That was DmC's biggest problem. I'm just glad they back downed the back down and decided to do a DMC5.
Capcom during the PS360 era is just kinda sad. They had some good games, but a bunch of it is all just disappointment.
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For all the hate DmC gets, can we all agree this particular concept was Amazing? (Spoilers)
- Thread starter SnatcherHunter
- Start date
Capcom during the PS360 era is just kinda sad. They had some good games, but a bunch of it is all just disappointment.
That comparison does anything but make me want to see Spider-Verse.
Sort of. It faced a lot of specific challenges at the time. It was Capcom's first HD game in development, and the first on MT Framework. As such the team was unprepared when the workload ended up being twice what they were previously used to. They also struggled to develop for the PS3 because of the Cell processor. And the Xbox 360 port was announced after development was already began, which added 50% more to their work load, although it was easier to develop for than the PS3.
So yeah, development faced a few challenges, although much of it wasn't unique to them or to Capcom games, so it's hard to say if it had any influence on the decision to reboot. I think the most important factor was sales. Despite it being the best-selling game in the series and beating sales projections, they still publicly expressed disappointment about its sales when they announced DmC. They probably expected it to sell even more because of the 360 version, the series' renewed popularity post-DMC3, and the marketing push with the anime and all that. But in the end, we don't fully know so we can only guess.
OK, your statement about "creative genius" confuses me then.
The fanbase's response to DmC is probably the most toxic thing I've seen in video games that wasn't blatant sexism/racism/homophobia.
Personally I don't get much pleasure out of watching Dante surf on a rocket and scream "woohoo!" but I can see how those who did would be let down by the change in direction.
I'd take a sequel to DmC over more DMC any day of the week.
Personally I don't get much pleasure out of watching Dante surf on a rocket and scream "woohoo!" but I can see how those who did would be let down by the change in direction.
I'd take a sequel to DmC over more DMC any day of the week.
Where were you when Metroid Prime: Federation Force was announced?
Yes it's better than DMC 4 certainly, but among the best in the industry? The biggest thing Ninja Theory added was bog standard platforming that was really held together by the visual design rather than anything gameplay wise, which to be fair is certainly better than DMC 4's Dice minigames and backtracking. However, among the best? In a world where Resident Evil 2002, Resident Evil 4, Dark Souls, Mario games in general, Half Life 1/2, Metroid Prime, 2D Metroid, Zelda, Portal, Hitman, Dead Space, Deus Ex, Thief, Metal Gear Solid, etc had already long been out? Not even close. It's a bunch of pretty hallways combined with rather standard platforming mechanics.
Lmao
Speaking of the former...
I'm still shocked how NT got 0 flack for their obvious homophobia and that some of their fans even go beyond to defend it.
Yup. It's literally a case of pushing a button to deactivate the boss, then just wail on him while he sits there and does nothing then rinse and repeat. Nice flashy effects though.
OP
OP
It was just a reference to the DMC series. None of the other games executed effects like this. They also have a whole bridge where the camera flips again and you literally walk upside down. It was just cool.
The name in DmC just feels like brand recognition. The plot was so far removed from the original that any reference to the originals feels like it was forced in amongst an original plot that could have stood as its own game.
I remain convinced that Ninja Theory had the idea for this game but no publisher would pick it up, and Capcom gave them the chance to use the DMC name with it.
I remain convinced that Ninja Theory had the idea for this game but no publisher would pick it up, and Capcom gave them the chance to use the DMC name with it.
This much Wrong condensed into a single post may very well threaten the fabric of reality.
I'd hardly call DmC "creative genius" next to DMC1-4. A step up in certain artistic elements, sure, but "genius" is a loaded word that doesn't fit what you're talking about.
Level design in this game was pretty fucking amazing. Ninja Theory excels in this regard. For any of this game's shortcomings, level and scenario design was not one of them.
OP
OP
Lmao
Speaking of the former...
I'm still shocked how NT got 0 flack for their obvious homophobia and that some of their fans even go beyond to defend it.
Sure, fuck NT, but let's not act like there was any genuine concern coming at them from the DMC fanbase.
DmC wasnt a COMPLETE shitfire of a game. It just was nowhere near the level of comfortable yet complex playability a Japanese developed character action game provides. Especially a Devil May Cry. It's probably the best western character action game tho. I used to use bloody palace mode to warm myself up before I played street fighter. It's an entertaining game, the art style is pretty cool, at the end of the day it counts as a Devil May Cry and it wouldn't be what it was if it wasn't. There's just certain issues that hold it back from really being all that.
Game is great, and you can see that the DMC5 director is taking heavy inspirations from it. All the way from how Nero looks, to how the level designed/structured, the camera pov, and the 'air' combat.
The original had problems with the color coded enemies, but the DE version fixed it and it's a solid action game. It's a shame the game didn't receive a fair shot because people couldn't get over that it's a reboot and Dante looks different. It's my second favorite DMC game after 3.
The original had problems with the color coded enemies, but the DE version fixed it and it's a solid action game. It's a shame the game didn't receive a fair shot because people couldn't get over that it's a reboot and Dante looks different. It's my second favorite DMC game after 3.
Loved this game. Art direction, level design, combat, etc. Also I really like Dante? Sure he's a shithead punk but that's intentional? Like, the demons in this games world are "the man" and that's why Dante is so sophomoric.
I played it for the first time a few months ago and thought the story wasn't as horrible as some people say. I do feel like Ninja Theory did their best to make a good game. I don't like it as much as DMC3 or 4, but the Definitive Edition is good in it's own right.
Hell no, the air combat takes no inspiration from DmC. DmC's air combat was so base level self service with the tools they gave you to stay in the air forever. Pulling yourself to the enemy/enemy to you is an entirely different gimmick that makes Donte a tweaked Nero w/ devil arms. W/ DMC5 taying in the air with Nero would be close to the same with enemy step, or maybe snatch hit snatch hit. DANTE is a different game altogether because now it becomes about what you know how to string together and how comfortable you are with enemy step. Vs whip gimmick I can use forever
Why, just because if someone's opinion? I hope this is sarcasm
I don't think you're supposed to take it literal.
Nah. But trying to get someone banned for no good reason should be a bannable offense within itself.
I don't see how. They're voicing their opinion and it's not entirely wrong. I can see where the comparison is going.
Tell me about it.
ON-Topic: I loved DmC for what it was. Just listening to that Noisia track makes me want to go back and replay the game. Some of you in this thread are so anal about the Japanese way of game design and past DMC installments, that it blinds you from enjoying two different types of games despite sharing the name "DMC". Jeez
Nothing in the combat was inspired by DmC thats just wishful thinking but I do agree it is taking some inspiration for sure like the AWESOME slow mo final hit and the art style for sure. But heavy inspiration is not the case when the combat and tone of the game is very much old school DMC but much more refined.
case for misguided expectations more than low sales, also Itsuno wanted to try something else, his dream open world game.
it was, but they had problems because it was the teams first HD game, they werent used to development and throwed a lot of ideas to start over. dmc 4 still was the best selling game of the series, and got good reviews at the time. problem is they looked at GoW and wanted that kind of sales, releasing a product many fans didnt ask for, in the end DmC was a good game but just as divisive.
Thank you.
And thank you.
The weirdest part of it all is the thread title. If it was "I think this concept is amazing", I'd simply raise an eyebrow and agree to disagree, but to word it as "can we all, haters included, agree that this concept is amazing?" is so surreally, profoundly out of touch with reality I can't wrap my head around it.
DmC is a game with great visual design but bad to okay everything else. If I had to sum up the entire game with a single word I would say DmC is "serviceable" and nothing more. If it was a game not named DmC as an original series it might have garnered more sympathy, but altogether it just feels really derivative in comparison to other releases and as it stands there's no real reason to replay it when DMC3SE/DMC4SE/Bayonetta1-2/Wonderful101/MGR currently exist.
Agreed. I had more fun navigating the world in this than any other DMC game. It's beautiful and made for some impressive set pieces.
I found the button layout awful. If the Stance System worked as a toggle, I would be less critical, but as it stands holding L2, R1 (lock on), melee button and the occasional L1 to dodge screwed with my brain quite a bit and I couldn't quite get a handle on the combat. Arguably I'm too used to regular DMC controls so that might be a personal gripe.
Found most of the levels to be far too gaudy and headache-inducing. You can say the game was colourful all you want, but the intense orange and blue of that nightclub level made me want to get through it as quickly as possible. I can appreciate the concept sure, but that doesn't mean much if I found the execution poor. Reverse World was cool though. That's a great concept-to-execution.
Found most of the levels to be far too gaudy and headache-inducing. You can say the game was colourful all you want, but the intense orange and blue of that nightclub level made me want to get through it as quickly as possible. I can appreciate the concept sure, but that doesn't mean much if I found the execution poor. Reverse World was cool though. That's a great concept-to-execution.
This. It's fine if you don't like NT or the direction DmC, but stop the concern trolling, please.
I feel like you guys are falsly equating "linearity"="bad". Not all but most of the games you listed, Crimson, have in common that they give you various degrees of freedom in how to approach (or not to approach) a situation. Certainly, all of these games have amazing level design. But almost all of them are fundamentally different to how a level for a linear character action game would be designed.
When I said it's among the best in the industry, I was saying that in the context of its genre. I think that you can absolutely make an argument that this among the, or even THE, character action game(s) with the best level design overall. The very first level is an incredibly inventive funfair, where you can throw and combo enemies into large gears after entering the backstage areas, with the gears also functioning as the a more natural version of the classic Demon Walls. The second level then gives you a lot more freedom, as you have to explore a pretty big mansion with quite a few secrets hidden away, while you at the same time keep travelling into another dimension with light platforming segments with incredible visual design. This area also functions as a tutorial, showing you that your platform skills actually allow you to manipulate the level itself, creating platforms. NT also managed to achieve the small miracle of making an actually interesting warehouse level with the warehouse exploding into a stasis full of broken shelves and platforms, which builds upon the previous tutorials as the movement here is not only more free-form, as there are various ways through the level, but it also gets combined with the combat system. A little later in the level you fight a pretty huge gauntlet of tough enemies, but the room is circular with a huge, fleshy pillar in the middle, allowing you to smartly use your platforming moves to quickly move around it, separating groups of enemies from each other and using the level to your advantage. Then comes the huge vent area where the floor changes to turn into the ceiling, back to the floor etc., introducing another element (the section is timed) to the platforming, while you also have to fight at the same time.
This is all before we even really talk about the best ideas this game had, most of all the Upside-Down-level the OP was talking about, of course. DmC constantly uses its level design to change up the combat arenas in small, inteligent ways, to give you new tools and opportunities to mix and match (and discover) your abilities, while also constantly throwing new visual concepts and ideas at you.
Meanwhile, many amazing games in the character action genre are built upon amazing combat systems that often make you walk through boring vistas and little in terms of level design that actually enhances or changes the core experience. Instead, many times, you get pretty bad mini games like the automatic "Run down this tower and evade the missiles"-part in Metal Gear Rising (which is my favorite Character Action game of all time, before someone jumps on me for "hating" on it or anything) or the whole Missile-part in Bayonetta (also: so, so, so many parts in W101).
I feel like hardcore fans often tend to ignore anything but the core combat mechanics when judging a game in the character action genre. So if I can't spend 100 hours with a combat system and still find new tricks, then that game is, pretty much by default, a failure compared to the games in the genre that do exactly that. And, certainly, the combat system is the most important part. But, as with every other genres, things like the level design is important, too. Hardcore players basically just need any old arena-styled Tower to hone their combat skills, and that's fine. But most people buying these games wil probably only play through the campaign once and if that campaign is lacking and failing to really utilize the deep mechanics of a combat system or even keeps you from enjoying them by implementing terrible box puzzle, boss gauntlets or even making you run through most of the same game again, then that is certainly worth noting and can, in combination, even turn you off of a fundamentally great combat engine.
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Urgh, again with the Bob Barbas.
That is the ultimate spectacle over substance boss fight ever, the exact same thing I hate about western action boss fights- hit three buttons and just wail on a helpless boss.
That is the ultimate spectacle over substance boss fight ever, the exact same thing I hate about western action boss fights- hit three buttons and just wail on a helpless boss.
So literally what you're doing right now, as opposed to the post you quoted which was simply hyperbole.
I absolutely agree with this. All of these things combined to make a great game.
Not sure what the point of linking those tweets was; they only prove the point of the person they were being used to respond to.
It's a little disingenuous to claim that DMC fans didn't have legitimate concerns. Right off the bat people were skeptical of Heavenly Sword and Enslaved's developers being in charge of Devil May Cry, and with good reason (even if DmC turned out better than its pedigree might have suggested).