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Oct 25, 2017
1,205
Hey guys,

So i've been going to the gym 6 days a week almost consistently since the start of the year.
My main goal is to lose fat, but also build muscle, to replace all the fat, and so far i've had success with building muscle and getting stronger.
The fat loss part hasn't been as quick as i'd like it to be. I have an excessive amount on my chest, and ofc belly/love handles.

However, my weight itself hasn't changed much. I'm 6'1 and At the beginning of the year I weighed about 96kg/211 lbs. I'm now around 94/207.
Since the start of the year i have been on a deficit of about 500 calories. Maybe more actually. My maintenance is about 3000, but I'm burning abour 5/600 calories on my gym days. So i aim for around 2400 with good macros, usually about 200g of protein and clean carbs per day.

SO I guess my question is.. Does this sound normal? Or am I going wrong somewhere? I'm happy with all this muscle i've grown, but it's all hidden under the fat, so it doesn't look great, yet. I'm gonna be doing a lot more cardio for the next few weeks to further encourage fat loss, whilst continuing the deficit, but I am also confused by my weight. I'm just unsure if what's happening is normal, or whether i'm being unrealistic with how quickly i can lose fat.


Weight hasn't changed can be just muscle growth and fat loss and it canceling each other out. Muscle also weighs a little more than fat.


Were you working out before the start of the year? Because if you are in a deficit, you can still gain muscle and lose fat with a recomp if you haven't worked out in a while prior to this and you could be in that and taking advantage of those newb/new gains.

You could also not be calculating correctly. As others asked above... are you weighing and measuring everything you eat to get that 500 deficit? Sometimes people think they are measuring it all right but actually arent.
 

AdamE

3D Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,050
Japan
You are not in a 500 calorie deficit. Simple as that. You are in a deficit of about 100 I'm guessing. Are you tracking *everything* you are consuming? Are you weighing it to ensure accurate portion sizes recorded?
The scale is not a good tool for new lifters. Before and after photos, strength gains in the gym, and even belt sizes are a much better indicator of your progress.

I can't tell you how many stories i've heard of new lifters distraught over what the scale says when they made massive gains in body comp. Also i've been lifting for 6 years and i still have belly and chest fat despite a low body fat % because that's just where my body stores my fat, there's nothing i can do about it without going to a body fat % that makes people ask if i'm sick. I hate blaming genetics but they are a factor, some peoples body stores fat more evenly than others.
Weight hasn't changed can be just muscle growth and fat loss and it canceling each other out. Muscle also weighs a little more than fat.


Were you working out before the start of the year? Because if you are in a deficit, you can still gain muscle and lose fat with a recomp if you haven't worked out in a while prior to this and you could be in that and taking advantage of those newb/new gains.

You could also not be calculating correctly. As others asked above... are you weighing and measuring everything you eat to get that 500 deficit? Sometimes people think they are measuring it all right but actually arent.


I'm definitely aware it might be the muscle growth cancelling the fat loss, but it seems unlikely that could still continue happening under a deficit? So if i'm somehow unknowingly consuming at maintenance, then that would continue growth I suppose.

I may very well be not in as much of a bigger deficit as I thought. I do measure the food intake I have, except for certain things like fruit. I don't measure the weight of a banana or kiwi, i just count 1 as 1. I've been using my fitness pal to track everything, and right now, I have a pretty sustainable nutrition plan. The dinners are the only thing i struggle with as they get boring. So i may sometimes end up having something a bit extra which would effect things. But even still, i didn't consider that my deficit might not be big enough. I thought it was as big as it should be, because if i go lower, then from what i've read, that becomes ineffective?

I've worked out a way to adjust it down to 2200 a day. Everything is measurable, and uses almost entirely single ingredients. I'm just hoping it doesn't effect my performance at the gym, but that's fine so as long as my fat starts going.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
I'm definitely aware it might be the muscle growth cancelling the fat loss, but it seems unlikely that could still continue happening under a deficit? So if i'm somehow unknowingly consuming at maintenance, then that would continue growth I suppose.

I may very well be not in as much of a bigger deficit as I thought. I do measure the food intake I have, except for certain things like fruit. I don't measure the weight of a banana or kiwi, i just count 1 as 1. I've been using my fitness pal to track everything, and right now, I have a pretty sustainable nutrition plan. The dinners are the only thing i struggle with as they get boring. So i may sometimes end up having something a bit extra which would effect things. But even still, i didn't consider that my deficit might not be big enough. I thought it was as big as it should be, because if i go lower, then from what i've read, that becomes ineffective?

I've worked out a way to adjust it down to 2200 a day. Everything is measurable, and uses almost entirely single ingredients. I'm just hoping it doesn't effect my performance at the gym, but that's fine so as long as my fat starts going.
There are three ways your deficit estimate may be off:

1. MFP estimates your maintenance level. It's not necessarily 100% accurate for you.

2. You are consuming more than you think. Make sure to include cheat meals, condiments, coffee creamer, etc.

3. You are over-estimating exercise calories burned.

How much do you plan to lose? It gets harder as you near the target. This is s good video on it.

youtu.be

Are You Making Gains? Check For This!

Are you building muscle mass every week? Most people can’t tell. As a result, they have no idea if what they’re doing is actually working and end up clueless...
 

Ark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
329
United Kingdom
Never realised we had a Fitness thread here! I've been working on getting to 140kg bench press for 3-5 reps since January 2020, covid has obviously gotten in the way quite a lot in the UK. Spent all of last summer losing all the fat I put on in the first lockdown here, almost hit my goal in December last year and got 135kg bench press two days before our third lockdown.

Had a lot of work to do once things opened up so haven't been able to gym as often as I'd have liked but the last few weeks I've been on it. Hit 120kg for two sets of 5 reps last night and some 35kg dumbbell shoulder press. Hopefully hit 140kg bench by the end of August!

I'm definitely aware it might be the muscle growth cancelling the fat loss, but it seems unlikely that could still continue happening under a deficit? So if i'm somehow unknowingly consuming at maintenance, then that would continue growth I suppose.

I may very well be not in as much of a bigger deficit as I thought. I do measure the food intake I have, except for certain things like fruit. I don't measure the weight of a banana or kiwi, i just count 1 as 1. I've been using my fitness pal to track everything, and right now, I have a pretty sustainable nutrition plan. The dinners are the only thing i struggle with as they get boring. So i may sometimes end up having something a bit extra which would effect things. But even still, i didn't consider that my deficit might not be big enough. I thought it was as big as it should be, because if i go lower, then from what i've read, that becomes ineffective?

I've worked out a way to adjust it down to 2200 a day. Everything is measurable, and uses almost entirely single ingredients. I'm just hoping it doesn't effect my performance at the gym, but that's fine so as long as my fat starts going.

Your numbers must be wrong if you're not losing fat as fast as you think you should be. For starters, your maintenance calories are definitely not 3000 if you're 6ft1 and weigh 94/96kg and you've only been working out for the last six months.

For reference I'm 6ft4(194cm) and weigh ~108kg and I've been weight lifting specifically for effectively two years (three years if you count the year lost to covid ffs) and my maintenance calories are about ~2700 (rounded up). My bulking calorie target is 3000-3500.

Use this calculator to get a good estimate of your maintenance calories. Make sure you put your job as sedentary, leave bodyfat alone unless you have a good idea.

You've probably calculated a 100 calorie deficit but that actually turns into maintenance/small bulk because of things you forget to count. Such as an extra piece of fruit, extra bit of bacon, condiments, drinks that have calories, milk in your coffee, etc etc. 200-500 kcal deficits are usually ideal because they're sustainable. I target a 500 kcal deficit knowing full well that if I lapse and have a little extra food, I'll still end up in a 200 calorie deficit at least. Also don't include calories burned into your daily targets.
 

AdamE

3D Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,050
Japan
There are three ways your deficit estimate may be off:

1. MFP estimates your maintenance level. It's not necessarily 100% accurate for you.

2. You are consuming more than you think. Make sure to include cheat meals, condiments, coffee creamer, etc.

3. You are over-estimating exercise calories burned.

How much do you plan to lose? It gets harder as you near the target. This is s good video on it.

youtu.be

Are You Making Gains? Check For This!

Are you building muscle mass every week? Most people can’t tell. As a result, they have no idea if what they’re doing is actually working and end up clueless...

Yeah I've been checking out his vids, as well as Jeff Nippard, Athlean x and recently shredded sports science. Just trying to get a consensus on certain things, but those suggestion you mentioned are logical and sensible. I know i messed up a lot in the beginning by adding in unnecessary calories (really dumb example, but having mayo with my eggs in the morning...)
My body fat % is defo around the 20% mark. I'm definitely at a stage where i really should imagine burning fat shouldn't be this hard for me. I know it get's harder once you reach 12% but i'm -definitely- not there yet. I was steadily losing weight around May, but then I started taking creatine, and i slightly increased my calories because i was lacking energy at the gym. Needed more carbs. And my weight went up a teeny bit, but stayed around the 94 mark, and i just assumed it was water weight. But it's been like that for over a month now, so obviously something's not right.

Also I have an apple watch which i use to track my calories, and i always aim to hit my 900 calorie per day mark, but fully aware that it's likely more towards 500, since i don't expect it to be accurate.

Your numbers must be wrong if you're not losing fat as fast as you think you should be. For starters, your maintenance calories are definitely not 3000 if you're 6ft1 and weigh 94/96kg and you've only been working out for the last six months.

For reference I'm 6ft4(194cm) and weigh ~108kg and I've been weight lifting specifically for effectively two years (three years if you count the year lost to covid ffs) and my maintenance calories are about ~2700 (rounded up). My bulking calorie target is 3000-3500.

Use this calculator to get a good estimate of your maintenance calories. Make sure you put your job as sedentary, leave bodyfat alone unless you have a good idea.

You've probably calculated a 100 calorie deficit but that actually turns into maintenance/small bulk because of things you forget to count. Such as an extra piece of fruit, extra bit of bacon, condiments, drinks that have calories, milk in your coffee, etc etc. 200-500 kcal deficits are usually ideal because they're sustainable. I target a 500 kcal deficit knowing full well that if I lapse and have a little extra food, I'll still end up in a 200 calorie deficit at least. Also don't include calories burned into your daily targets.

Okay, so my maintenance according to that is 2310. All the time i started the deficit based on my activity level as well. Was i supposed to calculate it from my sedentary level all this time?? Because that's a mighty big fuck up on my part if that's the case xD.

This makes much more sense now, because i know i'll have a small snack that's never more than about 150 calories if i'm really craving something. I have a cheat meal, but i usually save on calories on that day, so i can try staying within the limit.
So ideally, i should start by going down to 2100, and maybe lowering by a hundred each week till i hit the 18-1900 number?

Super appreciate the advice guys!
 

Ark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
329
United Kingdom
Okay, so my maintenance according to that is 2310. All the time i started the deficit based on my activity level as well. Was i supposed to calculate it from my sedentary level all this time?? Because that's a mighty big fuck up on my part if that's the case xD.

This makes much more sense now, because i know i'll have a small snack that's never more than about 150 calories if i'm really craving something. I have a cheat meal, but i usually save on calories on that day, so i can try staying within the limit.
So ideally, i should start by going down to 2100, and maybe lowering by a hundred each week till i hit the 18-1900 number?

Super appreciate the advice guys!

2310 sounds much more realistic! You want to base your daily calories on your sedentary activity because it's the most accurate way to measure it. Your Applewatch is also hugely overestimating your actual calorie expenditure.

Any activity be it walking to work, cardio, weight lifting, whatever it is, doesn't get included into your eating calories for the day. If you put yourself into a deficit of 300 calories purely within your nutrition, and you do 500 calories-worth of cardio, that's a net daily deficit of 800 calories.

If you skip cardio for the day and sit around playing video games all day, well congrats, you've still been in a deficit of 300 calories and your body is still burning more energy than it's consuming, ergo you're losing fat.

You don't need to keep on lowering calories each week. What's important is that your calorie deficit is sustainable, i.e you don't give in to cravings/relapse all the time. I find 300-500kcals to be the sweet spot for me. If you've been in a 300 kcal deficit for about 6 weeks and you're starting to see a plateau of weight loss, then perhaps it's time to increase the deficit by another 100 calories or increase energy expenditure (cardio) by 100 calories.

Personally I find it much, much easier to maintain a large calorie deficit through cardio than through eating less and less. Experiment with it and see what works for you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,205
I'm definitely aware it might be the muscle growth cancelling the fat loss, but it seems unlikely that could still continue happening under a deficit? So if i'm somehow unknowingly consuming at maintenance, then that would continue growth I suppose.

You quoted my post where I said that gaining muscle in a deficit is possible with fat loss happening at the same time

Your original post above says you know you've gained a lot of muscle since you began at the start of the year and this was supposedly under a deficit as you've stated.

But now you are questioning how you are gaining muscle in a deficit and how that's possible all within a few hours.

So what is it? Because I'm super confused on your posts.

As others said, you probably are miscalculating things and based off your maintenance and not fully tracking some things (the "a little extra"), you probably weren't in a large deficit like you originally assumed.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
Ark AdamE

Ark, I was agreeing with everything in your posts until this sentence I either misread or misunderstood:

"Also don't include calories burned into your daily targets."

If you choose sedentary, as most of us probably should, and we're eating at a deficit then burn 400 more calories in a workout, it's fair to eat up to 400 more surely? That's the way MFP does it. It's probably better too to take in say 2500 good quality calories while burning 400, than to take in 2100 with no additional exercise. You have the benefit of the workout and the benefit of more nutrients, while still at the same deficit.

AdamE, that 2310 maintenance target sounds much more reasonable. Yes, you can build muscle in a slight deficit. When you're gaining weight you'll gain both muscle and fat, and when losing weight you'll lose both too, with muscle loss mitigated by high protein intake plus lifting. You don't need a calorie surplus to build muscle, you need an energy surplus, and that can come from your fat reserves (to a point, your deficit should be 10%-20% not higher).

You can get a clearer sense of your current maintenance levels (it will decline as you lose weight) by weighing yourself daily, taking a 7-day average of that, and compare it with your calories. Or we can save the effort and conclude that you aren't in a sufficient deficit because you aren't losing weight, so try going down 200-300 daily and see how that works for you.

Your watch may have been over-stating calories burned, and you may have been double counting those with the initial calculation set above sedentary level. Cardio machines often over-state calories burned by up to 10%, so I take off 10% from what my stationary bike says. For weights, it's hard to get a good estimate how many calories a session burns. I think this article provides a decent ballpark. Bear in mind you'll burn 1 MET at rest, so if you estimate you're doing 4 MET's for an hour, that's 3 additional MET which in your case is just under 300.

At rest (like when you're watching Netflix), your body is working at 1 MET, the equivalent of burning 1 calorie per kilogram of body weight per hour. (For a 150-pound person, that's about 68 calories burned lifting weights per hour.)

When lifting weights, your body works at anywhere from 3 METs (if you're putting in light effort) to 6 METs (if you're really working your butt off). For a 150-pound person, that's anywhere between 200 and 400 calories per hour.

Of course, though, "everyone is different," says Aleksandra Sulik, CPT, trainer at Life Time SKY in New York City.

A number of factors—including how much you weigh and how much muscle you have—all influence how many calories you burn lifting weights. In fact, one person may burn more than 100 calories more or less than someone else during a 30-minute weights sesh.


www.shape.com

How Many Calories Do You Burn Lifting Weights?

Dumbbells are about to become your new best friends.
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,305
Australia
I really need to cut. I've been on a bulk since early last year eating ~4k Cals, I've gone up nearly 10Kg and most hasn't been muscle. I was squatting and deadlifting this morning and I could really see the outline of flab though my t-shirt lol.
But non of my lifts (other than rows for some reason) are back to pre-covid maxes so I still want to get them up.

Anyway thanks for reading my rant.
 

Ark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
329
United Kingdom
Ark AdamE

Ark, I was agreeing with everything in your posts until this sentence I either misread or misunderstood:

"Also don't include calories burned into your daily targets."

If you choose sedentary, as most of us probably should, and we're eating at a deficit then burn 400 more calories in a workout, it's fair to eat up to 400 more surely? That's the way MFP does it. It's probably better too to take in say 2500 good quality calories while burning 400, than to take in 2100 with no additional exercise. You have the benefit of the workout and the benefit of more nutrients, while still at the same deficit.

The entire point of moving into a calorie deficit from a calorie surplus (or maintenance) - in bodybuilding terms, is to lose fat. To lose fat you need to be in a calorie deficit and continue lifting at a high intensity while consuming an adequate amount of protein each day.

The reason you don't include your calories burned into your overall target calories for the day is two-fold:

1) It's impossible to accurately measure how many calories you've actually burned. Fitness trackers like Apple Watch or Fitbits are wrong because they either a) don't have the tech to be right or b) want you to think you're burning more than you are so you keep spending money on their eco system

2) People can't be trusted to stick to it. You're not eating an extra 400 calories because you burned 400 calories walking to the shop for an hour, you're eating them because you lack the discipline to stick to the calorie target you've set yourself. This is exactly the kind of mentality that leads to people failing to reach their fat loss/weight loss goals.

AdamE's post literally encapsulates the above.

You also need to remember that everyone significantly overestimates their ability to burn calories and eat way more food than they really should be when trying to lose fat. Fat loss is easy in the sense that it requires no physical effort, unlike gaining muscle which requires immense physical effort, but it requires immense mental strength to maintain the discipline required for fat loss. The reason MFP allows you to include calories burned into your workout is so that you feel better about being able to eat more food while using their app and viewing their ads so you slow down your own weight loss and keep using their services for longer.

If you're in a 400 calorie nutritional deficit and you do 450 calories of cardio that day, by all means, eat something extra worth 100-200 calories, but if you eat 450 calories worth of food you've completely nullified the cardio you did in the first place and more than likely over-eaten and actually shrunk your nutritional deficit.

Restricting your calorie intake sucks, we're biologically hardwired to eat all the food we want. Why on Earth would you want to delay the process by eating the calories you're burning through cardio? It's a monumental waste of time and effort. The entire reason I do more cardio on a cut is to increase my net calorie deficit to increase the pace at which I'm losing weight and ensuring I'm always in a 500+ calorie deficit regardless of what I eat (no one is perfectly disciplined every day of a cut, also helps to offset an inevitable cheat meal every week).

I really need to cut. I've been on a bulk since early last year eating ~4k Cals, I've gone up nearly 10Kg and most hasn't been muscle. I was squatting and deadlifting this morning and I could really see the outline of flab though my t-shirt lol.
But non of my lifts (other than rows for some reason) are back to pre-covid maxes so I still want to get them up.

Anyway thanks for reading my rant.

Maybe cut for a while and then transition back into a bulk?
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
I really need to cut. I've been on a bulk since early last year eating ~4k Cals, I've gone up nearly 10Kg and most hasn't been muscle. I was squatting and deadlifting this morning and I could really see the outline of flab though my t-shirt lol.
But non of my lifts (other than rows for some reason) are back to pre-covid maxes so I still want to get them up.

Anyway thanks for reading my rant.

My life

"I'm happy with my strength but i'm starting to get fat, i should be a bodybuilder"

*6 months later*

"I'm happy with how i look, but i want to be strong again, i should become a power lifter"

It's an endless cycle.
 

Shiloh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,710
I don't know if its a combination of getting older and actually putting on muscle, but running out in the summer sun is giving me heat rash this year for this first time in my life. Going to try a lighter/looser shirt going forward, gladly accepting other tips on preventative and ongoing care.
 

AdamE

3D Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,050
Japan
You quoted my post where I said that gaining muscle in a deficit is possible with fat loss happening at the same time

Your original post above says you know you've gained a lot of muscle since you began at the start of the year and this was supposedly under a deficit as you've stated.

But now you are questioning how you are gaining muscle in a deficit and how that's possible all within a few hours.

So what is it? Because I'm super confused on your posts.

As others said, you probably are miscalculating things and based off your maintenance and not fully tracking some things (the "a little extra"), you probably weren't in a large deficit like you originally assumed.

I was super confused too, but based on the fact that i've gained muscle, but haven't seemingly lost as much fat as i honestly think should have, it sounds more like i miscalculated and i've either been on a really small deficit or none at all.

Ark AdamE

Ark, I was agreeing with everything in your posts until this sentence I either misread or misunderstood:

"Also don't include calories burned into your daily targets."

If you choose sedentary, as most of us probably should, and we're eating at a deficit then burn 400 more calories in a workout, it's fair to eat up to 400 more surely? That's the way MFP does it. It's probably better too to take in say 2500 good quality calories while burning 400, than to take in 2100 with no additional exercise. You have the benefit of the workout and the benefit of more nutrients, while still at the same deficit.

AdamE, that 2310 maintenance target sounds much more reasonable. Yes, you can build muscle in a slight deficit. When you're gaining weight you'll gain both muscle and fat, and when losing weight you'll lose both too, with muscle loss mitigated by high protein intake plus lifting. You don't need a calorie surplus to build muscle, you need an energy surplus, and that can come from your fat reserves (to a point, your deficit should be 10%-20% not higher).

You can get a clearer sense of your current maintenance levels (it will decline as you lose weight) by weighing yourself daily, taking a 7-day average of that, and compare it with your calories. Or we can save the effort and conclude that you aren't in a sufficient deficit because you aren't losing weight, so try going down 200-300 daily and see how that works for you.

Your watch may have been over-stating calories burned, and you may have been double counting those with the initial calculation set above sedentary level. Cardio machines often over-state calories burned by up to 10%, so I take off 10% from what my stationary bike says. For weights, it's hard to get a good estimate how many calories a session burns. I think this article provides a decent ballpark. Bear in mind you'll burn 1 MET at rest, so if you estimate you're doing 4 MET's for an hour, that's 3 additional MET which in your case is just under 300.

At rest (like when you're watching Netflix), your body is working at 1 MET, the equivalent of burning 1 calorie per kilogram of body weight per hour. (For a 150-pound person, that's about 68 calories burned lifting weights per hour.)

When lifting weights, your body works at anywhere from 3 METs (if you're putting in light effort) to 6 METs (if you're really working your butt off). For a 150-pound person, that's anywhere between 200 and 400 calories per hour.

Of course, though, "everyone is different," says Aleksandra Sulik, CPT, trainer at Life Time SKY in New York City.

A number of factors—including how much you weigh and how much muscle you have—all influence how many calories you burn lifting weights. In fact, one person may burn more than 100 calories more or less than someone else during a 30-minute weights sesh.

www.shape.com

How Many Calories Do You Burn Lifting Weights?

Dumbbells are about to become your new best friends.

The entire point of moving into a calorie deficit from a calorie surplus (or maintenance) - in bodybuilding terms, is to lose fat. To lose fat you need to be in a calorie deficit and continue lifting at a high intensity while consuming an adequate amount of protein each day.

The reason you don't include your calories burned into your overall target calories for the day is two-fold:

1) It's impossible to accurately measure how many calories you've actually burned. Fitness trackers like Apple Watch or Fitbits are wrong because they either a) don't have the tech to be right or b) want you to think you're burning more than you are so you keep spending money on their eco system

2) People can't be trusted to stick to it. You're not eating an extra 400 calories because you burned 400 calories walking to the shop for an hour, you're eating them because you lack the discipline to stick to the calorie target you've set yourself. This is exactly the kind of mentality that leads to people failing to reach their fat loss/weight loss goals.

AdamE's post literally encapsulates the above.

You also need to remember that everyone significantly overestimates their ability to burn calories and eat way more food than they really should be when trying to lose fat. Fat loss is easy in the sense that it requires no physical effort, unlike gaining muscle which requires immense physical effort, but it requires immense mental strength to maintain the discipline required for fat loss. The reason MFP allows you to include calories burned into your workout is so that you feel better about being able to eat more food while using their app and viewing their ads so you slow down your own weight loss and keep using their services for longer.

If you're in a 400 calorie nutritional deficit and you do 450 calories of cardio that day, by all means, eat something extra worth 100-200 calories, but if you eat 450 calories worth of food you've completely nullified the cardio you did in the first place and more than likely over-eaten and actually shrunk your nutritional deficit.

Restricting your calorie intake sucks, we're biologically hardwired to eat all the food we want. Why on Earth would you want to delay the process by eating the calories you're burning through cardio? It's a monumental waste of time and effort. The entire reason I do more cardio on a cut is to increase my net calorie deficit to increase the pace at which I'm losing weight and ensuring I'm always in a 500+ calorie deficit regardless of what I eat (no one is perfectly disciplined every day of a cut, also helps to offset an inevitable cheat meal every week).

See, this is where I've been getting confused a bunch xD
I'm gonna follow the deficit without really including whatever calories I've burnt via exercise.

I'm still a beginner so I've already noticed a lot of the mistakes i've made over the past few months. Miscalculating my calorie intake is certainly one of them. Fortunately it wasn't a waste, I just unknowingly didn't prioritise my main goal. But i'm gonna apply this knowledge and see how it goes. I've been able to easily readjust my daily nutrition, and I can be fairly strict with it because i don't really get super hungry during the day. My main concern is more my performance at the gym.

I know the first couple months, I realised i wasn't putting in as much effort as i could have. I was focusing too much on what my watch was saying, and thinking, oh great, the numbers are going up, so that's fine. But i was barely breaking a sweat, which didn't seem right. So I know i was over estimating my calories that i was burning. Now, i know how to really push it as much as i can at the gym, and i pay more attention to my heart rate than anything else. So that helps. And even though my daily target is 900 calories on my watch, whenever i reach that, i just remove half of that and kinda take that as the rough daily number burnt.

Regardless, i'll be attempting 2100 a day, and will see how that goes over the next couple of weeks.
I'm also gonna attempt intermittent fasting. So my eating window will be 12-8.
 
Oct 27, 2017
797
Berkeley, CA
Are protein powders safe to use? Some of the top google queries give mixed views (e.g. one from Harvard Health). If they're actually safe, are there any specific brands/products that y'all recommend? I haven't been able to reach my protein goals (calculated from the damnripped site in the OP) according to MFP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,205
Are protein powders safe to use? Some of the top google queries give mixed views (e.g. one from Harvard Health). If they're actually safe, are there any specific brands/products that y'all recommend? I haven't been able to reach my protein goals (calculated from the damnripped site in the OP) according to MFP.
They are fine.

Anything rated well is typically fine (rated as in user reviews on Bodybuilding.com or even Amazon tbh)

I personally use MyProtein. A bunch use Optimum Nutrition or Dymatize ISO100. There is Labdoor.com which also rates proteins.

I should note that make sure you learn about the differences in Casein and Whey. Whey being a faster absorbing protein and Casein being slower absorbing. Also Isolates vs non-Isolate if you care about carbs/calorie efficiency.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
Are protein powders safe to use? Some of the top google queries give mixed views (e.g. one from Harvard Health). If they're actually safe, are there any specific brands/products that y'all recommend? I haven't been able to reach my protein goals (calculated from the damnripped site in the OP) according to MFP.
Absolutely. You may have issues if you are lactose intolerant, but maybe not.

I prefer Dymatize Iso 100, or if I can't get a good price on that then Optimum Nutrition is a perfectly good substitute. They're a good combo of price and quality imo. Isolates > non isolates, but you're probably min-maxing by that point. The main thing to look for is probably how many of the calories come from protein. Generally, the higher the better of course. I'd recommend a hand blender too, since some brands mix better with milk/water than others.

Costco sells Dymatize cheaper but they sell the stevia version, which is a plus for some people, but I haven't much liked the taste of the Costco ones I've tried. Too bland.
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,152
Isolates are much better for lactose intolerance too. And mixing with Lactofree milk too.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915
I was super confused too, but based on the fact that i've gained muscle, but haven't seemingly lost as much fat as i honestly think should have, it sounds more like i miscalculated and i've either been on a really small deficit or none at all.
Also consider that you need 3 things to build muscle: a stimulus (exercise), material (protein, vitamins/minerals etc), and energy. If you have extra weight you are trying to shed, those stores will and can be used as energy. You can be in a deficit and still achieve all 3 of those prerequisites because you have an overabundance of energy already without having to consume calories.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
Are protein powders safe to use? Some of the top google queries give mixed views (e.g. one from Harvard Health). If they're actually safe, are there any specific brands/products that y'all recommend? I haven't been able to reach my protein goals (calculated from the damnripped site in the OP) according to MFP.

I haven't read anything that's its any more or less safe than other dairy products. But if you're worried about dairy then you can always go with a plant based powder, the macros are usually the same as their whey counter parts, you just have to use a bit more milk or water because they tend to be thick.
 

Mango Polo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
488
I need advice on setting up a new at-home routine. The challenge is, I can't really use my legs.

Over the last 3.5 years I've progressively shelved exercising due to significant knee pain. Last year I had an arthroscopy that further killed exercising. That one didn't heal well, so two months ago I had a second arthroscopy. This one is seemingly going way better.

I'm at the point where I can do pushups and some planking again without triggering pain in the knee, so that's been motivating me to do more again. Though any kind of lifting requires me to be sitting, I still can't put pressure on the knee.

I have access to the following:
  • 2x dumbbells (4.5kg each)
  • 4x 0.5kg plates
  • 4x 1kg plates
  • 2x 2kg plates
  • 2x 5kg plates
  • Indoor bike, gym ball, flat bench

Current physiotherapy workout is just leg stretches, step-ups/down and indoor cycling.

Any ideas on what to do? It's absolutely not going to be a comprehensive upper body workout given my knee and at-home limitations, but I'd like to start easing myself back into a day to day routine beyond the recovery physio stuff.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,096
Doing a trial of the RP app since I heard good things. I find it way too complex. And the protein recs are always too high.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
Your body will convert excess protein into glycogen but less efficiently than a carb source.

So proper protein with proper carbs is more optimal than excess protein and less carbs.
 

Endymion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
749
Doing a trial of the RP app since I heard good things. I find it way too complex. And the protein recs are always too high.
What do you find complex about it exactly? And why do you find the protein recommendations high? All of the science behind it is explained and there are tons of people with great results using it.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,096
What do you find complex about it exactly? And why do you find the protein recommendations high? All of the science behind it is explained and there are tons of people with great results using it.
180 Grams of protein in 3 meals is 60 grams per meal. I'm having a hard time hitting that.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
180 Grams of protein in 3 meals is 60 grams per meal. I'm having a hard time hitting that.
180 seems high? But anyway, does it need to be three meals? Protein shake at breakfast, plus another one or two during the day, plus two regular meals, maybe a high protein snack too of a yogurt or bar. That'll get you there.
 

Endymion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
749
180 Grams of protein in 3 meals is 60 grams per meal. I'm having a hard time hitting that.
RP tends to favor at least four meals, I think the app used to not even let you select three. Also if you're on a cut it'll have you eating more protein than if you were maintaining or bulking. But yeah, I'd just mix in some protein-focused snacks throughout the day. I do four meals (five on Sunday since I train in the morning) but only two are actual "meals," the other two are protein-focused desserts because I like my sweets. :P
 

mujun

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,854
I was wondering about my upper body routine. Any critiques would be welcome.

I do it twice a week.

It's 4 sets of 10 skull crushers (17kgs in each hand)
4 sets of 10 seated shoulder presses (17kgs each time)
4 sets of 10 seated alternating dumbbell curls (20kgs in each hand)
4 sets of 10 one arm dumbbell rows on a bench (22kgs each time)
4 sets of 10 shrugs (22kgs in each hand)
4 sets of dumbbell bench presses (25kgs in each hand)
 

xGeneral Ice

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,952
  • Age: 29
  • Height: 5"10
  • Weight: 200
  • Goal: 180.
  • Current Training Schedule: 5 days a week, ranging from 60 minutes to 70. Alternating from upper body to lower body.
  • Current Training Equipment Available: Equipment at 24 hour fitness.
  • Comments:
So I've been going to the gym for 3 1/2 months now and I've been feeling great about it. It's become something I look forward to. I can see a huge difference from when I first started to now. However, after weighing myself recently, I wasn't happy with the results. Now I know that muscle will weigh more than far but I would have thought that I would at least be under 200 by now. I've also been trying to keep myself on a caloric deficit in order to lose weight but I feel like it's been helping me lose body fat rather than weight. Which I'm not complaining about cause I can see my muscles more and the veins are popping out lol. But I still have a lot of belly fat and love handles. Also not as much as I used to, I know that for a fact. My calories burned on the days I workout usually range from 1300-1500 and I stick around to near 1000 calories a day as well as take a protein shake (with water) as the only supplement I take. I've also have cut most dairy intake from my diet after drinking milk everyday for most of my life. So I've been watching what I eat after being so frequent with fast food.





I also know I should incorporate more core exercise, but I don't know where to begin with that in order to lose the belly fat.



To be honest, I don't think I have a clear goal with what I want. Overall, I want to lose weight. Maybe around 180ish area, but 175 would be a goal. But I also want to be strong and look good too as well. I guess I just need some guidance in what to do. So I would appreciate some help. If I had to choose, I would like to lose more weight. I was thinking about maybe adding cardio to my day. I go to the gym after I get out of work, which would be around 5 pm so me waking up and doing a 2 mile run early was something I would envision on. Any thoughts, tips, roasts anyone can give me?
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
mujun

51lzio.png


My 2c.

Add more chest/back, instead of just four sets for each. Take that time from the isolation tris/bis sets and maybe the shrugs. Do the arms isolation sets last, and instead of 4x10 for those, maybe add a little weight then do supersets or two to three more sets to failure with minimal rest time. That will take less time than 4x10 plus rest, and work you harder at the end.

Chest. Do three sets each of a couple of these: flat press, incline press with supine grip, floor fly's. I'd suggest one press plus the fly's.
Back. Do three sets each of a couple of these: one armed row, incline seal row, pullovers. Probably one of the rows plus pullovers. Make sure your dumbbell collars are good though, since you're probably holding it vertical. You may want to put two collars on the upper end since otherwise that one will be bearing the entire weight.
Shoulders. Add in isolation six-ways at the end some times (lateral, rotate to front, raise overhead, lower to front, rotate to side, lower to waist, repeat). Do one less shoulder press set if time is an issue. You'll feel the burn on this one even with maybe just the dumbbell with no plates added.
Bis. Mix it up some. One arm preacher curl on incline, robot curls, spider curls, etc.
Tris. Mix it up some. One arm French press, skullcrusher, dips (if you have nowhere for full body, use bench, palms sideways).
 
Last edited:

Jamesways

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,240
Minneapolis
Got another InBody scan this past week. Comparing to the scans the last 3 years, I'm not at the lowest weight, but at the lowest BF% and have more lean muscle each extremity and trunk.

I'm 3% less BF than the scan almost exactly a year ago. That's great, I'll take it.

Cross-Training really works for me. I do a combo of kickboxing, garage CrossFit, Orange Theory 2 mornings a week (just to spend time with my gal pal), and martial arts training. I'm close to turning 48 and I'm in some of the best shape of my life. I'm finally back to teaching martial arts too.

Thanks divorce. hahah

I still drink too much but even that I've cut quite a bit. I'm so glad I did something about my health 4 years ago, got back to exercise and dropped 50 pounds. Now I feel like I'm a good role model health wise for my kids too.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
Nori Chan It sounds like you're making progress, and if you're not far from your weight goal it will be going slower. Look at this video below for tips on seeing progress that are harder than the scale alone will tell you. I passed on the suggestion here of a scale to track various body fat metrics as I was put off by how inaccurate they apparently are.

At the end of the day, if you're maintaining the same weight than you must be at maintenance calories. Perhaps you are over-estimating your calories burned from exercise, or under-estimating your intake. You can still build muscle and lose fat doing that, but you won't lose weight. Cardio will burn more calories than resistance training in the same amount of time, but you shouldn't neglect resistance training of course. Do you use something like MyFitnessPal to track your calories? It's a massive help.

www.youtube.com

Are You Making Gains? Check For This!

Are you building muscle mass every week? Most people can’t tell. As a result, they have no idea if what they’re doing is actually working and end up clueless...
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
Bought some gymnast ring, one of my best purchases ever.
Preach! Only €22 and would still be worth it at ten times the price. I actually got back to training recently as I've injured my left shoulder earlier this year (the most fragile thing on the planet) and am only gradually regaining confidence to push myself. Here's me earlier today:

I'm looking forward to being able to do forward rolls again, as I've lost quite a bit of strength sadly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,568
That youtube influencer is suggesting using those common BF scales which are known to be influenced by water weight... I would not take that into heavy account. Your water weight is not going to be consistent. They also only scan a portion of your lower body to estimate your total body fat. So if you lose fat in your midsection it may not even show up. Or if you gain fat in your lower body, you may get an overestimate. It's not just inaccurate by 3% and it's always 3% off, because when measured over time that's just not true.
 

mujun

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,854
mujun

51lzio.png


My 2c.

Add more chest/back, instead of just four sets for each. Take that time from the isolation tris/bis sets and maybe the shrugs. Do the arms isolation sets last, and instead of 4x10 for those, maybe add a little weight then do supersets or two to three more sets to failure with minimal rest time. That will take less time than 4x10 plus rest, and work you harder at the end.

Chest. Do three sets each of a couple of these: flat press, incline press with supine grip, floor fly's. I'd suggest one press plus the fly's.
Back. Do three sets each of a couple of these: one armed row, incline seal row, pullovers. Probably one of the rows plus pullovers. Make sure your dumbbell collars are good though, since you're probably holding it vertical. You may want to put two collars on the upper end since otherwise that one will be bearing the entire weight.
Shoulders. Add in isolation six-ways at the end some times (lateral, rotate to front, raise overhead, lower to front, rotate to side, lower to waist, repeat). Do one less shoulder press set if time is an issue. You'll feel the burn on this one even with maybe just the dumbbell with no plates added.
Bis. Mix it up some. One arm preacher curl on incline, robot curls, spider curls, etc.
Tris. Mix it up some. One arm French press, skullcrusher, dips (if you have nowhere for full body, use bench, palms sideways).

Thanks for the advice! I'll give your suggestions a try.
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,152
I was wondering about my upper body routine. Any critiques would be welcome.

I do it twice a week.

It's 4 sets of 10 skull crushers (17kgs in each hand)
4 sets of 10 seated shoulder presses (17kgs each time)
4 sets of 10 seated alternating dumbbell curls (20kgs in each hand)
4 sets of 10 one arm dumbbell rows on a bench (22kgs each time)
4 sets of 10 shrugs (22kgs in each hand)
4 sets of dumbbell bench presses (25kgs in each hand)

A couple thoughts...

You should progressive overload somehow each time. Either increase the weight or increase the reps. You aren't getting much out of 4 sets of 10 @ 20kgs week in, week out. 20kg one week, 21kg the next, 22kg the next and so on - that'll get you some decent progress. Increasing the reps is an option too, but at some point increase the weight and bring reps back down to start working up again, you can't increase reps indefinitely and 10 is already on the higher side (but fine!)

Your bench press should not be the most heavily loaded out of these exercise imo, especially a list containing shrugs. Rough guess I'd say with 25s for bench, you could prob do like 60 for shrugs - most people I know needed to use straps for their shrugs since they couldn't hold on the the weights otherwise! Rows could go a lot heavier too I imagine.
 

mujun

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,854
A couple thoughts...

You should progressive overload somehow each time. Either increase the weight or increase the reps. You aren't getting much out of 4 sets of 10 @ 20kgs week in, week out. 20kg one week, 21kg the next, 22kg the next and so on - that'll get you some decent progress. Increasing the reps is an option too, but at some point increase the weight and bring reps back down to start working up again, you can't increase reps indefinitely and 10 is already on the higher side (but fine!)

Your bench press should not be the most heavily loaded out of these exercise imo, especially a list containing shrugs. Rough guess I'd say with 25s for bench, you could prob do like 60 for shrugs - most people I know needed to use straps for their shrugs since they couldn't hold on the the weights otherwise! Rows could go a lot heavier too I imagine.

That's useful advice! Thanks a lot.
 

DMVfan123

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,361
Virginia
When doing burpees, do you guys spread your legs out when exploding back up or keep them tucked in to your body? Found that keeping them wide causes less strain overall to my legs