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First Look at Jared Leto's Joker in Zack Snyder's Justice League
- Thread starter Spectromixer
- Start date
- News
Fans just drank the koolaid of whatever WB was trying to sell at the time, obviously people wanted to believe what was being sold. But even then there were rumours that Whedon was reshaping the entire movie before release. Like I said, the footage is 50% Whedon at most. But 100% of the movie was reshaped which is obvious when you see the final film. You don't replace an entire musical score when you are trying to adhere to the original director's vision. John Shnepp even said it (RIP):
(couldnt find the original)
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They totally played up Leto's "pranks" with all the cast talking about all the pranks he played. It's not like it was all concocted by the media for clicks, it basically seemed to be a part of the promo tour for the movie.
I'm more looking forward to the videos comparing the new version to the theatrical than I am actually watching the new version.
i dont think dumber is correct honestly
imagine if wb took man of steel or bvs and got another director to add scenes with quips and inspiring messaging
i would say those movies would end up being way dumber just for the fact they're shoehorning things in that never made sense in the stories zack made
When all the smoke clears this is going to end up as a case study on why studios shouldn't listen to loud minority fan wankery...
Gonna lost all that money. Without question. I'm still amazed there were people out there who saw ... something?.. in this flick to be redeemed. To fight for at all for any reason. After MoS-BVS-SS-JL all basically in a row being ... at best lackluster in the theaters. I know they want that sweet sweet Marvel gravy train but whats it gonna take to roll everything back to square 1 and start right? Like... just to Kingdom Come or something and ignore all this other horse shit.
Gonna lost all that money. Without question. I'm still amazed there were people out there who saw ... something?.. in this flick to be redeemed. To fight for at all for any reason. After MoS-BVS-SS-JL all basically in a row being ... at best lackluster in the theaters. I know they want that sweet sweet Marvel gravy train but whats it gonna take to roll everything back to square 1 and start right? Like... just to Kingdom Come or something and ignore all this other horse shit.
Whatever Snyder does wrong is fake news it's always someone else to blame and that sounds awfully familiar to another cult.
I am thankful to HBO to finally expose the false god.
What excuses are gonna be made for the Snyder cut?
It's a shame really, how so many people are latching onto the Snyder DCU when there are dozens of better writers and directors who can do it better. DC material deserves better than this.
I think its unfair to reduce Whedon's input to just "quips and inspiring messaging". He was tasked with putting lipstick on a pig and the fact that he turned Snyder's bullshit into a mostly coherent movie is impressive. His rehabilitation of Superman was the best part of that movie and that something Snyder could never have done.
ok yeah, if the best part of your movie is something another director did its not looking great for your cut of it
also i will say snyder seems to have learnt no lessons from what people don't like about his movies
already talking about a sequel he wanted to make where the joker kills robin
i dont care how well known your characters are, rushing through content just so you can get to the cool parts has to be some of the worst world building
Robin was already dead in BvS - there's a scene with Robin's costume visible, all damaged and with Joker's "ha ha" writings all over it. Also, the Wayne's manor is already burnt down in that movie. That's one of the reasons why Batman is so jaded.
I'm trying (and failing miserably) to imagine the Joker, of all characters, quietly and patiently lying down motionless for hours on end in a tattoo parlor. :D
ah i see it was talking about flashbacks
kinda makes my point though in how snyder just continuously rushes through story beats to get to cool imagery
How much did you love flash face planting into wonder woman's breasts? Whedon brought what the movie really needed. /s
No one deserves to be Jared Leto, not even as a form of punishment.
Lame gag, but not all of them land. The lasso of truth one was pretty good.
For every dumb moment like that and "do you bleed?", there's another legitimately great moment like Superman showing off and calling Flash a slowpoke or Batman giving a pretty damn inspiring speech about focusing on one thing when you're overwhelmed by everything happening at that moment.
And then there's the shitty Russian family and superman's cgi face to destroy any goodwill.
Also doesnt help Whedon ended up cutting out all the minorities from the film.
That's a, uh, choice. Not sure any version of the Joker would be my pick for that sort of plot device, but I guess if you're just blindly desperate to shoehorn the character in by any means necessary...
My only guess is that they were trying to go with a Frank Miller Joker look... Which isn't the best looking Joker to start off with:
He removed Iris ( black woman ), removed Atom ( Asian man ), removed Cyborg's family outside of his dad, discarded various Amazonian warriors action sequences, didnt shoot the planned Martian Manhunter ( played by a black actor ) scene that was story boarded
Meanwhile all the new characters he added were white.
Can't tell if Jared Leto is posing in those photos or if that's just the face he naturally makes when he's soliciting underage fans for nudes.
To be fair, all of those were necessary cuts based on what Whedon was tasked to do with the film. He needed to cut as many non-essential scenes as possible to get under the mandated 2-hour runtime, and cut any cameos that teased future roles/films so they would have as clean of a slate to work from as possible.
Look at how many good Jokers there has been over the years from Cesar Romero to Alan Tudyk and now look at what Zac Snyder has unleashed upon the world. I assume this guy has just read only the Watchman and the Dark Knight Returns because "comics are for little kids and I am not a little kid" just look at what other people have created and try to be somewhere in the ballpark. That just looks boring
Haven't really posted or discussed the Snyder Cut myself, I can take it or leave it honestly and do think it will be bad but curious to see what they actually did and changed. Doubt it will be like the Donner Cut of Superman 2.
One thing that has been bothering me though is overreaction towards the Snyder films in regard of Superhero genre as whole, that superheroes should ONLY be silly and light and wanting superhero movies wanting to saying or tell deeper stories or even darker (since the two are exclusive to each other) = wanting angsty/Snyder like crap which... Is just silly.
It's silly to me because it's the exact opposite of what people were asking for over a decade ago when movies like X2, The Dark Knight, Iron Man and Spider-Man 2 were considered the the go to best superhero movies while people hated movies like Batman and Robin, Steel, Rise of the Silver Surfer, Green Lantern etc.
But it's also silly because it feels so reductive and dismissive of the genre as a whole instead pointing out the real issue. If you read the comics, the medium is VERY DIVERSE even excluding the non-superhero works, Superhero stories can in all shapes and forms, from small character pieces, to silly fun, to serious discussion, to epic battles etc.
Superman for example has went the full spectrum to silly fun stories like that time he fired rainbows from his fingers that made a miniature version of himself and then got jealous when the mini version was beloved... To more thought provoking and deeper stories like What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Exile, For All Seasons, Kingdom Come, Must there be a Superman?, Superman: Secret Identity. All-Star Superman, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way, For the Man Who Has Everything etc. The same goes for the Marvel side of things to and beyond the Big 2.
The simple fact is to me, Snyder, WB and the other creatives involved, made bad moves, Man of Steel is okay so mediocre while BvS is just bad and needlessly bleak, but that doesn't mean the very idea of superhero movies being deeper, thought provoking or even darker is bad, the execution was bad.
I get it people, people don't like the Snyder movies and the release of the Snyder Cut has reopened that (not helped by the harassment Snyder's more extreme fans pulled), but let's not overreact as well by dismissing the very idea that a genre can be more then just one thing because of bad examples.
Edit: Thinking about it now, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way acts as a pretty good counterpoint to the Snyder movies.
One thing that has been bothering me though is overreaction towards the Snyder films in regard of Superhero genre as whole, that superheroes should ONLY be silly and light and wanting superhero movies wanting to saying or tell deeper stories or even darker (since the two are exclusive to each other) = wanting angsty/Snyder like crap which... Is just silly.
It's silly to me because it's the exact opposite of what people were asking for over a decade ago when movies like X2, The Dark Knight, Iron Man and Spider-Man 2 were considered the the go to best superhero movies while people hated movies like Batman and Robin, Steel, Rise of the Silver Surfer, Green Lantern etc.
But it's also silly because it feels so reductive and dismissive of the genre as a whole instead pointing out the real issue. If you read the comics, the medium is VERY DIVERSE even excluding the non-superhero works, Superhero stories can in all shapes and forms, from small character pieces, to silly fun, to serious discussion, to epic battles etc.
Superman for example has went the full spectrum to silly fun stories like that time he fired rainbows from his fingers that made a miniature version of himself and then got jealous when the mini version was beloved... To more thought provoking and deeper stories like What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Exile, For All Seasons, Kingdom Come, Must there be a Superman?, Superman: Secret Identity. All-Star Superman, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way, For the Man Who Has Everything etc. The same goes for the Marvel side of things to and beyond the Big 2.
The simple fact is to me, Snyder, WB and the other creatives involved, made bad moves, Man of Steel is okay so mediocre while BvS is just bad and needlessly bleak, but that doesn't mean the very idea of superhero movies being deeper, thought provoking or even darker is bad, the execution was bad.
I get it people, people don't like the Snyder movies and the release of the Snyder Cut has reopened that (not helped by the harassment Snyder's more extreme fans pulled), but let's not overreact as well by dismissing the very idea that a genre can be more then just one thing because of bad examples.
Edit: Thinking about it now, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way acts as a pretty good counterpoint to the Snyder movies.
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Nah, he also cut all of Cyborgs plot and relevance. It's why there like nothing Cyborg in the main cut.
I mean - I don't think you classify the only black member of the league as a necessary cut so - I don't know what there is to defend.
But he didnt just trim. He replaced as well.
In the case of Flash and Cyborg, it irreparably destroyed their back story.
Like adding a boob joke but removing Iris is okay.
The snyder cut showing all those actors that got removed really opened my eyes. Like the trend was obvious.
The issue isn't that it's a darker take, it's that Snyder is a hack and has no idea what a "darker" take on comics is. You can even read in this excerpts about this version of the film that he has absolutely no idea about the actual characters and just wants to do "cool shit". You can do a darker take on Batman and Superman without it being, well whatever the fuck BvS was.
If you're tasked with cutting a Justice League movie down to two hours, and the choice is between a longer but still compromised Cyborg origin story or more scenes of Batman, I think the choice is somewhat out of your hands.
I don't think it's fair to dismiss the idea that Whedon simply shifted the reduced time towards the most recognized 'Super Friends' . Even then, apparently, Cyborg just has one minute less screen time than the Flash, and 4 minutes more than Aquaman, in the Whedon cut.