Gotcha. NateTheHate is a good one. I do prefer news updates sites like GX, though. Perhaps not anymore
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Former GameXplain members talk about troubles with the company (heavy crunch, low pay) [Update: André Response]
- Thread starter Magic-Man
- Start date
Gotcha. NateTheHate is a good one. I do prefer news updates sites like GX, though. Perhaps not anymore
I thought it was pretty fishy when so many people left at the same time, but people here kept insisting it was all completely normal and lovely
I didn't unsubscribe. But I really only watched GX for Derrick and John. I just have always thought Andre was a bit smug and had a poor attitude, but to each his own.
In the initial Resetera thread about the mass exodus from a few months ago, I posted that it was really odd for four principle members to leave all at once, and someone replied that it was perfectly normal and that there wasn't anything going on behind the scenes. Which seemed really strange to me. People just don't leave like that all at once without a reason.
Obviously that person was wrong.
Exactly. People seemed so sure that it was nothing. I still don't understand why they were so convinced of that. It always seemed awfully strange to me. And it's not like any of them had Andre on their new channels as a guest.
I'd rather assume he's preparing a statement which in and of itself is something I can't see leading to any good will but it's better than waiting and doing nothing.
This is really sad tbh, no wonder they barely talked about crunch when discussing games like TLOU2, would've looked real bad on André's part. I can only hope the newbies won't be overworked the same way but...
Let's be honest, they all got the gigs cuz they've been fans for years, before André was their boss, he was most certainly an idol to Chris, Tris, and probably even Joey. I'd like to believe André isn't manipulative to that degree, but anything's possible at this point
Let's be honest, they all got the gigs cuz they've been fans for years, before André was their boss, he was most certainly an idol to Chris, Tris, and probably even Joey. I'd like to believe André isn't manipulative to that degree, but anything's possible at this point
Steve's Account
Alright, y'all. I've been trying to keep my distance from this, but I see a lot of questions that I feel deserve some context, and I don't want to remain silent when I feel the community deserves answers.
Everything I'm going to say is rooted in fact. I won't be offering my opinions of GX, or of Andre, just things I know to be true, because they happened to me.
I joined GameXplain in December 2018. Andre started paying me for my work in September 2019. We discussed a fee of $550. I had no idea if my videos were even worth the amount I had asked for, and I didn't know what anybody else at the channel was paid at the time.
That $550 was a flat fee per-month, not per-video and without any additional performance-based incentives. That means if I did a couple of news updates or discussions, I got that $550.
Conversely, it also means if I was reviewing TLOU2 while playing through Paper Mario TTYD and participating in Game Club, I still got just $550.
Every month I also maintained GX's email server and worked with publishers and developers to secure review copies for the entire team.
If I brought in a sponsorship deal, meaning I negotiated the deal, wrote, recorded, edited and posted the video, I would receive 33% of the proceeds, with the remaining 67% going to the channel, but those were few and far between.
I didn't consider what my hourly rate was until my wife showed me the math; she was right.
After Derrick left, Andre offered me a full-time position for $50k annually, with 25% of sponsorships I brought in being offered. This was far lower than Andre was aware I was making at my full-time job at the time, and I couldn't accept it while supporting my family. I had concerns after seeing an employment contract offered to somebody else; there were clauses contained therein that would have brought a negative impact to my career.
We're not asking people to unfollow GX and we definitely don't want to undermine the work the new staff there has done and continues to do. They deserve the same consideration and love that you've all shown us over the years and all of us are unanimously agreed that we don't want this to undermine or reflect negatively on their efforts.
Regardless of your own opinion of Andre or GX, I'd like to ask that nobody engage in harassment of any kind. That isn't what GVG is about, and we don't condone that type of behavior, period.
I hope this sheds some light on my experience with GX. I appreciate all the messages of support I've received over the past 24 hours. I hope I've answered your questions!
And that's all I have to say about that. I love you all.
Everything I'm going to say is rooted in fact. I won't be offering my opinions of GX, or of Andre, just things I know to be true, because they happened to me.
I joined GameXplain in December 2018. Andre started paying me for my work in September 2019. We discussed a fee of $550. I had no idea if my videos were even worth the amount I had asked for, and I didn't know what anybody else at the channel was paid at the time.
That $550 was a flat fee per-month, not per-video and without any additional performance-based incentives. That means if I did a couple of news updates or discussions, I got that $550.
Conversely, it also means if I was reviewing TLOU2 while playing through Paper Mario TTYD and participating in Game Club, I still got just $550.
Every month I also maintained GX's email server and worked with publishers and developers to secure review copies for the entire team.
If I brought in a sponsorship deal, meaning I negotiated the deal, wrote, recorded, edited and posted the video, I would receive 33% of the proceeds, with the remaining 67% going to the channel, but those were few and far between.
I didn't consider what my hourly rate was until my wife showed me the math; she was right.
After Derrick left, Andre offered me a full-time position for $50k annually, with 25% of sponsorships I brought in being offered. This was far lower than Andre was aware I was making at my full-time job at the time, and I couldn't accept it while supporting my family. I had concerns after seeing an employment contract offered to somebody else; there were clauses contained therein that would have brought a negative impact to my career.
We're not asking people to unfollow GX and we definitely don't want to undermine the work the new staff there has done and continues to do. They deserve the same consideration and love that you've all shown us over the years and all of us are unanimously agreed that we don't want this to undermine or reflect negatively on their efforts.
Regardless of your own opinion of Andre or GX, I'd like to ask that nobody engage in harassment of any kind. That isn't what GVG is about, and we don't condone that type of behavior, period.
I hope this sheds some light on my experience with GX. I appreciate all the messages of support I've received over the past 24 hours. I hope I've answered your questions!
And that's all I have to say about that. I love you all.
Thanks. It's cool that the crew is doing videos with him again. I bet Andre was also the reason why Roger was no longer invited to all the Direct speculation videos in the last two years or so.
Today's News Tonight w/ RogersBase! (12/18/20) - Putting Supernova's Length to Shame
The one and only RogersBase joins the GVG crew to discuss Sephiroth joining Smash Ultimate, the Super Nintendo World Direct, One Piece's impending 1,000th ch...www.youtube.com
Thanks for speaking out Steve, I'm excited to see where you and the guys take GVG!
Thanks for the transparency, it's appreciated - keep up the good work at GVG.
FWIW, Ash and Steve still have full time jobs, Derrick is the only one who would be all in on GVG and it seems he's basically gone full time streamer
Sure does seem like most if not all industries just suck to work in. Like maybe labor in our current economic system is just inherently exploitative or something.
I didn't know that, that makes the amount of work Steve and Ash are putting in the channel even more impressive.
I have to feel for the new GX guys. Imagine signing up to be a part of one of the most beloved YouTube news groups and in the few short months you've been a part of it have the vast majority of the personalities leave and make their own channel leaving them to establish their own marks on the channel with no help from the old guard and now having the channel draw ire for its boss being a penny-pinching cheapskate.
Probably might be the reason the GVG guys wanted to distance from the reasons they left. It's just not fair for these guys to suffer for Andre's fuck ups. Here's hoping Andre addresses this and treat the new guys better and GameXplain can be a much better place to work for in the future. It's not like the channel deserve to be written off for the transgressions of one man. GX was more than one man
Probably might be the reason the GVG guys wanted to distance from the reasons they left. It's just not fair for these guys to suffer for Andre's fuck ups. Here's hoping Andre addresses this and treat the new guys better and GameXplain can be a much better place to work for in the future. It's not like the channel deserve to be written off for the transgressions of one man. GX was more than one man
That's partially because there's nothing going especially from Nintendo. What do you do when your channel is based off of overanalyzing upcoming Nintendo games when Nintendo barely announces games anymore
Yeah the whole "Paid $1-$2 per hour" seemed pretty bad to me until I realized the "making roughly" part alluded to moreso a flat rate that was made regardless of time spent, so the whole sensationalism behind Andre willingly only paying them that as a wage is heavily misguided
It's definitely going to become the main talking point around this entire situation though
It's definitely going to become the main talking point around this entire situation though
There's a lot of releases to cover actually but other channels do a better job covering what I felt GX considered to be beneath them (primarily 3rd party and indie games) Nintendo Life , NWR and other reviews oriented channels have no trouble releasing content.
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It really upsets me when someone who you think is a good guy and advocates for getting rid of crunch in the gaming industry turns out to just be a performative woke person who *potentially* could be doing it all for clicks. Seriously disappointed in Andre and I absolutely expect an explanation and apology.
OP
OP
As someone who was in a similar situation at my last job, you can't always know just how bad the behind the scenes/turnover stuff is until you're in there working. In my personal case I got offered 10k more a year, but within 2 weeks of my starting not only did the longest tenured employee leave, I found out the other 3 longest tenured employees had all left in the past few months. I knew by the end of month two I had gotten myself in an awful, toxic job, but it took me almost 3 months to find another job that wasn't a huge downgrade in pay.
All that said, based upon Steve's post a flat fee like that wouldn't have been a terrible gig for a part timer who put say 10-20 hours a month into it. For someone expected to crank out reviews for 40-80 hour games that's unacceptable.
I really hope Derrick wasn't paid a flat rate lol. I doubt it. I'm guessing he was given full-time pay, but clearly not enough. I don't think he could've been paid enough lol. The man WORKED. But for Steve to be paid that amount last year is insane. He became a regular voice like Derrick was. He did the Animal Crossing review and post content stuff. He was there for discussions. To be paid that little is indefensible no matter which way you cut it.
This is just so sour. I like Tris and Chris so I want to support them but like that's also supporting some poor shit too. Like I hope none of them are getting a flat fee pay. They aren't freelancers lol. If I recall correctly the 3 new employees were announced as "full-time" employees.
Oh. Big fucking yikes. I really thought you and Derrick were full-time. And like I said, Steve too after he did Animal Crossing.
This is just so sour. I like Tris and Chris so I want to support them but like that's also supporting some poor shit too. Like I hope none of them are getting a flat fee pay. They aren't freelancers lol. If I recall correctly the 3 new employees were announced as "full-time" employees.
This is a true statement, but IMO it detracts from the issues at play here. Things didn't *have* to go down like they did at GX, not even close.
Again it comes down to what is the flat fee and the expectations attached to it.
"I'll pay you $550 a month to be a part of a weekly discussion or podcast along with the time you need to research and potentially watch trailers/announcements" is a pretty sweet gig that'll take you 10-20 hours a month.
"I expect 2-3 videos a week, 1 review a month, you to take part in weekly discussions/podcasts, capture footage and edit your own videos, all of that for $550 a month" is awful and would basically require you to work like 40-80+ hours a month and drop your effective pay rate to under $5 an hour.
As long as the flat feet and work expectations came up to like $20ish an hour that would be a really solid gig based upon the view counts the channel gets a month. Maybe $15ish an hour back when the channel was smaller in the wiiu days.
$550 is an absolute paltry considering what Steve did. Especially with FF7.
Considering Derrick was also "full time", and likely only made 50k was just sickening.
Considering the channel easily makes around $320,000 a year on the low end, and Derrick, Steve, and Jon did most of the work of the channel.
Not only that, but Derrick for a fact worked way more than 40 hours a week. To get that little for so much crunch. Thats just.... Awful, and exploitative. And even if Steve "agreed" to it. It's absolutely just as worse. There is literally no reason for this.
And I have no problem with Tris and Joey. I actually followed Joey on his first channel, Ferris Wheel Productions. It's really important to let this air, so they can argue for better rights and working condition. Or, even leave. We need to make sure that this doesn't happen again, and if Andre isn't paying his staff fairly, forcing them to crunch, then something needs to be done.
Exploitative labor, especially without reasonable pay, is never worth it.
Considering Derrick was also "full time", and likely only made 50k was just sickening.
Considering the channel easily makes around $320,000 a year on the low end, and Derrick, Steve, and Jon did most of the work of the channel.
Not only that, but Derrick for a fact worked way more than 40 hours a week. To get that little for so much crunch. Thats just.... Awful, and exploitative. And even if Steve "agreed" to it. It's absolutely just as worse. There is literally no reason for this.
And I have no problem with Tris and Joey. I actually followed Joey on his first channel, Ferris Wheel Productions. It's really important to let this air, so they can argue for better rights and working condition. Or, even leave. We need to make sure that this doesn't happen again, and if Andre isn't paying his staff fairly, forcing them to crunch, then something needs to be done.
Exploitative labor, especially without reasonable pay, is never worth it.
Oh that's great, Joshy ShitBlock's reposting this thread, like he has any moral ground to stand on
Disappointing that your initial low fee wasn't increased as you took on more work but in terms of the full time offer, is $50k not a really good salary (no idea of US salaries tbh)? Totally understand you turning it down if it was less than you were currently on though. I guess the workload may have impacted how much the contract was really worth as well.
Oh nothing does. It's an unacceptable problem that affects a lot of the labor force. It's microcosmic.
I should specify I was paid more than Steve but was still on the low side of game journalists (£21k after tax). Unfortunately my hours were all over the place which people could probably interpret from the upload schedule, I needed to put that lifestyle behind me when I learned I was having a baby.
The sponsorship cuts in Steve statement werent ever communicated to me which is a bit disheartening. If I knew there was an a way to make a bit more money I might not have had to juggle 2 channels just to get by. As Steve said though, these weren't common anyway.
Frankly I'm not sure why we weren't all paid the same, Steve covered both the PS5 and Series X launches at the same time - including games like Astro Bot and Spider-Man.
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Yeah, I'm with you.
It's the uncomfortable situation of having to have the chat with your superior about money when things get bad. Valuing your time and efforts. It's not abnormal for a business person to try and get the most value out of their dollar, but it's also not abnormal for the employee to try to fight for every dollar they're worth.
Was there ever an attempt to say 'Hey Andre, I'm killing myself here and the money doesn't add up'? Or was it a situation where you didn't want to shake things up too much so you just went with it. I've been guilty of that and it always sucks.
thank you Steve for chiming in. I hope you and the rest of the GVG crew the best and a great future
For the longest time, I thought Steve was a full time employee given his output. He constantly was doing discussions, podcasts, news updates, unboxing, previews, as well as reviews for the biggest non-Nintendo AAA games (and big Nintendo games like Animal Crossing)! I always loved his content and it's disheartening to hear how little he got out given how much he put in.
Yeah I figured the baby was the reason you left. A baby can put some things into perspective lol. But yeah it is all disappointing to hear because you were doing a lot for the channel. Anyways good to hear you are in a better place, especially one that allows you be in a better mental state.
It just sucks that you and the others HAD to make that decision, especially since it seems that there was plenty of money to go around.
We could see the analytics which made Steve's pay even more baffling. Estimations here are pretty accurate.
So there was enough money to go around. Especially if the high end of estimations is accurate.
Very ill-advised from Andre. He had a very good thing going with the old crew and they pretty easily could have built upon something similar to Kinda Funny/Giant Bomb. Instead, it seems like he'd rather put most of the channel returns into his pocket. Probably because he doesn't believe in the longevity of the channel.
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Haha, yeah, looking at what's been said in the thread since maybe I should have mentioned it back then...ah well. Lol.
I wonder if anyone asked for better pay before moving on? Wouldbe interesting to know how Andre responded although if they did it would seem that it was a negative answer.