IIRC the issue is that SF4 style combos from lights got removed, taking away a lot of combo paths.
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First Ever Footage of Riot Games' Fighting Game 'Project L'
- Thread starter vestan
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how did this turn into a dunking on max thread? lol
anyways, I'm gonna replay Rising Thunder to get a better feel since I'm sure they'll be using the same system and truth be told I didnt play much when it came out.
anyways, I'm gonna replay Rising Thunder to get a better feel since I'm sure they'll be using the same system and truth be told I didnt play much when it came out.
Don't forget to also rewatch the Chell/fireball salt video to mentally prepare yourself to the complaints people will have about this.
oh god you reminded me... I need to see that now...
"THE F- FUCKING GC!"
They're dunking on him for having different opinions.
Which is bad.
Oh my god I've just watched 3 minutes and I can't stop laughing. This is amazing. Getting bodied by sweep> fireball > uppercut and going into a 20 minute rant
"He doesn't even know any combos!"
Edit: oh my god it gets worse
Edit 2: the way he talks legit makes me unconfortable. "Degenerates", "plebs" and ableist language. He reminds me of TempleOS guy but more salty
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I'm not trying to dunk on Max because his different opinion, I have issues with how, as a very large voice in the FGC, he constantly goes on about mobility and speed during game play. This skews a large audience to start thinking anything other than "hype" is boring.
Like, it's transparent as fuck. When he was saying in the video, "I want there to be mobility with a skill barrier" he was saying "I want to teleport behind YOUR head but I don't want you to do it to me". How can you main Strider in MvCi and then go on and say "DBZ went too far". Dude, you're just mad that they made your play style accessible with a button.
He is constantly playing early games by invite from the devs, so going in on his opinion isn't really the same as going in on the average person's. It's only common sense that a dev team try to appease someone with a million subs who could drown your game before it ever left play testing.
"The most overpowered fireball in the history of fighting games" -> literally cannot use it again after whiffing for one second and a half and the game shows you the timer on screen.
"It can be reset before the cooldown is over" -> the cooldown itself is reset if the fireball hits/gets blocked, which he should know if he is that great
You mean specifically the new GG that he obviously can't play or GG in general because uuuh I have bad news for you
He doesn't do that?
I just rewatched this, how did he jump to eugenics so fast. He went from this character is unbalanced, fuck this dude, fuck he fgc, eugenics
he tries to jump on wake up 4 times in a row and gets salty cause he gets meaty swept. LMAO!
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He has the backbone that other fighting game players lack. Not enough to keep his twitch channel alive after this though
I'm just skimming the video as I'm not in the mood to rewatch the entire 15 minutes so correct me if I'm wrong. What he said, word for word, is this:
"I'm a big fan of fighting games that take you and allow you to have a lot of creativity, and a lot of setups, and a lot of movement and a lot of mobility. I think that's what makes a game like King of Fighters [...] very interesting. Because games like KOF are very much movement and footsie based. Absolutely. BUT. They give you a lot of mobility. They give you the ability to roll, to super jump, to back roll, to run, to shorthop. To do all this shit."
It really doesn't seem to me he just wants the ability to teleport without the other person doing it to him. It just seems he wants more options, because more options lead to more strategies, more creativity and makes a game fun to play.
On the other hand, DBZ has a ton of gapclosers but not a lot of actual mobility and freedom. You can run, superjump, airdash horizontally, superdash and teleport. Compare that to something like Marvel where you can wavedash, triangle jump, superjump, activate and deactivate flight on command and have way, way more freedom on your combo paths and setups.
Or even KOF where all of that whole arsenal of mobility options can be used both to extend combos and to play a more refined neutral. It just seems like a purposefully uncharitable reading of statements.
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My thing is with this specifically what I'm highlighting is, So what?
MVC:I isn't a better game than DBFZ because you can do more stuff.
And now I remember why, homie tells people to kill themselves like whoah
Well, more mobility and options lead to more creativity on combos and setups and might make a fighting game more fun to play and learn
Edit to answer your edit:
I wasn't even thinking about MVCi with that statement, more Marvel 3. And while "better game" is be true, I'd put MvCi's gameplay (and netcode!) over FighterZ any day of the week, precisely because of it's freeform nature.
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If this was true fighting games would have rollback netcode years ago.
EDIT: Japanese, fighting games.
Then at this point, we are failing to play and understand games on their own terms. As I said, more stuff doesn't correlate to more fun and enjoyment. Open World action games give you a lot of stuff and stuff to do but they aren't inherently superior non-open world action games.
He'll upload it on youtube soon I'm sure, but just last night he was talking about Dragon Ball FighterZ. His issue there with things like Super Dash is down to the terrible online/netcode. He basically said he'd have no real problem playing it offline - even though he dislikes what it does to the neutral game - because at least you can react to it instead of having to fight with fluctuating frame delay thanks to the netcode.
Any game that Max isn't specifically playing right now, he hates and would never ever play again.
NEVER.
Yes, but DMC5 is more fun to play than DmC even if they're in the same genre (linear action game) because you can be way more creative on your gameplay.
That's all it boils down to. Expressing yourself through gameplay is one of the defining features of popular fighting games. (Marvel, SF4, Melee, SF2, Xrd, BB, etc etc etc) and having a lot of options facilitate that
I had more fun with DmC than DMC5.
My point is more mechanics doesn't mean more fun and fewer mechanics doesn't mean a lack of creativity and player expression. It's funny you slide SF2 in your examples as that game isn't at all packed to the brim with gameplay mechanics and yet people have played it for years with a metagame that always manages to change and be redefined.
He's been talking about this kind of thing a lot lately and now I understand why. People just expect him to play every single FG under the sun ALL THE TIME.
Let's agree to disagree then. I really dislike the route that SFV and DBFZ took with their mechanics and dropped off both games really quickly because of it. Specifically because I thought they streamlined it too much
And ST is full of hidden mechanics, especially for it's time. Things like chain cancelling, kara-cancelling, reversals, three different kinds of knockdowns, two kinds of grabs and two different versions of the same characters are all in there. It's simpler than something like SNK's offering at the time but it's still plenty complex and allow for a lot of player expression
Dude is probably the youtuber/streamer with the most amount of games covered in a positive manner trying to showcase the variety of genre to less hardcore crowd and it's still not enough. Either him or Woolie, I think.
I think that's where we have a slight misunderstanding. I'm not at all objecting to the critiques of SFV and DBFZ.
Max isn't playing this game -> Max hates this game -> This game sucks
I mean it's unfortunate that Max isn't interested in GBVS but it's not going to deter me from playing it. Plus for Anime games I go to Koefficient anyway.
Oh. Yeah, we do haha. Do you have an example where more options and freeform gameplay ruined a game you previously enjoyed? Because I'm struggling to think why having fewer options would lead to a better game/why having more options would lead to a worse one
On a purely gameplay level, obviously. Not taking stuff like graphics/single player content/netcode/etc into account
If you have the time to watch this video it puts my argument into perspective
What I don't get about Max, and this isn't a negative, is that he talk a lot about freeform creativity and mobility yet his favorite game is third strike... like third strike is a fantastic game but the mobility is nothing to write home about, it got the usual dash, one character has a super jump and a double jump. Third Strike is also a pretty rigid game in terms of creativity with some exceptions like aegis combos or ex tengu stones, especially for a Ken main like him.
It's clearly not his sole determining factor in him liking a game or not. I mean, he also really likes SamSho.
Also, as far was 3S goes, it is one of the faster Street Fighter's. And there's a tremendous difference in your options/combo paths compared to, say, SFV.
It's just that it's a bit weird that he clearly put very much importance into those aspects yet his favorite game is almost the antithesis of that. Also I wouldn't consider third strike of the faster street fighters.. imo sf2turbo, and all the alphas are faster
His other favorite game of all time is MvC2
Edit: I don't know what Max's other favorite fighting game actually is
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3S is absolutly my favorite FG of all time and an incredible footsie heavy grounded FG. Although, with the addition of parry, it opened up aspects like jumping...if you knew what to parry and when. While it might not seem like it, parrying allowed the player more access to screen space and movement...more than any other SF. The SF3 series was also one of the first to allow the player to dash. I remember constantly practicing my buffer backdash/forward dash timing because you could rapid fire each hop that Ken/anyone took. Parry in general opens up a variety of mind games, including the 'empty jump' as well as several parry bait options. Approaching a matchup could be vastly different from one player to another because of this.
SF3 actually had much more mobility options than SF2 and the Alpha series. It's a fast, in your face, moment to moment fighting game.....................that breaks down completely at high level, lol.
We don't need more combos. Games don't need to be unga bunga to be fun. We need to have mechanics and character traits that allow for at least a little bit of human player expression...and that doesn't have to execution heavy at all. Power Rangers is a great example of that.
There's a lot of misinformation in this thread in direct regards to what I like and what I feel. I wouldn't even put MVC2 in top 5.
