Fitness |OT| A New Era Begins

Tuorom · Dec 11, 2018

Socreges said:
I can think of three not insignificant problems with not wearing shoes to a gym but you do you

I am interested to know what these are.
I wear socks still if one of these was picking up bacteria related. Grip is not an issue if that is also a problem.
Hmmmm.....ankle stiffness is not a problem if you're thinking roll overs. Protection? Nah a weight will fuck your foot up regardless.

I've been doing it for years and never noticed any problems or significant stressors to make me reconsider it.

Something Creative · Dec 11, 2018

Psychotext said:
I'm interested. What have you got?

*begins to sweat profusely* uhhh

In response to "barefoot":
- stepping on shit or just a dirty floor
- having equipment potentially dropped on your feet
- some gyms require footwear

Dead Prince said:
i think he wears socks. i see people and ive done the whole no shoe thing. its not like im walking around the gym with no shoes. just within the rack radius

Ah OK that makes more sense

And thanks, I'll grab some cheap chucks to start. May find myself going pure and naked after a few months

Psychotext · Dec 11, 2018

Yeah, a shoe isn't going to do anything vs a weight dropping on your foot. :P

I tend to deadlift in socks, but I have my own gym setup so I could do it completely naked with no worries. I do prefer shoes generally though.

Something Creative · Dec 11, 2018

Psychotext said:
Yeah, a shoe isn't going to do anything vs a weight dropping on your foot. :P

I take your point but nails and skin, dude. Would dull the impact a little, too.

Anyway, not crucial. And less important if you're all talking about socks and not actually barefoot

If I had my own gym setup I would definitely see the attraction of just doing it in socks

Deleted member 11069 · Dec 11, 2018

I'm getting a bit bored by the usual 5/3/1 BBB thing, it takes so fucking long to get done with the main lift (and BBB) that I have no energy for Tabata or other conditioning. Got a new baby at home, might explain my lack of enthusiasm/energy.
Is there a nice "powerbuilding" program someone here likes?
Might also just "cut down" on the weight or reps and put more "fun things" in like curls and stuff. Dumb? Advice?

ArkhamFantasy · Dec 11, 2018

supervga said:
I'm getting a bit bored by the usual 5/3/1 BBB thing, it takes so fucking long to get done with the main lift (and BBB) that I have no energy for Tabata or other conditioning. Got a new baby at home, might explain my lack of enthusiasm/energy.
Is there a nice "powerbuilding" program someone here likes?
Might also just "cut down" on the weight or reps and put more "fun things" in like curls and stuff. Dumb? Advice?

The Johnny Candito program i'm on right now allows for optional bodybuilding outside of the main lifts. I'm usually done with my Squats/Deadlifts within 30 minutes, 40 max depending on what week it is in the program.

Deleted member 11069 · Dec 11, 2018

ArkhamFantasy said:
The Johnny Candito program i'm on right now allows for optional bodybuilding outside of the main lifts. I'm usually done with my Squats/Deadlifts within 30 minutes, 40 max depending on what week it is in the program.

Sounds great! Which one are you using? (im looking at this http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/ )

ArkhamFantasy · Dec 11, 2018

supervga said:
Sounds great! Which one are you using? (im looking at this http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/ )

I'm doing the 6 week one.

Tuorom · Dec 11, 2018

supervga said:
I'm getting a bit bored by the usual 5/3/1 BBB thing, it takes so fucking long to get done with the main lift (and BBB) that I have no energy for Tabata or other conditioning. Got a new baby at home, might explain my lack of enthusiasm/energy.
Is there a nice "powerbuilding" program someone here likes?
Might also just "cut down" on the weight or reps and put more "fun things" in like curls and stuff. Dumb? Advice?

I like to do https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-damn-workout-plan-for-natural-lifters

4 times a week, push/pull
Choose like 3-4 exercises, do 3 sets each
-2 warm up sets
-1 set using the hard double rest/pause (6 reps, 15 sec rest, 4 reps, 15 sec rest, 2 reps)
-move on to next exercise

So for deads it would be something like:
- 2 sets of 225
- 1 set of 275

If you get that easy then up the weight for next week. And you just hit the essentials ie. push day is squat, horizontal press, overhead press, 4th supplementary (maybe you could do a farmer carry or sled push).

Shouldn't take long. But it can be pretty killer.

Psychotext · Dec 11, 2018

I'd really love to see some of these programs put up against each other. Not really much call for it in the way of research though.

That last one isn't for me though. I can only do 3 days a week of weights max.

pleighboi · Dec 11, 2018

Tuorom said:
Hanging leg raises
Do slow rep sets of pull ups ie. 5 secs up, pause for 5, 5 secs down, pause, etc.
Only do quality reps, stop as soon as you feel form breaking to ensure good habits.

Thanks Itried hanging leg raises today butg they are damn hard

Leg day and refeed day so 600 extra cal. Feels damn good got to eat a whole XL chocolate bar and still hit my macros

Deleted member 11069 · Dec 12, 2018

Thanks for the input guys!
Yeah, the Candito program is a bit too much for me.
Training for more then 3 days a week is tough because I'm old and life in general is pretty demanding.

I just felt a bit like I'm wasting my time trying to get to four plates on the squat while I'm not really feeling fit or energetic doing it.
Reading what Wendler wrote about "training for older guys", I'm going to focus a bit more on cardio and skip the "joker sets" etc.

Tuorom said:
I like to do https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-damn-workout-plan-for-natural-lifters
.

I'll try this tomorrow! Thanks again!
(not the full 6days, but I like the ramp up of handling the exercises)

EssBeeVee · Dec 12, 2018

dont work out for 3 weeks. work out once. feeling some good sores. LOL.

KillerBEA · Dec 12, 2018

Switched from Low Reps to high reps/volume since I am not competing again til summer. The doms are brutal from 6 x 10 Beltless Front Squats and 3 x 10 Box Romanian Deadlifts yesterday.

Psychotext · Dec 12, 2018

I don't really tend to get DOMS when I'm up and running. Only when I'm starting again / changing my routine.

So glad I'm not of the "if you don't get sore it isn't working" camp.

ThatWasAJoke · Dec 15, 2018

I'm 63kg and 5'8 so quite skinny. I haven't done exercise in a while do to exams so I'm pretty unfit. I went to gym for a while when I was 13 and learnt the basics but I haven't been since then

My aim is to improve my physique, put on muscle, get fitter and maybe lose fat but thats not important since I barely have any

I'm very motivated and with tons of free time, my problem is I don't really know anything else about fitness or how do this without fucking it up. So ERA I'm going to the gym tomorrow, how do I do this? Apologies for the excessively general question, google is useless and just filled with ads

ArkhamFantasy · Dec 15, 2018

ThatWasAJoke said:
I'm 63kg and 5'8 so quite skinny. I haven't done exercise in a while do to exams so I'm pretty unfit. I went to gym for a while when I was 13 and learnt the basics but I haven't been since then

My aim is to improve my physique, put on muscle, get fitter and maybe lose fat but thats not important since I barely have any

I'm very motivated and with tons of free time, my problem is I don't really know anything else about fitness or how do this without fucking it up. So ERA I'm going to the gym tomorrow, how do I do this? Apologies for the excessively general question, google is useless and just filled with ads

Pick any program in the OP, since you're a beginner literally anything will work. Don't stress about finding the right program, just pick one and stick to it, don't focus on lifting heavy for the first month, spend that time lifting lighter/medium weight and focusing on technique and performing the lift correctly.

Keep in mind that you're only at the gym 1 hour a day, the other 23 hours are equally important. download an app like myfitnesspal and do what it tells you to do. The app will usually give you a pretty good idea of how many calories you need to maintain your weight. Since you're a beginner i would aim for that number, make sure you're getting at least half a gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. This will lead to muscle gain with little to no fat gained(since you're a beginner you might actually lose fat at the same time).

Try to keep drinking/smoking to a minimum and focus on getting a good nights sleep.

ThatWasAJoke · Dec 17, 2018

ArkhamFantasy said:
Pick any program in the OP, since you're a beginner literally anything will work. Don't stress about finding the right program, just pick one and stick to it, don't focus on lifting heavy for the first month, spend that time lifting lighter/medium weight and focusing on technique and performing the lift correctly.

Keep in mind that you're only at the gym 1 hour a day, the other 23 hours are equally important. download an app like myfitnesspal and do what it tells you to do. The app will usually give you a pretty good idea of how many calories you need to maintain your weight. Since you're a beginner i would aim for that number, make sure you're getting at least half a gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. This will lead to muscle gain with little to no fat gained(since you're a beginner you might actually lose fat at the same time).

Try to keep drinking/smoking to a minimum and focus on getting a good nights sleep.

Cheers. Some guy at the gym today took me under his wing which was super helpful. Now I just need to focus on getting enough protein (which is surprisingly difficult, the calculator in OP says 150g but I'm not sure if I even get half of that)

Tuorom · Dec 17, 2018

ThatWasAJoke said:
Cheers. Some guy at the gym today took me under his wing which was super helpful. Now I just need to focus on getting enough protein (which is surprisingly difficult, the calculator in OP says 150g but I'm not sure if I even get half of that)

You don't need to worry about your protein intake that much. Just have some with every meal and you'll be fine. Once your technique is good and you have some seasoning you can decide if you want to reach for a goal (which may involve more focus on your macronutrient intake ie. getting a certain amount of protein).

Right now you just have to focus on being consistent.
And people at the gym aren't necessarily the best teachers but who knows he may know what he is talking about.

I like to look at articles on T Nation because they are authored by many different professionals with lots of experience.

ThatOneGuy831 · Dec 17, 2018

I finally did it! After about 5 years of working out on and off I finally hit 315 for my 1 rep squat! I've been going consistently with my dad for about a year and I'm loving the results!

VenomousCoffee · Dec 17, 2018

ThatOneGuy831 said:
I finally did it! After about 5 years of working out on and off I finally hit 315 for my 1 rep squat! I've been going consistently with my dad for about a year and I'm loving the results!

Congrats!

Psychotext · Dec 18, 2018

Nice one.

DvdGzz · Dec 18, 2018

Curious, what age are all of you doing deads and squats? I quit that dream a while ago after my second trip to snap city. I'm in better shape than ever now without those lifts than I've ever been, injury free. Heavy leg presses and hip thrusts have been doing the trick.

ArkhamFantasy · Dec 18, 2018

I'm 29

DvdGzz · Dec 18, 2018

That's about the age where I had my first injury. Sciatic nerve pinch. Not trying to fear monger, just hope everyone who is doing them is taking precautions. It is the worst pain I have ever experienced and it took me out of the game for years. I was only squatting with 225. It was a warm-up weight but I was doing it beltless and deep and paid the price. I recently saw an interview with Jeff Nippard and Bret Contreras. He trains hundreds of people at a time and the injury rate has become almost non-existent since he stopped the squats and deadlifts. Something to think about if you're only doing this for aesthetics and don't plan to compete.

Btw, I'm 37 and my avatar is from a couple days ago.

ThatWasAJoke · Dec 18, 2018

DvdGzz said:
That's about the age where I had my first injury. Sciatic nerve pinch. Not trying to fear monger, just hope everyone who is doing them is taking precautions. It is the worst pain I have ever experienced and it took me out of the game for years. I was only squatting with 225. It was a warm-up weight but I was doing it beltless and deep and paid the price. I recently saw an interview with Jeff Nippard and Bret Contreras. He trains hundreds of people at a time and the injury rate has become almost non-existent since he stopped the squats and deadlifts. Something to think about if you're only doing this for aesthetics and don't plan to compete.

Btw, I'm 37 and my avatar is from a couple days ago.

I get knee pain so I'm nervous around squats but I don't really know the alternatives, surely leg press is just as bad for your joints

Psychotext · Dec 18, 2018

I've never injured myself with squat / deadlift. Had a couple of minor tweaks but no proper injuries.

Have lost count of the number of injuries I've got from bench press though.

Edit - Ooops, that's a lie. I did once break a rib deadlifting (the belt pushed up under my lowest rib and snapped it). Not exactly a common injury though!

DvdGzz · Dec 18, 2018

ThatWasAJoke said:
I get knee pain so I'm nervous around squats but I don't really know the alternatives, surely leg press is just as bad for your joints

Leg press isn't as dependant on you keeping your core tight to avoid a spinal injury. I just recommend a belt for sure. We are not always 100% cognizant of keeping the core tight without fail on every rep.

Dinjooh · Dec 18, 2018

27 - Have had squats and deadlifts in my routine for three years or so now. Not doing them incredibly heavy anymore since that was a toll on both my time and mentality more than anything else.

DvdGzz · Dec 18, 2018

Psychotext said:
I've never injured myself with squat / deadlift. Had a couple of minor tweaks but no proper injuries.

Have lost count of the number of injuries I've got from bench press though.

Edit - Ooops, that's a lie. I did once break a rib deadlifting (the belt pushed up under my lowest rib and snapped it). Not exactly a common injury though!

That's another thing I suggest dumbbell presses over the barbell. You can position your hands in a more natural way. I have also injured myself on barbell 3+ times. Not once with dumbbells despite using the 130's.

Tuorom · Dec 18, 2018

25
I work out 4 times a week, push/pull so alternate squats and deads.
I only hurt myself once doing deadlifts because I was being a dumbass.
I have never used a belt and honestly I don't think it is necessary. A belt wouldn't have saved me from my injury.

DvdGzz · Dec 19, 2018

Yep, didn't happen to me until age 29. Good luck with staying injury free from now on.

Oliver James · Dec 19, 2018

Ever since I started hitting the gym my diet consists of eggs in the morning, chicken/fish and veggies at lunch, and peanut butter sandwiches every evening. Now I'm reading my dinner might cause scurvy. Am I screwed?

ArkhamFantasy · Dec 19, 2018

The only time i've ever heard of someone getting scurvy was a child who literally ate nothing but oatmeal everyday for a long time.

Eggs, chicken, vegetables, bread, and peanut butter is a much healthier diet than most americans eat.

DvdGzz · Dec 19, 2018

I did an experiment where I ate almost 100% junk besides a daily apple for 10 months and didn't get sick, I think that diet sounds a lot healthier lol. I documented this in a popular thread on mfp if anyone wants the link. Low protein junk food diet and I got into great shape. CICO.

Psychotext · Dec 19, 2018

lol, fucking scurvy. Give me a break.

You're eating vegetables, so no, no scurvy.

lenovox1 · Dec 19, 2018

ThatWasAJoke said:
I get knee pain so I'm nervous around squats but I don't really know the alternatives, surely leg press is just as bad for your joints

Bret Contreras is the butt guy, I think, so his clients would get a lot of leg and lower back work from lunges, Bulgarian split squats, hip thrusts, glute bridges, walking lunges, etc.

Thac0 · Dec 19, 2018

Psychotext said:
I've never injured myself with squat / deadlift. Had a couple of minor tweaks but no proper injuries.

Have lost count of the number of injuries I've got from bench press though.

Edit - Ooops, that's a lie. I did once break a rib deadlifting (the belt pushed up under my lowest rib and snapped it). Not exactly a common injury though!

Wow, that's a new one! Sounds like your belt and deadlift position managed to be in just the wrong orientation to put pressure on your rib like that. That sucks.

But I agree, I've never been injured due to squats and deadlifts but if I'm not really careful with benching my shoulders are unhappy.

phonicjoy · Dec 19, 2018

Age: 36
Height:1.88m
Weight:93
Goal:na
Current Training Schedule: custom 5 day split
Current Training Equipment Available:full gym equipment
Comments: BMR 2200

I am having some issues with nutrition, as in Im kind of in doubt what to do.
I've been training for a little over a year now and seeing good results. At my most lean I had about 10% bodyfat and Im going for an athletic physique. Up until now I have been cutting slightly, I would say about bmr -200kcal. Im moving towards building more muscle, which Ive been able to do just on increased protein (not too high, id say about 100gr per day). My PT has advised me to increase to 150 gr, but nutrition is not his biggest strenght. I dont want to do a big bulk, and I was wondering what the experiences here are gaining muscle while staying relatively lean. Should I eat my BMR or can I stay at about 1800-2000 kcal? Ive been gaining muscle until now, even during a period where I have been training less. I hope my question isnt too vague.

ArkhamFantasy · Dec 19, 2018

phonicjoy said:
Age: 36

Height:1.88m

Weight:93

Goal:na

Current Training Schedule: custom 5 day split

Current Training Equipment Available:full gym equipment

Comments: BMR 2200

I am having some issues with nutrition, as in Im kind of in doubt what to do.
I've been training for a little over a year now and seeing good results. At my most lean I had about 10% bodyfat and Im going for an athletic physique. Up until now I have been cutting slightly, I would say about bmr -200kcal. Im moving towards building more muscle, which Ive been able to do just on increased protein (not too high, id say about 100gr per day). My PT has advised me to increase to 150 gr, but nutrition is not his biggest strenght. I dont want to do a big bulk, and I was wondering what the experiences here are gaining muscle while staying relatively lean. Should I eat my BMR or can I stay at about 1800-2000 kcal? Ive been gaining muscle until now, even during a period where I have been training less. I hope my question isnt too vague.

You can slowly gain muscle by eating your daily maintenance calories, or even going on a very very small deficit.

I wouldn't get too worried about how much protein you get, i think as long as you get half a gram per pound of bodyweight you're fine.

phonicjoy · Dec 19, 2018

ArkhamFantasy said:
You can slowly gain muscle by eating your daily maintenance calories, or even going on a very very small deficit.

I wouldn't get too worried about how much protein you get, i think as long as you get half a gram per pound of bodyweight you're fine.

Huh, thats surprising and a reassurance because its pretty hard to fit 150gr into my normal diet, and I dont want to overdo it on the shakes. Thanks!

Psychotext · Dec 19, 2018

I think I'm basically at the point where my recovery weights are coming to an end and I can switch to some sort of program (I was doing the old add 5 / 10lbs every session thing, then dropping the reps from 10 to 8,7,6 and finally 5.

I think I'll probably go back to 5/3/1 again as it's not a crazy amount of volume and I find it reassuring to know that I can lift the weights I have programmed.

I really must get a proper coach at some point, especially as I'm getting older. Balancing all the cardio time I do (cycling) with the weights is getting harder and harder.

DvdGzz · Dec 19, 2018

phonicjoy said:
Huh, thats surprising and a reassurance because its pretty hard to fit 150gr into my normal diet, and I dont want to overdo it on the shakes. Thanks!

I wouldn't go that low, I did that when I was on my junk food experiment and now that I am getting an average of 50 more per day, I have retained/gained a lot more muscle during this recomp/cut. I am ~85 kilos and am averaging ~140 grams per day. 1.65 grams per kilo is recommended by some experts like Jeff Nippard. Of course, it's really easy for me to hit that since I average 3.5k calories a day. Just 1 protein bar per day on top of my pizza and cookies lol.

Tuorom · Dec 19, 2018

phonicjoy said:
Age: 36

Height:1.88m

Weight:93

Goal:na

Current Training Schedule: custom 5 day split

Current Training Equipment Available:full gym equipment

Comments: BMR 2200

I am having some issues with nutrition, as in Im kind of in doubt what to do.
I've been training for a little over a year now and seeing good results. At my most lean I had about 10% bodyfat and Im going for an athletic physique. Up until now I have been cutting slightly, I would say about bmr -200kcal. Im moving towards building more muscle, which Ive been able to do just on increased protein (not too high, id say about 100gr per day). My PT has advised me to increase to 150 gr, but nutrition is not his biggest strenght. I dont want to do a big bulk, and I was wondering what the experiences here are gaining muscle while staying relatively lean. Should I eat my BMR or can I stay at about 1800-2000 kcal? Ive been gaining muscle until now, even during a period where I have been training less. I hope my question isnt too vague.

If you want an athletic physique have you tried working out like an athlete? Athletes will work many different facets, ie. focus on strength, then hypertrophy, then power, etc. Maybe you work on squat strength for a month, then lower the weight and try to increase volume for a month, then do sprints or HIIT.
Protein is pretty important for muscle growth since it is a prime building block. Since you don't have very much body fat trying to build muscle while on a caloric deficit may be slow or difficult. Where is the body getting the energy needed to build the muscle?
To build muscle you need:
-material
-energy
-a stresser, or a reason to build it

Kinda related article https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/the-single-biggest-diet-mistake

There are lots of articles you can read that may answer your question.

VenomousCoffee · Dec 19, 2018

phonicjoy said:
Age: 36

Height:1.88m

Weight:93

Goal:na

Current Training Schedule: custom 5 day split

Current Training Equipment Available:full gym equipment

Comments: BMR 2200

I am having some issues with nutrition, as in Im kind of in doubt what to do.
I've been training for a little over a year now and seeing good results. At my most lean I had about 10% bodyfat and Im going for an athletic physique. Up until now I have been cutting slightly, I would say about bmr -200kcal. Im moving towards building more muscle, which Ive been able to do just on increased protein (not too high, id say about 100gr per day). My PT has advised me to increase to 150 gr, but nutrition is not his biggest strenght. I dont want to do a big bulk, and I was wondering what the experiences here are gaining muscle while staying relatively lean. Should I eat my BMR or can I stay at about 1800-2000 kcal? Ive been gaining muscle until now, even during a period where I have been training less. I hope my question isnt too vague.

I'm going to pimp the program I use. It's called Tactical Barbell and there are books on Amazon. Volumes 1 and 2 are on Kindle and together they form a max strength and conditioning program (geared for LEO and military selection programs). He also just put out a new book called Mass Protocol (no Kindle), which is a hypertrophy-focused version of the same, with way less conditioning. (Way less conditioning here is, say, 10 30 yard sprints vs the original program's 6 600 yard max effort runs).

And, eat what you want. But to me your protein and calorie intake both sound very low. I eat about 3500 calories a day and I'm consistently dropping fat.

DvdGzz · Dec 19, 2018

A novice and someone coming back to lifting after having attained size in the past are prime candidates for building muscle and losing fat at the same time. Otherwise, it would be a very minimal gain or possibly no gain at all, especially if you don't have a handle of your maintenance and are instead in a large deficit. Either way, a good amount of protein a small surplus, deficit or maintenance calories, and resistance training are highly recommended.

phonicjoy · Dec 19, 2018

Tuorom said:
If you want an athletic physique have you tried working out like an athlete? Athletes will work many different facets, ie. focus on strength, then hypertrophy, then power, etc. Maybe you work on squat strength for a month, then lower the weight and try to increase volume for a month, then do sprints or HIIT.
Protein is pretty important for muscle growth since it is a prime building block. Since you don't have very much body fat trying to build muscle while on a caloric deficit may be slow or difficult. Where is the body getting the energy needed to build the muscle?
To build muscle you need:
-material
-energy
-a stresser, or a reason to build it

Kinda related article https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/the-single-biggest-diet-mistake

There are lots of articles you can read that may answer your question.

Thanks! Im a bit afraid of eating too much because I have a hard time losing it. I used to be obese, so its a mindset thing. Im at around 13% bf now. Thanks for the pointers.

Buran · Dec 20, 2018

Year is almost over and overall I had a very good (consistent) last 3 months. I started January with 73 Kg (160 Lb) bodyweight aiming to reach 77 (169) and I'm now around 76 (167). This month I'm peaking at some exercises: 4 x 142 Kg (313 Lb) deadlift, 4 x 100 Kg (220 Lb) back squat, 4 x 70 Kg (154 Lb) bench press, 1 x 80 Kg (176 Lb) squat clean... Got also 3.000 m row in 11'50" and will test max push ups (probably around 50). I keep lifting 3-4 days a week and going to CF another 3-4 days, but now my schedule is more busy due since November the Saturday and Sunday mornings are filled with a archery course.

My fitness related goals for 2019 would be to reach 79-80 Kg (174-176 Lb) of bodyweight, keep pushing my main lifts, to get my first muscle up and being able to open #70 compound bows in good control.

phonicjoy · Dec 20, 2018

VenomousCoffee said:
I'm going to pimp the program I use. It's called Tactical Barbell and there are books on Amazon. Volumes 1 and 2 are on Kindle and together they form a max strength and conditioning program (geared for LEO and military selection programs). He also just put out a new book called Mass Protocol (no Kindle), which is a hypertrophy-focused version of the same, with way less conditioning. (Way less conditioning here is, say, 10 30 yard sprints vs the original program's 6 600 yard max effort runs).

And, eat what you want. But to me your protein and calorie intake both sound very low. I eat about 3500 calories a day and I'm consistently dropping fat.

Bought the book, seems exactly what I want.

Jokab · Dec 20, 2018

If I almost solely wanted to focus on hypertrophy, which program would you recommend? I'm Still a novice but I've come to the conclusion that I want to grow muscle over growing strength if I had to choose. I get that size can't come without strength but still, which program would be good? Does it make sense to focus on hypertrophy as a novice?

Fitness |OT| A New Era Begins

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