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Former 343 Employee Uploads Another Video Saying No Force Crunch
- Thread starter rrc1594
- Start date
Real shitty of the media to just run with a story without talking to him first. Even worse that he tried to get in touch with them and they ignored him. Dude is just asking people to listen and yet we still have people trying to push a narrative in this very thread. Poor guy.
He wasn't cleaning up his own words. He was cleaning up for people twisting his words, and as he pointed out not a single journalist reached out to him. I'll take his word over Jason's any day of the week.
Youre caping for journalists in a thread about how a developer was treated poorly by journalists?
This hill isn't worth dying on. Certainly not in this thread where a dev was blatantly ignored by press who took his statements out of context and cherry picked 1 thing to run with and caused him all this anxiety.
No, I'm not. My comment is targeted towards all those people who are accusing Schreier of dropping the 343i story when it would be the most damaging to them.
I guess my post was poorly worded. See above.
Nobody said Schreier has a agenda. But if it's true some people getting blocked by him, solely because they dare to mention the clarifing video, then that's poor. Unless they insult him or something, then it's understandable.
My previous post was more about gaming journalism in general, because making a article based on resetera thread is questionable and then not even responding when the developer in questions reaches out to you as a journalist is comical. We don't know who those journalist were, but they should feel ashamed of their poor work.
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User Banned (1 week): conspiracy theories
A site holding a story until it's at maximum amount of potential traffic (during a hype cycle) is like their business and airing the dirty laundry when most eyes are looking isn't really a bad thing, it seemed to bring change at Rockstar (I'll wait until they are deep into GTA6 before clapping them on the back) and ND head has talked recently about trying to stop their talent bleed and crunch culture (again I'll wait until they are deep into their next big project). I know it's not true for most of the gaming press, who are basically just a tool for the hype parades, but there's no bad look in Bloomberg doing that, just some who'll be upset by it.
1. When 4,000 people with #TeamXbox in their Twitter profiles all spam me with the same video, of course I'm going to block them, especially when most of them don't even seem to realize I never wrote an article about this guy. Some of you people are truly delirious.
2. I am not sitting on a finished article just to release it in a few months - that'd be absurd.
3. It's incredible how few people understand that "crunch culture" is not a matter of forcing people to work overtime, it's a matter of pressuring them into feeling like they have to put in as many hours as possible. Oftentimes that manifests in the exact way that this guy is talking about. Xbox fanboys all over the internet are seizing on this video as a way to prove that their precious 343 doesn't crunch, as if it'd ever be accurate to say a company "does" or "doesn't" crunch. Maybe I'd stop blocking so many of these people if they had any understanding of what nuance was or how workplaces function.
2. I am not sitting on a finished article just to release it in a few months - that'd be absurd.
3. It's incredible how few people understand that "crunch culture" is not a matter of forcing people to work overtime, it's a matter of pressuring them into feeling like they have to put in as many hours as possible. Oftentimes that manifests in the exact way that this guy is talking about. Xbox fanboys all over the internet are seizing on this video as a way to prove that their precious 343 doesn't crunch, as if it'd ever be accurate to say a company "does" or "doesn't" crunch. Maybe I'd stop blocking so many of these people if they had any understanding of what nuance was or how workplaces function.
The last page is full of comments of people saying that he is purposefully holding back the story, so that he can drop it when it would be the most damaging to 343i. This isn't the first nor the last time this is happening. He constantly gets accused of playing favorites, when in reality he is writing articles about pretty much every company out there and people get so defensive about their favorite companies being criticised-
I completely agree on your post, though. Already said that I'm sorry for the developer and that I'll be more careful about rough translations, in the future.
Edit: Beaten by the man itself. lol
There's a lot of people in this thread saying any overtime is bad. I just want to point out that the opposite can be worse. If you work in a toxic environment with high demands and a militant policing of OT, that leads to working off the clock.
It all comes back around to work place culture. He's saying 343i's is healthy. So, unless there are more people who choose to come forward to say otherwise, who are we to say he's wrong?
It all comes back around to work place culture. He's saying 343i's is healthy. So, unless there are more people who choose to come forward to say otherwise, who are we to say he's wrong?
User banned (1 week): concern trolling
Jason sensationalizing isn't uncommon, no matter how in the right he may be and the same applies to others, especially YouTuber's. You should be reaching out to your sources or letting the person you're quoting clarify their wording. This is how people get blacklisted from future job opportunities when shit hits the fan.
It's ridiculous. Basically if you don't tell me what I want to hear I will label you anti-"corporation".
How did this thread even become about Jason? We haven't even seen his 343i piece yet.
What did Jason even write?
👏🏽
it's really not that hard to understand, but maybe this will help given the additional perspective.
what is this nonsense post
I imagine unforced "crunch" has become worse in the past year with developers working from home, because you can't even turn the lights off at the office and force people out of the building if you wanted to. You've got all these people sitting at home along with all of their work tools now, and no direct in-person supervision - but still with the same ambient forces making at least some of them feel like they "want" or need to put in long hours.
Feel bad for this guy - less because of the haggling about "crunch culture" going on here, forced vs. "unforced", etc. - and more because he's clearly panicked and upset about how his words were reported on based on a bad rough translation. Probably a mix of fear about future prospects, and peers in the industry being upset with him.
As for Jason Schreier... I'm really not going to dignify yet another conversation about his "motives", lol. The guy I'm sure is subject to a neverending puke funnel of abuse from PlayStation and Xbox fanboys on social media depending on whose reporting has been good or bad, so if he wants to block a bunch of the more bothersome idiots, then bully for him.
Feel bad for this guy - less because of the haggling about "crunch culture" going on here, forced vs. "unforced", etc. - and more because he's clearly panicked and upset about how his words were reported on based on a bad rough translation. Probably a mix of fear about future prospects, and peers in the industry being upset with him.
As for Jason Schreier... I'm really not going to dignify yet another conversation about his "motives", lol. The guy I'm sure is subject to a neverending puke funnel of abuse from PlayStation and Xbox fanboys on social media depending on whose reporting has been good or bad, so if he wants to block a bunch of the more bothersome idiots, then bully for him.
He really shouldn't have to feel obligated to "clear up" confusion that he didn't cause in the first fucking place. To be frank. This is absurd.
So he really enjoyed his time at 343. This is awesome since that other thread kept shitting on 343.
My comments here are more about the general discussion going on regarding forced and unforced crunch
The way I see it is...You work for yourself and are your own boss? Have at it and knock yourself out. Work as much or as little as you like it's just impacting you right?
Once we get into a team environment those excess hours do have an impact on our peers. Whether one is working extra because they have to/are forced to, or because they are a perfectionist, or because the creative juices are flowing and they want to...people take note of that, and it sort of sets a bar by which others can be, and are, judged. Higher ups notice and set that expectation/bar, and co-workers notice and can feel they have to keep up because if not that might jeopardize their performance reviews, salary, advancement, etc. That can snowball.
"Sam over here is super passionate and always goes above and beyond for the team and the project...that's the level we should all aim to be at."
If you're fortunate you get compensated at least...but sometimes, like in my field, there is no compensation whatsoever and the work is done when the job is done.
Anyways, it's a complicated situation. It's more than well I'm just working more because I want to so what's the big deal?*
*Unless you work solo/are your own boss, or are THE boss and don't set that expectation for your employees.
Like others have said crunch is virtually unavoidable to some capacity no matter where you go and what you do...or that's been my experience at least, and so for me it's about the work place culture and it NOT being the expectation, and it being the exception and not the norm...and that can shift over time.
The way I see it is...You work for yourself and are your own boss? Have at it and knock yourself out. Work as much or as little as you like it's just impacting you right?
Once we get into a team environment those excess hours do have an impact on our peers. Whether one is working extra because they have to/are forced to, or because they are a perfectionist, or because the creative juices are flowing and they want to...people take note of that, and it sort of sets a bar by which others can be, and are, judged. Higher ups notice and set that expectation/bar, and co-workers notice and can feel they have to keep up because if not that might jeopardize their performance reviews, salary, advancement, etc. That can snowball.
"Sam over here is super passionate and always goes above and beyond for the team and the project...that's the level we should all aim to be at."
If you're fortunate you get compensated at least...but sometimes, like in my field, there is no compensation whatsoever and the work is done when the job is done.
Anyways, it's a complicated situation. It's more than well I'm just working more because I want to so what's the big deal?*
*Unless you work solo/are your own boss, or are THE boss and don't set that expectation for your employees.
Like others have said crunch is virtually unavoidable to some capacity no matter where you go and what you do...or that's been my experience at least, and so for me it's about the work place culture and it NOT being the expectation, and it being the exception and not the norm...and that can shift over time.
Of course and anyone believing otherwise is fooling themselves. Obviously you can block whoever you want, but I don't think everyone with a #TeamXbox in their profil wants to protect their favorite company. Some people just know you as arguably the most popular gaming journalist, who wrote several stories about crunch and stuff. So some of them just want to let you know about the developers thought.
Me, not knowing a single detail about the situation: Yeah, literally the only option is the most nefarious one.
It's hilarious the same people saying/implying journalists should listen to the source, be more attentive, pay more attention to what's going on, etc are trying to dunk on Jason lol.
The rumor he was sitting on an article has been going around recently, but I took it with a grain of salt, happy he came in here to shoot it down.
I know people who WANT to work as much overtime as possible and applaud themselves for being such hard workers.
I also know there are creators who do this on their own time to make something that'll get attention. So doing it while getting paid for it and making a name for yourself is a no brainer. Should the company say "nope, lights out at X time"? Is that realistic without a drastic overhaul of the market?
Hell there were times I wanted as much time on the clock while figuring out the maths and paths for a program I was working on when I first got into cnc. Going home for a reset and continuing in the morning was a creative and motivation killer.
I also know there are creators who do this on their own time to make something that'll get attention. So doing it while getting paid for it and making a name for yourself is a no brainer. Should the company say "nope, lights out at X time"? Is that realistic without a drastic overhaul of the market?
Hell there were times I wanted as much time on the clock while figuring out the maths and paths for a program I was working on when I first got into cnc. Going home for a reset and continuing in the morning was a creative and motivation killer.
He's probably still getting accounts, these type of stories take a long time, it's not like he just strolls up to 343i's office and does a Q&A every few months. Look at Cyberpunk he had multiple stories on them at different stages of development, same with ND and his recent Sony story goes back to 2018 and upto March 2021.
I'm not going to fault 343 nor this developer for this. Crunch sucks and needs to be eliminated, but till there's an industry wide union and developers are forced to clock out, go home, and relax after 40 hours then crunch will never completely be erased. It's like that in any industry, though.
There's always going to be individuals who will overwork themselves, if given the opportunity and not forced to stop. And it's nice that 343 is cool with them taking days off and have decompression time when those times do comes around for those people.
Crunch needs to be eliminated all together, but till the entire industry gets on board, I'll take how 343 seems to be handling it over how places like CDPR handles it where it's mandatory and emails are being sent to family members saying "it's worth it"
edit: I also want to add that developers getting fair wages and bonuses matter a whole lot too. That's another negative on CDPR. All that was forced and the pay wasn't even ideal.
There's always going to be individuals who will overwork themselves, if given the opportunity and not forced to stop. And it's nice that 343 is cool with them taking days off and have decompression time when those times do comes around for those people.
Crunch needs to be eliminated all together, but till the entire industry gets on board, I'll take how 343 seems to be handling it over how places like CDPR handles it where it's mandatory and emails are being sent to family members saying "it's worth it"
edit: I also want to add that developers getting fair wages and bonuses matter a whole lot too. That's another negative on CDPR. All that was forced and the pay wasn't even ideal.
What if the worker in question enjoys their work? Or what if they are working a few extra hours to test new skills they have been learning outside of work? What if they are trying to be promoted, which is important for their personal goals/plan, and working a bit more will help them achieve it? I don't think everything should be treated as a universal struggle.
And it has been mentioned that if one person puts work in then it raises the standards for the rest of the employees. Which I mean, I think most people would hope the workplace is a meritocracy. It doesn't always play out that way of course, but I don't see a problem with people who put more work in/do more being rewarded. It just depends what you value.
Sounds like a pretty standard work environment, if you ask me.
So in your opinion where's the line between "unhealthy crunch" and dedication to finish a project and/or reasonable overtime?
Seems even the devs you talk to don't agree on this and I'm not sure it's fair for you to tell the people involved themselves that their view of it is invalid.
It's about the "implication" to quote sunny. Sure it's not forced but if it's the culture of it and you'll be guilt tripped into doing it's basically required.
i work as a developer (non-gaming industry) and i thought this was pretty common. there are lulls where i will work 20 hour weeks then release crunches where i can go 90+
Show me where I ever said there was unhealthy crunch here or that anyone involved had an invalid view? You can't, because the only thing I've said about this matter is "The saddest thing about this is that you could replace 'Halo Infinite' with any big game title and it'd all still pretty much be true." If I ever publish a larger story or any other pieces about 343, you are welcome to talk about them to your heart's content, but right now it seems like the delirious console fanboys have just all decided I wrote something that doesn't actually exist.
This is what I was thinking. One of those unsaid rules that no one's going to be dumb enough to say out loud but the understanding is there that if you don't you won't last long.
I'm sure there are some that specifically mandate it, but a majority probably don't
I'm more annoyed at the fact that era decided that it sucks for this guy and comes to the rescue even though it clearly not what the video wanted to achieve. We know nothing about the situation at 343. If people there are passionate and like to do more (I frequently do that in my job because I like what I'm doing), than it's absolutely fine. If they are pressuring people to crunch then it's bad.
Right now there is no way to tell, although this guy is clearly on the former side.
Fanboys (of all sides) are so embarrassing. Sorry you keep having to deal with this.
I never said that you claimed this is a case of unhealthy crunch. I asked you your opinion on what constitutes as unhealthy crunch or just dedicated/overtime work.
And to me you saying " Oftentimes that manifests in the exact way that this guy is talking about."
Is telling this guy his opinion is invalid. He said he never felt pressured, he and others were given time off to decompress, and that not every dev felt the need to work extended hours. So for you to come back and say his opinion/experience is equatable to other "unhealthy crunch" situations, is to invalidate his experience. Especially when he says takes like yours are actually causing him mental anguish.
My post to you said nothing about fanboys or your rumored upcoming story. You can save all that for them. I just asked your opinion on the debate.
Well said. All the more reason why if shreier does do a 343 article, he should definitely interview this person. He's bringing up fanboys, but that's not the issue here.
Dudes just writes stories to expose truths. Nothing more nothing less.
Fan boys just want to weaponize his articles because.....fan boys
Yea, this sucks.. Either way, he's nothing if not sincere in both videos and I appreciated his information. I watched the original video in mandarin and he was actually generally upbeat and positive throughout the video, even when he was sharing about some of the drawbacks of the game state. Like when he was talking about Halo taking a long time, he wasn't attacking 343, but rather that it simply took a long time in relation to other games (which is absolutely true). Etc. etc. for other stuff.
Was there some points for concern that he brought up? Yea! But also, he clearly didn't dwell on them - and to me, that honesty made everything else he said about the game good too.
Honestly, I thought about offering my own translation to the original, but I figured it wouldn't matter much. The damage had been done. And boy has it.
(By the way, I do still think it's too early to DISCOUNT crunch at 343 en masse or even built into the culture, particularly in 2020. But let's talk about it when it actually comes up or when someone like Schrier can uncover and report on it more fully. Until then.. meh.)
Edit: Phew I wrote this before I read all the stuff on this page o.o I think I can stand by my words XD. Maybe? haha. But why am I not surprised that Jason has gotten pulled into this sort of thing yet again haha. I wish you the goodest of luck dude)
Was there some points for concern that he brought up? Yea! But also, he clearly didn't dwell on them - and to me, that honesty made everything else he said about the game good too.
Honestly, I thought about offering my own translation to the original, but I figured it wouldn't matter much. The damage had been done. And boy has it.
(By the way, I do still think it's too early to DISCOUNT crunch at 343 en masse or even built into the culture, particularly in 2020. But let's talk about it when it actually comes up or when someone like Schrier can uncover and report on it more fully. Until then.. meh.)
Edit: Phew I wrote this before I read all the stuff on this page o.o I think I can stand by my words XD. Maybe? haha. But why am I not surprised that Jason has gotten pulled into this sort of thing yet again haha. I wish you the goodest of luck dude)
He showed a screenshot of 3 headlines written about this. It's possible those were the ones.
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I've come to realise in these threads that you can't convince some people that crunch is toxic, damaging and even dangerous work environment.
I just hope that once you've fulfilled your passion or whatever's pushing you to perform at 200%, your employer would happily accept your measly 100% and let you have a life outside work
I just hope that once you've fulfilled your passion or whatever's pushing you to perform at 200%, your employer would happily accept your measly 100% and let you have a life outside work
One thing this developer mentioned was that he doesn't think 343 has crunch embedded into their culture. I know his views and experiences don't encompass an entire development studio with like 500+ people, but it's at least nice to see he doesn't think that crunch is a studio culture thing.
I don't think anyone is saying it's good, just deadlines and passion can cause it. In my particular case though heart surgery for kids depends on it, so I'm more than happy to crunch a bit to make sure that goes smoothly, obviously though my situation is unique.
Ugh. And I'm just gonna call out people on this site for posting hot takes to the title or maybe the summary without watching the video. Disgusting. Please, watch the video. It's in English. You'll also note that while his English is excellent, it is not his first language. He is translating internally and he doesn't speak perfectly fluently and sometimes doesn't use optimal word choice or in unconventional order.
I think you can still criticize what he means, but I see a lot of "gotchas" around his phrasing and word choice for a delicate subject where context is king. And I'm just gonna say, "No! Bad! Stop it!"
I think you can still criticize what he means, but I see a lot of "gotchas" around his phrasing and word choice for a delicate subject where context is king. And I'm just gonna say, "No! Bad! Stop it!"
off topic, but thanks to you for doing your job. Perhaps that sound weird, but I think while each job is valid, some deserve extra praise, due to them helping humans to survive.
The original thread was embarrassing. People reading into things that he didn't say because they so badly want to shit on 343.