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Francis Ford Coppola backs Scorsese in row over Marvel films

Zac Dynamite

Zac Dynamite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
310
People like Coppola who says things like this and those here who agree are entitled their opinion, but they are also exhibiting the behavior that of an asshole by feeling the need to be shitty about it. That type of reckless negativity adds nothing to the discussion - especially since there are plenty of movies of all types being made today.
 
Lulu

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,908
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory commentary surrounding age
FUCK THESE OLD ASS GREATEST GENERATIONERS
 
TheXbox

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 29, 2017
6,583
Basically repeating myself from the first thread: the question of whether Marvel movies are "cinema" or not is purely an expression of anxiety. They are cinema - moving pictures - and these filmmakers are afraid to admit they operate in the same medium. I do this thing. You do that thing. Gatekeeping.

The fact that Scorsese and Coppola feel so alienated is more noteworthy than their actual criticism. Marvel fans don't care what they think and probably don't watch their movies. Marvel fans own Hollywood. That is the reality these directors are upset by and have chosen to distance themselves from.
 
MazeHaze

MazeHaze

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Nov 1, 2017
8,630
There's a part in endgame where I sniffled for like 10 minutes straight. The entire theater was sniffling, it was a sea of sniffles and watery eyes. Dunno how you can say people don't get anything out of these movies. This was like 2 weeks after it came out so it's not like it was die hard fanboys or anything.
 

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TheXbox said:
Basically repeating myself from the first thread: the question of whether Marvel movies are "cinema" or not is purely an expression of anxiety. They are cinema - moving pictures - and these filmmakers are afraid to admit they operate in the same medium. I do this thing. You do that thing. Gatekeeping.

The fact that Scorsese and Coppola feel so alienated is more noteworthy than their actual criticism. Marvel fans don't care what they think and probably don't watch their movies. Marvel fans own Hollywood. That is the reality these directors are upset by and have chosen to distance themselves from.
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where did it say Scorsese and Coppola feel alienated
 
19thCenturyFox

19thCenturyFox

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Oct 29, 2017
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What this translates to for me is:

"It takes me five years to find funding and distribution for my artsy movies, I have to fight studios and producers over every little detail and hardly anyone sees them yet Disney releases four shallow movies a year where blue and green alien peole shoot at space monsters and people flock to them."

I get why both of them are frustrated and Scorcese even has a point since he hasn't made a bunch of unwatchable turds like Coppola.
 
OutofMana

OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,115
California
TheXbox said:
Basically repeating myself from the first thread: the question of whether Marvel movies are "cinema" or not is purely an expression of anxiety. They are cinema - moving pictures - and these filmmakers are afraid to admit they operate in the same medium. I do this thing. You do that thing. Gatekeeping.

The fact that Scorsese and Coppola feel so alienated is more noteworthy than their actual criticism. Marvel fans don't care what they think and probably don't watch their movies. Marvel fans own Hollywood. That is the reality these directors are upset by and have chosen to distance themselves from.
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There's more to it than that I think. I'm pretty sure they all share the same sentiment towards Netflix. I remember Spielberg banging that drum. As did a few other old directors. Then he goes and does the whole Apple TV thing. I also remember doing tv shows was seen as a lower medium. Now, it's just as good as anything you see in the cinema.
 
NHarmonic.

NHarmonic.

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Agar25 said:
I will die on this hill. Why is open ageism permitted here? It toxicly poisons the discourse and adds absolutely nothing. I'm dipping out of this though since every thread on this topic as for some reason allowed such nonsense. Have fun with all your derogatory personal attacks because someone doesn't like your Comic movies.
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Soooo you're allowed to hate just because you're older? Damn should we allow transphobic or homophobic shit old people like to say?

What a dumb post.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,195
Era: He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct. And he is still in the studio directing films...


hanshen said:
Says the guy who just released a new cut of Apocalypse Now, for the second time.
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He made Apocalypse Now. He can release as many cuts as he'd like and every one will be better than the entirety of the MCU.

SSJDio said:
Man fuck that, those movies are old no one cares about them anymore. Those movies didn't even do as much as Ant-man did at the box office. This old ass jabroni boomer made Twixt, he's awful.
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/s

ryutaro's mama said:
And people can laugh at his lack of seeing the variety of content he is shitting on.
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They certainly can. I said it in the other thread, but the MCU is clearly cinema. Whether you think it's good cinema or not is an entirely different discussion. But they are cinema. Still we're talking about Scorsese and Coppola. They can say whatever they want, even if they are wrong.
 
TheXbox

TheXbox

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Flutter said:
where did it say Scorsese and Coppola feel alienated
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It didn't say it. I said it. It's an inference I made based on their vocabulary, which divides their movies and Marvel movies by suggesting the very medium they operate in is not the same. That seems like a defensive posture in the face of a changing landscape.
OutofMana said:
There's more to it than that I think. I'm pretty sure they all share the same sentiment towards Netflix. I remember Spielberg banging that drum. As did a few other old directors. Then he goes and does the whole Apple TV thing. I also remember doing tv shows was seen as a lower medium. Now, it's just as good as anything you see in the cinema.
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Probably yes, although I don't think Netflix is putting out anything like what these filmmakers have done in the past. That's why they're distributing their movies, right?
 
Rosebud

Rosebud

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Apr 16, 2018
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SSJDio said:
Man fuck that, those movies are old no one cares about them anymore. Those movies didn't even do as much as Ant-man did at the box office. This old ass jabroni boomer made Twixt, he's awful.
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This is not a box office contest. Maybe that's what they mean when they say "cinema".
 
midfalutin

midfalutin

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Oct 25, 2017
1,283
lunarworks said:
Birds of a feather.

Also, there's certainly a gap between "cinema" and "movies". Art and pulp. You can enjoy both.
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I don't think the distinction is high/low art because I can't see either of them arguing the Marvel movies make good pulp, either. The distinction with what constitutes "cinema" here is how ephemeral most Marvel movies are (a lot of them intentionally so!) compared to what a better movie tells you about the human condition (which pulp is perfectly capable of doing, and Scorsese in particular has certainly advocated for pulp in the past). Like, I think Black Panther has some valuable stuff about race in it but I don't extend that to the other films or believe that's a direct result of the Marvel formula so much as in spite of it. I don't really begrudge Scorsese or whoever for not getting all the way to movie number 18 in order to finally give a shit for 2 hours out of 40-50.
 
Artdayne

Artdayne

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Nov 7, 2017
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NHarmonic. said:
Soooo you're allowed to hate just because you're older? Damn should we allow transphobic or homophobic shit old people like to say?

What a dumb post.
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What? FFC saying he hates comic book movies is akin to him using hateful rhetoric towards trans people?

FFC is a god btw, he owned the 70s and that's often considered a golden age in cinema.
 
Darknight

Darknight

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OutofMana said:
There's more to it than that I think. I'm pretty sure they all share the same sentiment towards Netflix. I remember Spielberg banging that drum. As did a few other old directors. Then he goes and does the whole Apple TV thing. I also remember doing tv shows was seen as a lower medium. Now, it's just as good as anything you see in the cinema.
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Except Spielberg didn't do that. That was a click bait headline that misrepresented the situation for clicks.

 

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TheXbox said:
It didn't say it. I said it. It's an inference I made based on their vocabulary, which divides their movies and Marvel movies by suggesting the very medium they operate in is not the same. That seems like a defensive posture in the face of a changing landscape.
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that's the problem. When it's your opinion on how they feel, express it that it's only your opinion.

Like I can say for example, that you feel mad because some of the greatest directors aren't stanning your favorite franchise. That doesn't make it right. That's definitely not how you feel even if I could spin my way by making an inference of your post.
 
TheXbox

TheXbox

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Flutter said:
that's the problem. When it's your opinion on how they feel, express it that it's only your opinion.

Like I can say for example, that you feel mad because some of the greatest directors aren't stanning your favorite franchise. That doesn't make it right. That's definitely not how you feel even if I could spin my way by making an inference of your post.
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I think their words suggest they feel alienated. Does that make you feel better?
 
Beer Monkey

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Oct 30, 2017
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The ageism is troubling. I know plenty of film snobs in their 20s and 30s and I know people in their 70s who watch every MCU film.
 
UnpopularBlargh

UnpopularBlargh

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Oct 26, 2017
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Green Mario said:
In at least one alternate dimension, Johnny Depp plays Tony Stark.



Damn lmao, you're right tho

Also that quote in the article just gets to me.

"When Martin Scorsese says that the Marvel pictures are not cinema, he's right because we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration. "

Like come on, not everyone is going to the goddamn movie theater to be "enlightened". Sometimes I just wanna see a dude in tights kick an alien's ass or whatever.
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So you're agreeing with him? That's his point, no?
 
Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

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I think he's being overly harsh (I personally like the MCU) but I also think some of you are being incredibly dismissive of one of the most talented filmmakers of the 20th Century who is responding more to what the MCU represents in regards to a radically shifting film industry where risk aversion is the norm and franchises and shared universes is all the rage even while a company like Annapurna – one of the only studios making serious, arthouse films - is teetering on bankruptcy.

I'm currently finishing up Raging Bulls and Easy Riders and it elucidates an era when film was bold, courageous, provocative, socially relevant and often acted as an indictment of the failings of our society. This isn't just about cranky old men shaking their fists at the clouds, this is about visionaries who propelled this medium forward with some of the greatest cinema of all time and they are lamenting a society where confection – even tasty, well-made confection – has supplanted almost everything else.

And honestly, I don't blame them for being upset. Scorsese made one of the best reviewed films in recent memory and he had to go to fucking Netflix to get it produced and released.

Think about that for just a moment:

We are living in a world where most of us will be forced to watch the latest Scorsese film on a streaming service while Comic Book Film # 551 gets released on 4500 screens.

So yeah, I can understand why these guys are pissed.

I'm pissed for them.
 
Bisha Monkey

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Green Mario said:
In at least one alternate dimension, Johnny Depp plays Tony Stark.



Damn lmao, you're right tho

Also that quote in the article just gets to me.

"When Martin Scorsese says that the Marvel pictures are not cinema, he's right because we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration. "

Like come on, not everyone is going to the goddamn movie theater to be "enlightened". Sometimes I just wanna see a dude in tights kick an alien's ass or whatever.
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He never said it shouldn't exist or that he was exempt of producing those kind of films, he is just making the distinction between one and another, but I prefer the analogy Scorsese used, FFC just went out and trashed it altogether.
 
subpar spatula

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The MCU is the most valuable cinematic franchise in history, sells as butt load of merch, gets decent reviews, and makes the most at the box office. Why do folks really care what Capolla or Scorsese say?
 
TheXbox

TheXbox

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Flutter said:
I think it's best that everyone doesnt put words into someone else's mouth, so yes. We can argue about their definition of cinema without being dicks while at it.
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I don't think we're on the same wavelength and I'm not sure what you're upset by. I reread my post a couple times and I don't believe I misquoted either director.

I'm not arguing what cinema is either. They are. My whole point is that we should be paying attention to that. Why do they want to establish this boundary? Where do Scorsese and Coppola see themselves as filmmakers relative to the colossus that is Marvel? My contention is that they choose not to see themselves as creating the same art or working in the same medium because the "theme park" entertainment Marvel represents is a threat to the old guard and their style of filmmaking. For better or worse.

I don't choose to hedge every comment I make with "I think" just to assure everyone that I'm stating my opinion, but in case that's unclear, that's how I see it.
 
eyeball_kid

eyeball_kid

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Oct 25, 2017
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"...he's right because we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration."

I think when Coppola is saying this, I think what he means is that to him comic book movies aren't Art. I think people like Scorcese and Coppola aspire to make Art most of the time and that's what they equate "cinema" to, as opposed to a popcorn movie. That being said, I doubt these guys have even watched most of the Marvel films.
 
Cipherr

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MazeHaze said:
There's a part in endgame where I sniffled for like 10 minutes straight. The entire theater was sniffling, it was a sea of sniffles and watery eyes. Dunno how you can say people don't get anything out of these movies. This was like 2 weeks after it came out so it's not like it was die hard fanboys or anything.
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When people make these sort of statements, they aren't really interested in whether the shit coming out of their mouths is actually true or not. Im sure if you shared this with him he would just shrug and walk away. It's about taking a shot at something you don't like personally. Not truth.
 
Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

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ryutaro's mama said:
And people can laugh at his lack of seeing the variety of content he is shitting on.
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I adore the MCU but there's very little variety in what they are producing.

These films are (mostly) the very definition of formulaic with few exceptions and the franchise contains very little divergency within the established MCU template that began with Iron Man.
 
BossAttack

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NHarmonic. said:
Soooo you're allowed to hate just because you're older? Damn should we allow transphobic or homophobic shit old people like to say?
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Hey, man, you don't talk to the Francis Ford Coppola. You listen to him. The man's enlarged my mind. He's a poet-filmmaker in the classic sense. I mean sometimes he'll, uh, well, you'll say hello to him, right? And he'll just walk right by you, and he won't even notice you. And suddenly he'll grab you, and he'll throw you in a corner, and he'll say do you know that if is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you -- I mean I'm no, I can't -- I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's, he's a great man. I should have been a pair of mediocre Marvel films scuttling across cinema screens of forgettable scenes -- I mean...


hanshen said:
Of course it's better. It's like the Spec Ops the Line of cinema.
Personally I think redux is better than the new version and he should stop messing with it.
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I love Redux too.
 
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