Bah, popcorn flicks have always been and will always be cinema. Deal with it cinema snobs
Dont fuck with vampires...
Dont fuck with vampires...
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Francis Ford Coppola backs Scorsese in row over Marvel films
- Thread starter Yiazmat
- Start date
Like whatever. But if I was a director of a Marvel movie I might wonder how it got to this, lol.
the MCU die hards are the only ones bringing up "high art".
Martin and FFC don't class them as art. period.
Jules' story arch was exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote that response and that's true, but I found No Country for Old Men's theme's about the inevitability of death more thought provoking than the redemption theme in PF. However I enjoyed Pulp Fiction a lot more and think its a better movie still.
Maybe this comes down to how the story is told. Pulp Fiction treating it's deaths more cavalier (for lack of a better word) than No Country's deaths. I see something like Avengers treating themes (of any kind) more juvenile than the movies that Frances Ford makes i.e Godfather, etc.
I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with Scorsese or Coppola. The setting to Avengers is absurd next to something like Shutter Island. These directors who are known for creating very grounded movies.
Yes, I recall my grandmom saying stuff like "Those foreigners are coming to steal our jobs!" and we all just chuckled because saying anything would be ageist..
No, **** right off with that shit.
So Martin Scorsese and Coppola not liking Marvel movies is the same as your grandmother being a racist bigot. That is one impressive persecution complex you have - to be able to ignore actual bigotry (ageism) and make it about the 'intolerance' of Marvel joint.
One and Done (and I like Marvel Movies).
Boy that thread did deliver on ageism.
Which is an insult to all the people who work hard to bring these movies to life. Or are directors the only people who matter?
Do people who grew up in the 80s think slasher movies and dumb action movies like blood sport are cinema?
Wth are you even talking about? You wanna have a go for my calling out shit from people that ended up catching bans? Ok then... this thread is wild as hell
They objectively are cinema, so yeah, I'd imagine so.
Low brow cinema, but cinema none the less.
No, I actually saw her change her mind. But pretentious snobs on Era meeting criticism of people rightfully pointing out "Old Man Yells At Clouds" because that is what this is as ageism ?
FFC and Scorsese could have been best buddies with Polanski and as long as they dissed the MCU all the film snobs would go "Oooh, ahh...Excellent point!"
THe MCU; DCEU etc are popcorn entertianment. But they are movies, they are cinema. Sure they're not high art ask an art critic if he considers movies art. Or The decade long debate if games are art.
Art is very subjective.
There's a good documentary about that.
This shit is why MCU haters annoy me. You can't just dislike them, no you have to tell the world they're for STUPID PEOPLE!!
In an ideal world yeah, you should gain something from every movie. But let´s be honest. Why are we going to cinemas? Not because we want to learn something new and get enlightenment and all that , no we want to be entertainent and escape reality for a short periode of time. That´s the main reason why cinemas exists imo. Not every movie needs to be super deep and heavy like Schindler´s List. What I´ve read so far from those still respected and legendary filmmakers smells really like "Old man yells at cloud".
It's not particularly nice. His disgust really should be aimed at capitalism if anything.
Reminds me of when Quincy Jones had a tell all with Vulture last year. When you're that talented, rich and old... You just don't give a fuck anymore.
I'm not too fussed about elitism over something so pointless. And if it rustles some disney shills jimmies on the internet then all the better. I'm sure all the people working on those films aren't gonna lose sleep over this either. They usually see the MCU as an easy pay day.
i think a closer idea to the MCU could be Stephen King horror movies, which were kind of being churned out back in the day like they were on an assembly line, but now movies like Carrie and The Shining are viewed as Iconic classics... 🤔🤷♂️
Perhaps there are different levels of cinema (someone find me that chart) and MS and FFC just don't hold popcorn flicks to their specific views of what is cinema and that's fine.
I' m calling out your bullshit "Oooh it's ageism!" when it isn't. It's people being rightfully tired of legends of the business not getting all those pesky things young 'uns are liking.
And you know, that's fine. I don't get why people play Fortnite but I usually shut up about it. FFC and Scorsese are rightfully legends of their craft, but that does not mean they get to gatekeep and decide what is allowed in "their" club.
Like, criticize movies on their own merit. Say "Thor 2 is a really bad movie because of these very valid reasons". Don't go. "Aha lol no they're not even cinema. They're despicable!(why?) "
Overall, it's mostly me just hating how some people cling to words of others just because the other asshole is famous. And in this case it's perfectly obvious. "Ah yes I don't like these movies...And neither does this famous person!"
Okay, sure. Fine? Wasn't your own dislike of them enough? You need encouragement?
What an asinine statement. The only people who care about MCU are shills? And people who work on them dont care at all, what proof do you have for that at all?
Oh, absolutely. That is perfectly fine. However if they air their opinion, then it's open to criticism. I'm actually less annoyed at them for saying what they think than I am at the people clinging to their words like it's part of some divine word.
Sensible people won't care about FFCs elitism on comic book movies. Read.
I don't have proof.
Oh ffs I'm talking about the several, clear derogatory posts referring to their age that were deemed banworthy, that do nothingn but poison conversation on this topic. I have never once said people can't disagree nor am I trying to say all disagreement is because people are ageist , you're working yourself up over absolutely nothing.
..You know, maybe I am.
Sorry about that. I'll step away and cool my head, was a dumb idea to jump into a discussion like this.
Why are people acting like Scorsese shat on popcorn movies or - hell, even comic book movies? He specified Marvel movies.
Not sure if a sentiment like this has already been discussed, but I happened to stumble upon it and find it interesting. I'm thankful for A24, and for the fact that Fox Searchlight seems to have retained its freedom under Disney, and for Netflix backing something like Roma or The Irishman (and even then I couldn't see Roma in theatres and I really wanted to), but how long until movies like those become superhero-coded as well? Like, five years ago Inarittu expressed disgust over superhero movies and his Best Picture even articulated that. Now we have Joker winning the Golden Lion.
Well, I would say that neither of the comments have actually given any real explanation to what exactly makes Marvel moves a lesser form of the medium compared to other blockbusters. The Fast & The Furious movies seem like theme park rides to me as well. Jurassic Park is a movie about an actual theme park. lol
To be clear, I do agree with him that they are basically going for that type of 'theme park' experience but I just don't agree that we shouldn't consider it 'cinema' as it is obviously successful in setting out to create a specific emotional response from the audience.
Excellent take. And it's perfectly fine to disagree with this take and these directors. They are as entitled to their opinion on the matter as anyone, and certainly much more than most.Not sure if a sentiment like this has already been discussed, but I happened to stumble upon it and find it interesting. I'm thankful for A24, and for the fact that Fox Searchlight seems to have retained its freedom under Disney, and for Netflix backing something like Roma or The Irishman (and even then I couldn't see Roma in theatres and I really wanted to), but how long until movies like those become superhero-coded as well? Like, five years ago Inarittu expressed disgust over superhero movies and his Best Picture even articulated that. Now we have Joker winning the Golden Lion.
I'm not sure why people keep insisting that they are being taken to task for simply having a negative opinion of the movies. There's nothing wrong with not liking something. If Marty had said, " I think the MCU movies are really bad because X,Y & Z" the discussion would have came and went they same day.
The problem is they are undermining the crafts of the hundreds of artists that work on these films by suggesting the films aren't art. That's simply wrong. the production of an MCU movie, or any other movie for that matter, inherently involves cinematography -the art and science of filmmaking - regardless of how anyone feels about the quality or artistic value of final product. Any suggestion otherwise profoundly stupid, and shameful coming from legends. "Thrill" isn't any less an emotion than those high brow films aim for, so how is designing a movie to thrill audiences not art?
Neither discontent with the business side of churning out blockbusters nor discontent with the story justifies a creative saying these things about the work of other creatives. That's "despicable" .
The problem is they are undermining the crafts of the hundreds of artists that work on these films by suggesting the films aren't art. That's simply wrong. the production of an MCU movie, or any other movie for that matter, inherently involves cinematography -the art and science of filmmaking - regardless of how anyone feels about the quality or artistic value of final product. Any suggestion otherwise profoundly stupid, and shameful coming from legends. "Thrill" isn't any less an emotion than those high brow films aim for, so how is designing a movie to thrill audiences not art?
Neither discontent with the business side of churning out blockbusters nor discontent with the story justifies a creative saying these things about the work of other creatives. That's "despicable" .
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Well said. I didn't have as much of an issue with Scorsese's take to be honest, because he at least acknowledged that the productions are of high quality.
Coppola just comes off like an asshole though, considering he is straight up insulting the work of thousands of creatives in varying fields.
I agree with you, but how can you say those poison the conversation, when it's been toxic to begin with? The only reason this is even a thread is to have another battleground for the tired old Snobs vs. MCU-Fans battle.
I find it ironic that Coppola could praise Black Panther after Ryan Cooglar screened it early for him and then pivot to calling the whole genre "despicable" and lacking enlightenment, knowledge, and inspiration. It's also ironic that directors like Coppola and Scorsese are taking shots at genre filmmaking when they came from a generation of filmmakers that did genre filmmaking that previously wasn't taken serious as "art" and showed that it could bring with it both critical and commercial success. You would think that directors that were a part of the shift and that history in cinema and had to deal with the previous generation dismissing their subject matter that they would understand better.
It mostly sounds like elitist gatekeeping trying to keep Marvel specifically out of the conversation of genre films that changed the industry since they don't feel they should deserve the credit that comes with that.
On a related note, while obviously this comes from superhero and specifically Marvel's incredible run of box office success that creates bitterness and resentment in the changing industry since it begins to represent that change, whether it deserves it or not, I've always thought the emphasis of blame on the superhero genre and blockbusters was misplaced since we've had the blockbuster tentpole films holding up the industry for decades now and they were arguably filled with more empty entertainment than what we currently get consistently with the MCU. I think there is more blame to be placed on Hollywood's risk-adverse betting on franchises, adaptations, remakes, and reboots, which the superhero genre is certainly a part of, but that extends beyond blockbusters to even just lower budget comedies and other genres. The goal of the studios greenlighting them isn't to make art, but to reliably make money and a time when the industry is struggling to find ways to keep people actually going to the theater at all.
It mostly sounds like elitist gatekeeping trying to keep Marvel specifically out of the conversation of genre films that changed the industry since they don't feel they should deserve the credit that comes with that.
On a related note, while obviously this comes from superhero and specifically Marvel's incredible run of box office success that creates bitterness and resentment in the changing industry since it begins to represent that change, whether it deserves it or not, I've always thought the emphasis of blame on the superhero genre and blockbusters was misplaced since we've had the blockbuster tentpole films holding up the industry for decades now and they were arguably filled with more empty entertainment than what we currently get consistently with the MCU. I think there is more blame to be placed on Hollywood's risk-adverse betting on franchises, adaptations, remakes, and reboots, which the superhero genre is certainly a part of, but that extends beyond blockbusters to even just lower budget comedies and other genres. The goal of the studios greenlighting them isn't to make art, but to reliably make money and a time when the industry is struggling to find ways to keep people actually going to the theater at all.
Thankyou.gif
I've seen it many times and I never understood why that crap is tolerated here.
Also, what happened to "old people are wiser"?
Oh please go ahead and tell us how BvS is an exception of the movies Scorsese is criticizing lol.
Not sure that would be too telling for how he would think about comic book movies because both Coppola and Scorsese like Star Wars.
I suppose the argument would be that their opinion on Star Wars would count for less as they'd be biased considering George Lucas, as well as Spielberg, are all close friends.
But how much of that feeling is them just not embracing streaming. That is where the medium is heading, we getting more diverse types of experiences than ever before. Not having to go to studios should be seen as a boon