-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Fornite skin based off an artist's design (UPDATE: It was actually a fake stunt by the artist)
- Thread starter Deleted member 1273
- Start date
- Status
Seriously though, shouldn't the kid (or their parents) be worried about legal action from Epic? "It's just a prank, bro!" probably won't fly when Epic had a ton of negative press generated by articles from Forbes and the like.
Yeah, it would probably just generate even more bad press for Epic but... you never know I guess.
Last edited:
It's possible to post about something without frothing at the mouth with anger and rage from the get-go. Followed up with some "I know the truth" certainty and often with an added dollop on top that anyone who says "Could it be X?" is either dogpiled or probably reported to the mods once the certainty narrative is set.
But more importantly, when something isn't what you were certain it was, you should apologize to anyone you either railed on with aggression or the mods should go back and look at anyone they might have banned early if their posts were reasonable and not trolling.
The behaviour in this topic often spills over to every other topic of a similar nature. That's the main issue. Say it's just "internet behaviour" if you'd like, but it's certainly been a reputation this community has had at times since NeoGAF. Going as far sometimes to even celebrate banning/dogpiling as many people as possible in topics that could have some discussion other than a "mob" telling everyone they better believe X, even when there is reasonable doubt, or else.
It will keep happening as long as people do not self-reflect and allow themselves not to be so damn angry and confrontational the second they get behind a keyboard. Be an individual as much as possible, not looking for an in-group to be part of. It'll avoid you not using your brain at times.
Of course, it's okay to discuss something pre-investigation or whilst some facts aren't known, but be aware of that, and watch your own behaviour when it comes to being aggressive/certain/confrontational/etc. This isn't high-school debate class, it's often situations where real people can get mobbed on/harassed.
Last edited:
I propose behaving intellectually and like an adult (and if you literally aren't adult, I don't think you're supposed to have an Era account, right?) You don't hang people before knowing if they did anything wrong.
Plagiarism is an extremely serious, career ending crime. Most artists working in the industry -- Honestly, virtually all of them -- Are true professionals and take this shit *extremely* seriously. It would basically require you be a psychopath to achieve a station as an artist in the AAA industry and decide to plagiarize.
How about don't say "fuck you epic" (the internet equivalent of a hanging, especially when a whole crowd is doing it and seeding it) when there's no evidence or corroboration. Just don't do it at all.
Reading through this thread, including page 1, I see a lot of negative kneejerk responses - some more reasonable than others, some more vitriolic than others - and some more skeptical, even defensive responses. I don't see an echo chamber, a hate-fueled mob moving to attack a specific individual, or whatever else.
Either way, clearly this thread is lesson #192931928 that people should take a moment before coming to conclusions. The orgy of schadenfreude has become just a touch ridiculous, though. I mean, after a certain point, don't the "Era sucks" posts take on this...ironic air? Putting aside that some seem to have adopted the very behavior they're criticizing, some of you seem to have convinced yourselves that the choir you're preaching to exists in a pocket dimension away from the rest of the forum. :P
I also love the "sigh, they still won't learn their lesson" posts. I mean...no, chances are the internet isn't going to get beyond that whole thing where people having loud kneejerk responses frequently has a disproportionate influence on the flow of discussion. Like, that exact dynamic is playing out right now, in the context of pretending we hate that dynamic.
Either way, clearly this thread is lesson #192931928 that people should take a moment before coming to conclusions. The orgy of schadenfreude has become just a touch ridiculous, though. I mean, after a certain point, don't the "Era sucks" posts take on this...ironic air? Putting aside that some seem to have adopted the very behavior they're criticizing, some of you seem to have convinced yourselves that the choir you're preaching to exists in a pocket dimension away from the rest of the forum. :P
I also love the "sigh, they still won't learn their lesson" posts. I mean...no, chances are the internet isn't going to get beyond that whole thing where people having loud kneejerk responses frequently has a disproportionate influence on the flow of discussion. Like, that exact dynamic is playing out right now, in the context of pretending we hate that dynamic.
Gotta get that hot take in. Plus no likes to admit that they're *shock* wrong
The lesson to be learned here is that you really don't need to jump at the first Epic-adjacent person you can come across to shit on the company.
There are other reasons to shit on Epic
There are other reasons to shit on Epic
This thread is now ruining the risk of becoming a bit of a parody of itself...
Many people didn't know that Deviant Art edits were not shown. Sites like this, in my experience, ALWAYS show the fact a sub has been edited. And it's bizarre that DA doesn't. So the initial evidence DID seem damning, and Epic have been shady with taking dance moves without credit, so I can't blame early responses. And it's not like there was 0 evidence to base stuff on, or that every response in the first few pages was vitriolic.
When it became apparent that Deviant Art's system was awful, and when Razor Mom entered the thread to let us know this was their friend, that's when people should have taken note and at THAT point the real issues in the thread began:
People piling on Razor mum (myself included, ashamed of that fully)
People not reading the update about Deviant Art's system being easy to game and still dropping their takes
THIS is the part of the thread we really need to look at. Let's not let the thread turn into a reverse version of itself and start piling in acting all high and mighty like there was 0 reason for some of the initial responses, but let's call out all the shit behaviors from the parts of the thread where people really should have taken note (myself included).
Many people didn't know that Deviant Art edits were not shown. Sites like this, in my experience, ALWAYS show the fact a sub has been edited. And it's bizarre that DA doesn't. So the initial evidence DID seem damning, and Epic have been shady with taking dance moves without credit, so I can't blame early responses. And it's not like there was 0 evidence to base stuff on, or that every response in the first few pages was vitriolic.
When it became apparent that Deviant Art's system was awful, and when Razor Mom entered the thread to let us know this was their friend, that's when people should have taken note and at THAT point the real issues in the thread began:
People piling on Razor mum (myself included, ashamed of that fully)
People not reading the update about Deviant Art's system being easy to game and still dropping their takes
THIS is the part of the thread we really need to look at. Let's not let the thread turn into a reverse version of itself and start piling in acting all high and mighty like there was 0 reason for some of the initial responses, but let's call out all the shit behaviors from the parts of the thread where people really should have taken note (myself included).
Last edited:
I think they'd be well within their rights... now wether they want to be seen as suing a kid over a (absolutely moronic and irresponsible) prank is another thing entirely.
True.The lesson to be learned here is that you really don't need to jump at the first Epic-adjacent person you can come across to shit on the company.
There are other reasons to shit on Epic
When I stumbled upon this thread earlier today (which was 12 hours ago), I knew that even though Epic is stupid, they wouldn't be this stupid.
It's not internet behavior, it's just basic existing a world where sometimes there's misinformation. If a news outlet reports that a political figure had corrupt dealings, I may comment "woah that guy is corrupt." Then the next day the news outlet says actually they were tricked, then I'll comment "oh I guess he wasn't corrupt. Also I trust that news outlet less now." I don't see the big deal about that. My initial comment is very easily retractable. It doesn't make me a hater, an idiot, or a mob member - as long as I recognize the new information.
If my initial reaction was not "woah that guy is corrupt," but was "I fucking hate that guy so much!!!", it's over the top. But the issue there is not in disliking the politician, but in the manner of maturity with which that sentiment is expressed. Having a position of disapproval remains reasonable given the information, and it is still subject to change given new future information.
Now if people were trying to identify the specific artist and go after him as an individual, then that absolutely is mob mentality and psychotic and should 100% not be allowed. If the artist had done something wrong, it would be Epic's responsibility to deal with it and no one else's.
All this did was expose once again how quick Era can turn toxic and stupid when a company people don't like is involved in potential scandal.
The focus on being wrong is part of the problem with the backlash to the backlash. It conflates process and outcome in a toxic fashion. Like, what if Epic did steal an artist's character design? Would the reactions have suddenly been okay?
No, not necessarily. That's just a poor lens through see this through - a schadenfreude-based lens. "I now know the answer, and previous posts no longer hold up!" isn't nearly as interesting a phenomenon as some seem to think it is. It turns out existing in a state of uncertainty doesn't stop heated discussion from happening!
It probably doesn't happen nearly as often as you think.
Wow, the crow served in this thread was great. Glad Razor Mom's friend was innocent and that they stuck by them! People just love piling on the "hate Epic" bandwagon unfortunately. These types of instances happening serve no purpose other than furthering the aggressive behavior of people who want to hate on everything.
I'm sure this wont be the last instance of this happening unfortunately. :(
I'm sure this wont be the last instance of this happening unfortunately. :(
I can assure you right now the majority of this forum, let alone expanding to say, Twitter, do not behave or speak in the same ways as they do online, face to face.
There is a known phenomenon where the internet seems to bring out the worst in someone, presumably because they feel like they are roleplaying online or are protected behind a persona/avatar.
I'm not just talking about trolls here, I'm talking about otherwise reasonable people in the real world who act very angry and/or passive aggressive online. Basically bullies on the internet, whilst ironically at the same time often saying they are "fighting for justice".
Some self-reflection is needed when you proclaim to be a progressive, yet when you interact online many of your posts are just anger and rage aimed at everyone and anyone who isn't you.
As I said, it's not about curbing talking about breaking news, or giving your best opinion on a situation where you could be wrong later. It's about your personal behaviour and the ways you conduct yourself and/or appeal to authority to ban anyone who isn't behaving like yourself. That's not tone policing for anyone who hide behind "tone policing accusations" as if saying that means "I can behave however I want if I feel justified in doing so". It's asking people to self-reflect and remember persona/avatar or not, what you post online is a reflection of yourself.
The internet may not be "real life", but some people need to ask themselves why they might behave totally different online, from offline. Apart from some general hypocrisy, we all fall foul to from time to time, the goal should always be honesty and integrity and trying to hold yourself accountable and responsible whether you are online or face to face.
Wow, people should be fucking ashamed of the way they treated Razor Mom. Zero fucking empathy whatsoever.
When it was becoming pretty clear that they might have been right all along, the tone shifted to "well your conduct has been poor so I don't need to apologize or feel bad at all!". Fucking gross. Their friend was being accused of something terrible and the internet mob was jumping straight to "GUILTY!". Let's so how polite you would be in that kind of situation. But it's ok, because Epic is a big bad corporation and you don't need to have any empathy at all when you cut the actual people involved out of the equation.
When it was becoming pretty clear that they might have been right all along, the tone shifted to "well your conduct has been poor so I don't need to apologize or feel bad at all!". Fucking gross. Their friend was being accused of something terrible and the internet mob was jumping straight to "GUILTY!". Let's so how polite you would be in that kind of situation. But it's ok, because Epic is a big bad corporation and you don't need to have any empathy at all when you cut the actual people involved out of the equation.
If people who partook in mob mentality got temp bans people would start doing what they should be doing which is waiting until more information is out before mobbing up on other people. Especially if the people in the thread don't have information about what is going on at all in the first place.
There was but also stuff like mob mentality bleeds out of the forums if it's allowed to fester there. People make YouTube videos based on ERA, people post on Twitter based on ERA, people will go try to find the artist (or other unrelated people at the company!) and send death threats, etcetcetc.
You don't feel bad at all for saying "shame on you Epic" when it literally isn't Epic's fault even if there was plagiarism happened? It isn't possible for Epic to check for plagiarism on their artists (especially any freelance ones) work compared to literally hundreds of millions of people's indie art across the entire internet.
It's just so blatantly unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to do that. The nature of plagiarism is that for the most part it's really hard to actually catch unless you're like a college with a fancy plagiarism detector which only works because colleges actually feed those completed essays and stuff.
Like, let's just use this thread as an example and hypothetically say it was legit. You're okay with blaming Epic as a whole and making hundreds of other people who work their feel like shit and rile up the ol' internet mob (which love to do scummy things ranging from hateful PMs to death threats to doxxing to swatting) because Epic didn't go to some random no name 13 year old furry's DeviantArt to catch the plagiarism.
???
I don't like Epic for the moves they're doing with the EGS or how Sweeney acts, but this is something else. It really isn't that hard to chill a bit when something comes to light and to have some empathy and understanding about the human element at play here.
OP
OP
I have made several 'mood lifting' threads in the past and it's just the same thing over and over.
Made a you are now in a date with the last character you played as? A big chunk of the replies were like 'gross OP' or 'I'm not gay' like why are you even replying to that.
Made one about a game that had nothing to do with the THQ shit? (even though it was not very clear at first) every comment was like 'yeah I'm not touching epic see you in 2020' I'm certainly tired of the rampant negative replies, even if I opened this thread I was very clear about not being 100% sure about what the artist was claiming.
Terrible.
Glad it all came out in the end. I just hope the Epic artist didn't go through too much stress as a result of this and that the kid (idiotic as their behaviour may have been) doesn't get harassed online now. Somebody should definitely sit them down and give them a stern talking-to about copyright, fraud and how someone's livelihood was endangered by this little stunt, though.
To be fair, in the video Jim took down, he did mention that there was a possibility of it being a fake and didn't present anything as fact. Though he was leaning more strongly towards the kid telling the truth. But it was a good deal more nuanced than the "fuck Epic" responses on the first page of this thread.
I like a lot of Jim's content, but he Jim has his radar set to "AAA bad" "publisher bad" "users heroes", which is a bias he needs to check.
Some of y'all act like children but call yourselves adults. The constant reactionary bullshit is really tiring.
Any opportunity to throw in some malicious hot take because you don't like the company is becoming increasingly transparent here.
Any opportunity to throw in some malicious hot take because you don't like the company is becoming increasingly transparent here.
He can be a bit too biased, yeah. I was merely replying to people who hadn't seen the video and were now assuming Jim had gone all out on the "Epic definitely, without a shadow of a doubt plagiarised this kid's art" angle when he actually hadn't.
I'm not saying people shouldn't be skeptical if something seems fishy. However, online art theft is already taken with plenty of skepticism and apathy. If you want an example of how bad it is: see the popularity of the bot Archillect, which scours art blogs (mostly Tumblr) for images that matches its aesthetic, takes those images without permission, and posts them without credit. There's a separate Twitter bot that gives the source of those images, but it doesn't get nearly as much attention. The creator knows a lot of artists have a problem with this, but doesn't give a shit. As an example of how little people care about that this happens, here's a thread on this forum of people getting hyped because they thought Archillect might be teasing a Death Stranding reveal. This was brought up in the thread by a couple of people (including me), nobody gave a shit because oh shit oh fuck Kojima the god the genius might reveal another Death Stranding teaser that shows nothing. Getting hyped cause the art stealing bot with aesthetic with no connection to the game might be teasing a thing for the game.
User Banned (3 Days): Driving thread derailment and modwhining
It's... a real bummer. This place could be, and should be better, but I've found the moderation just doesn't have the initiative to maintain quality discussion.
I agree, from what I can see Jim's take was fair overall and the evidence did look damning at first. He sometimes go a bit too hard in on the whole "triple Aaaaaa" thing, though, and he probably did think he had a smoking gun.
I didn't see the video as I was sleeping, but there are many reports of his stance being as you say. If people are misrepresenting that ITT shows that it really doesn't matter what happens to draw light to reactionary BS behaviours as this thread has, if there's a train some people will always climb on board.
This thread isn't going to teach the forum as a whole anything, unfortunately.
He was leaning more towards it being real but he did point out that you can edit DeviantArt works after the fact and that it's a developing story.
And yeah, I don't think so, either. When these things happen it's usually because people are too emotionally charged. I mean "Fuck Epic" isn't exactly a level-headed, well-thought-out response, it's an emotional one. It's difficult to get people to take a step back and think things through when they're in that sort of place.
Not sure if they'd care about bad press, last I checked they're still suing a kid for cheating at Fortnite.
Well, fuck that guy.
But also fuck Epic for a ton of other reasons. Nobody wins.
Epic needs all the help and protection it can get. They do nothing bad, ever!
But also fuck Epic for a ton of other reasons. Nobody wins.
Epic needs all the help and protection it can get. They do nothing bad, ever!
I think most of us have a bias when it comes to kid person vs giant stupid company.
The original accusation was easy to believe because of that, the supposed upload date, and because of Fortnite's dancing history.
Even in this day and age you still don't expect that anything put in front of you might be fabricated disinformation.
I bailed out for the rest of this thread, so I dunno about whatever else went on.
Hope this won't make people even more dismissive of people's actually valid issues with Epic.
I think when we contribute to something negative and shitty we should try to counter it and not let that be the way it ends.
Could we make this up to the original artist somehow? Apparently someone in this thread knew them?
The original accusation was easy to believe because of that, the supposed upload date, and because of Fortnite's dancing history.
Even in this day and age you still don't expect that anything put in front of you might be fabricated disinformation.
I bailed out for the rest of this thread, so I dunno about whatever else went on.
Hope this won't make people even more dismissive of people's actually valid issues with Epic.
I think when we contribute to something negative and shitty we should try to counter it and not let that be the way it ends.
Could we make this up to the original artist somehow? Apparently someone in this thread knew them?
Society these days, accusations apparently mean someones guilty... Whatever. In this instance it means nothing, I hope the person who created that character on Fortnite didn't receive too much hassle.
Shows how truly toxic he is in general really.
Last edited:
I guess I just have a little difficulty understanding the thought process of putting a video out of this story if you're going to take it down depending on the outcome, especially if you frame it as going either way.
Like it's weird that it both went up in first place and that it was taken down.
Oh I did learn a lesson, I'll probably stay off this forum around april 1st next year.
User Banned (3 days): Antagonistic behaviour
Are you fuckin kidding me? Did you really say it's not a good idea to hold off judgment until you have all facts? That's 100% the solution. Im really at a loss. Why does everyone want to jump to conclusions without facts. You dont feel bad for saying shame on a company when you didn't have all the facts and then looked like an ass for being wrong? Well then there's a problem with you and you'll just look like an idiot the rest of your life. So if that's what you want go ahead. But don't be shocked when people call you a moron from here on out
OP
OP
I do agree this place should be better, but the mod team has to go to some shit like everyday and they can't be everywhere :/
So he was pulling a fast one.
Apologies to the artist who made the Fortnite skin, usually believe the small artists when they claim their art has been stolen so I won't apologise for that, but I shouldn't have been quick to say he 100% plagiarised the accuser's art.
The next time this happens I'll wait for the facts, even if it looks like an open and shut case, lol.
My bad.
I'll also admit my bias towards disliking Epic clouded my judgement.
Apologies to the artist who made the Fortnite skin, usually believe the small artists when they claim their art has been stolen so I won't apologise for that, but I shouldn't have been quick to say he 100% plagiarised the accuser's art.
The next time this happens I'll wait for the facts, even if it looks like an open and shut case, lol.
My bad.
I'll also admit my bias towards disliking Epic clouded my judgement.
I used the metaphor "you don't hang someone before you know if they did it", and then in another paragraph I said "so you don't say fuck you to everyone (the internet equivalent of hanging) without proof"). There's these things called words and sentences and paragraphs and when put together into a whole post they mean things
I can't pay the mortgage with mod bucks
Everybody does what they can
A troll literally tried to destroy an artists career by claiming plagiarism.
But Epic is engaging in business practices that are par for the course for this industry, so fuck them they deserve that?
Dude get a grip.
- Status