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Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
This is pretty shocking since gaming did so well as a whole because of Covid. Well turns out it was mostly Switch in some markets I guess.
Is Sony's notion of clear console generations (that was backtracked, probably when they noticed yield issues /conspiracy) biting them in the butt now?

Gaming is software and hardware sales and PS4 was having record breaking software sales during the pandemic.

Also Sony has now officially sidelined Japan, US, France, Spain and the UK.

Haven't we known all year though that PS4 and X1 were leaving supply throughout the world? I know in the U.S. used PS4s were going for greater than MSRP during the summer. Points to a supply issue and not a demand one.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
It is surprising to hear how badly PS4 hardware did in 2020 since the pandemic drove huge interests in gaming, and the PS4 also had several big exclusives last year. Perhaps Sony thought it would be counterproductive to give PS4 a last minute shot in the arm with more supply and a price cut right before PS5, but with PS5 production in its current state I think they missed some opportunity here.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Wait really? I thought gaming companies were swimming in extra revenue during the pandemic due to more people gaming. Was this a software boost only for the big three?

I could have swore there were console stock shortages last year, especially for Switch (in the US).

A bit of both. Switch is going to have the biggest year for hardware sales since the DS days.

Demand didn't seem to boom as much for the PS4 and XBO which makes sense considering they are end of life but Sony/MS also kept supply tight. They could have done better numbers if they had supply.
 

Stacey

Banned
Feb 8, 2020
4,610
The world was practically shut down for almost an entire year, not surprising there were supply constraints. Doesn't matter how big the demand was.
 

dunkzilla

alt account
Banned
Dec 13, 2018
4,762
Wait really? I thought gaming companies were swimming in extra revenue during the pandemic due to more people gaming. Was this a software boost only for the big three?

I could have swore there were console stock shortages last year, especially for Switch (in the US).
Yeah it was mostly Switch on the hardware side. Software seemingly boomed everywhere though.

Don't forget that Switch isn't nearly as long on the tooth as PS4/Xbox too. Wouldn't be surprised if there were numerous people that held off on buying a console due to their replacements coming. Anecdotally, I know two people like that.
 

Cubo

Member
May 14, 2018
506
Yeah that was my doubt, I recall seeing the Spain numbers in your post on the PAL threads but for some reason I thought we also got the UK numbers before that so I was wondering.

Welfare and others gave a rough estimate of the UK numbers based on the percentages and some data Gamesinsdustry gave, that's maybe what you recall.

#1 NSW: ~1.45M
#2 PS5: ~430K (narrowly beat PS4)
#3 PS4: ~420K
#4 XBS: ~305K (Practically the same as XB1)
#5 XB1: ~300K

Despite outselling PS4 at launch week, PS5 falls behind PS4 YTD 2013, which sold either 530K or 580K.

XBS is also behind 2013 XB1 which sold 364K in initial reports and then the latest country by country report had it at 400K.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,354
Wait really? I thought gaming companies were swimming in extra revenue during the pandemic due to more people gaming. Was this a software boost only for the big three?

I could have swore there were console stock shortages last year, especially for Switch (in the US).

Sony is forecasting record revenue for the gaming division this FY on back of massive sw sales boost thanks to Covid (and second highest profit ever too depiste PS5 being launched at loss). Hw is just one part of the business. Sony benefited form Covid by having huge PS4 installbase and decent amount of people that had not touched their PS4s in years coming back to play it because of lockdowns.
 

tyfon

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,680
Norway
HW suffered from Supply Deal and Price cut.

But software and revenue wise they saw a massive growth WW and sold more than 60 mil SW in Q2



XphBNkG.png

Jeez, the PS3 really almost killed them.
What a turnaround the PS4 was.
 

VAD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,513
Not surprising, Nintendo made a killing with the lockdown with supposedly lots of casuals wanting Ring Fit and Animal Crossing, PS4 and Xbox are ancient, most people interested are either already equipped or are waiting for next gen. (Source: my ass).
Also shoutout to Oscar, you made it keupin, you're featured on ResetERA! Everyone support him by donating to his Patreon!
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
Yeah this is France so numbers are skewed, but it's worth pointing out that despite this being a transition year for both Sony and Microsoft, they've had hardware transition years before and COVID should have held sales earlier in the year.

Why the hardware numbers are low globally for Sony is a head scratcher.
 

Gnorman

Banned
Jan 14, 2018
2,945
considering how little stock there is of next gen consoles, i really think both companies could have handled the transition to next gen better with some bundles/price drops of last gen consoles.
Absolutely. Also the people that would have bought a heavily discounted ps4 are probably not going to be going to be buying a ps5 any time soon so it gets more people into the ecosystem.
 

Rick44-4

Member
Oct 8, 2020
1,319
ah yes. It's not like there was a pandemic that boosted hardware elsewhere, or that some of their most eagerly anticipated exclusives (FFVIIR, TLOU2, GoT) launched in 2020.
It can only boost hardware if the hardware actually exists lol, I think it's clear the pandemic disrupted manufacturing and sony didn't deem it worth it to try and force more ps4s on shelves.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
I mean, PS4 and Xbox One are at the end of their lifetime cycles, this seems pretty obvious to me. Also, PS5 and Xbox Series are nowhere to be seen and heavily supply-costrained, so they're not going to make the situation any better right now
Basically this. It reminds me of similar hot takes in the old place prior to PS4 and Xbox One launches saying that console gaming was dead because the PS3, X360 and Wii sales were so low, completely ignoring how much of a thing generation fatigue was.
 
Jan 4, 2018
8,616
According to the article:

PS4+PS5 compared to PS4 in 2019 : -15%
Xbox One + Xbox Series compared to Xbox One in 2019 : -2%
 

OnionPowder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,323
Orlando, FL
Wait really? I thought gaming companies were swimming in extra revenue during the pandemic due to more people gaming. Was this a software boost only for the big three?

I could have swore there were console stock shortages last year, especially for Switch (in the US).

There still is a console shortage for switch as far as I know. Amazon has it as first available in March. Walmart is selling switches for more than MSRP as well. Unless you want a switch lite.

The PS4 and XB1 didn't hit the same surge, but they also didn't have Animal Crossing.
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
I would imagine there would be a similar decline for any hardware manufacturer in the transitional year where new hardware is knocking on the door, no?

People tend to switch to a "I'll just wait for the new machine" mentality which sends current gen sales off a cliff. and then by the time the new hardware is out it's supply constrained which means sales are lower then they could be.

I mean, it's a consoles "final" year so saturation is going to be at its highest too so the potential buyers is already lower.

Like...consoles don't often sell like their second year by the time they reach their 6th and final.

Switch is still very much in its current generation though. The switch 2 is a long ways off. But once it's announced I see a similar drop off for original switch hardware as people hold off for the new shiny.

I guess Sony could have made some hyper cheap PS4 to try to drive sales further, (a PS4 slim 2 with a slide top disk tray 😂) but there might not be a huge amount of wiggle room for them to manufacture much cheaper while remaining profitable...And even if there were there's no guarantee people would care because of that impending next gen release.

I know personally I wouldn't have been buying a PS4 or PS4Pro in 2020. Nor would I have been buying an Xbox one S or X. And if Nintendo were releasing a switch pro at the end of 2020 I wouldn't be in the market for a switch or switch lite either.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,680
USA
I still hope we see a $199 PS4 back on shelves when the supply lines are back to normal. Not everybody has $400 for a new console.
 

regenhuber

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,201
Not surprising, Nintendo made a killing with the lockdown with supposedly lots of casuals wanting Ring Fit and Animal Crossing, PS4 and Xbox are ancient, most people interested are either already equipped or are waiting for next gen. (Source: my ass).

Think your ass might be on to something. Me and some of my friends sold their PS4s and Pros in the summer and made like 200-250€ back.

I honestly have no idea who paid 299€ or 399€ for a PS4 last year.
Especially since it only became apparent very very late in the year that the PS5 shortage would be THIS big.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
That was true for a long time but I think the US got the second place in terms of sheer volume
Source?
From NPD

Press Releases Archives

The NPD Group is a leading provider of consumer and retail information, insights, analytics and solutions. For more than 40 years, we have been the single source for reliable consumer behavior data that helps our clients make smart business decisions.
2019 had a total volume sales of around 7M

For France
16 600 105 for 2018
www.journaldujapon.com

[Bilan Manga 2018] Ventes en France : toujours plus haut ! - Manga

Avec 11.1% de progression en 2018, le manga est plus que jamais la locomotive du secteur de la BD. Chiffres et analyse d'un marché en très bonne forme.
GFK is the source still on this one
Evolution-ventes-marche-2018.jpg
 
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Fennec

Member
Jan 22, 2019
117
30 million households in France. Which means that 1 out of 5 french households has a PS4. That's huge !
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
Sony is really prioritising profits right now and thus not lowering the PS4s price. I guess they don't see the point of going lower when the chances of recouping HW loses from SW sales are low for very late adopters.
 

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,537
ah yes. It's not like there was a pandemic that boosted hardware elsewhere, or that some of their most eagerly anticipated exclusives (FFVIIR, TLOU2, GoT) launched in 2020.

Markets don't all behave the same way, and the most important part is the simple fact that PS4 worldwide has reached market saturation.
Sony clearly focused on the PS5 campaign/supply and didn't bother with PS4 supply or reducing the PS4 price in 2020.
At this point in time, you can launch as many exclusives as you wanna mention, but if you don't target new audiences (by, for example, price reduction to attract more casual consumers, this late in a console's lifecycle), the only people you're gonna sell to are the current owners and attract about a dozen more.
It's not rocket science, it's a well known pattern.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,025
Everyone I know either has a PS5 or waits for the PS5 because they had the PS4 for 4+ years already.
I'd bet my firstborne that Sony would have sold more PS5s in the 2 last months than the switch during the entirety of 2020 if they had the supply in France.
 

Stairouais

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,790
France
Source?
From NPD

Press Releases Archives

The NPD Group is a leading provider of consumer and retail information, insights, analytics and solutions. For more than 40 years, we have been the single source for reliable consumer behavior data that helps our clients make smart business decisions.
2019 had a total volume sales of around 7M

For France
16 600 105 for 2018
www.journaldujapon.com

[Bilan Manga 2018] Ventes en France : toujours plus haut ! - Manga

Avec 11.1% de progression en 2018, le manga est plus que jamais la locomotive du secteur de la BD. Chiffres et analyse d'un marché en très bonne forme.
GFK is the source still on this one
Evolution-ventes-marche-2018.jpg

Sorry, I think I've crossed my wires with Anime Cossumption and some article saying that the Us was the second biggest market (for Kodansha)

www.9emeart.fr

Les États-Unis deviennent le deuxième marché du manga devant la France chez Kodansha

L'image d'illustration est une photo du magasin Kinokuniya à Chicago La France a longtemps été décrite comme LE plus gros consommateur de mangas, juste après le Japon bien évidemment.
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
I remember reading once that France is the largest consumer of manga outside of Japan, but don't quote me of that


It's true. Fact of the matter is, if I remember correctly, back in the 90s and 00s, France was usually the quickest to translate and publish mangas/animes, way before Americans did. Like Sailor Moon for example, both the manga and the anime started being published/aired in France 2/3 years before the US.

Source: me, a French former weeb. Still kinda weeb at times though but don't let it be known even though I have tons of mangas on my shelves and forever will.
 
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tolkir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,252
Everyone I know either has a PS5 or waits for the PS5 because they had the PS4 for 4+ years already.
I'd bet my firstborne that Sony would have sold more PS5s in the 2 last months than the switch during the entirety of 2020 if they had the supply in France.

What? Switch sold last year better than best year of PS4. Last consoles that sold more in one year were Wii and DS.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,574
If they knew COVID was coming in their planning stages I'm confident they would have delayed new consoles by a year...
 

Rouk'

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,130
Source?
From NPD

Press Releases Archives

The NPD Group is a leading provider of consumer and retail information, insights, analytics and solutions. For more than 40 years, we have been the single source for reliable consumer behavior data that helps our clients make smart business decisions.
2019 had a total volume sales of around 7M

For France
16 600 105 for 2018
www.journaldujapon.com

[Bilan Manga 2018] Ventes en France : toujours plus haut ! - Manga

Avec 11.1% de progression en 2018, le manga est plus que jamais la locomotive du secteur de la BD. Chiffres et analyse d'un marché en très bonne forme.
GFK is the source still on this one
Evolution-ventes-marche-2018.jpg
2019 graph
Evolution-Manga.jpg


19 million volumes sold in 2019.
And 2020 should be way up too.
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
Everyone I know either has a PS5 or waits for the PS5 because they had the PS4 for 4+ years already.
I'd bet my firstborne that Sony would have sold more PS5s in the 2 last months than the switch during the entirety of 2020 if they had the supply in France.

Doubt it. Where are you getting this conclusion from? Your friends waiting for a PS5?
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,342
Everyone I know either has a PS5 or waits for the PS5 because they had the PS4 for 4+ years already.
I'd bet my firstborne that Sony would have sold more PS5s in the 2 last months than the switch during the entirety of 2020 if they had the supply in France.
You shouldnt bet on your firstborne for such banal things especially you are wrong xD Thinking a 500 dollar machine is outselling the best years of consoles like Wii/DS/Switch in 2 months.

There is online hype and bubbles....and there is reality.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
Sorry, I think I've crossed my wires with Anime Cossumption and some article saying that the Us was the second biggest market (for Kodansha)

www.9emeart.fr

Les États-Unis deviennent le deuxième marché du manga devant la France chez Kodansha

L'image d'illustration est une photo du magasin Kinokuniya à Chicago La France a longtemps été décrite comme LE plus gros consommateur de mangas, juste après le Japon bien évidemment.
That would make more sense.
It should be noted that even in the NPD article I shared, they did say that manga sales were booming.
The manga numbers are also really big compared to before.
Like the numbers were so bad that total comic book sales numbers were like a fraction of what manga sold in France.
Looking at old articles, it was like doom and gloom in the early 10s.
Like 2014 Nintendo doom&gloom.

Interestingly it's seems normal that the merchandising market in France is lower than in the US while the manga sales are not.
I mean goodies and stuffs weren't really pushed all that hard outside of few places.
From what I've been told though, the goodies market is booming like never before.
Old retro gaming stores are closing while anime merchandising stores are expanding.
Which again makes sense as publishers begin to provide good ways to access their back catalog and owning old games is less interesting outside of collecting.
On the other hand, goodies are evergreen as anime/gaming and Japanese culture get even more entrenched in the country (people who were kids when anime boom happened in the 80s/90s are now adults with money to spare) and since there's little stigma socially to participating in the manga culture (unlike the US for example).
That leads to more people wanting to get statues and stuffs while before they either didn't have the means or weren't that interested in that kind of stuffs.

And I mean it with the no stigma for anime in France.
If you watch anime and you're vocal about it you won't have the stigma of shutin otakus spouting nazis talking points.
You're just like anime.
2019 graph
Evolution-Manga.jpg


19 million volumes sold in 2019.
And 2020 should be way up too.
I left France in 2014 so that totally explains the 2014 dip but I do not explain the soaring since then.
Jokes aside, it's super interesting to see the market being that healthy.
Apparently they managed the competition with digital like a charm.
You shouldnt bet on your firstborne for such banal things especially you are wrong xD Thinking a 500 dollar machine is outselling the best years of consoles like Wii/DS/Switch in 2 months.

There is online hype and bubbles....and there is reality.
That doesn't even make sense when we're talking about 2020 for the Switch. PS5 would have needed to have some incredible exclusive and a lower price to manage this even in a launch year.
 

evilmonkey

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,481
Canada
It's true. Fact of the matter is, if I remember correctly, back in the 90s and 00s, France was usually the quickest to translate and publish mangas, way before Americans did. Like Sailor Moon for example, both the manga and the anime started being published/aired in France 2/3 years before the US.

Source: me, a French former weeb. Still kinda weeb at times though but don't let it be known even though I have tons of mangas on my shelves and forever will.
This was so much the case that many anime and manga releases in other European languages at the time were translated from the existing French versions and not directly from Japanese, because it was easier to translate that way. This lead to some pretty hilarious mistranslations sometimes. For example, Janemba from the Dragon Ball Z Fusion movie was called "Noquiero" in Spain because they (mis)translated it from French (Janemba -> "Je n'aime pas" -> "No quiero").
 

Deleted member 15360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,477
Game wont stay long at higher price

Recent Games had decent discount and a lot of games on PS4 were 50-90% Range
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,613
People tend to switch to a "I'll just wait for the new machine" mentality which sends current gen sales off a cliff. and then by the time the new hardware is out it's supply constrained which means sales are lower then they could be.

That's only true for enthusiasts, the ones willing to buy a new console at launch.

Nor would I have been buying an Xbox one S or X.

I bought a 1X in late September 2020! :P

Wait games are 80€ now?
It never clicked with me that upping to the 70$ pricetag meant 80€ per game.
We're gonna witness quite the contraction in game sales.

Yup, online retailers tend to go with 70€ though.

Current prices:

RE8 - 70€
Nioh Collection - between 70 and 80€
Returnal - between 63 and 80€ (which is quite surprising)

I'd bet my firstborne that Sony would have sold more PS5s in the 2 last months than the switch during the entirety of 2020 if they had the supply in France.

Poor firstborn... lmao

This lead to some pretty hilarious mistranslations sometimes. For example, Janemba from the Dragon Ball Z Fusion movie was called "Noquiero" in Spain because they (mis)translated it from French (Janemba -> "Je n'aime pas" -> "No quiero").

Holy shit, this is amazing! lmfao
 
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mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
Yup, online retailers tend to go with 70€ though.

Current prices:

RE8 - 70€
Nioh Collection - between 70 and 80€
Returnal - between 63 and 80€ (which is quite surprising)
Last I bought a game in France, twas probably a 3DS game and it was always better to get them from amazon because they were usually 10 bucks cheaper.
Make sense it's similar for the new gen.
It's been said a lot of times but it bear repeating, there's alot of people who won't bother buying that many games.
Wii really was a golden age, most games at 50€ brand new while everything else was at least 10 bucks more.