For all the awful shit of the last few years, it’s really cool and good that remote work suddenly became widely normalized

ToddBonzalez · Jul 2, 2022

After reflecting on all the awfulness of recent years, I feel like WFH becoming suddenly, widely normalized is a really positive step forward for society and not something that likely would have happened for decades and decades at least had the pandemic not happened. It's the extremely rare case where our capitalist masters' grip on us loosened slightly.

No commutes, No boss over your shoulder, more job opportunities since being within driving distance of an office isn't required anymore, more time to spend with family and pets, etc. it's just an obviously good thing. And with the Roe overturn, having more freedom to choose your state of residence is more important than ever.

RomanticHeroX · Jul 2, 2022

I know many people here who are able to take advantage of it think this way, but WFH has only been an option for those in certain industries, and largely only those who are relatively high income. Your nurses, grocery clerks, teachers, fast food workers and many others are entirely unaffected.

Elfgore · Jul 2, 2022

Eh, I don't have high hopes for that sticking around. It will be higher than before, but companies don't like giving up power. Some companies will tell people too come back in at some point and fire them if they don't.

Could just be some recent events at my employer making me feel a certain way.

John Rabbit · Jul 2, 2022

RomanticHeroX said:
I know many people here who are able to take advantage of it think this way, but WFH has only been an option for those in certain industries, and largely only those who are relatively high income. Your nurses, grocery clerks, teachers, fast food workers and many others are entirely unaffected.

There is no feasible version of remote work for those jobs though. If remote is possible in a given field/industry it should continue to be a regular thing.

Senator Toadstool · Jul 2, 2022

*****If your white collar and in tech, legal, administrative, which lets you

John Rabbit said:
There is no feasible version of remote work for those jobs though. If remote is possible in a given field/industry it should continue to be a regular thing.

it won't be if the workers don't have leverage which tech workers do. real estate money is gonna be pushing people back into downtowns

Protoman200X · Jul 2, 2022

In the case for my line of work, most of the animation studios that I've worked for are trying to implement a hybrid system, where employees have the option to either work from home (and will communicate through G-Chat and participate meetings through ZOOM/Google Group video calls) or to work in-house.

Really, I liked that I can go swimming during my lunch breaks or go out for a walk almost immediately after I finish the daily grind.

Rivyn · Jul 2, 2022

Elfgore said:
Eh, I don't have high hopes for that sticking around. It will be higher than before, but companies don't like giving up power. Some companies will tell people too come back in at some point and fire them if they don't.

Could just be some recent events at my employer making me feel a certain way.

It is here to stay. We have reached a time where there are more employees than employers and thus everyone can choose between WFH jobs or no WFH home jobs. Companies will need to follow suit when they realise more and more people are choosing for the former option.

Senator Toadstool · Jul 2, 2022

Rivyn said:
It is here to stay. We have reached a time where there are more employees than employers and thus everyone can choose between WFH jobs or no WFH home jobs. Companies will need to follow suit when they realise more and more people are choosing for the former option.

LMAO, what kinda of tech bubble are you living in? this is feasible only for those who can afford to say no. the vast vast majority don't have that power. and that power will be constantly stripped away at (start to see benefits accruing to people who show up)

where already seeing mass tech layoffs. do you think those people will be able to choose come rent time?

adj_noun · Jul 2, 2022

Rivyn said:
everyone can choose between WFH jobs or no WFH home jobs.

I suspect this would be news to a lot of folks.

regenhuber · Jul 2, 2022

I had 3 days wfh, 2 days in the office before the pandemic, now I'm 99% wfh and gave up my office.

Kyougar · Jul 2, 2022

RomanticHeroX said:
I know many people here who are able to take advantage of it think this way, but WFH has only been an option for those in certain industries, and largely only those who are relatively high income. Your nurses, grocery clerks, teachers, fast food workers and many others are entirely unaffected.

There are millions of Call Center employees who work at, or below minimum wage who can finally WFH. I am one of them.
The added benefit is, that we now have the whole country and even the world at our fingertips and don't have to beg our local employers for scraps. After WFH, I could apply to positions that pays 20 to 30% more at a project that personally interests me.
Even my colleagues who work for the local employers now have more power because the age-old excuse for shitty pay and shitty managers "you won't find any other employment in this city" doesn't work anymore.

zoggy · Jul 2, 2022

Happy for all the remote workers but it's taken a toll on working class and service jobs.

Like everyone wants to Doordash food home now and restaurants get a lot of business, but the workers get paid and treated like shit lol.

I feel like any food place I go to now is understaffed under paid and always getting slammed, even when it's slow, the place will compensate by then having 2 fucking people cook all the food

Senator Toadstool · Jul 2, 2022

Kyougar said:
There are millions of Call Center employees who work at, or below minimum wage who can finally WFH. I am one of them.
The added benefit is, that we now have the whole country and even the world at our fingertips and don't have to beg our local employers for scraps. After WFH, I could apply to positions that pays 20 to 30% more at a project that personally interests me.
Even my colleagues who work for the local employers now have more power because the age-old excuse for shitty pay and shitty managers "you won't find any other employment in this city" doesn't work anymore.

this is great but this isn't going to last during the next recession. when unemployment starts to tick up you're not gonna find those options and a 100 people will be competing for one spot rather than the reverse right now

Petruccis Biceps · Jul 2, 2022

Yeah it's the best thing ever. Going from close to 5 hours daily of commuting to 30 seconds to my home office improved my entire life

Senator Toadstool · Jul 2, 2022

zoggy said:
Happy for all the remote workers but it's taken a toll on working class and service jobs.

Like everyone wants to Doordash food home now and restaurants get a lot of business, but the workers get paid and treated like shit lol.

I feel like any food place I go to now is understaffed under paid and always getting slammed, even when it's slow, the place will compensate by then having 2 fucking people cook all the food

this.

I'm happy for people but there's a kind of smugness about it here that doesn't reflect many of the people I interact with on a daily basis. they've become invisible again, so wealthy people can "work on their mental health" and "work out at home"

Psamtik · Jul 2, 2022

All I can say, as someone whose job can't be done remotely, is don't be surprised when this becomes the next great class divide.

Glad people are having the time of their lives chilling at home and all, but everyone else is working harder than ever to prop up the WFH bourgeoisie.

Maximo · Jul 2, 2022

*widely normalised* is a faaaaaar stretch.

adj_noun · Jul 2, 2022

zoggy said:
Happy for all the remote workers but it's taken a toll on working class and service jobs.

Like everyone wants to Doordash food home now and restaurants get a lot of business, but the workers get paid and treated like shit lol.

I feel like any food place I go to now is understaffed under paid and always getting slammed, even when it's slow, the place will compensate by then having 2 fucking people cook all the food

it both concretely improves the lives of those who are able to benefit from it and deepens the collective class divide for a lot of the reasons OP lists, especially things like not having to commute (spending less money on gas, maintenance, repairs, etc.) and being able to spend more time with your family, especially kids (spending less on daycare/babysitters/etc.)

ToddBonzalez · Jul 2, 2022

Maximo said:
*widely normalised* is a faaaaaar stretch.

At least for office jobs I feel it is.

Vex · Jul 2, 2022

zoggy said:
Happy for all the remote workers but it's taken a toll on working class and service jobs.

Like everyone wants to Doordash food home now and restaurants get a lot of business, but the workers get paid and treated like shit lol.

I feel like any food place I go to now is understaffed under paid and always getting slammed, even when it's slow, the place will compensate by then having 2 fucking people cook all the food

Yeap service workers are getting destroyed.

Also don't forget all the security, housekeeping, etc jobs that will go ass up if there is no need for them anymore. When people work from home, the buildings are mostly unoccupied.

Senator Toadstool said:
this.

I'm happy for people but there's a kind of smugness about it here that doesn't reflect many of the people I interact with on a daily basis. they've become invisible again, so wealthy people can "work on their mental health" and "work out at home"

Yea sometimes I forget that ERA is mostly upper class people with a ton of disposable income who triple dip on the same game over and over because it is more convenient for them to play it on handheld or some shit. They don't understand that there are people out there who don't have the same choice and luxury they have.

It's very smug indeed.

Cudpug · Jul 2, 2022

I do overall appreciate it but in the work I'm doing some of the limitations are starting to show. We are individually working efficiently but team working isn't as effective as it used to be. I'm remote managing a team of 5 which is challenging and we find that while our team is working quite well together, when we collaborate with other teams certain things are just not getting done. I can't help but feel it increases silo working, at least in my experience.

Rivyn · Jul 2, 2022

Senator Toadstool said:
LMAO, what kinda of tech bubble are you living in? this is feasible only for those who can afford to say no. the vast vast majority don't have that power. and that power will be constantly stripped away at (start to see benefits accruing to people who show up)

where already seeing mass tech layoffs. do you think those people will be able to choose come rent time?

I guess I need to mention that I am not living in the US. That country is filled with companies that refuse to listen when it comes down to hearing what your employees desire. I have read a bunch of horror stories over the past few years in this forum. I am only hearing positive news about WFH from a ton of companies here in The Netherlands though.

Psamtik · Jul 2, 2022

Vex said:
Yea sometimes I forget that ERA is mostly upper class people with a ton of disposable income who triple dip on the same game over and over because it is more convenient for them to play it on handheld or some shit. They don't understand that there are people out there who don't have the same choice and luxury they have.

It's very smug indeed.

This thread radicalized me: https://www.resetera.com/threads/so...o-games-when-youre-supposed-to-be-wfh.565546/

Vex · Jul 2, 2022

Psamtik said:
All I can say, as someone whose job can't be done remotely, is don't be surprised when this becomes the next great class divide.

The class divide is very real indeed. We talk about the wealth gap all the time. And now, more than ever, driving less allows you to keep more of your money in your pocket as gas prices reach all time highs. The well-off are stacking money by working remotely. And the lower class has to drive to work still.
Things are going to get worse.

Psamtik said:
This thread radicalized me: https://www.resetera.com/threads/so...o-games-when-youre-supposed-to-be-wfh.565546/

Also, OOF

Senator Toadstool · Jul 2, 2022

Rivyn said:
I guess I need to mention that I am not living in the US. That country is filled with companies that refuse to listen when it comes down to hearing what your employees desire. I have read a bunch of horror stories over the past few years in this forum. I am only hearing positive news about WFH from a ton of companies here in The Netherlands though.

what industry in the netherlands because if its tech or white collar it still doesn't make a difference.

The "well I'm not US" doesn't mean your not in a bubble or service workers in western europe aren't being worked harder than ever

subpar spatula · Jul 2, 2022

Working from home is a privilege these days. Most of us don't even work, and we know it. Like, we're all napping and watching TV.

Kyougar · Jul 2, 2022

Senator Toadstool said:
this is great but this isn't going to last during the next recession. when unemployment starts to tick up you're not gonna find those options and a 100 people will be competing for one spot rather than the reverse right now

There will always be call center jobs, I worked it for 14 years and no recession has ever made an impact in the field.

And no, there won't be any "surprise" going back to office or hybrid models. After 2 years, the companies have employees all over the country, they have more employees than they have available office space. Many even have downsized their office space after 2 years of remote. Most middle managers who need "the personal touch" were either regulated to other positions or outright fired if they couldn't manage their people remotely. And new middle managers were hired or promoted who could manage workers remotely.

The Call center field didn't believe in remote work because they thought it wouldn't work and that the clients they work for wouldn't like it. After 2 years of mostly mandatory remote work, they saw that it works and any issues with clients regarding data safety and other issues were ironed out.

Rivyn · Jul 2, 2022

Senator Toadstool said:
what industry in the netherlands because if its tech or white collar it still doesn't make a difference.

The "well I'm not US" doesn't mean your not in a bubble or service workers in western europe aren't being worked harder than ever

Granted. Perhaps I should have left out the "everyone" part. I truly understand that people working on land, doing your plumbing, taking your groceries from one place to another etc etc. are never going to be able to work from home.

But that wasn't really something those people could have ever dreamt about in the near future, right? It's not like a plumber 10 years ago thought; "damn, in 10 years ago from now I can manage my work from home."

And just thinking that people in high income jobs are the only one's benefiting from WFH is kind of ignoring the fact that there are millions of call center jobs around the world who are now able to WFH. Those aren't high income jobs.

It is not all black and white.

Atolm · Jul 2, 2022

Psamtik said:
All I can say, as someone whose job can't be done remotely, is don't be surprised when this becomes the next great class divide.

Glad people are having the time of their lives chilling at home and all, but everyone else is working harder than ever to prop up the WFH bourgeoisie.

I WFH at a Call Center and this is true, even tho my wage is really low as well.

The good thing about WFH is that less people needs a car

Neo C. · Jul 2, 2022

RomanticHeroX said:
Your nurses, grocery clerks, teachers, fast food workers and many others are entirely unaffected.

For teachers and coaches, there are now more online-courses available than before. But I prefer to teach in person.

Xando · Jul 2, 2022

I'm actually thrilled things are starting to go back to pre covid work. Sitting at home and doing video meetings all day is boring as fuck and i really missed traveling.

Virtual meeting never gonna be able to replicate the direct connection of in person meetings

Gyro Zeppeli · Jul 2, 2022

The honeymoon will be over come next year when the recession is in full swing and job layoffs are occurring. WFH is a largely class divide (I know there are exceptions), so I don't feel as if there is kinship with other workers. All it does is breed resentment from workers who have worked with the public from the start. I often see WFH people talking about playing games while WFH, so it rubs me the wrong way.

GamerJM · Jul 2, 2022

I hope that if remote work becomes normalized, we get like, vacant offices you can rent out or something. I would legit pay money to just have my own little office away from my parents' house. I'm pro-remote work, but this is not a good working environment at all and I've been working here for over two years. I end up working 12+ hour days every single day at least partially because I can't be as productive as I would be at a proper desk (which I do not have room for in my room), and because I experience at least one major internet connection issue per day on average.

Royalan · Jul 2, 2022

Psamtik said:
All I can say, as someone whose job can't be done remotely, is don't be surprised when this becomes the next great class divide.

Yes, and it's already starting for some industries (not ALL, some).

I work in an office that implemented WFH sloppily as a result of COVID, and unfortunately there's been a noticeably clear and visible line between who can work from home and who can't. It's a divide that people were always aware of; it's just really stark now.

It really affects my office because there's so much sensitive work that can't be done remotely. So, the people who are stuck coming into the office find themselves leaned on more than ever before. Meanwhile, all the cries of, "I'm just as efficient at home!!!" are starting to fall on deaf ears. As far as my department is concerned, I'm flat out telling people saying this that they're full of shit at this point.

Mabase · Jul 2, 2022

Psamtik said:
All I can say, as someone whose job can't be done remotely, is don't be surprised when this becomes the next great class divide.

Glad people are having the time of their lives chilling at home and all, but everyone else is working harder than ever to prop up the WFH bourgeoisie.

THIS.

I'm happy for all of us WFH peeps and the new perks, but we need to lift up our workingclass neighbours as well. Use all that saved gas money and give proper tipping at least, when a sweating immigrant delivers your lunch in your 5th story apartment!

Pinku · Jul 2, 2022

zoggy said:
Happy for all the remote workers but it's taken a toll on working class and service jobs.

Like everyone wants to Doordash food home now and restaurants get a lot of business, but the workers get paid and treated like shit lol.

I feel like any food place I go to now is understaffed under paid and always getting slammed, even when it's slow, the place will compensate by then having 2 fucking people cook all the food

Yup, I work fast food. We've been understaffed for two years although we didn't have to be. The customers have to wait forever but the manager says, "sorry, because of corona we are understaffed". Then tells the kitchen to work faster..

FinFunnels · Jul 2, 2022

Yeah, WFH rules.

I did it for over 2 years, then took a job that required me to come into an office every day. Immediately regretted it since it took up so much of my time and I was spending tons on travel and food every day. Now I've got another remote job,

Lagamorph · Jul 2, 2022

Xando said:
I'm actually thrilled things are starting to go back to pre covid work. Sitting at home and doing video meetings all day is boring as fuck and i really missed traveling.

Virtual meeting never gonna be able to replicate the direct connection of in person meetings

Royalan said:
Meanwhile, all the cries of, "I'm just as efficient at home!!!" are starting to fall on deaf ears. As far as my department is concerned, I'm flat out telling people saying this that they're full of shit at this point.

OK boomer.

Royalan · Jul 2, 2022

Lagamorph said:
OK boomer.

Funny because it's a lot of boomers getting these WFH gigs.

kVH2LpZd · Jul 2, 2022

Me, when I am in the Office for the sake of our hybrid model:

Marshawn Lynch's Bizarre Super Bowl Interview: 'I'm Just Here So I Won't Get Fined'

The Seattle Seahawks running back had one thing on his mind while talking to reporters.

youtu.be

VeryHighlander · Jul 2, 2022

Yeah. I did some remote work in 2016 and when I would bring up that I work from home i remember one person said "Like a telemarketer?"

So many fields allow for remote work and people were ignorant to that. I'm glad it's being accepted, finally. Now for the companies themselves to start accepting it.

Chaos2Frozen · Jul 2, 2022

Although I think it also made me regress back to a shut-in lol

MJForum Poster · Jul 2, 2022

I think there's two major positive consequences regardless of how you feel about working remotely.

The first is that more people working remotely takes cars off the roads at rush hour which improves the commute for the people who do still prefer to work in-person or are required to by their organization or the nature of their work. The second is that it has exposed which organizations have good management that can adapt to changes in the business climate and grow with the times, and which are pretty poor. That insight can be useful when trying to decide if you want to stay with a company or are trying to find a better fit for yourself.

Tobor · Jul 2, 2022

I feel for those who can't do it, but it literally can't go back at a lot of companies. Hiring permanent remote people who don't live in the city the company is located has exploded, and offices have been shrunk or redesigned.

As for workers slacking off at home, the answer is for companies to track work and what people are doing in new ways. That has already begun in a big way.

Kyougar · Jul 2, 2022

The Class divide is clearly at work in this thread. We have several posters like myself who point out that millions upon millions of low-class, minimum-wage workers (call center) now have the ability to work from home and don't need to pay for commuting, just getting ignored in favor of the narrative that WFH is a higher class privilege.

This shit always happens, something good happens to (part of) the lower class and people try to change the narrative or ignore the good that it does for millions of people.
Same with social care, just because some people take advantage or fraud the social program, millions of people are stigmatized or getting strangled by regulations.

Deleted member 93841 · Jul 2, 2022

Royalan said:
It really affects my office because there's so much sensitive work that can't be done remotely. So, the people who are stuck coming into the office find themselves leaned on more than ever before. Meanwhile, all the cries of, "I'm just as efficient at home!!!" are starting to fall on deaf ears. As far as my department is concerned, I'm flat out telling people saying this that they're full of shit at this point.

I'm inclined to both agree and disagree with this. I have no doubt that some people do work more efficiently at home, but it's dependent on a lot of factors, like the specific person, the type of work being doing, how well communication works between colleagues, etc.

I did QA during the pandemic and when everything was going smoothly, I did get the feeling that I was a bit more efficient. Up until something bottlenecked me. I get a pull request and notice something small, and instead of being able to just walk to the dev's desk to ask them about it and clear it up in 2 minutes, I was entirely dependent on the devs actually checking their messages or Emails, which many people neglect during WFH. I often ran into such problems that delayed my work, sometimes for hours at a time. And that kind of thing did not improve significantly after 2 years of WFH.

InaudibleWhisper · Jul 2, 2022

Kyougar said:
The Class divide is clearly at work in this thread. We have several posters like myself who point out that millions upon millions of low-class, minimum-wage workers (call center) now have the ability to work from home and don't need to pay for commuting, just getting ignored in favor of the narrative that WFH is a higher class privilege.

And those are the people WFH who literally can't slack off and play games because everything is monitored and if your phone isn't active and ready to take a call you'll have a TL jumping down your throat within 5 minutes.

Kyougar · Jul 2, 2022

InaudibleWhisper said:
And those are the people WFH who literally can't slack off and play games because everything is monitored and if your phone isn't active and ready to take a call you'll have a TL jumping down your throat within 5 minutes.

exactly, I had an ACW (after call work) time of 10 seconds at my last job. I would get a message if I am not taking the next call within 20 seconds.

Royalan · Jul 2, 2022

Zoop said:
I'm inclined to both agree and disagree with this. I have no doubt that some people do work more efficiently at home, but it's dependent on a lot of factors, like the specific person, the type of work being doing, how well communication works between colleagues, etc.

I did QA during the pandemic and when everything was going smoothly, I did get the feeling that I was a bit more efficient. Up until something bottlenecked me. I get a pull request and notice something small, and instead of being able to just walk to the dev's desk to ask them about it and clear it up in 2 minutes, I was entirely dependent on the devs actually checking their messages or Emails, which many people neglect during WFH. I often ran into such problems that delayed my work, sometimes for hours at a time. And that kind of thing did not improve significantly after 2 years of WFH.

Oof, you just described the exact type of issue that regularly affects my office. It's always trivial things that pile up. Something that affects me, and that I recently had to put my foot down on, is "Oh, you're going in? Can you do me a favor and..." And I had to find polite ways to say No. I'm going into the office because I have work to do. If you have work to do that requires coming in, you should probably come in.

And before anybody gets too upset, I do want to reiterate the very first sentence of my post in here on that class divide:

Yes, and it's already starting for some industries (not ALL, some).

I think it is understood that WFH has been a boon to people on a variety of fronts. Costs of travel. Costs of childcare. Mental health. But I think more often than not in these threads (and we've had a few of them now) it gets lost that not everyone has access to the benefits of WFH. Nor is WFH without its cost to some people. A lot of offices didn't smoothly implement WFH as a response to COVID, and you better believe more often than not, that's burdening someone.

For example, in my office, I'm part of a recently established task force to make sure that the people who HAVE to come into the office aren't taken advantage of. And one of the proposals is a financial incentive to people who work a certain amount of time in the office. But guess who's fighting that.

Parthenios · Jul 2, 2022

My pessimistic prediction:

Work from home will become another factor that pushes the US towards fascism, over a 20 year span (if the US doesn't fall to a coup already in that span). The two main ways that will contribute: 1) a lot of office jobs that escsped global outsourcing will be outsourced to countries with cheaper wages/ less strict labor laws, doing to white collar jobs what happened to blue collar ones and 2) work from home allows for de-urbanization, as workers can live in cheaper rural areas. Living in multicultural urban areas pulls people to the left, so cities deflating will have the opposite effect, and also decrease their reps in congress.

For all the awful shit of the last few years, it’s really cool and good that remote work suddenly became widely normalized

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