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Foundation (Apple TV+) - Jared Harris Goes to Space... Again [SEE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Spectromixer
- Start date
- OT
The acting and writing is getting really bad. The first episode showed a lot of promise, but it got pretty boring after that. Not even in the same league as The Expanse for me.
Oh I agree. It's just that the first season of the Expanse was super super rough imo and took forever for it to find the right tone. I hope this show can turn it around for future seasons
Personally I think the religious story line is about the one of the few things that make sense. The Space Pope, with 3 trillion followers, died and the competition for their successor is between someone who will tow the genetic dynasty's line and someone who is arguing they are something along the lines of soulless abominations. Day is trying to get the empires person on the throne, but so far at least it looks like he has been outplayed.
The only other story line I am following is Dawn understanding that terrible things might happen if Dusk, and possibly Day, learn he isn't a perfect clone. Everything about Terminus though is a giant cluster that seem overly convoluted.
Anything on terminus does exactly that. Terminate my interest. Everything about that story line is sloppy and all over the place. Luckily everything Empire related has been captivating. Also I used to like the actress playing Salvor Hardin, but in small chunks. Her acting is pretty bad upon further watching. Very one note. Also with it being too multithreaded I feel nothing for the people on terminus. At all. They could be nuked from orbit and I'd shrug my shoulders. My wife likes it, so we'll continue to watch, but if there isn't some escalation that really advances the story line I'm going to basically hate watch it.
I'm still enjoying The main problem I have with this is Terminus, I'm generally interested in the Empire storylines and Gaal is also ok when she is on screen, more interesting than the new live action Star Treks anyway. Comparison to the Expanse isn't particularly fair, since that is better than most recent space operas. I agree that they messed up on the Salvor casting.
This show should have been called Empire and just be about the Empire. If we ignore Terminus, this was a very strong episode. Even with Terminus it still good.
Also, it's incredible how the empire built a massive warship capable of jumping through the galaxy, destroy worlds and keep its commander alive even if basically nothing of the ship survived destruction. But it can't protect itself from a goddamn car sized AA gun.
WHAT THE FUCK.
Also, it's incredible how the empire built a massive warship capable of jumping through the galaxy, destroy worlds and keep its commander alive even if basically nothing of the ship survived destruction. But it can't protect itself from a goddamn car sized AA gun.
WHAT THE FUCK.
Writing, I'll give you. Action... I'm torn. But acting?
I love The Expanse, but season one's Steven Strait is cardboard.
probably. they believe themselves the height of power, it's hubris, and they've stagnated
My conclusion from this show is that they should stay away from action...
See game of thrones season 1/2 for reference of what to do. You don't have to show all the battle scenes.
True, but at least Steven doesn't try to do what he can't do, so it's inoffensive at worst. I wish could say the same about Salvor in last foundation episode.
The brief raid the Imperials forces did on that scientist's lab was really well done I was thinking we would get some more like that but good lord, it has been terrible
I'm with most of you guys. Empire stuff is good, terminus is boring as fuck and nonsensical at times.
Still overall my second favorite sci-fi show on right now after the expanse.
I wish we had more sci-fi like these two shows.
I started watching invasion and man its pretty crap so far. And the less said about current trek the better.
Still overall my second favorite sci-fi show on right now after the expanse.
I wish we had more sci-fi like these two shows.
I started watching invasion and man its pretty crap so far. And the less said about current trek the better.
The way he's talking about it makes it sound like a massive space engineering project, however yes 3 trillion is a lot of tithes.
watch Another Life on Netflix, its almost like a Star Trek TNG parody but everyone is 100% totally self serious. Season 1 is MST3K levels goofy as fuck but hilarious in a bad way, season 2 is really all out insanity 1950s pulp. Its a fun show and doesn't pretend to be anything other than crazy "LETS GET OUT INTO SPACE AND BLOW SHIT UP".
I also watched Invasion, its so boring. I'll watch Discovery season 4, coming soon, but it might as well be a different IP. I have to catch up on Orville, really enjoyed season 1. My favorites of the last few years are The Expanse, of course, but also For All Mankind on Apple TV+.
and yeah I wanted Foundation to be good, and I like parts of it, but I'm struggling with whether what I wanted isn't on screen and that isn't the shows fault, or if the show is not very good and I am making excuses for it. Might be better just to wait for the remaining 4 episodes to drop and binge em all than watch week to week and suffer disappointment.
Another Life knows it is stupid fun with idiotic characters, they even self-reference it 10 minutes into the second season when the new woken-up crewmember asks why they woke up that specific crew first and not the dozen other more qualified crew-members in cryo sleep.
Season 2 is worlds better than Season 1 if you know what you are getting into.
Lol just hopped back on netflix, I actually finished last season, had to scrub through random bits to refresh my memory. I guess I'll watch s2, wait for the last season of Lost in Space, and stick with the whole season of both Foundation, and Invasion.
The technology is so weird and inconsistent in this show.
Some Imperium ship jumped from somewhere else in the galaxy in a matter of days…weeks? The ship itself is able to do a planetary scan of Terminus and see practically everything. Except for *a fucking anti air cannon that is hot and loaded pointed at them since they've arrived*. Lol ok. Then the dumbass captain of that empire ship uses the ships megaphone to try and get Anachreons to stop killing Civvies. Lol, a fucking megaphone? Ok. Cool tech bro. And it doesn't help that the captain of the empire ship looks like a dad on his way to Chili's and forgot to take off his garage made space suit he uses for Halloween parties.
That young teen Empire jumps off a huge building and his force field saves him. I can't think of a time a "hard sci-fi" used force fields like this. Aren't his insides blood-fucking-pudding right now?
look at all the guns and lasers on terminus. They all look so cheap and unbelievable. And they seem like they shoot staples at people at mildly high speeds.
Salvor what an interesting character./s Love how when the empire dude is like "does anyone here know what the fuck is going on" and it takes salvor 5 minutes to go "hey I'm the warden of terminus". …………..
Her dad gave a real sweet origin story before he dies. I don't think anyone saw that coming. The acting coming from the people on Terminus is comical. Especially from Salvor. Those crocodile tears after her dad died was legit some of the worst acting I've seen in such a big budget project. Sofia Coppola levels.
There needs to be studies on. How can Lee Pace be so god damn charismatic as to carry such a boring piece of shit like this? This show is such a waste of time. Ugh.
Some Imperium ship jumped from somewhere else in the galaxy in a matter of days…weeks? The ship itself is able to do a planetary scan of Terminus and see practically everything. Except for *a fucking anti air cannon that is hot and loaded pointed at them since they've arrived*. Lol ok. Then the dumbass captain of that empire ship uses the ships megaphone to try and get Anachreons to stop killing Civvies. Lol, a fucking megaphone? Ok. Cool tech bro. And it doesn't help that the captain of the empire ship looks like a dad on his way to Chili's and forgot to take off his garage made space suit he uses for Halloween parties.
That young teen Empire jumps off a huge building and his force field saves him. I can't think of a time a "hard sci-fi" used force fields like this. Aren't his insides blood-fucking-pudding right now?
look at all the guns and lasers on terminus. They all look so cheap and unbelievable. And they seem like they shoot staples at people at mildly high speeds.
Salvor what an interesting character./s Love how when the empire dude is like "does anyone here know what the fuck is going on" and it takes salvor 5 minutes to go "hey I'm the warden of terminus". …………..
Her dad gave a real sweet origin story before he dies. I don't think anyone saw that coming. The acting coming from the people on Terminus is comical. Especially from Salvor. Those crocodile tears after her dad died was legit some of the worst acting I've seen in such a big budget project. Sofia Coppola levels.
There needs to be studies on. How can Lee Pace be so god damn charismatic as to carry such a boring piece of shit like this? This show is such a waste of time. Ugh.
if youre not grabbed by the first 3, it only kind of stays middling or gets a little worse
im personally still interested. despite all of the stupidity, the empire stuff intrigues me. the terminus stuff is just filler for now.
Hahah, very funny, and dammit you're probably right.
I'm in two minds. I'm soldiering through this with the creeping feeling I might hate it. But it's so conflicting. I's such a disjointed mixed bag.
I generally like Jarden Harris in all things (the space laundry speech lost me though), Gaal is pretty charismatic and likeable, Lee Pace is so good and I love the clever clone dynasty thing they did to span the shows timeline. There are good things in this show.
But Salvor Hardin sucks, not sure if bad actor or just wildly, wildly miscast. I dunno how that character is supposed to pivot into being a political mastermind. Terminus is so boring and goofy at times, and in general there are just too many silly plot holes and uninspired or nonsensical things happening.
And for all it's budget and occasional spectacle (the space elevator collapsing), a lot of the time this show just feels surprisingly small and basic. Where are the establishing shots? Where is the cool science fiction stuff? Why did the damn Buzz Lightyear trailer have more sci-fi wonder, spectacle and scale than almost everything I've seen from Foundation in 6 episodes?
I saw Dune yesterday, which probably doesn't have a wildly different budget, and it just oozed class and scale in comparison. It made me dislike Foundation more.
saw the first 5 episodes...
well, it's a well directed series, wih interesting writing, nice acting a high production values. It's also so far removed from the source material that might as well be an original story that just happens to share some of the novels names.
I'd say it's a good series but a miserable adaptation - and that was clear from the first shots!
In the novels it's a damn plot point that
Salvor turned from witty, won't hurta fly type to your usual sci-fi action individual?
well, it's a well directed series, wih interesting writing, nice acting a high production values. It's also so far removed from the source material that might as well be an original story that just happens to share some of the novels names.
I'd say it's a good series but a miserable adaptation - and that was clear from the first shots!
two HUGE moons on Terminus?
only the lost Earth had a big moon out of all habitable planets in the galaxy
The emperor should be unaware of Demerzel's nature
well, seems like they're mixing it up with some Second Foundation character
Demerzel guiding the Cleon clones to death it's too hard of a 1st Law breach to be
Yeah...whatever else this show is...it ain't Foundation in anything but perhaps setting...and even that is stretched by quite a bit. The characters and overall worldbuilding are quite different, and it seems the plot, too. Really disappointed they used the Foundation name for this, because it means we now won't get a real Foundation adaptation.
So when it fired at them it was entirely visible to us, but for some reason not to them? Or were we 'inside the cloak' at that point? And didn't they have more than one cannon anyway? Oh well, least of this show's issues.
I don't think they actually show the cloak working from the ground level, like from Salvor's point of view. I think she and Hugo only saw them setting it up, and it's why she made asked Hugo why they were doing it if they knew it was already there.
I'll assume they only had/needed one because the whole area is for the most part flat, so they have a huge range of fire. And it's a fairly large ship they're shooting at too.
The dubious cloaking technology is not even the problem here.
It is:
- the Empire not anticipating an AA gun in the first place
- The Anacreons, who are basically low-tech barbarians, having an AA gun that is able to one-shot an Empire battleship, or having cloaking tech
- no-one telling the Empire that there is a cloaked AA gun
- The AA gun could never penetrate the towns shield (according to Salvor) but had no problem one-shotting a state-of-the-art Battleship
I just dont get why the Wardens first course of action upon seeing them cloak an AA cannon wasn't to broadcast to everyone that "Hey, these guys just setup an active cloaking on an AA Cannon to the south of the base. And then also relayed that to said ship once they realized backup was arriving.
I get that they needed the ship to blow up, but I feel like they could have still done that while having the supposedly rational characters not behave rationally. Like I would be perfectly fine if the first AA Cannon was a decoy meant to draw attention once reported, and there was a secondary one in a separate location ready to hit once the ships guard was lowered.
this one has been getting to me a bit. i would guess that over time, that knowledge gets lost? but then there's the rest of the lore for them.
i guess thats a question for several season down the line
=== *edit*
just finished this weeks. got some thoughts in comparison to the books.
i'm digging this mainframe version of Hari as a way to continue on. of note, he specified that Gaal was to lead the First Foundation, so they're already planting some seeds for the future, especially given how it ended.
Demerzal still feels like a weird change, but i can see how their actions follow the Laws still. the episode two scene with the lab raid still feels like an outlier to a degree regarding inaction, but Zeroth supersedes.
overall, i would still say good.
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The gulf in acting ability between the leads in each plot thread (terminus and empire) is just too distracting, which could be an advantage for the terminus side of the story because it could use a distracted audience that can't notice how awful everything about it is. That adaptation must be the most puzzling thing I've ever seen, the only halfway compelling thing about it has nothing at all to do with the original works of Asimov.
You people are lucky my keyboard is messed up because I would rant for days about that travesty of a show.
Edit:
Got around to reading the credits of Goyer the co creator of the show on wikipedia... How weird that adapting a massive work of fiction isn't the same as putting batman or blade on screen. Who thought he was a good choice?
God damn it they even managed to make Bear McCreary produce a mediocre theme.
You people are lucky my keyboard is messed up because I would rant for days about that travesty of a show.
Edit:
Got around to reading the credits of Goyer the co creator of the show on wikipedia... How weird that adapting a massive work of fiction isn't the same as putting batman or blade on screen. Who thought he was a good choice?
God damn it they even managed to make Bear McCreary produce a mediocre theme.
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I'm going to avoid this thread because I'm actually enjoying the show.
yes I've read the books twice. I don't think that a TV adaptation should stick to a series that was written as disjointed parts over decades.
most people in here sound the same way I do when I rant on about and fucking hate blade runner 2049, and am somehow constantly confronted by people that think it's a triumph of cinema.
yes I've read the books twice. I don't think that a TV adaptation should stick to a series that was written as disjointed parts over decades.
most people in here sound the same way I do when I rant on about and fucking hate blade runner 2049, and am somehow constantly confronted by people that think it's a triumph of cinema.
yeah i have to agree, the acting is the biggest issue with this show for me too. back in the thread with first episode i also made the observation that something felt off with the show, either the acting/delivery of lines/etc or how the dialogue was written. But after all these episodes now I lean towards the bad acting being the issue
all of the budget of this show was spent on production/effects and almost nothing on casting. impressive they managed to pull Jared Harris somehow
I totally understand (and love) that new ambitious shows want to use new faces, but usually there should be acting talent to back that up
The Terminus stuff is pretty dumb the way they're doing it but the acting makes these scenes unwatchable. I find myself going on my phone or the SO and me talking instead to pass the scenes
all of the budget of this show was spent on production/effects and almost nothing on casting. impressive they managed to pull Jared Harris somehow
I totally understand (and love) that new ambitious shows want to use new faces, but usually there should be acting talent to back that up
The Terminus stuff is pretty dumb the way they're doing it but the acting makes these scenes unwatchable. I find myself going on my phone or the SO and me talking instead to pass the scenes
People are unhappy for generally sound reasons namely it's an atrocious adaptation that dishonours the spirit of the text. I don't really see what that has to do with BR2049 which is an original work and can be liked or disliked on its own merits.
Glad your enjoying it. Someone has to I suppose.
Actually thats how I feel about BR2049, which is obviously not it's own standalone work or it wouldnt be named 'blade runner 2… 049'
but i suppose someone has to like it.
I thought this episode was better (Terminus stuff aside because none of that is working for me) but it made me even more confused as to why they showed what Hari did last week, why not just put it in this one?
I laughed out loud at the exposition at the end as well.
I don't hate the show like some of you seem to, I just think bits of it are just not very good, I'll keep watching just to see how they handle the rest of the story.
I laughed out loud at the exposition at the end as well.
I don't hate the show like some of you seem to, I just think bits of it are just not very good, I'll keep watching just to see how they handle the rest of the story.
It feels like the amount of content they have for each story thread doesn't quite add up to the time they're building out episodes for in this structure. Things stop and start in weird ways.
I wonder if it wouldn't have been better served having a big re-edit with whole episodes focused on the Terminus/Empire/Gaal threads individually and then toward the end of the season blending and cross-cutting between them when they inevitably come together. We'd also get less qualitative leaps between them as it goes from the good Empire stuff to the bad Terminus stuff several times in an episode.
Must of missed that Philip K. Dick short story. Enjoy your two seasons.