Forbes: Destiny 2’s ‘You Had To Be There’ Philosophy Is Turning Off Players

[janoGX]

I understand that Bungie can't keep too many activities without making the game a big bloat of memory that eats your HDD or SSD away, but yeah, it's becoming tiresome, I got into the first of 4 seasons and completed it, but every time it's grinding hard for weeks, and I want to play some other stuff, like MH, I need to get back in shape since I moved to PC, I want to play other games instead of spending hours on D2 every single time.

I hope they fix the problems with D3, for now, I will enter and do whatever I can and that's it, I need more time to play other stuff, and now I work as a freelance in translation, so I have a little less free time.

 

[Agent 47]

I dropped it during this season as the "you had to be there event" was just yet another horde mode and obscure puzzle that requires an insane time investment to complete.

 

[nihilence]

Is the campaign gutted? Or is the experience fully there once you trigger it?

 

[Van Bur3n]

i thought you were insane. That's well written.

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How could you say that. I've had so many moments of wisdom in between getting banned all of the time and over inflating my ego in the name of my superiority complex.

 

[OryxTheBakinKing]

I made the decision to walk away from the game until the next big entry hits and I'm much happier as a result.

I hope those of you who are struggling with what the game is right now take a break and walk away. Seriously, you will be so much happier!

 

[MJForum Poster]

Another day, another Paul Tassi article about Destiny.

My counterpoint: the rotation of the seasons feels like it's a good thing because something leaving that you may have gone bored with (Vex Offensive before, Sundial now, etc) if only because you don't feel like there's a ton you have to do, if you're the kind that has to do everything all the time. I do think the CoT should stick around at least a little longer, if not until the end of the season or the beginning of whatever end of season event will be happening (assuming Empyrian Foundation, which starts next week). I am genuinely not bothered by this.

The cycle is just endless with the game:
We want more to do! I'm bored! I'm going to stop playing!
-
We have too much to do! Its overwhelming! I'm going to stop playing!
-
Jesus the game file sizes are getting huge! My drive space!
-
Hey how come this doesn't stick around! My FOMO!


The game rewarding players who play continuously isn't a problem nor should it be looked at as one. If you're done, you're done. If you really want it, you should go after it. If you don't have time, well, sorry, I don't always have time either (this applies to a shitload of things IRL too).

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The solution to this is not limited time activities, it's re-purposing and updating activities that already exist. Since Warmind, every expansion/update has come with a variant on the "kill waves of enemies" activity. Escalation Protocol, Blind Well, Forges, Reckoning, Menagerie, Altars of Sorrow, Vex Offensive, Sundial. The only reason to go back to these activities after the next one drops is when Bungie puts a requirement in a quest step or bounty that takes you there. Nobody is playing Reckoning anymore. Blind Well was popular during Year 2 but is a ghost town these days.

Maybe instead of reinventing the wheel every season, they just go back and update some of these? New rewards, new bosses, new mechanics, etc.?

 

[Strangelove_77]

Dont other online games do that shit too? Events that come and go and you miss out on items and loot? Whats the difference with Destiny 2 doing it?
I also never felt rushed by the season pass. I wouldn't even mind if it went to 150 or something. Then again, I used to be a hardcore player.

BUT Eververse is complete shit. Bright Dust is incredibly hard to earn, you cant even get most of the stuff because it's silver only and yeah, they hold shit back that in Destiny 1 or early Destiny 2 for Eververse that would have been dropped during a raid or any other difficult activity. Its so incredibly obvious.
Raid shit just isn't as cool or popular as it used to be. The weapons and armor aren't special anymore. I don't know if people still do it, but farming raids seems nonexistent nowadays. I don't know anyone who does it to get all the loot.
Bungie doesn't give a shit about PvP anymore it feels like.
Exotic armor is creatively bankrupt. They're often not exotic in any way. At least not in a desirable way.
The ships and scooters look boring, even the exotic ones.
Reskinned armor out the ass.
I don't think its something even a new beefy expansion can fix. It's just...boring to play. It needs something else. But I have no idea what.

 

[Asbsand]

Hardcore players seem to not be happy either with this. The content is mostly shallow and pointlessly grindy. The event was neat but it wasn't something that most players could help solve other than data collection.

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This is why I quit early in Forsaken. Third time I've quit on Destiny and probably the last. I went back knowing that I was giving them another chance to burn me like with 2014 Destiny 1, but it happened anyway, and it's just not improving because tbh I don't even know how many of their developers are that passionate about creating this stuff anymore. It must be a total nuisance to just create more and more and more for one kind of video game for years and years.

I suppose RuneScape and WoW beg to differ. Somehow it just hasn't worked out that well for a game that's about the instant gratification of shooting anything that moves. I wonder why /s

 

[Deleted member 39374]

The game basically wants you to treat it like a part time job, because it's marketed to streamers and "content creators". There's a pretty insane time commitment expectation if you want to really handle the endgame, which is lame but par for the course with MMOs right?

I've never gotten FOMO, playing casually solo is enjoyable and I mostly keep up with whatever the meta-of-the-week is at the time. I know that whenever I log on there will be something to do or some exotic or gear or quest to chase. There's no point in being fixated on one piece of content when you know it'll be worthless and trumped by something more novel/popular a few weeks later

 

[Bold One]

I hoarded so much bright dust.

I'm not Destiny rich, but I can't believe you guys arent good little savers like me.

 

[Strangelove_77]

I made the decision to walk away from the game until the next big entry hits and I'm much happier as a result.

I hope those of you who are struggling with what the game is right now take a break and walk away. Seriously, you will be so much happier!

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My problem is that I use it to listen to podcasts. I cant find a nearly as good podcast game. Most games just aren't as repeatable. They don't have the length nor the endgame replayablility. Ive played Borderlands 2 way too many times by now.

 

[DNAbro]

Is the campaign gutted? Or is the experience fully there once you trigger it?

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Nor really but the current story will also seemingly go away like last season. The actual campaign missions are still there. Like last season was a story in the loosest sense, which is now gone. They are planning to make the story "living" by removing portions of it in a seasonal basis.

 

[Landford]

The definition of what is happening right now in Destiny is that they are trying to recreate the organic feeling of nostalgia for amazing content in the past with time gated (damm Vex!) content in the present. But no one is going to remember that Vex Offense activity 2 days after it was gone because it sucked.

 

[BizzyBum]

FOMO is just something you have to deal with if you play multiple online games.

Every dev with these types of gaas or online focused games have their own events, battle passes, loot boxes, limited time gear, etc. that unless you dedicate your time to a single game (and even then the grind might be too much to acquire everything) you're just always going to be "missing out" on things.

I don't really blame the devs. Everyone is vying for your money and attention, so everyone is going to employ these tactics to get a hook in as many people as possible to keep them sticking around.

 

[Jerm411]

Dont other online games do that shit too? Events that come and go and you miss out on items and loot? Whats the difference with Destiny 2 doing it?
I also never felt rushed by the season pass. I wouldn't even mind if it went to 150 or something. Then again, I used to be a hardcore player.

BUT Eververse is complete shit. Bright Dust is incredibly hard to earn, you cant even get most of the stuff because it's silver only and yeah, they hold shit back that in Destiny 1 or early Destiny 2 for Eververse that would have been dropped during a raid or any other difficult activity. Its so incredibly obvious.
Raid shit just isn't as cool or popular as it used to be. The weapons and armor aren't special anymore. I don't know if people still do it, but farming raids seems nonexistent nowadays. I don't know anyone who does it to get all the loot.
Bungie doesn't give a shit about PvP anymore it feels like.
Exotic armor is creatively bankrupt. They're often not exotic in any way. At least not in a desirable way.
The ships and scooters look boring, even the exotic ones.
Reskinned armor out the ass.
I don't think its something even a new beefy expansion can fix. It's just...boring to play. It needs something else. But I have no idea what.

Click to shrink...

One thing that completely drives me nuts ties in with Exotic Armor and maybe I'm just crazy but I'd love for there to be a way to equip multiple Exotic pieces and you only gain the cosmetic look of any pieces out of your 1 "main" piece...if that makes sense.

I don't know how they'd do this but I think it'd go a long way in differentiating players even more and maybe give Exotics more of a use outside of "grind for it, use it for a little while, and vault it".

Just stuff like that would keep me more engaged I think.

 

[DNAbro]

The definition of what is happening right now in Destiny is that they are trying to recreate the organic feeling of nostalgia for amazing content in the past with time gated (damm Vex!) content in the present. But no one is going to remember that Vex Offense activity 2 days after it was gone because it sucked.

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It sure is actively being remembered as a thing that sucked ass.

 

[-PXG-]

Half assed, uncompelling content and Eververse being shoved up my ass is what is making me zone out.

 

[pillowtalk]

Warframe is one of the few games that are good about this. The login bonuses are daily, but simply tied to the number of days you login, so it never resets. So you can skip a few days or go a while without playing and there's no penalty.

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It doesn't reset anymore? I remember it did for a few years, and people complained about it a lot.

 

[MJForum Poster]

My problem is that I use it to listen to podcasts. I cant find a nearly as good podcast game. Most games just aren't as repeatable. They don't have the length nor the endgame replayablility. Ive played Borderlands 2 way too many times by now.

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Slay the Spire. I just started using that as a podcast game and it's amazing.

 

[Dphex]

This kind of game design is an ultra middle finger to anyone who has responsibilities outside of gaming. Who are they building this for, streamers and college kids?

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from the people i´ve met in the game i couldn´t exactly say that this notion is wrong...

and besides that.. "oh you didn´t grind your ass off the last weeks? no problem, get a level boost now to keep going in the hamster wheel..
isn´t that awesome?" seriously, this kind of game is sooooo boring

 

[Ambient80]

I don't get the uproar about this. People complain that the seasonal content is shit (because it is), then they also complain about it going away. Is literally anyone actually upset that they can't play Vex Offensive of all things, anymore?

The real problem with Destiny 2 right now isn't FOMO, it's that the content just actually sucks.

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Maybe not VO specifically, but you also can't get the weapons from it any more, nor can you get the Undying title. After this season you won't be able to get the S-14 weapons, most likely, because the obelisks and Sundial will be gone. Severely really nice guns will be gone presumably forever for no real reason.

 

[Zocano]

Were they though.

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Yep.

Fun quirky encounter design, what's that?

 

[janoGX]

Maybe not VO specifically, but you also can't get the weapons from it any more, nor can you get the Undying title. After this season you won't be able to get the S-14 weapons, most likely, because the obelisks and Sundial will be gone. Severely really nice guns will be gone presumably forever for no real reason.

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They said they will be back as vendor weapons from Banshee but it will take 2 seasons after they've been retired.

 

[loneliestwizard]

The game basically wants you to treat it like a part time job, because it's marketed to streamers and "content creators". There's a pretty insane time commitment expectation if you want to really handle the endgame, which is lame but par for the course with MMOs right?

Click to shrink...

Oddly, this is less true now that at any other point in the life of Destiny. Power Level barely matters (and increases between seasons are tiny now). There is no endgame to speak of at this point beyond 980 Nightfalls & the grind for the seasonal title & triumphs. Which is not interesting in the least.

 

[Strangelove_77]

One thing that completely drives me nuts ties in with Exotic Armor and maybe I'm just crazy but I'd love for there to be a way to equip multiple Exotic pieces and you only gain the cosmetic look of any pieces out of your 1 "main" piece...if that makes sense.

I don't know how they'd do this but I think it'd go a long way in differentiating players even more and maybe give Exotics more of a use outside of "grind for it, use it for a little while, and vault it".

Just stuff like that would keep me more engaged I think.

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I want complete transmogrification like Diablo 3. Every item in the game can have a skin from loot you already own.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

The article rings true for me. I had even gotten the deluxe expansion with the battle passes or whatever when it launched and just can't be bothered anymore. The moment to moment gameplay is fun but there are more rewarding games out there. I don't think I'm coming back to Destiny in a meaningful way unless the FOMO shit goes away, cross-play becomes a thing, and a large enough group of friends gets back into it for it to be worthwhile.

 

[Jerm411]

I want complete transmogrification like Diablo 3. Every item in the game can have a skin from loot you already own.

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That's exactly what I'm talking about...you summed it up a lot better LOL.

No reason at all it shouldn't be like this.

 

[Athrum]

I don't like games that pressure me to play them.
I have 900h on Destiny and 700h on Destiny 2 under my belt, I really like the game, but after they went F2P, introduced this "FOMO" content and the battlepass I was hard out.

 

[John Rabbit]

This is exactly the nail on the head. They've fucking locked lore behind a time-gated event. That was two weeks long. That we didn't even know was time-gated until a week had elapsed.

I love the ever-loving shit out of Destiny 2 but Season of Dawn has been an absolute snoozefest. If I wasn't active in a clan I'd have fallen off weeks ago like I did with Season of the Drifter.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

jesus christ, i'm glad i'm not addicted to this bs.

this is a crime and the gaming community should rise against this kind of game.

I got anxiety just by reading the report

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Drama much? FFS these replies...

The solution to this is not limited time activities, it's re-purposing and updating activities that already exist. Since Warmind, every expansion/update has come with a variant on the "kill waves of enemies" activity. Escalation Protocol, Blind Well, Forges, Reckoning, Menagerie, Altars of Sorrow, Vex Offensive, Sundial. The only reason to go back to these activities after the next one drops is when Bungie puts a requirement in a quest step or bounty that takes you there. Nobody is playing Reckoning anymore. Blind Well was popular during Year 2 but is a ghost town these days.

Maybe instead of reinventing the wheel every season, they just go back and update some of these? New rewards, new bosses, new mechanics, etc.?

Click to shrink...

They tried that and it wasn't sustainable. It was barely able to happen when they were still with ActiBlizz and had access to other resources to help get things out. This was a direct response to the way they did things prior and their new status as an independent developer. They will also likely pivot after this, in some fashion (that people will bemoan because the grass is always greener) if they see actual numbers, not shitty Forbes contributor articles based on reddit outcries, that show it's not working.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

I just play it for pure fun now (and just playing Crucible or messing around in a planet is still fun for me). I don't even begin to worry about god rolls or maximizing whatever. You can't manage that stuff unless you practically make this game your full time career. It's not worth it.

 

[Novocaine]

Good. The design philosophy which is centered around having to log in continously as opposed to your own pace needs to die in a fire as soon as possible. If I can't get the same content playing 14 hours every 2 weekends as opposed to 1 hour every day, then it's clearly just a money-making scheme that fucks over players for reasons.

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You're exaggerating. I usually play 1-2 hours a day (if at all) and I've done everything in this season that's currently out.

 

[jett]

Bungie is the kind of team that proudly boasts how they use behavioral psychology to make players addicted to the game.

I'm glad I quit Destiny years ago.

 

[Orion117]

The definition of what is happening right now in Destiny is that they are trying to recreate the organic feeling of nostalgia for amazing content in the past with time gated (damm Vex!) content in the present. But no one is going to remember that Vex Offense activity 2 days after it was gone because it sucked.

Click to shrink...

Yeah i feel like it is a quality problem more than anything. I have only played the latest season for once a week at max. And I have done everything this season has to offer. But after i run the activities once, i just dont see the reason to do it again. There is nothing interesting in the loot that will make me change up my loadout. So i just do them once for triumph and dip out till next content drop.

 

[DNAbro]

Drama much? FFS these replies...


They tried that and it wasn't sustainable. It was barely able to happen when they were still with ActiBlizz and had access to other resources to help get things out. This was a direct response to the way they did things prior and their new status as an independent developer. They will also likely pivot after this, in some fashion (that people will bemoan because the grass is always greener) if they see actual numbers, not shitty Forbes contributor articles based on reddit outcries, that show it's not working.

Click to shrink...

We only have speculation and personal accounts but I would not be surprised if the player count is down. Streamers are definitely playing it less, even as they add new content. This feels like a repeat of Y1 D2 in fan outcry. And we were right and then they fixed a lot.

 

[KarmaCow]

They tried that and it wasn't sustainable. It was barely able to happen when they were still with ActiBlizz and had access to other resources to help get things out. This was a direct response to the way they did things prior and their new status as an independent developer. They will also likely pivot after this, in some fashion (that people will bemoan because the grass is always greener) if they see actual numbers, not shitty Forbes contributor articles based on reddit outcries, that show it's not working.

Click to shrink...

When have they gone back to significantly update older activities? Reckoning got the most updates after the fact but they were just balance tweaks after they reworked supers.

 

[Dphex]

Half assed, uncompelling content and Eververse being shoved up my ass is what is making me zone out.

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when you are saying this..i know enough already

 

[Ramirez]

There hasn't been a single thing worthy of "you had to be there" since they said that line.

For me, the game has more of a problem with lacking any kind of challenge. All activities are steam rolls outside of stuff that requires matchmaking. They need to strike a better balance there. Also, Eververse sucks, but that's not going any where unless they get another publisher to back them.

 

[SRTtoZ]

This kind of game design is an ultra middle finger to anyone who has responsibilities outside of gaming. Who are they building this for, streamers and college kids?

To be fair, I also adopt a "not everything has to be made for me" life philosophy, so I just don't play Destiny 2 anymore. Not because I hate it, but because they have indicated with their design choices that I'm not an interesting customer to keep on board.

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To be fair people asked for this. D2 originally was designed to hop in, do your stuff for the week, get your powerful engrams and hop out. People hated it because people wanted incentive to play the game so they changed it. I like it better this way.

 

[Dphex]

There hasn't been a single thing worthy of "you had to be there" since they said that line.

For me, the game has more of a problem with lacking any kind of challenge. All activities are steam rolls outside of stuff that requires matchmaking. They need to strike a better balance there. Also, Eververse sucks, but that's not going any where unless they get another publisher to back them.

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it is like i´ve said...when making such a game you need "raid a to earn the gear for raid b and then we have an optional thing if you earned the b loot"

what is the point of getting/grinding gear when it is not really needed?

 

[Ishmae1]

I have to say I finally spent $$ on that great solar Gunslinger finisher. Since there was no way to get that without getting additional silver, I got the knife toss idle as well.

Last season, I soloed to 100, mostly on one character. This season I think I made it to 18 or so and dropped out. There weren't enough incentives for a typically solo player like myself to stick with it, and the cosmetic rewards seemed even less this season than last.

Sundial was fun however and I liked the idea of linking and then unlocking levels of reward and weapon type at each planet. The sheer amount of towers and levels however became quickly overwhelming in practice (for me), to a point that I didn't think I'd be able to keep up with it plus getting to L100, as there felt as if there was a lack of great synergy between pursuing those goals due to the limited quests to level the towers and myself at the same time.

As an ongoing experiment I'm happy with what Bungie is doing however. I don't think I'll be in for next season, but that's just because of my play time habits. If they keep trying and taking the good ideas forward, everything will just get better every season.

 

[panda-zebra]

FOMO seasonal stuff leaves me cold. Give me a new big expansion and lots of levels to grind out, giving access to the hardest or most rewarding content and I'm happy to race to it. Catching up from the base game was fun. Shadowkeep came right after I was done with that and was more of the same with plenty of good old fashioned level grinding that I'm not at all ashamed to admit I fucking love. These seasons though, they offer someone like me nothing worthwhile, I feel like saying that OK, I've bought them so I will pay them down the road, only that's not possible anymore it'll all be gone. And the big thing is I'm not feeling compelled to stick with it anyway, I'm OK with it, there's no fear, missing out is just what will happen... and that's a bit sad really.

 

[RecRoulette]

Writing was on the wall when they changed the Ghost's VO without any explanation. /s

Seriously though, it doesn't feel like the FOMO is the problem (there are way too many games with this "problem" right now), just the actual content that is in there.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

We only have speculation and personal accounts but I would not be surprised if the player count is down. Streamers are definitely playing it less, even as they add new content. This feels like a repeat of Y1 D2 in fan outcry. And we were right and then they fixed a lot.

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Fixed a lot by adding random rolls back. Then people went back to bitching about RNG not handing them a roll of a gun they want. Again, no pleasing fans or, I guess, "fans" since most of the critiques, as Van Bur3n says, aren't very well placed or are by people who play the game casually (which isn't a bad thing) and just parrot bullshit others are spewing.

When have they gone back to significantly update older activities? Reckoning got the most updates after the fact but they were just balance tweaks after they reworked supers.

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D1 they brought back EVERY earlier raid to the end game levels. They made changes to weapons and armor from them. We've not gotten anything particularly significant in D2, yet, but they've changed quest lines to make them easier or at least less mind-numbing. Reckoning got changes but it was almost always shit because of how people played it like glass cannons.

I do, for the record, see issues. They're everywhere. A lot of them are with PvP (which I am, admittedly, mostly trash at most of the time). The Sorrows Harbor events are awful most of the time because people don't do them right, but even if they do shit breaks anyway and you still fail. There are things not well-explained like the pass the ball mechanic that people still insist they get popups for the first time it happens, yet some of us have NEVER seen them. A better in-game LFG for raids and higher tiered Nightfalls. The ability to solo queue for strikes. All of these things would make it better, but there are other issues at play.

 

[Deleted member 4413]

Yep. Definitely contributed to me quitting. That and the fact it's a F2P game now and feels like it. They rely heavily on the cash shop.

 

[DNAbro]

Writing was on the wall when they changed the Ghost's VO without any explanation. /s

Seriously though, it doesn't feel like the FOMO is the problem (there are way too many games with this "problem" right now), just the actual content that is in there.

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It's the same issue. The FOMO is the reason they want you to play subpar content. "Oh you don't like the activity, well all the limited time rewards and titles associated with it are going away in 1 month from now. Do you feel like playing now?" If the content was good enough to stand in its own without the driving factor of FOMO it would be fine.

 

[Bold One]

They just can't keep adding stuff to the game - while not elegant a solution, some things just have to leave the pool.

I dont enyy them.

 

[Dphex]

Yep. Definitely contributed to me quitting. That and the fact it's a F2P game now and feels like it. They rely heavily on the cash shop.

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wasn´t that the case since D2 release?

 

[EloquentM]

Bungie is the kind of team that proudly boasts how they use behavioral psychology to make players addicted to the game.

I'm glad I quit Destiny years ago.

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Lol source?

 

[DNAbro]

wasn´t that the case since D2 release?

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They made it better in Forsaken and then got bad again with Shadowkeep.