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Given what we learnt today of all the other examples in Assasin Creed where it happened, it's looking quite likely
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Former Ubisoft devs bring up examples Ubisoft devs trying to put explicit rape and torture scenes in
- Thread starter rras1994
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The torture scene is almost certainly from Splinter Cell Blacklist, and was shown off to press back in 2012 before it was cut.
The player is then presented with a "moral choice" as to whether to knock out or kill the terrorist they had no choice in torturing.
Tom Bissell's description of his reaction to that E3 demo, in his Grantland review of Spec Ops: The Line, is a piece of games writing that has always stuck with me.
Eurogamer said:
The player is then presented with a "moral choice" as to whether to knock out or kill the terrorist they had no choice in torturing.
Tom Bissell's description of his reaction to that E3 demo, in his Grantland review of Spec Ops: The Line, is a piece of games writing that has always stuck with me.
Tom Bissell said:
She is the main canon character of Valhalla yes. Eivor is a gendered female name.
Well thats the final reason for boycotting Ubisoft products. Sounds like a nightmarish culture.
I kinda wondered why it didn't switch to Aya in Origins. She seemed to always be doing cool shit. Although I really liked Bayek a lot. He was one of the most expressive characters they had done up til then. I actually sympathized and cared about what happened him.
Kassandra was clearly the better character in Odyssey. She was also very expressive and I really liked her eye rolling sarcastic attitude. Her brother seemed like a after thought. I tried to play as him when I double dipped in PC and didn't get off the first island before I went back to Kassandra.
Ubi needs to clean out all the toxic garbage people from the company. I don't care how creative they are. There are plenty of other people that aren't trash that deserve a chance to have their creative voices heard in the industry.
I hope they actually follow through cause I do enjoy their games.
Kassandra was clearly the better character in Odyssey. She was also very expressive and I really liked her eye rolling sarcastic attitude. Her brother seemed like a after thought. I tried to play as him when I double dipped in PC and didn't get off the first island before I went back to Kassandra.
Ubi needs to clean out all the toxic garbage people from the company. I don't care how creative they are. There are plenty of other people that aren't trash that deserve a chance to have their creative voices heard in the industry.
I hope they actually follow through cause I do enjoy their games.
A former Ubi game dev who worked on AC 2 to 10:
Also this bit about Aya who should have been the lead in Origins:
So yeah, we've been robbed of Aya (although I really love Bayek, my fave male character in the franchise), we've been robbed of Evie too (things were supposed to be evenly split between the twins, the final result heavily gives Jacob the storyline while he's hands down one of the most insufferable male character of the franchise). We almost got robbed of Kassandra (they had to create a male counterpart to justify her existence), and 2 months ago we had to dig deep into the physical collector edition website page to even find a picture of female Eivor back when the 1st trailer got released. Same shit repeats itself.
Also this bit about Aya who should have been the lead in Origins:
So yeah, we've been robbed of Aya (although I really love Bayek, my fave male character in the franchise), we've been robbed of Evie too (things were supposed to be evenly split between the twins, the final result heavily gives Jacob the storyline while he's hands down one of the most insufferable male character of the franchise). We almost got robbed of Kassandra (they had to create a male counterpart to justify her existence), and 2 months ago we had to dig deep into the physical collector edition website page to even find a picture of female Eivor back when the 1st trailer got released. Same shit repeats itself.
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1. People on the first page doing some whataboutism shit need to shut the fuck up
2. This is so incredibly disgusting I don't even know what to say.
2. This is so incredibly disgusting I don't even know what to say.
These companies have strict NDA about not talking about anything going on within it or you may get sued into oblivion. They will force things to get resolved internally as much as possible.
What is wrong with people?!
This is the worst thing I've ever heard of in the history of gaming! I hate gaming so much right now, this shouldn't ever be able to happen! And it went all the way to mocap?!?!
Wake up! This is NOT entertainment!
Feels like the whole hobby has become a cancer tumour of violence and hate, it just gets worse and worse, the bar is constantly pushed forward, always digging deep into the darkest parts of humanity, when killing wasn't enough they went for decapitations, then Xray deaths, then torture! And now rape!?
Just close it all down. I don't care.
This is the worst thing I've ever heard of in the history of gaming! I hate gaming so much right now, this shouldn't ever be able to happen! And it went all the way to mocap?!?!
Wake up! This is NOT entertainment!
Feels like the whole hobby has become a cancer tumour of violence and hate, it just gets worse and worse, the bar is constantly pushed forward, always digging deep into the darkest parts of humanity, when killing wasn't enough they went for decapitations, then Xray deaths, then torture! And now rape!?
Just close it all down. I don't care.
Because if you expose this while still working at the company you'll be fired the next day, and if you expose it after you've left you run the risk of companies not hiring you in the future because they're afraid you'll also expose fucked up shit going on at their company.
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Nah , they were bad before with the numerous rape and sexual harassment accusations that they hushed up and kept the perpetrators in the company, and even promoted them, while they continued those behaviours. This is just what that kind of culture produces
Jesus that's rough...
My mind is immediately going to Far Cry 5 as being the most likely to have something like this.
Yeah, no one said a word about the violence in Last of Us 2...
Seriously now, come on.
My mind is immediately going to Far Cry 5 as being the most likely to have something like this.
Yeah, no one said a word about the violence in Last of Us 2...
Seriously now, come on.
For me I think they are, clearly the culture in that company seems to be very toxic. Something I can't support.
One would hope things like these aren't so widespread among companies :/ but yeah the fear would be too much.
Please keep this shit coming devs. I'm not asking current employees to share their stories, I understand its a small industry, but please if you're a former Ubisoft dev, help us bury the Guillemot family in so much of the shit they've created that they can't ignore and be forced to sell the company.
I don't think "Ubisoft bad" is the proper take to get from this either.
There are plenty of game devs in the company who try their hardest to make amazing progressive games, and fight tooth and nails for them to exist. There are many trying to do god's work (and the fact Kassandra & Eivor exist and were created as canon characters proves as much).
The pressure and the onus should be on the executive part of the company, as well as the editorial/marketing team who often block & hinder that process.
There are plenty of game devs in the company who try their hardest to make amazing progressive games, and fight tooth and nails for them to exist. There are many trying to do god's work (and the fact Kassandra & Eivor exist and were created as canon characters proves as much).
The pressure and the onus should be on the executive part of the company, as well as the editorial/marketing team who often block & hinder that process.
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Where's it say the people who came up with these ideas and implemented them aren't with the company anymore? The former dev referred to in the title is the person sharing these examples who previously worked at Ubisoft but no longer does which is why perhaps she feels comfortable sharing them
The scene that's being referred to when they talk about mocap is most likely the torture scene in Splinter Cell Blacklist, one that was cut from the game after backlash. On top of being a sequel to a game where one of the selling points was the fact that the player would be directly involved in multiple torture scenes.
I'm also guessing that the other scene involved Buck from FC3, a game that went out of it's way to have edgy controversial scenes that mostly came off as tone deaf, considering what happens before, during, and after you fight him.
I cared enough to not play the game. I did my part. I closed my wallet after the unveil trailer. I've been gaming so long that I've seen what gaming evolution does to violence, I'm not going to help it a baby step in that direction if I can avoid it.
Agreed. There are people who need to be removed from their positions over this, but it isn't as simple as "Ubisoft bad" because quite frankly there's bound to be stuff like this at every company, even if it's not quite as bad.
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing concerns around misogyny; account in junior phase
Is there anything more to go on with this than just a tweet? I've never played an Ubisoft game that came close to any of the shit talked about... can't help but feel like a lot of it is overblown talk. Sexual assault scenes are still in a lot of modern movies, which I don't support or ever want to watch, but it is a thing. In the same way that Last of Us handled torture, I feel like if you are going to put something extreme like that in a game or movie it should always be done off-screen and even then is never really necessary.
Saying "Ubisoft wanted a rape scene in their game" is the same as blaming the entire U.S. on something a single politician said. The problem people should be the focus, not the company. Where do you guys think they are going to go after being silently fired/let-go? Anywhere they want as long as their name isn't in the headline instead of Ubisoft.
Saying "Ubisoft wanted a rape scene in their game" is the same as blaming the entire U.S. on something a single politician said. The problem people should be the focus, not the company. Where do you guys think they are going to go after being silently fired/let-go? Anywhere they want as long as their name isn't in the headline instead of Ubisoft.
this is fucking terrible, freaking vibration and gameplay interaction for a rape scene...
what games was this supposed to be in, AC odyssey?
what games was this supposed to be in, AC odyssey?
I'm fairly confident in saying that indeed, there must be stuff like this in every company (with varying degrees), as long as the top head of the company is full of white cis het men, and that no women nor minorities are allowed any position of power on the highest levels of the company, this crap is bound to happen again and again.
I talked about that a few weeks ago in the French Era thread when all of this Ubi mess was exploding in the French press, that company boasts about having a higher percentage of women than most video game companies, which, at face value, is good. But how many of these women are in true position of power? How many of them are game developpers and creators? And how many of them are just put in entry-level jobs in which they get harassed for months until they have enough of this toxic culture and quit (and sometimes quit the video game industry altogether)? And how many of them get the promotions they deserve over their male peers that most of their male superiors are heavily biased to favor over them? How many of them are allowed to grind the ladders until they all eventually hit the glass ceiling, usually the same one for all of them called "locker room culture"?
But this is deeper than just Ubisoft, at this point, this is global.
Did Jade Raymond ever explain why she left the company?
Maybe she left because of shit like this?
I agree with what you said, but the bolded isn't true.
Female Eivor was all over the Ubi Forward stuff in the gameplay trailer and the 30 minute walkthrough Ubi put out.
And as for Female Eivor being "the canon one" which would make some sense since Layla is the modern day protagonist in the RPG AC games, the writer is saying both Male and Female Eivor are canon and exist at the same time. I personally don't understand how that works, but it does seem like a shoehorned way to not allow for just one character.
As an example that this doesn't just happen at Ubi, friendly reminder that the earlier concept of The Last Of Us had all the infected be women (only women were impacted by the fungus), until several female developpers repeatedly had to make the point that a game in which all enemies are women is maybe not the brightest idea, and was actually pretty misogynistic in essence. Thankfully Druckmann listened to their feedback, and eventually scrapped that idea.
I'm glad he did. But I imagine there are many people who might not have listened to that feedback at all, or might not even have women in the team in position to even tell them this was a bad idea in the first place. That the idea was even entertained for a while is honestly bad to begin with. That idea should have been scrapped as soon as it first got voiced in the pre-production reunion room. But I wonder how many women were in that room when that happened.
You are right, and that is why I used the word "was", since I'm mentioning the trailer that got released back in May, and the subsequent total silence about female Eivor that ensued for 2 months until that Ubi Forward, that happened in the midst of accusations of sexism and sexual misconducts at Ubisoft. I was pleased to finally see her at that Ubi Forward though, but I won't forget the months of silence about female Eivor's existence still, not gonna lie.
I'm glad he did. But I imagine there are many people who might not have listened to that feedback at all, or might not even have women in the team in position to even tell them this was a bad idea in the first place. That the idea was even entertained for a while is honestly bad to begin with. That idea should have been scrapped as soon as it first got voiced in the pre-production reunion room. But I wonder how many women were in that room when that happened.
You are right, and that is why I used the word "was", since I'm mentioning the trailer that got released back in May, and the subsequent total silence about female Eivor that ensued for 2 months until that Ubi Forward, that happened in the midst of accusations of sexism and sexual misconducts at Ubisoft. I was pleased to finally see her at that Ubi Forward though, but I won't forget the months of silence about female Eivor's existence still, not gonna lie.
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I live in the viking region, Eivor is a woman's name, there is currently 0 men called Eivor in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland. For that reason alone I seriously doubt that male Eivor is canon. You can swap between the characters at any time too so it was probably an easy thing to add a male version if a higher up really wanted it, they just needed to record the audio.
Ah, you were speaking about the initial reveal. Yeah, it was kinda weird that her only appearance was via figure, and that pissed people off because "why is the female character in the collectors edition? I am going to play the male!"
Although I understand the tendency to link this revelation to what we know of Ubisoft corporate culture, it actually just seems misguided and dumb to me.
The first things I thought of reading about this are movies like irreversible.. and not just irreversible, there are countless films with depictions of rape. I prefer to think such scenes are usually not there for salacious reasons (although there are doubtless some) but rather to alarm, shock and confront.. I've seen films that have such scenes and they are actually quite powerful and troubling, and that's the intent, there are reasons.. beyond thematic reasons, where the narrative and horror has meaning and is intended to stay with the viewer / consumer of the content, designed to provoke sadness or shame, anger, desire to see justice / revenge, or to provoke thought or a moment in public discourse - perhaps those depictions of sexual violence might have a place, that's up for debate, I know some victims would find even those depictions problematic... In any case: I can't imagine that place being any Ubisoft game, be it Splinter Cell, Farcry, Assassin's Creed! What the hell were they smoking? Did they forget games are supposed to be interactive leisure?
I can well imagine some gritty edgelord game director wanting to be 'brave' enough to do the game equivalent, but yknow - even MORE shocking - because you can feel it in the controller - wow. Stupid, but I guarantee you I bet they thought they were being artful rather than distasteful.. how it got as far as mocap?.. well that just tells you lots of loyal yes men (and maybe even women) were involved, that people were too afraid to object to it, or that people were ignored. Perhaps the people in charge just did not want to hear it was a bad idea. Having said that, we should probably count it as a small mercy it never actually made it to a production build!
I imagine whoever pitched that idea is watching this unfold now with some shame!
The first things I thought of reading about this are movies like irreversible.. and not just irreversible, there are countless films with depictions of rape. I prefer to think such scenes are usually not there for salacious reasons (although there are doubtless some) but rather to alarm, shock and confront.. I've seen films that have such scenes and they are actually quite powerful and troubling, and that's the intent, there are reasons.. beyond thematic reasons, where the narrative and horror has meaning and is intended to stay with the viewer / consumer of the content, designed to provoke sadness or shame, anger, desire to see justice / revenge, or to provoke thought or a moment in public discourse - perhaps those depictions of sexual violence might have a place, that's up for debate, I know some victims would find even those depictions problematic... In any case: I can't imagine that place being any Ubisoft game, be it Splinter Cell, Farcry, Assassin's Creed! What the hell were they smoking? Did they forget games are supposed to be interactive leisure?
I can well imagine some gritty edgelord game director wanting to be 'brave' enough to do the game equivalent, but yknow - even MORE shocking - because you can feel it in the controller - wow. Stupid, but I guarantee you I bet they thought they were being artful rather than distasteful.. how it got as far as mocap?.. well that just tells you lots of loyal yes men (and maybe even women) were involved, that people were too afraid to object to it, or that people were ignored. Perhaps the people in charge just did not want to hear it was a bad idea. Having said that, we should probably count it as a small mercy it never actually made it to a production build!
I imagine whoever pitched that idea is watching this unfold now with some shame!
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I think the mocap is referring to the torture scene which, as others have pointed out, could very well be referring to Splinter Cell: Blacklist.
It's unclear to what degree the proposed rape scene was implemented.
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Another example would be the cancelled EA game were you play as Jack the Ripper except dun, dun, dun, he's actually the misunderstood hero. They green lit a game were they tried to rehabilitate the image of a real life serial killer who brutalised women. Honestly there's multiple examples that I can think of horrible , offensive stuff like this that uses minority's trauma as fodder for edgy entertainment. This problem is rife in the industry.
Yeah, the whole "they both exist at the same time" thing sounds like its going to be a made up "first civ bullshit" thing in the story.
This is a really important paragraph. Listening to all the women talk about how they had to fight to get the representation we got tells you the story.
Interestingly, I wonder how hard it'd be to fix the corporate culture at this point even if they legitimately started to make the right moves. Like if they fired every harrasser, would women even want to work there now?
I fucking called it when I saw male Eivor in the world premier trailer that female protag have been playing second fiddle (and get the second billing) and will continue to do so in a franchise that would sell millions regardless. I never played both the last two AC titles but I most definitely noticed that Alexios got the bulk of marketing/promo including the boxart and press-kit. Some people here were defending the even split within the game but when the promotion of the title's protagonists are skewed in favour of status quo, that should tell us something. I am seeing the same thing happen with C2077 and the excuse is always the fucking same-
"It is to ensure that the broadest audience base is reached".
So in other words the publishers/promoters are telling us that the majority cannot handle or relate to minorities and on and on goes the self fulfilling prophecy. Because losing potential sales in pursuit of doing the right thing now and reaping long term benefits is not reward enough.
Was referring to some of the harrassers, because I imagine Ubisoft is nowhere near done with the cleansing...
Man
I once listened to the cut rape scene from Beyond
I don't think I'll ever be able to unhear it
