[Forbes] What If Bungie Abandons PvP And Crucible Altogether For ‘Destiny 3’? (Bungie responds)

[Strakt]

Update: Bungie Responds

Bungie responds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...j_addresses_the_pvp_rumors_on_stream/ek1wnsa/

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Theres been recent posts all over the Destiny community lately about Destiny 3 removing PVP.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...ucible-altogether-for-destiny-3/#1da6507e78c8

The rumor is this:

Destiny 3 is considering dropping PvP and traditional Crucible

They are instead looking at something that works potentially like The Division's Dark Zone blending PvP and PvE

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These rumblings have been bolstered by the fact that Bungie has recently seen the departure of two high-profile team members Jon Weisnewski and Josh Hamrick, both senior gameplay designers who spent a lot of time in the sandbox balancing Crucible.

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However, it's been pretty clear that Bungie has been struggling with the Crucible for a while now. Players just have never seemed to like Destiny 2's Crucible as much as D1's, even with lots of changes. Trials was killed off last year and seems unlikely to ever return. Crucible Labs was an experiment that fizzled quickly. Even the Crucible team seems MIA, offering no updates about the future of the mode (and now major members of it have left). So far, none of the Annual Pass content has anything really to do with Crucible, outside of a few exotic quest steps and some Iron Banner tweaks.

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Content creators for Destiny have also been worried about the state of PVP for Destiny 3




I think Destiny would be in really bad shape if PVP was ever removed for Destiny. It is what keeps the game alive during content droughts.

The game still has almost a 50/50 split between PVP and PVE.

PVP still has about 500-550k players daily, where PVE has about 600k. (According to Destinytracker)

 

[jviggy43]

Remove it. Make gambit your pvp mode and put more resources into giving us pve content like foresaken. It's not worth putting the effort into a sub par mode.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

They shouldn't do this.
PVP was what you would do when you were out of things to do for the week with PVE.

That being said, PVP should have its own separate progression line and everything should be balanced very specifically to pvp.

 

[Bhonar]

totally fine with me, there doesn't need to be PVP in Looter Shlooters

 

[Bold One]

Not gonna happen, It does huge numbers in spite of Bungie.

It's also a massive part of the game's identity, seriously, where is this coming from? been hearing grumblings about this all week long.

 

[Solid Dude]

It's still totally insane to me that the developers of the most iconic multiplayer console shooters of all time haven't been able to figure out compelling PVP in Destiny.

 

[bsigg]

I'd probably be back if they focused solely on PvE content. I don't care all about the Crucible and only play through the PvE content.

 

[.exe]

Half of the reason I played Destiny 2 as much as I did was PvP in Crucible. If it's not in D3, I won't get the game. Simple as that.

 

[PlantedUnicorn]

I would prefer Destiny with no PVP cause they wouldn't have to keep fucking with PVE to balance PVP but I do not see this happening at all.

There are way too many people in the playerbase that would be pissed. Imagine them cancelling Trials then never bringing it back after saying they're working on fixing it.

 

[SweetNicole]

The PvP in Destiny has poor balance because they never treated PvE and PvP separately. If they actually treated PvP as a separate thing with its own specific balancing and such, it would be a fair more enjoyable experience. PvE makes PvP unbalanced, and then they nerf gear for PvP which also nerfs for PvE. PvE and PvP being tied together both negatively impact each other. I don't think it is likely that they'll ever want to split them up balance-wise, and I'd much rather they kill PvP entirely and give me more PvE content instead of continuing to push PvP as part of the game.

I would say it is likely that a fair amount of people do PvP not of fun but necessity. The game arbitrary forces you into that content to gear up from dailies/weeklies and quests. Exotic-forced PvP quests are some of the worst parts of Destiny 2.

 

[Joker Code]

It would be the dumbest thing they would ever do. I probably play more PVP than PVE.

 

[lucebuce]

As someone who absolutely hates Destiny PvP with every fiber of their being, the ideal solution is not to remove it entirely.

But rather to offer alternatives to the loot/goals that usually are locked behind PvP. I hate that I'm essentially given a choice of playing modes that I absolutely do not get any enjoyment out of to get a particularly good weapon/make progress with a quest or just say "fuck it" and ignore that thing altogether.

 

[KarmaCow]

If it means never having to play PvP for exotic quests, I'm all for it.

 

[Forerunner]

I played more PvP in Destiny 1/2 than the PvE. It's not the greatest PvP, but it's still fun.

 

[The40Watt]

I won't believe this rumor until Destiny 3 arrives without PvP. It is far too big a part of the game to drop.

Personally, I think I spend about 70% of my Destiny time in Crucible.

 

[Secretofmateria]

I want them to double down on pvp and go back to there routes with it, it would be cool if they introduced custom games and a forge like feature

 

[ClarkusDarkus]

Wouldn't care if it removed it personally, Not like i play it much anyway when i have done all the PvE content.

Saying that the PvE content gets done really fast and is alot of repeating the same missions.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That will not happen. Changes, sure. Independent balancing, sure.

Removal? Do ya'll know who Bungie is and what their brand was built on?

 

[lacer]

cool with me. easily the least appealing part of the game. i only ever played it to clear quest milestones, and even then i couldn't get through some of those.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

As long as they stupidly adhere to the lame brained notion that the game should play the same in PvP and PvE, both will suffer. If cutting PvP loose means PvE no longer has to suffer the constant nerfs dictated by imbalances present in PvP, then kill it.

 

[Conkerkid11]

I hate the PvP in Destiny, but I know there's a large audience for it. I'm conflicted though, because as a fan of the PvE in Destiny, the PvP absolutely impacts the PvE in a negative aspect. Every time a gun or ability is OP in PvP, they nerf it in both PvP and PvE.

PvP in a loot-based game also only just reinforces the idea of finding a meta and sticking to it. Which guns are the flavor in the month in PvP, and how do I obtain them?

I hope they get rid of it, but I really don't see them doing that, especially to just replace it with something even worse like the Dark Zone, which is The Division 1 and 2's worst aspect. Ideally, they would scrap PvP entirely, which would mean more content for PvE, and less stupid balance changes.

 

[Bhonar]

The PvP in Destiny has poor balance because they never treated PvE and PvP separately. If they actually treated PvP as a separate thing with its own specific balancing and such, it would be a fair more enjoyable experience. PvE makes PvP unbalanced, and then they nerf gear for PvP which also nerfs for PvE. PvE and PvP being tied together both negatively impact each other. I don't think it is likely that they'll ever want to split them up balance-wise, and I'd much rather they kill PvP entirely and give me more PvE content instead of continuing to push PvP as part of the game.

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I completely agree with your end conclusion, because I have zero interest in PVP

But why do you say the bolded part? It's not hard for Bungie to completely separate the PVE/PVP abilities and balance

 

[Juzzomac]

It would be a damn shame if a Bungie shooter didn't have PvP.

Destiny 2 went in the wrong direction with the focus on teamshotting and 4v4, but Destiny 1 Y1 PvP was some of the most fun I've had on gaming. You actually felt powerful and your skill determined outcomes in engagements, not simply numbers.

They just need to completely seperate PvP and PVE balancing.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Even as a lapse, destiny fanatic, some sort of pvp is essential because content drops are few and far between. Once you clear your weeklies on Tuesday, you have nothing else to do that will raise your light and need a distraction.

What they need to do is separate the modes so they don't have to balance both at the same time, like the community has been SCREAMING at them to do since launch and I can't wait to see them fuck it it up and not do so in D3. They can tie some sort of progression system into into it that benefits the pve side, but dropping it all together I think is silly.

Bungie can't produce enough content with 800 people, so axing the mode that has people playing for hundreds of hours on the same handful of maps will only make that more obvious.

 

[Kittens McMittens]

I like that Paul Tassi writes about Destiny, but he consistently has the worst takes on the game from any publication I read. He recently had an article complaining about enhancement cores where he moaned about not having enough cores to upgrade his weapons every time he got a new drop a few points higher. Like, that's not at all how you should be upgrading your weapons!

 

[R dott B]

That would be nice.

 

[Deleted member 437]

Hmmm, a Destiny darkzone could be really interesting though........

 

[Captain of Outer Space]

That would be a big disappointment for me since it's one of the few games I'm halfway decent at for multiplayer.

 

[Arsene no Kiseki]

I'd drop it.

I love Destiny but I spent a stupid amount of time in the Crucible.

 

[Slammin_Hammon]

Instead of ditching it they should just find a team of people that are either more passionate or more capable to manage the crucible. Throughout Destiny's life crucible has felt overlooked.

 

[.exe]

The PvP in Destiny has poor balance because they never treated PvE and PvP separately. If they actually treated PvP as a separate thing with its own specific balancing and such, it would be a fair more enjoyable experience. PvE makes PvP unbalanced, and then they nerf gear for PvP which also nerfs for PvE. PvE and PvP being tied together both negatively impact each other. I don't think it is likely that they'll ever want to split them up balance-wise, and I'd much rather they kill PvP entirely and give me more PvE content instead of continuing to push PvP as part of the game.

I would say it is likely that a fair amount of people do PvP not of fun but necessity. The game arbitrary forces you into that content to gear up from dailies/weeklies and quests. Exotic-forced PvP quests are some of the worst parts of Destiny 2.

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I dunno. There are guns that are somewhat better than others, but ultimately PvP is about skill more than anything. I don't recall PvP in D2 being completely broken outside of laser tag week. There are metas, but that's what it's like for every competitive game.

The biggest issue with its PvP has been matchmaking (team balancing) being utter shite.

 

[Bold One]

The PvP in Destiny has poor balance because they never treated PvE and PvP separately. If they actually treated PvP as a separate thing with its own specific balancing and such, it would be a fair more enjoyable experience. PvE makes PvP unbalanced, and then they nerf gear for PvP which also nerfs for PvE. PvE and PvP being tied together both negatively impact each other. I don't think it is likely that they'll ever want to split them up balance-wise, and I'd much rather they kill PvP entirely and give me more PvE content instead of continuing to push PvP as part of the game.

I would say it is likely that a fair amount of people do PvP not of fun but necessity. The game arbitrary forces you into that content to gear up from dailies/weeklies and quests. Exotic-forced PvP quests are some of the worst parts of Destiny 2.

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Actually a fair few people actually enjoy the PVP. Fighting against other guardians presents a better challenge than dumb aliens who bum-rush you

 

[Cenauru]

Bungie can barely handle the PvP as it is right now. With all the rumors of Destiny 3 going full RPG, it would be a total shitshow.

Also we've seem PvE weapons and classes butchered because it was OP in PvP, and vice versa. Bungie has shown they do not know how to handle both PvE and PvP at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 30681]

The PvP in Destiny has poor balance because they never treated PvE and PvP separately. If they actually treated PvP as a separate thing with its own specific balancing and such, it would be a fair more enjoyable experience. PvE makes PvP unbalanced, and then they nerf gear for PvP which also nerfs for PvE. PvE and PvP being tied together both negatively impact each other. I don't think it is likely that they'll ever want to split them up balance-wise, and I'd much rather they kill PvP entirely and give me more PvE content instead of continuing to push PvP as part of the game.

I would say it is likely that a fair amount of people do PvP not of fun but necessity. The game arbitrary forces you into that content to gear up from dailies/weeklies and quests. Exotic-forced PvP quests are some of the worst parts of Destiny 2.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. The 2 modes contradict each other in such a way that if a weapon is really powerful in PvE it would likely mean that the weapon in question is also extremely OP in PvP resulting in Bungie nerfing the gun for both modes. The other problem is the state of PvP in Destiny was always that Bungie would nerf an OP weapon and overnight a new OP weapon would rise to take it's place.

If they want to make a PvP mode that's balanced and fun they'd have to make it a separate thing from PvE.

 

[Hurting Bomb]

Big mistake, the fun is taking your new gear into the pvp arena!

 

[Truant]

World PVP is the only PVP I would be interested in, ala WoW or Division.

 

[Deleted member 8784]

The Crucible has never been properly balanced, it's a mess right now and it was badly received when they tried to balance it properly.

I'd understand their choice if it meant a good focus in the PvE space.

 

[The_Land]

Do it. If people want to play crucible Destiny 2 has like a billion maps now. More PvE sprinkled with a little PvP ala Gambit sounds amazing. Also this kind of lines up with that Destiny 3 leak from last week even though there was no mention of dropping crucible in that leak

 

[SweetNicole]

I completely agree with your end conclusion, because I have zero interest in PVP

But why do you say the bolded part? It's not hard for Bungie to completely separate the PVE/PVP abilities and balance

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Simply put, it is a lot of work to balance things separately like that. It isn't as easy as simply flipping some sort of switch. I don't imagine they want to dedicate or allocate more resources to a balance team to handle each mode separately. It'd make more sense for them to de-emphasize the balance overhead as much as possible so they can allocate resources to game content which is the thing they've struggled with the most, generally. Budget-wise, the perspective from managers is likely that it is better to spend more money developing content than it is spending more money balancing because content is generally has a direct correlation to more revenue from season pass, DLC, etc.

 

[Maximum Spider]

We really getting a 3rd Destiny already?

 

[MadMike]

I wouldn't complain about this. Destiny PvP is absolute trash. Even moreso now that you die instantly. But all they really need to do is stop balancing PvE around PvP. I don't imagine PvP actually takes much of a toll on their resources.

 

[Kawngi]

Would be fine by me. I think Destiny 2 has ok PvP, but I mostly only did it to earn rewards so I could do better in PvE. While Anthem ended up being a disappointment, one of the things that attracted me to it pre-release was that there was no PvP. Games end up having to balance around PvP, which ends up affecting PvE many times.

 

[PlantedUnicorn]

I completely agree with your end conclusion, because I have zero interest in PVP

But why do you say the bolded part? It's not hard for Bungie to completely separate the PVE/PVP abilities and balance

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The thing is its still hard for them to balance it. Nova Warp a subclass that was totally dominant in PVP is now totally useless in PVE cause they nerfed it.

 

[rocket]

I was under the impression that PvP is a big selling point of that game.

 

[Bold One]

I was under the impression that PvP is a big selling point of that game.

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It is and hence ludacris to even consider, simply separate the two,

 

[.exe]

Big mistake, the fun is taking your new gear into the pvp arena!

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Yup. That was one of the game's biggest draws for me.

 

[PhaZe 5]

The PvP in Destiny has poor balance because they never treated PvE and PvP separately. If they actually treated PvP as a separate thing with its own specific balancing and such, it would be a fair more enjoyable experience. PvE makes PvP unbalanced, and then they nerf gear for PvP which also nerfs for PvE. PvE and PvP being tied together both negatively impact each other. I don't think it is likely that they'll ever want to split them up balance-wise, and I'd much rather they kill PvP entirely and give me more PvE content instead of continuing to push PvP as part of the game.

I would say it is likely that a fair amount of people do PvP not of fun but necessity. The game arbitrary forces you into that content to gear up from dailies/weeklies and quests. Exotic-forced PvP quests are some of the worst parts of Destiny 2.

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This balancing has and does already take place. Bungie has the ability to tune PvE vs PvP damage numbers differently.

 

[Firima]

That giant sucking sound is the sound of Crucible addicts running back to Daddy 💦 Microsoft to play whatever Halo Infinite has in store.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I actually want more PvP. I'd like an arena mode, a BTB mode, and SRL back.

 

[PhaZe 5]

It is and hence ludacris to even consider, simply separate the two,

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But separate for what exactly? They already tune numbers, i.e. "bringing up these values in PVE to compensate".

I find a lot of the time people just want to blame PvP for certain things getting hit, or because they just don't like it in general. The power fantasy is completely in the hands of bungie and has very little to do with PvP as a barrier.