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haziq

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,661
User Banned (2 Weeks): Victim blaming rhetoric.
As an abuse victim you should have more understanding of people and the trials they face in coming out or even realising that what happened in their childhood was abusive.

You're actively perpetuating a mentality that leads to the silencing of child abuse victims, and you should really reflect on that.

I've actually reflected on that more than anyone else in here.

Which is why this documentary pisses me off so much.

Because, let's assume for a moment that he's guilty. That means we let a predator walk free to prey on more kids. And the best excuse we can come up with for this is that "he was groomed/fucked up in the head"? Fuck that shit. There's a cycle of abuse & violence that gets perpetrated when we don't report this shit when it happens and stand up for the victims the first fucking time someone asks you about it.

I'll never see my justice served because what happened to me is known only to me and one other person: the person who did it. I told my mom, but that's it. I'll never be able to go to court and bring him to justice because it's my word against his. In this case, you mean to tell me that, with multiple accounts of fuckery going on, Wade just decided to validate MJ's position and that's okay?

Garbage.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,185
For the record, I'm not defending MJ. The man is dead. As far as I'm concerned, there's no point in this whole thing since justice can't be served if he's guilty. Which is all I care about.

I'm just wondering why people are speaking in absolutes about something that MJ was acquitted for, based on the testimonies in a documentary made partially by an admitted liar. Because for me, if he's guilty, then that means we let a guy walk free to abuse more kids. And if he isn't guilty, then we're just causing people who watch this to flashback to their own traumas for no damn reason, aside from whatever agenda the creators of this doc might or might not have.

Call me delusional of you want. But with my disposition, that doesn't sit right with me at all.

So these guys are liars Yet the word of Michael "I've only ever had two plastic surgeries" Jackson is credible?
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,606
Trying to dismiss the allegations as 'coming from liars' seems desperate when an explanation for the lies has been given, and Michael Jackson himself lied about more trivial things like his surgeries.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,185
Trying to dismiss the allegations as 'coming from liars' seems desperate when an explanation for the lies has been given, and Michael Jackson himself lied about more trivial things like his surgeries.

Also, if you are saying they are "known liars", that means they are telling the truth now, you can't have it both ways. It's a shitty deflection tactic being pushed by Wacko fanatics.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
I've actually reflected on that more than anyone else in here.

Which is why this documentary pisses me off so much.

Because, let's assume for a moment that he's guilty. That means we let a predator walk free to prey on more kids. And the best excuse we can come up with for this is that "he was groomed/fucked up in the head"? Fuck that shit. There's a cycle of abuse & violence that gets perpetrated when we don't report this shit when it happens and stand up for the victims the first fucking time someone asks you about it.

I'll never see my justice served because what happened to me is known only to me and one other person: the person who did it. I told my mom, but that's it. I'll never be able to go to court and bring him to justice because it's my word against his. In this case, you mean to tell me that, with multiple accounts of fuckery going on, Wade just decided to validate MJ's position and that's okay?

Garbage.
Don't you think there's validity to the point that Wade at his young age just wasn't yet able to properly understand what was going on?
 

Annoying Old Party Man

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
966
I mean... the evidence is piling up.

The most fucked up thing is how he was portrayed - as an innocent, almost messianic genius. And everyone believed in him, his work and his music. It's very difficult to process this when you realise that all this time it is really possible that the man used his fame and image to lure little boys to his bed...

I'm not going to say that I'm 100% convinced that he was guilty, but I feel sad about the alleged victims if this is what they had to go through. No matter the outcome - whether these people are lying for money or he was lying all those years, it's the same: our world is really, truly fucked up.
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
I've actually reflected on that more than anyone else in here.

Which is why this documentary pisses me off so much.

Because, let's assume for a moment that he's guilty. That means we let a predator walk free to prey on more kids. And the best excuse we can come up with for this is that "he was groomed/fucked up in the head"? Fuck that shit. There's a cycle of abuse & violence that gets perpetrated when we don't report this shit when it happens and stand up for the victims the first fucking time someone asks you about it.

I'll never see my justice served because what happened to me is known only to me and one other person: the person who did it. I told my mom, but that's it. I'll never be able to go to court and bring him to justice because it's my word against his. In this case, you mean to tell me that, with multiple accounts of fuckery going on, Wade just decided to validate MJ's position and that's okay?

Garbage.

Whaaaaaaa.....??? My friend, that blame rests on Michael! Not Wade.

He was groomed, brainwashed, made to believe that what was done was ok. He wasn't gonna throw his god under the bus.
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,476
I've actually reflected on that more than anyone else in here.

Which is why this documentary pisses me off so much.

Because, let's assume for a moment that he's guilty. That means we let a predator walk free to prey on more kids. And the best excuse we can come up with for this is that "he was groomed/fucked up in the head"? Fuck that shit. There's a cycle of abuse & violence that gets perpetrated when we don't report this shit when it happens and stand up for the victims the first fucking time someone asks you about it.

I'll never see my justice served because what happened to me is known only to me and one other person: the person who did it. I told my mom, but that's it. I'll never be able to go to court and bring him to justice because it's my word against his. In this case, you mean to tell me that, with multiple accounts of fuckery going on, Wade just decided to validate MJ's position and that's okay?

Garbage.
GTFO with this shit. He explains why in the doco, which it's now clear you haven't watched. Anyway, seems another guy has come out now accusing him of the same behaviour.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
Nobody is pointing at this as some kind of smoking gun, because the existence of a piece of evidence that could be considered a smoking gun is a rare occurrence when it comes to child abuse cases.

This video is just one more piece of evidence corroborating part of the story, that Safechuck told.

The thing is that, because MJ had so much money and fame he could carry out basically any fantasy he envisioned. He could be the perfect pedophile and have every tool at his disposal to manipulate everyone with ease.

That fact makes this a case of reality is weirder than fiction. The story that the victims are telling seems so unreal and outlandish that it becomes very hard believe. but when you see all the pieces together in the context that is presented by the documentary, it becomes harder and harder to support MJ's innocence.

Do an exercise:
1 - Try to put yourself in the victim's shoes (you can't, but try for a moment).
2 - Think about how hard it would be for you to prove that anything happened.
3 - Remind yourself that there is no smoking gun because, for that to happen there would have to be physical evidence (video/pictures/dna of the sex act)
4 - Remind yourself that these victims were very young when this happened, and took several decades to process what happened to them.
5 - Forget for a minute that the man was MJ and remind yourself that in his adult life, this man expressed on several occasions his desire to sleep with children, unrelated to him.
6 - Remind yourself of the fact that this man had an alarm system installed on his bedroom, to alert him of the presence of anybody in the vicinity.
7 - Try to remind yourself of how a relationship this close to the most famous person in the world, in which abuse occurred, would change the way you understand things as love, friendship, sex, family life, work.

Now answer me this, do you believe Michael Jackson molested any of these children?

I don't know.

As I said I NEVER like the fact MJ was around all those kids. It just felt horribly wrong. Those testimonies are disturbing and I don't wish what they allegedly went through to anyboy. Glad to see both kids went to getting married and have good careers in their own rights.

But I've seen so many stories where people seemed very convincing and then it was just all lies. So I don't want to jump to conclusions as many people here. I need proofs, not allegations.

Besides, after watching the Documentary ( part 1 and part 2 ) and the Gayle King interview. I have to say I see some red flags :

1. The Parents
I don't care what anybody says. It's just unreal for ANY parent to let their kid with a stranger. Even worse, to let them sleep in the same bed. And EVEN after the first allegations in 1993 !!! There are just no excuses. And there is something horribly wrong as if the parents were complaisant in some ways.

2. The Money
Micheal Jackson gave money in various forms : envelop of cash, the trips, hotels, flghts in 1st class, even a house. So is it farfetched to think that the MJ's defense point of view, that all this is about money only ? I don't think so. And James and Wade claims to Gayle King that they would not make any money from Leaving Neverland is laughable ( they entitled to make money if they want to, but why lie about it ).

3. The U turns
Wade and James denied the allegations for years. Wade even supported MJ in two different court cases ( 1993 and 2003 ). And then he sues MJ for money after his death ?

4. Other kids deny the allegations
Other kids at the time like Brett Barnes and Macaulay Culkin denied the allegations. Should we just ignore it ?

5. The Documentary style
I was expecting a documentary that was more into investigation and not allegation. That was disappointing. Those allegations have been around for more than decades, there is nothing new in Leaving Neverland ( except the graphic details of abuses ). If anything, we just hear the story from the victims point of view ( which is a good thing ). But the lack of proper investigation is a total letdown for me.


So in my case, I still don't know. But I feel something wrong happened. Even if it was just "platonic" as Brett Barnes claims, that doesn't make it ok. So it clearly affects MJ's legacy in my book, because hanging out and sleeping with kids - even without sex - is not acceptable for me.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
I mean... the evidence is piling up.

The most fucked up thing is how he was portrayed - as an innocent, almost messianic genius. And everyone believed in him, his work and his music. It's very difficult to process this when you realise that all this time it is really possible that the man used his fame and image to lure little boys to his bed...

I'm not going to say that I'm 100% convinced that he was guilty, but I feel sad about the alleged victims if this is what they had to go through. No matter the outcome - whether these people are lying for money or he was lying all those years, it's the same: our world is really, truly fucked up.

Is it really true that everyone believed him? I'm a few years too young to have experienced him in his prime, but when I started to consciously take note of him from like the mid to late 90's onwards, he was from my memory mostly portrayed as somewhat of a freak and very likely a pedophile. It was only at his death that he was portrayed more positively than negatively.

I'm not from the US though, so that might skew with my perspective.
 

Downhome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,356
I find it crazy that in 1989, not too terribly long after it was common knowledge that he "hung out" with young boys, that more wasn't made of this back then. It isn't like there had already been a decade or two of public indoctrination that it was his normal. Then beyond that, even still, how in the world didn't anyone pause back then, not even in those two news reports, and even for a second wonder why in the world he was with a random 12 year old boy buying rings? It doesn't make a single bit of sense to me, even with his level of celebrity.

Surely if any celebrity today was seen in town with an unknown, unrelated, young boy and they were shopping or doing just about anything no matter what it is, that people would at least question it. It's crazy how the entire world turned a blind eye to so much that he did so publicly.

I think all of this is why so many people still defend him. I think for many that it makes so little sense how he could possibly be guilty when everything was so blatant and out in the open. That he was so famous, so well known and the charges were so disgusting, that it just isn't POSSIBLE he could be guilty. How could someone guilty make it so obvious. How could someone so guilty be found innocent in a court of law? Almost too obvious to even be true. I really think that's a huge part of it, even more than the blind fandom. I, for the record, do not fall into this line of thinking at all.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,185
3. The U turns
Wade and James denied the allegations for years. Wade even supported MJ in two different court cases ( 1993 and 2003 ). And then he sues MJ for money after his death ?

4. Other kids deny the allegations
Other kids at the time like Brett Barnes and Macaulay Culkin denied the allegations.

You (and people like you) really need to stop parroting these two bullet points as some kind of basis for skepticism. For one, the first point completely shits on the idea that victims could take years to come to grips with the fact that they have been abused. That doesn't mean they are liars.

Secondly, that he didn't abuse every single child he's been around means nothing. Plenty of women were around Cosby and Weinstein and weren't raped. Is that reason to doubt their accusers?

Just stop. It's incredibly shitty and disingenuous.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,055
Is it really true that everyone believed him? I'm a few years too young to have experienced him in his prime, but when I started to consciously take note of him from like the mid to late 90's onwards, he was from my memory mostly portrayed as somewhat of a freak and very likely a pedophile. It was only at his death that he was portrayed more positively than negatively.

I'm not from the US though, so that might skew with my perspective.

No, this is bullshit his fanboys propagate. After his 93 trial, the VAST majority believed he was guilty (innocent people don't settle out of court for a charge as serious as pedophilia).

When the 03 trial, everyone was like "here we go again"

From 93 to 09, Michael Jackson was at worst a pariah and at best the punchline to a comedian's kiddie raper joke.

But then he died.

And suddenly it became taboo to speak out against him because "never speak I'll of the dead" and " the dead cant defend themselves" The same bullshit you see in this thread.

His fanboys weaponized his death and used it to shut down any discussion about his perversions.
 

Kreed

The Negro Historian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,112
Is it really true that everyone believed him? I'm a few years too young to have experienced him in his prime, but when I started to consciously take note of him from like the mid to late 90's onwards, he was from my memory mostly portrayed as somewhat of a freak and very likely a pedophile. It was only at his death that he was portrayed more positively than negatively.

I'm not from the US though, so that might skew with my perspective.

No, especially when the "Living with Michael Jackson" special came out along with the Ed Bradley interview (ex: Chris Rock famously went after Michael Jackson in one of his comedy specials during this period). But when he was found not guilty for the second trial, it gave enough people ammo for the "Well, maybe he's just weird" narrative. Then his death/celebrations of his life drowned out most of the criticisms.
 

Downhome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,356
I really wish you guys would stop engaging the "I am not even an MJ fan, I am just asking questions and I think we need more proof" guys.

There is literally NO convincing these guys. Nothing. You could show up with 4k footage of the abuse and they would still find a way to spin it.

You mean kinda like R Kelly defenders?
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,476
It's crazy how weaponised his fans are - they all got manipulated by him too. They're attack dogs for the type of person they'd swear they'd never, ever want to associate with.

I mean... what more do you need? Multiple accusations of child abuse spanning decades. Naked pics of his friends and a bedroom filled with pornography and books written by convicted pedophiles. A house custom built for abuse by a guy who claimed he is Peter Pan with hidden bedrooms all over the place. Years of pre pubescent boy "companions". Endless lovelorn faxes. Accusations from a cancer survivor. (Look up the home videos with this guy where they picnic by the lake and take a train ride for an extra level of creepiness) Another guy has just come out accusing him who has handwritten notes from him in pedo photo books. It's almost comical at this point.

MJ fans "Hmmm... I just don't know..."
 
Last edited:

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
I don't know.

As I said I NEVER like the fact MJ was around all those kids. It just felt horribly wrong. Those testimonies are disturbing and I don't wish what they allegedly went through to anyboy. Glad to see both kids went to getting married and have good careers in their own rights.

But I've seen so many stories where people seemed very convincing and then it was just all lies. So I don't want to jump to conclusions as many people here. I need proofs, not allegations.

Besides, after watching the Documentary ( part 1 and part 2 ) and the Gayle King interview. I have to say I see some red flags :

1. The Parents
I don't care what anybody says. It's just unreal for ANY parent to let their kid with a stranger. Even worse, to let them sleep in the same bed. And EVEN after the first allegations in 1993 !!! There are just no excuses. And there is something horribly wrong as if the parents were complaisant in some ways.

2. The Money
Micheal Jackson gave money in various forms : envelop of cash, the trips, hotels, flghts in 1st class, even a house. So is it farfetched to think that the MJ's defense point of view, that all this is about money only ? I don't think so. And James and Wade claims to Gayle King that they would not make any money from Leaving Neverland is laughable ( they entitled to make money if they want to, but why lie about it ).

3. The U turns
Wade and James denied the allegations for years. Wade even supported MJ in two different court cases ( 1993 and 2003 ). And then he sues MJ for money after his death ?

4. Other kids deny the allegations
Other kids at the time like Brett Barnes and Macaulay Culkin denied the allegations. Should we just ignore it ?

5. The Documentary style
I was expecting a documentary that was more into investigation and not allegation. That was disappointing. Those allegations have been around for more than decades, there is nothing new in Leaving Neverland ( except the graphic details of abuses ). If anything, we just hear the story from the victims point of view ( which is a good thing ). But the lack of proper investigation is a total letdown for me.


So in my case, I still don't know. But I feel something wrong happened. Even if it was just "platonic" as Brett Barnes claims, that doesn't make it ok. So it clearly affects MJ's legacy in my book, because hanging out and sleeping with kids - even without sex - is not acceptable for me.

1) It happens. It's called grooming. Isn't limited to children. Watch Abducted in Plain Sight, or read about it, to understand the process and how fucking far things can go.

2) He's dead. They aren't making enough money (if they even are) to put yourself through some this humiliating, this emotionally grueling. Two of them.

3) Groomed to protect him. Scared to fight him. #Metoo has empowered a LOT of people to finally do what needed to be done years ago. Are they liars too?

4) I'm sure even the worst pedophile in the world hasn't sexually assaulted every single child they've been in contact with. I know this personally

5) Investigation is done. The evidence is disgustingly high, even if there is no literally video of him having sex with a child. Look at some posted in this thread. His stash of porn for instance. We needed this documentary to understand HOW Michael can make the above 4 points possible.


Fuck, man. I feel like you watched it with your ears shut.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
You (and people like you) really need to stop parroting these two bullet points as some kind of basis for skepticism. For one, the first point completely shits on the idea that victims could take years to come to grips with the fact that they have been abused. That doesn't mean they are liars.

Secondly, that he didn't abuse every single child he's been around means nothing. Plenty of women were around Cosby and Weinstein and weren't raped. Is that reason to doubt their accusers?

Just stop. It's incredibly shitty and disingenuous.

I don't have to stop. I don't have to blindly accept any allegation without proof as truth as some of you do. I don't and I won't.

I'm a Saint Thomas kind of guy, show me the evidences and I'll say I agree. Where are the evidences ( not allegations ) ?

And don't bring that ramdom footage of MJ with James in a jewelry store. It doesn't prove the sexusl abuse one bit.

Again, there is absolutely nothing new in Leaving Neverland. Those are the "same allegations" as 20 years ago ( as described in the court cases ). We just here here from the victims this time around.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,185
I don't have to stop. I don't have to blind accept any allegation without proof as truth. I don't and I won't.

I'm a Saint Thomas kind of guy, show me the evidences and I'll say I agree. Where is the evidence ?

And don't bring that ramdom footage of MJ with James in a jewelry store. It doesn't prove the sexusl abuse one bit.

Again, there is absolutely nothing new in Leaving Neverland. Those are the "same speculations" as 20 years ago ( as described in the court cases ). We just here here from the victims this time around.

It's not about evidence. It's about parroting those reasons as reasons to discredit accusers of abuse. And it's shitty. And if you do it you are a shitty person.
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
By the way, for all of those feeling guilty of listening to MJs music

I'm listening to Smooth Criminal. The music is still good and makes me jam.
This does not invalidate the man is a pedophile.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
I don't have to stop. I don't have to blindly accept any allegation without proof as truth as some of you do. I don't and I won't.

I'm a Saint Thomas kind of guy, show me the evidences and I'll say I agree. Where are the evidences ( not allegations ) ?

And don't bring that ramdom footage of MJ with James in a jewelry store. It doesn't prove the sexusl abuse one bit.

Again, there is absolutely nothing new in Leaving Neverland. Those are the "same allegations" as 20 years ago ( as described in the court cases ). We just here here from the victims this time around.


I need a video of Michael Jackson abusing a child while singing Smooth Criminal, while the child is holding two forms of government ID, four or five of my buddies there and Neal taking notes...
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
I don't have to stop. I don't have to blindly accept any allegation without proof as truth as some of you do. I don't and I won't.

I'm a Saint Thomas kind of guy, show me the evidences and I'll say I agree. Where are the evidences ( not allegations ) ?

And don't bring that ramdom footage of MJ with James in a jewelry store. It doesn't prove the sexusl abuse one bit.

Again, there is absolutely nothing new in Leaving Neverland. Those are the "same speculations" as 20 years ago ( as described in the court cases ). We just here here from the victims this time around.

Yo man, all the weird porn shit in his house. Him sleeping with kids that aren't his...as a fucking adult man. His fucked up childhood. The corroborated allegations.

It's just....he was weird? That's it? Nothing possibly happened outside of that??

One kid that said he didn't assault him, still said he got inappropriate under the sheets.

But it wasn't THAT bad, right? His hand was OVER the pants...
 

ValiantChaos

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
I don't have to stop. I don't have to blindly accept any allegation without proof as truth as some of you do. I don't and I won't.

I'm a Saint Thomas kind of guy, show me the evidences and I'll say I agree. Where are the evidences ( not allegations ) ?

And don't bring that ramdom footage of MJ with James in a jewelry store. It doesn't prove the sexusl abuse one bit.

Again, there is absolutely nothing new in Leaving Neverland. Those are the "same allegations" as 20 years ago ( as described in the court cases ). We just here here from the victims this time around.
Fair enough. What undeniable proof would there have to be able to be say yes he did do it?
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,185
Yo man, all the weird porn shit in his house. Him sleeping with kids that aren't his...as a fucking adult man. His fucked up childhood. The corroborated allegations.

It's just....he was weird? That's it? Nothing possibly happened outside of that??

One kid that said he didn't assault him, still said he got inappropriate under the sheets.

But it wasn't THAT bad, right? His hand was OVER the pants...

That kid is probably a liar because Macaulay Caulkin.

This is an actual defense these fuckwads are using. They and MJ deserve each other.
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,476
That kid is probably a liar because Macaulay Caulkin.

This is an actual defense these fuckwads are using. They and MJ deserve each other.
They're exactly like Trump supporters. Somehow have done exhaustive research and evidence collection as to why Wade Robson is the devil then are shown a mountain of evidence pointing to Michael Jackson abusing kids and they can't see it or need more evidence. Morons.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,416
I don't have to stop. I don't have to blind accept any allegation without proof as truth. I don't and I won't.

I'm a Saint Thomas kind of guy, show me the evidences and I'll say I agree. Where is the evidence ?

And don't bring that ramdom footage of MJ with James in a jewelry store. It doesn't prove the sexusl abuse one bit.

Again, there is absolutely nothing new in Leaving Neverland. Those are the "same speculations" as 20 years ago ( as described in the court cases ). We just here here from the victims this time around.
there's testimony from 4 abused kids, a maid and a driver afaik. And sexual crimes the corpus delicti is mostly ephemeral, and since you dont have camera recordings you only have testimony to work with.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
there's testimony from 4 abused kids, a maid and a driver afaik. And sexual crimes the corpus delict is mostly ephemeral, and since you dont have camera recordings you only have testimony to work with.
CSI and similar one hour procedural shows have done a number on people believing that "evidence" must mean hard direct evidence (i.e., DNA, video) and that witness testimony and circumstantial evidence is worthless.
 

Znazzy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,241
Watching Leaving Neverland and now seeing this footage, it's definitely very compelling. And I used to always attribute Michael's weird behavior to his fucked up childhood and mentally being that of a child. I'm not so sure about that anymore..

With that being said, in light of situations like Jussie and Johnny Depp where everyone POUNCED at the situation without waiting for evidence and facts, I'm not going to bring out my torch just yet. Am I denying that anything happened? No. Am I listening to the accusers? Yes. But I am still willing to keep an open mind about the situation until there is irrefutable facts.

And for everyone saying that Spotify should remove his music and people should stop listening/playing it at weddings and events.. I like to take the Pete Davidson approach. It's very possible to admit that he was (very likely) a bad person while still being able to listen to his music. I'm not going to riot if I hear his music played at a wedding.
 

Lifendz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,391
Circumstantial evidence is still evidence....and enough of it can lead to a reasonable inference of criminal misconduct. I had my doubts about the claims of James and Wade...Wade moreso, but this video confirms what Michael was. It only makes him even more of a monster if he was calculating enough to only prey on families of limited financial means and restrain himself around child celebs like Feldman and Culkin. He should've died in prison.

Surprised this isn't getting more media coverage. Hopefully if James sees this video it doesn't push him to do something to hurt himself.
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,951
Is it wrong for me to say this thread is making me feel nostalgic, i remember all the non stop is MJ a pedo debates and jokes all the way back when I was in elementary school, it's quite surreal
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
I swear, the MJ status has gone from "He did it" to "he didn't" like 5 times in my life. I feel like the latest round of "he didn't" was because he died and people tried to have closure and just remember the music, but I've always seen it as he did. Could never be a fan because of it. We are back to "he did it" and I think its going to forever stay that way, which I welcome.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,425
Maybe cool it with the blanket statements and strong language. Everyone has had a different experience with the news and history behind this, and calling them names only makes them defensive and obscures the truth.
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
That kid is probably a liar because Macaulay Caulkin.

This is an actual defense these fuckwads are using. They and MJ deserve each other.

The Macaulay argument is such bullshit, because he was already famous when he met Michael. He was an actor, he was almost a peer to MJ. Jackson wowed kids and their families with gifts, trips, promises of help fulfilling their dreams and a celebrity lifestyle. That was a major part of the way he groomed those boys. Think that shit would've worked on the Culkins? It makes a lot of sense that he'd prey on the Safechucks and the Robsons of the world, but would know better than to do some shit with what was at the time by far the most well-known child on the planet. Come on.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Watching Leaving Neverland and now seeing this footage, it's definitely very compelling. And I used to always attribute Michael's weird behavior to his fucked up childhood and mentally being that of a child. I'm not so sure about that anymore..

With that being said, in light of situations like Jussie and Johnny Depp where everyone POUNCED at the situation without waiting for evidence and facts, I'm not going to bring out my torch just yet. Am I denying that anything happened? No. Am I listening to the accusers? Yes. But I am still willing to keep an open mind about the situation until there is irrefutable facts.

And for everyone saying that Spotify should remove his music and people should stop listening/playing it at weddings and events.. I like to take the Pete Davidson approach. It's very possible to admit that he was (very likely) a bad person while still being able to listen to his music. I'm not going to riot if I hear his music played at a wedding.

It amazes me that someone can sincerely say "I like to take the Pete Davidson approach" without any form of irony...

The dude is dead, the abuse happens decades ago, just admit the fact that you won't accept that he was a pedophile. Period. No irrefutable evidence is going to change your mind.