at Square-Enix since they announced FF XIII and Versus back in 2006?
I mean seriously...
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,782
Yeah no, you can't do that anymore. Not when development of each core title is taking 5+ years. Do what every other company in the world does, give the sequel (KH3D WAS KH3 as far as I'm concerned) a number, and stop being so damn pretentious.
 

bunkitz

Brave Little Spark
Moderator
Oct 28, 2017
13,524
I wasn't expecting Kingdom Hearts IV right after anyway, so I'm not surprised. Still, pretty neat to have it confirmed. I just hope they'll drop the different platform releases and make it easier to stay on track.

As for the other stuff revealed, I realized after beating the game that Sora's quote in the opening applies to him as well and not just the hearts they were trying to save, but having the tutorial apparently set after the events of the game kind of makes it all sorts of even more awesome? Even more so after I saw a tweet pointing out the possible Destiny Trio symbolism throughout the dive. So he's back in The Final World and he fully believes it's his fate to return home one day and I just really love that.
 

Deleted member 35631

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 8, 2017
1,139
Nah, My guess is that they will make a game for consoles about Union X. I don't know how many people actually play the mobile game, but Square Enix is no fool, and they know that they need to make a game for consoles for all the people that bought KH3 to catch up with Union X story. KH 3 sold incredibly well, they will not waste that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Yeah no, you can't do that anymore. Not when development of each core title is taking 5+ years. Do what every other company in the world does, give the sequel (KH3D WAS KH3 as far as I'm concerned) a number, and stop being so damn pretentious.
I just wonder if Kh is big enough to open a second studio. Like, it used to be back in the PS3 Days with the B team turning into the only team.
Not sure if HAND or Jupiter are still in the business of making these kinds of games.

Osaka making 3.5 for at least 3 years and then starting 4 would mean KH4 will again either miss the ps5 generation or come out super late.
 

Cudpug

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,557
I haven't played KH3 yet but I was under the impression it was the last in the trilogy and rounded off the entire series. Is this not true? Someone may have misguided me ;P
 

RPG_Fanatic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,641
Can't say I am surprised at this point, but I really don't see why the next entry can't just be called Kingdom Hearts 4 if all the games are important to the story anyway. Less confusion that way from casual fans.
 

KZXcellent

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
I haven't played KH3 yet but I was under the impression it was the last in the trilogy and rounded off the entire series. Is this not true? Someone may have misguided me ;P

It completes the current saga surrounding Organization XIII and Xehanort. It also concludes many plotlines. That said, it does set up stuff for the next big story arc.
 

oldboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,382
I have no interest whatsoever in what's in that goddamn box. Go to hell with your fucking mobile game virus.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
At least there are no more underpowered Gameboys and other devices they can put these titles out on now. If they skip the main stforms again it's not the end of the world.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
Even as a dream game, why make it a KH game at that point? It sounds like you're describing what would essentially be a new IP, with a similar premise.

Because the gameplay would be identical, the world layout would be identical and you'd be playing as Sora, Donald and Goofy. Certainly not a new IP.

I doubt Disney would approve striping out the Disney element.

It's so strange that a couple of you are arguing the logic of someone's idea that literally started with "I understand this is a dream." I blatantly stated it was unlikely.