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Deleted member 48201

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 29, 2018
1,469
A 20-minute video featuring more than a dozen detention facilities in China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region has offered fresh evidence and renewed the discussion around China's large-scale crackdown on ethnic minorities in the region.

The video was filmed by a Chinese man named Guanguan, who went to Xinjiang after reading a series of articles from US news outlet BuzzFeed News, indicating the locations of several detention centers in the region.

His video, which was originally posted to YouTube in October, has attracted the attention of researchers and academics who have been focusing on China's large-scale crackdown on ethnic minorities in Xinjiang. Alison Killing, an architect who worked with BuzzFeed News to create a map of satellite images of the camps, said the new information from the video confirms what they believe to be happening in Xinjiang.
Rayhan Asat, a Uyghur human rights lawyer and senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's Strategic Litigation Project, said the unfiltered video footage adds to the ongoing documentation of the crackdown that is taking place in Xinjiang and "defeats the state propaganda and disinformation of 'Happy Uyghurs.'"

"I hope more Chinese people like this gentleman will stand up for their fellow citizens," Asat told DW.
"I visited Xinjiang once in 2019 on a bike trip, but the purpose of my visit this time is completely different," said Guanguan in the video. "I read a story on BuzzFeed News, in which the reporters identified the locations of many detention centers in Xinjiang through cross-comparing satellite imagery."

He followed the Mapbox satellite map created by the news outlet, along with satellite images from China's Baidu Maps service to film 18 detention facilities across eight cities in Xinjiang. While the video was uploaded to his YouTube channel last month, it is believed that he went to Xinjiang and filmed those facilities in 2020, based on his tweets.

"Due to the Chinese government's regulations, it is now very difficult for foreign journalists to gain access to Xinjiang to conduct interviews. I was thinking, while foreign journalists can't go to Xinjiang, I can still go there," he said in the video.
Guanguan began his trip in the eastern city of Hami, where he drove by the Hami Compulsory Isolated Drug Rehabilitation Center. The building wasn't shown on Baidu Maps, and the bars on the window as well as the barbed wire fencing led him to suspect that the center could be a detention facility.

Next, he went to the Mori Kazakh Autonomous County in Xinjiang, where he captured footage of a detention center with watchtowers and surrounded by surveillance cameras. He later drove by the Mori County Detention Center. Neither of the facilities were marked on the Baidu map.

When he arrived at Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang, he drove by several facilities with watchtowers and high barbed-wire fences, which are all typical features of detention facilities in Xinjiang. Slogans like "reform through labor and cultural transformation" were also written on the walls of some of the buildings.
In July, the Associated Press (AP) visited a cell in the Urumqi No. 3 Detention Center in Xinjiang's Dabancheng, describing the facility as "the largest in the country and possibly the world, with a complex that sprawls over 220 acres."

The AP estimated that "the center could hold roughly 10,000 people and many more if crowded, based on satellite imagery and the cells and benches seen during the tour."
Guanguan also mentioned in the video that during his first trip to Xinjiang, some local Han Chinese people told him that a large number of Uyghurs had been moved to other regions as cheap laborers.

Since Guanguan revealed his face in the Xinjiang video, many people have expressed concerns over his safety. In a new video uploaded to his YouTube channel on Friday, Guanguan said he hopes that the footage of the detention facilities can be passed on as evidence. "I don't have the ability to directly challenge the Chinese government, but this is what I can do within the limits of my power," he said.
www.dw.com

Xinjiang footage sheds new light on Uyghur detention camps – DW – 11/22/2021

A YouTube video of Xinjiang detention facilities has rekindled concern over China's crackdown on ethnic minorities. Researchers say the videos offer new evidence, but many fear for the vlogger's safety.

Video of the concentration camps. Turn on CC for english subtitles.



Video explaining why he made the video and his criticism of the CCP.




The size and scale of these concentration camps is absolutely horrific. The Chinese government is an evil authoritarian genocidal regime.
This guy is very brave for making these videos and getting more info out about the situation in Xinjiang to counter CCP propaganda.
 
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activepassive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Cincinnati, OH
Wow. Incredibly brave of him. Information is so powerful. Acts like this are so critical to stripping bare and exposing the gross depravity of these acts by the CCP.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,316
Scotland
Incredibly brave of him to do this - as futile as it may be, gathering evidence like this is vital to refute the propaganda the government is pumping out on the international stage.
 

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,740
DFW
That brave man essentially signed his death warrant. Or, "here is Guanguan happily eating dinner" videos posted on CCP propaganda channels.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,594
well some were ready to believe it was all just an overblown overreach by the failing West, but you can't trust information in an authoritarian situation. History taught us this over and over, and this goes for China and America both. When power controls the information flow, you have to take care and keep some healthy skepticism, or some unhealthy skepticism, shit lets be real.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,129
This is so damn horrible.

Nothing will be done because superpowers can do what they want especially to minorities. Other countries and corporations will continue to use labor from these camps because they don't actually care.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,828
Crazy how many large scale "detention centers" this region has. Can't imagine what must be going on behind those walls.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,821
Realistically is there anything that can be done to help or stop the genocide? It's sickening how this is going on and barely getting attention
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,594
Realistically is there anything that can be done to help or stop the genocide? It's sickening how this is going on and barely getting attention
gotta hold on to the concept in the face of changing narratives. gotta press on china from the outside for all the good that it will do. let them know we haven't and won't forget or let go.

that's a start before actions are taken.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,245
Realistically is there anything that can be done to help or stop the genocide? It's sickening how this is going on and barely getting attention
Realistically there is very little anyone can do to stop it.

What we can do is hold the people responsible to some degree of accountability. Sanction the fuck out of the officials responsible for architecting and instituting this shit. Seize their overseas assets and ban their children from attending our ivy leagues. We know who they are and we should hit them where it hurts. Take a page out of the Magnitsky Act.
 

ajoshi

Member
Sep 11, 2021
2,035
just gonna preempt the bad actors

1) turns out the osint satellite imagery analysts aren't just making stuff up for the cia and expertise actually works even if you don't understand it

2) would like see any rational defense of sprawling "socialist education" compounds for specific ethnoreligious groups replete with prison walls and barred windows, and said ethnoreligious minority shipped elsewhere for cheap forced labor while cutting childbirth rates drastically and bulldozing all cultural heritage. sure sounds like something...

3) "don't criticize outside the imperial core, you can't do anything so might as well only criticize Western things" etc... if your ideology doesn't have room for wanting to press another country on an ongoing ethnicide, your ideology is shit.
 

Ceerious

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,225
Asian
The size and scale of these concentration camps is absolutely horrific. The Chinese government is an evil authoritarian genocidal regime.
This guy is very brave for making these videos and getting more info out about the situation in Xinjiang to counter CCP propaganda.
so umm, is the guy who made the video safe ?
I hope Guanguan is safe. And what the hell is with the "crackdown" terminology? It's genocide.

I can't confirm it's 100% true, but this is his twitter handle.

At least, this is the twitter handle he includes in the Video's description:

"重要的事请在Twitter@amag2018私信我"

"If you have anything important please PM me at Twitter@amag2018"

In his tweet's replies, many people congratulated and thanked him for the video, including confirmed Chinese political activists.

Again: I can't confirm it's 100% true. But so far every clue leads to this. Judging from the following tweet he's safe in Manhattan.

 
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Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,481
Dude is a hero, and I hope he and any family he has can get out of China ASAP because if they can't this isn't ending well for him. This type of footage is necessary for exposing these horrific acts and while I'm not confident much if anything will be done unfortunately this might at least spur more action and do things like inspire people to help get Uighurs out of the country
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,029
I can't confirm it's 100% true, but this is his twitter handle.

At least, this is the twitter handle he includes in the Video's description:

"重要的事请在Twitter@amag2018私信我"

"If you have anything important please PM me at Twitter@amag2018"

In his tweet's replies, many people congratulated and thanked him for the video, including confirmed Chinese political activists.

Again: I can't confirm it's 100% true. But so far every clue leads to this. Judging from the following tweet he's safe in Manhattan.


Honestly that I suspect will just become the line of attack - oh, he's in the US, clearly a US stooge. That he expressly desires the dissolution of the CCP will only add to that.

Still, damn good work on his part.
 

nampad

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,238
"reform through labor and cultural transformation"

Damn, nearly what the Nazis wrote on the gates of their concentration camps.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Realistically is there anything that can be done to help or stop the genocide? It's sickening how this is going on and barely getting attention

This may sound like whataboutism (it's not, I swear) but since the real answer to this is "no", the best thing Americans can do is reform their own country to a.) make it actually, demonstratively operate morally (especially in terms of indigenous relations and foreign policy) since this strips away claims of hypocrisy that the Chinese government can (rightfully) lob back at the US to cover its ass with and b.) make it really easy to get refugee status. I don't trust American politicians at all to handle this sort of thing with care instead of using it as a blunt stick to attack China with for Cold War 2. Like, Marco Rubio or whoever truthfully has zero interest in the wellbeing of Uyghurs and probably just wants to find a wedge to carve up China by supporting East Turkestan separatists or something. If we actually care, we need to provide a haven, not let the right wing grab onto the narrative for their bloodlust.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,278
Seattle
Realistically is there anything that can be done to help or stop the genocide? It's sickening how this is going on and barely getting attention

call your congressional representatives, once they start doing town halls keep on asking/prolong your MoC.

i keep on seeing people say nothing can be done, people think your only options are nothing and world war 3. That's not even close to being true.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,029
This may sound like whataboutism (it's not, I swear) but since the real answer to this is "no", the best thing Americans can do is reform their own country to a.) make it actually, demonstratively operate morally (especially in terms of indigenous relations and foreign policy) since this strips away claims of hypocrisy that the Chinese government can (rightfully) lob back at the US to cover its ass with and b.) make it really easy to get refugee status. I don't trust American politicians at all to handle this sort of thing with care instead of using it as a blunt stick to attack China with for Cold War 2. Like, Marco Rubio or whoever truthfully has zero interest in the wellbeing of Uyghurs and probably just wants to find a wedge to carve up China by supporting East Turkestan separatists or something. If we actually care, we need to provide a haven, not let the right wing grab onto the narrative for their bloodlust.

To sorta add to this, going through amag's twitter feed, they seem to have gotten out by way of Ecuador. Which would be because of China's ties to Ecuador, and Ecuador's ties to the US in turn. While direct intake of refugees from China would be difficult, there's corridors you can build up - even surreptitiously!

But nah, just, complain, then make minimal effort to actually take anyone in I suppose
 

blue_whale

Member
Nov 1, 2017
593
It's so courageous for a Chinese citizen to do this where there will be real consequences for him and his family. I wish him the best but I fear the worst.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,940
Didn't watch the entire thing, but this guy seems unnaturally calm, considering what he's doing.

Not that I doubt any of his work. Insanely brave, and those images and video are downright chilling.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,272
That dude is a fucking Chad ass hero

Fuck the ccp and I hope all Involved in this genocide suffer in this life or the next. Fuck them all
 

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
How did you find these videos? I searched the full, exact English title of the first video in the Youtube app and it was the 170th result.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 48201

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 29, 2018
1,469
This may sound like whataboutism (it's not, I swear) but since the real answer to this is "no", the best thing Americans can do is reform their own country to a.) make it actually, demonstratively operate morally (especially in terms of indigenous relations and foreign policy) since this strips away claims of hypocrisy that the Chinese government can (rightfully) lob back at the US to cover its ass with and b.) make it really easy to get refugee status. I don't trust American politicians at all to handle this sort of thing with care instead of using it as a blunt stick to attack China with for Cold War 2. Like, Marco Rubio or whoever truthfully has zero interest in the wellbeing of Uyghurs and probably just wants to find a wedge to carve up China by supporting East Turkestan separatists or something. If we actually care, we need to provide a haven, not let the right wing grab onto the narrative for their bloodlust.
If you have to preface your argument with "This might sound like whataboutism but it's not", then it is whataboutism.

You come into this thread but you have zero to say about what China is doing but you rattle of the usual tankie nonsense that the US needs to improve themselves before it can say anything. Guess what by the time the US has improved or made up for all it's done there won't be many or any Uyghurs left at all. Almost every country has done horrible things by your logic nobody can say anything about what the CCP is doing.

Who cares what the CCP says anyway they have zero credibility, they're the one actively commiting a genocide and oppressing the Chinese people.

Do you have any proof that the US wants to break up China? If not then it's just a conspiracy theory.
 
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Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
If you have to preface your argument with "This might sound like whataboutism but it's not", then it is whataboutism.

No, because my post is about an actual strategy the US could use if it cared to do it, not "hey look over here". I take the stance that Chomsky takes which is that the US could actually be a great force for good in the world if it bothered to live up to its ideals.

You come into this thread but you have zero to say about what China is doing

My post acknowledges that China is doing horrible things to Uyghurs. I didn't come into this thread to derail it with an argument with you when you're busy shadowboxing against an imaginary tankie.

but you rattle of the usual tankie nonsense that the US needs to improve themselves before it can say anything.

Actually I take this from Jesus, not Marxism-Leninism, since I'm not a Marxist-Leninist. You may recognize this if you ever paid literally a second of attention to anything I ever post. You can go ask liberals on this board who I used to be friends with what I think about tankies and the CCP if you want.

Guess what by the time the US has improved or made up for all it's done there won't be many or any Uyghurs left at all. Almost every country has done horrible things by your logic nobody can say anything.

See what I said at the beginning of my post.

Do you have any proof that the US wants to break up China? If not then it's just a conspiracy theory.

I think conservatives who talk about Tibet and Xinjiang have zero interest in the actual people of Tibet and Xinjiang and that anyone who thinks they do is a useful idiot for American imperialism, in the same way that anyone (myself included, as I used to be a Republican) who ever thought the US gave a shit about the freedom of Iraqis or Afghans was a useful idiot for American imperialism.

Personally, I find it really weird and concerning that the East Turkestan Government in Exile (which just coincidentally happens to be based in Washington, DC) has noticeable contacts with Republicans and the military community. See Wikipedia for a brief summary:

In March 2020, members of the ETGE and the East Turkistani community, led by newly elected Prime Minister Salih Hudayar, met with Representative Ted Yoho[SUP][27][/SUP] and asked him to deliver a speech on East Turkistan at the US House of Representatives. Congressman Ted Yoho described East Turkistan as an "occupied country" and condemned China for its alleged genocide of Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other Turkic peoples.[SUP][28][/SUP][SUP][29][/SUP]

The ETGE aims to be non-partisan but has received more support on the East Turkistan issue from the Republican Party,[SUP][27][/SUP] and the Prime Minister makes semi-regular appearances on conservative media,[SUP][30][/SUP][SUP][31][/SUP][SUP][32][/SUP] including a guest appearance on Steve Bannon's War Room.[SUP][33][/SUP] In November 2019, retired US Air Force Brigadier General Robert Spalding, the former Director of Strategic Planning, at the US National Security Council and Joseph Bosco, the former China Director at the US Department of Defense along with other American analysts had attended and gave speeches at the ETGE's 8th General Assembly in Washington, D.C.[SUP][34][/SUP]

In June 2020, the ETGE spearheaded an effort by pro-independence Uyghur, Manchu, and Tibetan groups to oppose "Chinese imperialism in all forms" and sent a joint letter to the US State Department, the Council of the European Union, and the Foreign Ministries of India, Japan, and the UK rejecting "Chinese occupation," and calling on the "international community to help bring about a democratic resolution that gives complete national independence for East Turkistan, Manchuria, South Mongolia, and Tibet."

But hey, YMMV!

See, the thing you don't understand, because you're completely ignorant about my beliefs, is that I literally do support the dismantling of the PRC because I consider it an authoritarian capitalist nation with a veneer of socialism which historically carried out (and is carrying out) atrocities. But I only support this in the context of socialist internationalism, not in the context of US imperial ambitions. In the same way, I support the dismantling of the United States. If, say, the US gave Hawaii back to the native Hawaiians and followed the demands of the Land Back movement, I'd be very pleased and might even believe the US is acting in good faith when it comes to its criticisms of other governments. I think the rest of the world would as well, and this would help put more pressure on China.

We have to think dialectically about these things.
 
staff post - stop the derail

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,788
Official Staff Communication
Hey, knock off the goddamned derail. This thread has literally nothing to do with the US government, stop trying to distract from the actual topic. Next person to do it gets a ban.