I knew people who were murdered by the terrorist group this guy openly supports. I wish him pain, that's all. Nothing is wrong with me, I don't usually hate people.
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Free speech riots erupt in Spain after jailing of rapper who insulted monarchy and praised terrorism
- Thread starter FriskyCanuck
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Ok, don't advocate someone's rape. It's pretty simple, my guy. As cathartic as you THINK it is, you should keep it to yourself. No beef.
It's one thing to criticize the monrarhcy, its another thing to threaten to hurt people. People really need to understand that difference. This dude seems like a nut.
Where are you from?Ok, don't advocate someone's rape. It's pretty simple, my guy. As cathartic as you THINK it is, you should keep it to yourself. No beef.
Harlem… no, I'm not from Spain. I don't know why that's important. I don't fuck with Trump. He's likely and actual rapist. Im not out here advocating someone rape him in prison. It'a called maturity.
a) Can you make literally any point without quoting something else?
b) If you really think his quotes above are the same as Tip & Coll making Carrero Blanco jokes, I think there's no common ground for this conversation to continue anyway.
Mostly, how you've gone this long without being banned; but I feel your lucky streak is coming to a screeching end. :/
Maybe you haven't thought about it, but what you call "lucky strike" means I probably haven't done anything deserving a ban.
Edit: streak lol sorry
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Hmmm, are you sure about that?
Either way, it would definitely not hurt editing your post, if you acknowledge wishing rape on people is something we don't do out of respect for rape victims.
I'm Spanish and I agree 100% percent with you. The real problem in my view is that now we can jail people for an artistic expression here in Spain. Check similar cases like the one with 'La Insurgencia', or the raper Valtonyc (who is exiled in Belgium).
I don't listen to rap music, but I listen to a lot of Death Metal music. I know that some styles of music also have very agressive lyrics and out of context they can sound pretty bad. In those trials the act of an artistic expression is ignored and all is left are the lyrics out of context. I think this is very dangerous regarding freedom of speech as an artistic expression. This is common in countries like Iran or similar, not in Eurepean countries. So in my opinion, regardless of Pablo Hasel's ideas, this is not acceptable.
In the recent years have been some repression acts by the juridical power in Spain (like the imprisionment of the activists Jordi Sánchez and Jordi Cuixart) that have not been seen anywhere in European Union for years. That is worrisome.
I'm not quoting "something else". I'm quoting an expert stating that Spain has less freedom of speech today than in the 80's. And that we're the number one country in the world with imprisoned artists. That is not "something else", that is a fact.
Also,
El 'caso Hasél', rumbo a Estrasburgo con la jurisprudencia y la normativa europea como bazas a su favor.
- La directiva de la UE clave establece que el enaltecimiento debe llevar aparejada una conducta que implique un "riesgo" de comisión de actos terroristas
- En el caso de las injurias al rey, diversas sentencias del TEDH ya han sancionado a España por condenar por este delito.
El 'caso Hasél', rumbo a Estrasburgo con la jurisprudencia y la normativa europea como bazas a su favor
La directiva de la UE clave establece que el enaltecimiento debe llevar aparejada una conducta que implique un "riesgo" de comisión de actos terr
www.infolibre.es
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My mistake, I meant "someone else", not "something else". So, yes, unless you are that expert, you are, in fact, "quoting someone else". That's not conductive to any kind of discussion, other than looking for the biggest cherrypicked appeal to authority for your side. This is a message board, not a law court.
You said there's a difference between lyrics and threats, and I quoted actual threats from Hasél. Instead of addressing that, you then replied with a tweet of Joaquim Bosch saying there's less freedom now than back then and comparing Hasél's lyrics to Tip & Coll cracking jokes about Carrero Blanco. That's a complete non-sequitur to the discussion we were having; what does it have to do with whether Hasél's lyrics are threats? So I ask you again (you, not some "expert"); is that your point of view? Do you think Hasél's lyrics are the same to Tip & Coll's jokes and both should be treated equally?
You seem to be missing a lot of the things that I wrote and cherry picking whatever fits your point. Again:
La directiva de la UE clave establece que el enaltecimiento debe llevar aparejada una conducta que implique un "riesgo" de comisión de actos terroristas
Also, jokes against Carrero Blanco are ALSO considered glorifying terrorism today. Nothing happened in the 80's...but a few years ago:
El fiscal pide cárcel para una tuitera por sus chistes de Carrero Blanco
El fiscal pide cárcel para una tuitera por sus chistes de Carrero Blanco
Cassandra ha denunciado en su red social que el fiscal pide para ella "2 años y 6 meses de cárcel, más 3 años de libertad vigilada" por "humillación a las víctimas del terrorismo".
www.elespanol.com
And lets not forget that we live in a country were a famous actor in Spain had to stand before trial for cursing against god. That IS NOT normal. There's something very wrong with this country.
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This is why I hate the "free speech" defense, because most of the time the "free speech" defense ends up covering the real problem.
You seem to be missing a lot of things that I wrote and cherry picking whatever fits your point. Again:
La directiva de la UE clave establece que el enaltecimiento debe llevar aparejada una conducta que implique un "riesgo" de comisión de actos terroristas
Also, jokes against Carrero Blanco are ALSO considered glorifying terrorism. And nothing happened in the 80's... but it did just a few years ago:
El fiscal pide cárcel para una tuitera por sus chistes de Carrero Blanco
El fiscal pide cárcel para una tuitera por sus chistes de Carrero Blanco
Cassandra ha denunciado en su red social que el fiscal pide para ella "2 años y 6 meses de cárcel, más 3 años de libertad vigilada" por "humillación a las víctimas del terrorismo".
And lets not forget that we live in a country were a famous actor in Spain had to stand before trial for cursing against god. That IS NOT normal. There's something very wrong with this country.
I'm not contesting any of the above points. They are valid. I agree with them. Spain's freedom of speech is quite fucked up, legally speaking; I've adressed that in this very thread.
But none of this is what I asked you, directly, thrice now. I didn't ask you for someone else's opinion. I didn't ask you what the legal system considers. I'm asking what you think about his lyrics.
If you still won't answer that simple question without quoting someone else, I'll have to assume you aren't interested in any actual discussion, and simply peace out.
Oh, it's coming. FYI, I didn't report you, hoping you'd learn. I won't, but it seems you haven't…
Truly depends on "where" it happens. And speaking as a US citizen, we've had 1st amendment challenges in my lifetime that would threaten our liberties. Already said, but RIP Larry Flynt.
Edit: and I do concur, most free speech challenges in the US today are crap.
There are a lot of cultural differences yes, but I feel like it's a matter of nature in how people want to feel like they're the "good person" getting wronged. Like in the OP, they're trying to frame anti-monarchy sentiments as an attack on their free speech. And this comes off as incredibly disingenuous.
To much lesser extents, we have the Gina Carano crap where she's trying to hide behind free speech knowing full well that she was warned for her toxic speech. And people on YouTube/Social Media defending Trump being banned as the whole "free speech" and that "we shouldn't take away their right to their opinions."
IMO, this points to a single fundamental misunderstanding of what free speech actually entails.
Oh but I did, in one of my first posts: " There's a huge difference between song lyrics that don't pose a real terrorist threat, and an actual terrorist threat", which is what some experts in the European Union are saying.
And to be clear: I don't like Hasél and I don't like his lyrics, he's an idiot and a attention seeker, but I don't think he should be imprisoned.
Freedom of speech doesn't imply freedom from consequences!
So are you saying his lyrics, including the ones I quoted, are not an actual threat?
You just can't help yourself, can you. :D
So if someone decided to advocate via a song for Isis terrorists attacks saying the people in Las Ramblas deserve to be run over that should be freedom of expression? (unless that person is preparing to commit the attack themselves). I am asking this because Pablo Hasél hasn't been sentenced for the specific crime of Terrorist Threats as far I can tell. Related to this I am not sure if the death threats that he has been accused were in lyrics, Hasél says the same things in interviews/twitter as in his lyrics so the artistic expression shouldn't be a defence in this case.
I do agree that law should be reformed, crimes against the crown and religious believes should be removed and terrorism advocacy law should be clarified to avoid prision for bad taste jokes.
Exactly, they don't pose a real credible threat to anyone. According to Amnesty International: "It's a vague law that departs from the doctrine of the European Court of Human Rights regarding freedom of expression". Even The New York Times calls these laws in Spain a threat to democracy.
More here (can't help myself):
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So what you're saying is that they are, in fact, threats; just not "real or credible" ones. Am I reading that correctly?
That would be literally, and I mean literally, the exact same case as Hasél's threats, so I can't but assume mario_O would also agree that no action should be taken against that person.
BTW, this conversation is particularly interesting in light of Trump's famous insurgency-rousing tweets.
I'm trying as far as I can to explain it with my words. Here's a clearer explanation: "La directiva de la UE clave establece que el enaltecimiento debe llevar aparejada una conducta que implique un "riesgo" de comisión de actos terroristas".
For english Era: "The European Union directive states that terrorist glorification must also include a conduct that involves a 'risk' of committing terrorist acts."
So, therefore, you're saying that his lyrics never involved any risk of any terrorist acts being commited. Is that right?
The dude is a shit but going to jail because your third strike is making a fucking song about whatever is not normal and nobody can convince me otherwise.
The terrorism laws were a necessary evil during hard times, once ETA was gone so should have those laws. But of course our reactionary right world riot if we touch anything terrorism related, because, if they can't call the left terrorists what would they do? Politics? Nonsense, we can't have that.
The terrorism laws were a necessary evil during hard times, once ETA was gone so should have those laws. But of course our reactionary right world riot if we touch anything terrorism related, because, if they can't call the left terrorists what would they do? Politics? Nonsense, we can't have that.