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Former Brazilian president Lula convictions annulled, political rights restored, may run in 2022 for president
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let's go brazil!!!! lula is such an improvement over bolsonaro.
though i fear they'll try to kill him or something
though i fear they'll try to kill him or something
So, was the whole thing just a way to get rid of him or is this a way to try and get rid of Bolsonaro?
Could someone give me the rundown on Lula's scandal? I know Brazil's political landscape is messy so I'm trying to get some untangled info.
OP
OP
He said that literally an hour before this decision was made.
He may either go back on his word or spend some quality time in Paris during the election...
yes, and lula being ineligible was one of 3 reasons why he said he would not support him in 2022.
But it goes beyond that, PSOL has gained a lot of ground these last 2 years, im not really sure they would drop everything for Lula. Some sections of PSOL im sure would not go for it.
I just want the best possible plan to get bolsonaro out, and I think lula is not it.
If it ain't Lula, who has the credibility and possible chance to win?
This, Ciro is an obvious choice even tho some of his plans in 2018 were insane.
The left should be showcasing candidates for at least a year already, but everyone is so involved in their own bubbles, in the end we will have again a PT vs bolsonaro second turn in 2022, and bolsonaro is going to win again.
Lula was charged for corruption - supposedly accepting favors from companies, like an expensive beachfront apartment, in exchange for securing government contracts for them.
The issue from the start is that all these accusations were very vague. For example this apartment wasn't legally in his name and he never even actually moved there, but it was ruled he had intended to go there eventually (in spite of it being left empty for years) and was secretly its owner in spite of never acting as such. The other cases are similar in how much they needed to stretch things to get close to him and how generally they weren't tied to specific acts from Lula as president (In another case, he often visited to a certain rural propriety in Atibaia, and it was eventually ruled that he was acting as its actual owner, due to his presence there, in order to tie some construction work done there directly as favors to him). However, this was done by judges and prosecution tied to the "Operation Lava Jato" which enjoyed great popularity at the time as fighting corruption and so they seemed to be able to make everything stick. Their narrative was further reinforced when appeal courts kept or even increased the sentences.
However, as it turns out, there was a huge leak of cell phone messages related to the people involved there. Prosecution and judges were working together from the start and every trial was basically just a public show where nothing the defense could do or ague would change their results. They even explicitly talked about not going after certain people who were considered their "allies".
This decision actually avoided going into any of that though, it just stated that the trials started in the wrong location, so all trials have to be restarted from zero elsewhere.
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Can you link to these polls? I found one that asked about rejection vs vote intention only for both, and Lula had less rejection and more vote intention. But I didn't find a poll with possible candidates for 2022 where Bolsonaro was not first with over 30% of vote intention.
It's in portuguese though
Só Lula poderia superar Bolsonaro em 2022, diz pesquisa [07/03/2021]
Pesquisa do Ipec sobre potencial de voto mostra que só o ex-presidente Lula tem mais capital político que Jair Bolsonaro. Leia no UOL
Good.
I would rather someone new, since I prefer even for charismatic and popular leaders not to stay too long in power. But from what I have seen I prefer Lula's policy positions to Ciro.
I would rather someone new, since I prefer even for charismatic and popular leaders not to stay too long in power. But from what I have seen I prefer Lula's policy positions to Ciro.
Yeah thats the one I saw, its not taking into account all candidates tho, only rejection and vote intention, it does not add the other candadates to the mix.It's in portuguese though
Só Lula poderia superar Bolsonaro em 2022, diz pesquisa [07/03/2021]
Pesquisa do Ipec sobre potencial de voto mostra que só o ex-presidente Lula tem mais capital político que Jair Bolsonaro. Leia no UOLnoticias.uol.com.br
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.co...bolsonaro-na-frente-em-todos-os-cenarios.html
this one had them all, amd lula is second place with 18% versus 33% against bolsonaro
Here in Peru we're fighting against our own sexist, ultra conservative, religion extremist and downright evil candidate. His name is Rafael López Aliaga and people have dubbed him Porky, he's actually embraced the nickname and uses it as the mascot for his campaign... his VP candidate said some really horrible things about women and their role as housewives and enablers of abuse. His VP candidate is a woman herself...
Wish us good luck, everyone.
Wish us good luck, everyone.
Not a fan of Lula but this is the 100% right call, they did so much bullshit in order jail him. Fuck Sergio Moro.
Nope, he's back in the race along with Forsyth. Forsyth is in decline though, while RLA is going up in the polls... I seriously don't get it.
Fuck me. Why is the world on fire? We can't even catch a break in Latin America for once.
Considering PSOL's biggest politician has been calling for a unified leftist candidacy in Rio's mayorship elections for years now, I hope the party as a whole will have the same self-awareness and make the right call. The left should not be facing Bolsonaro divided next year.
Wait, someone fill me on this but now we are assuming Lula was innocent of all the corruption charges that were made? Or are we being more forgiving of him because he's the "Better evil" when compared to Bolsonaro?
Because as far as I'm aware the evidence was incriminating of a lot of PT people.
Because as far as I'm aware the evidence was incriminating of a lot of PT people.
He might be innocent, I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the case and of Brazilian law. But ultimately, even if he's clean, as President of Brazil he let corruption to fester to unimaginable levels at Petrobras and at all leves of government, and the country is still paying the price. The price of incompetence is not necessarily lower than that of corruption.
Guzman fucked up big time, people like his party but not him, and while I think he tends to sound like a toothless centrist most of the time, he still makes very solid arguments about local issues and tends to mostly stand on the right side of divisive topics. Veronika Mendoza is really the one sensible option it seems, but people will keep saying "rojo comunista!", "socialista!", "progre!" without really knowing what it is they're saying.
He was arrested using charges that made no sense. This is focusing on that.
His prision was politically related and was pure injustice.
If they can prove actual crimes, than we have zero problem, but the car wash was a circus.
And he is not a "better evil" compared to Bolsonaro, Lula is a literal saint send from the heavens compared to Bolsonaro =P
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ME personaly i think if he made brazil better with all the corruption people put on his back, than the man is a genious and deserves another shot. Like i genuinely think the corruption charges makes him look better because if he had money left to do some of the stuff he did WITH the corruption dude is the best money distributor of the world
AND bolsonaro did everything and MUCH more and is destroying the country to ashes
but then again i am certain we will never have a 100% honest non corrupt president because it is simply the system that the military dictatorship gave us and it is basically unchanged considering we have today proof that Dilma's soft coup was helped by the military because she was trying to bring justice to the torturers and dictators of the military regime
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it's such a mess really, these last 8 years in Brazilian politics have been pure madness and dragged the country down...
IMO he is likely guilty in those cases, but also there was abuse and bias in his conviction for political reasons, it really is a mess.
also, I'm not supporting him in the 2022 elections, but if the the second round is between him and Bolsonaro, I'm voting for him, I already did the same in 2018 (well not him, but his party),
I think in the end this makes me more worried than hopeful, it's a lot of fuel for the right, and it weakens other better alternatives from the left IMO,
in terms of justice it's probably fairer to have the entire case run again with a different judge.
IMO he is likely guilty in those cases, but also there was abuse and bias in his conviction for political reasons, it really is a mess.
also, I'm not supporting him in the 2022 elections, but if the the second round is between him and Bolsonaro, I'm voting for him, I already did the same in 2018 (well not him, but his party),
I think in the end this makes me more worried than hopeful, it's a lot of fuel for the right, and it weakens other better alternatives from the left IMO,
in terms of justice it's probably fairer to have the entire case run again with a different judge.
Good call but the reason it happened is shameful. The Supreme Court judge is just trying to protect Judge Moro after all the leaked conversations he had with the prosecution...
Lula 2022 is the one and only that can beat Bolsonaro.
Lula 2022 is the one and only that can beat Bolsonaro.
I see you were not very aware then.
This doc is great, but it really needs a part 2.
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ty_hot why quote if you're gonna be a jerk and not actually be helpful? I was asking a question, if you don't want to answer just don't quote me....
Platy Could you give me more details? I would like some sources (I can read portuguese). I have no idea who are the trustworthy Brazilian news sources so it's hard to investigate (in english information is scarce).
On Wikipedia as they list the people involved with the corruption scandals a lot of them are PT ministers and people closely associated with Lula. From someone who is obviously out of the loop this seems a "Trump situation", where everyone around him gets arrested but people still defend him like he did nothing wrong and was oblivious to all the corruption happening.
What wikipedia ?
Because there is an entire page about the stuff that actually got him arrest and it was basically like what was previously said ... they took an apartment said it was his and went from there
This one is also important because of how it shows how partial the judges were wanting to jail him at any cost to the point of making rude remarks when his wife died.
Vaza Jato – Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre
You have to note that brazil history of corruption is HUGE. Like the previous president before him used privatization to destroy the country AND get money illegally .... while Lula's biggest thing, the "mensalão" was basically bribing a right wing senate and congress to vote for shit that actually took the country away from World Hunger Map. Should be noted that Bolsonaro also bribed the congress, but in a "legal" way AND to pass shit that will dive the country deeper into the hunger map again.