Fire Emblem - Your Favorite Avatar (Awakening/Fates/3Houses)

[Enduin]

Mark=Robin>Kris>Corrin>Byleth.

Byleth blows. Shitty design, especially Byletha. Such a terrible looking character and the total lack of customization options was not justified at all. And such a massive waste of space that undermined a competent game and real protagonists in their students. Being silent was their only saving grace, though in reality that probably made things even worse as they were just this empty void of suck, but they still played an unreasonably important and central role in everything overshadowing the real characters which was the worst part. Byleth being the chosen one just undermines the actual compelling and interesting leads in the game stealing time and focus from them for their shitty specialness.

Corrin is the worst person in history but at least they have a decent design and customization options, sans bare feet, unlike Byleth. And despite how shitty Corrin is removing Corrin wouldn't make the writing or story in Fates much better. Everything in and about that game was just dumb and hack-y to the extreme. The story centers completely on them and the rest of the writing and story would remain plenty stupid/poor without their inclusion. Salvaging that story requires so much more than just removing or reworking Corrin. Whereas Byleth kind of drags down what would otherwise be one the of the best entries in the series due to their suckery and removing/reworking them would dramatically improve that game without much additional work.

I'd prefer someone like Robin again with just no plot importance. Just a player Avatar with interactions with the rest of the characters, but all of the story and plot hinges on the Lords and not us. Basically a mix of Robin and Mark. If they're going to maintain a silent Avatar again they really need to go all out with the dialogue options cause 3H's were a joke. I''d rather have another Robin type with a fixed personality than another Byleth-esq Real DollTM.

 

[Kodaman]

female byleth pants... yikes

 

[Drax]

Byleth's flaws in a more serious story really shows the flaws of an avatar system. Corrin was awful but his story was awful.

 

[Drax]

Long-time fans didn't exactly receive Awakening warmly. The meme of "Fire Emblem fans hate Fire Emblem" exists for a reason.

And if Awakening was so good that it's success wasn't due to luck, then what does Awakening do better than every other Fire Emblem and set itself apart from the other games?

Genealogy and Path of Radiance both have a captivating story, Three Houses and Sacred Stones, to a lesser extent, have brilliant characters, and even Conquest (as much as I hate it) is considered by many to have some of the best gameplay in the series.

So it isn't the writing, the characters, or the gameplay - the three most important aspects of Fire Emblem. So what is it, exactly?

Ultimately, Awakening found itself in the same situation as Blazing Sword (being the first Fire Emblem for many people), but even Blazing Sword had better characters and gameplay than Awakening did.

Let me put to you in this way: if Awakening was made by an indie developer, released on an aging console, and received no marketing whatsoever, would it have found the success that it ultimately did?

Click to shrink...

To be fair, pretty much every generation of fire emblem fans hates changes in newer games

You had the fire emblem four and five divide, you had the pre kaga and post kaga divide (the fandom was smaller than, more hardcore and really nasty if you admitted you liked Roy back then), then furries in the GameCube games, shadow dragon being a train wreck etc etc etc etc, awakening with waifu trash

I will def say that feth did get some old fans back into the series, but I've also seen older fans prefer Nmoe and Conquest over this as well.

I will also say that I did find Awakening to be a successful call back to earlier games in the series(which was the intent of the game), and the first game in a while with presentation that wasnt complete trash. The 3ds engine by the end with Echoes was really the high water mark in the series in looks and music imho.

 

[Bovine]

Robin easily is my favorite avatar AINEC. Loved their relationship with Chrom. I like Corrin mainly from Smash and Heroes but in Fates they were pretty stupid, and I detested the worship of them when they honestly didn't deserve it.

Byleth is such a terrible non-character who's only popular for their relationships/shipping with other, far more superior characters. By themselves they are a badly designed atrociously dressed block of wood, and are probably my least favorite character in the game.

 

[NeonZ]

Long-time fans didn't exactly receive Awakening warmly. The meme of "Fire Emblem fans hate Fire Emblem" exists for a reason.

Click to shrink...

It was kind of divisive among long time fans, it wasn't just hated. When the game was new tons of people in message boards and such looked forward to the spotpass team updates for example, which wouldn't make sense if they were only new fans. It was only months later that the ways the game could be broken became really clear and there was deliberate scorn for its balance and story from part of the fanbase.

And if Awakening was so good that it's success wasn't due to luck, then what does Awakening do better than every other Fire Emblem and set itself apart from the other games?

Click to shrink...

Aside from the 3d models themselves, Awakening had great presentation. From menus to overall art direction (like backgrounds and such - it was the first game where the maps felt like they had uniquely designed visual elements) it was clearly a big leap on what the series had before (well, aside from class design). It also introduced casual mode outside of Japan and brought a general design change to the series that gave it much more freedom, a freedom that proved to be really appealing. Even though in this game you could just choose between traveling to the next story chapter, paralogues or random map encounters, that proved to be an appealing point over the previous straightforward progression which the series has just expanded more and more afterwards with the Castle in Fates and all the Monastery activities in Three Houses.

Also, although certain elements like the story becoming oddly simplified after the first third of the game and the map design completely falling apart towards the end irritated some older fans, the game launched with tons of attempt at appealing to fans from all FE games, with references and elements from all previous games in the series. It took a for a visible backlash to be noticeable from part of the fanbase.

There's also the gameplay innovations, - class changing with equippable skills and level resets, with stat inflation going beyond even the final chapter in optional battles (with the DLC adding even more of those). The 2nd generation also played into this. That kind of game structure was popular in games like Disgaea for example and it was the first time FE had something like it. It's part of why I think Fates had less success because in spite of having a refined version of Awakening's systems it completely removed this aspect - so a feature like the 2nd generation wasn't only completely separate from the main plot, it had little point gameplay-wise too.

Let me put to you in this way: if Awakening was made by an indie developer, released on an aging console, and received no marketing whatsoever, would it have found the success that it ultimately did?

Click to shrink...

A lot of Awakening's initial success came from established fans due to its strong use of past FE elements. It's just that it continued selling for a long time to a new audience due to the initial positive impressions (and then positive impressions of the new audience itself even after the old fanbase became split on it) due to its new features, so that wouldn't really be the same scenario since it wouldn't be starting from the same base. Awakening wasn't a case of a game blowing up at launch due to marketing and then selling little afterwards. It sold a lot due to legs. Awakening's first month sales in NA, counting eshop downloads, only hit 180k.

 

[Monstress]

Robin, I hate F!Byleth's outfit, and Corrin is just dumb.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

Robin has text lines which already make them better because they're an active player in the plot but it also has a much more integrated role in the story. Byleth is alright enough I guess, but their lack of dialogue despite having VA while trying to put emphasis on a character who is a non entity makes them weaker to me.

 

[Hailinel]

female byleth pants... yikes

Click to shrink...

Those aren't pants.

 

[Disclaimer]

Voted for Byleth in the poll, but the poll leaves out options. In reality I'd rate them as such:

Kris > Mark > Byleth > Robin >>> Corrin

Kris and Mark fill the function of self-insert best. That is to say, neither is too established a character, and they both primarily serve as proxies for characters to appraise the player's own performance, while existing in-story as tertiary plot actors—not driving ones.

To put it differently, neither is God/Dark God Host/Child of God. Kris and Mark are just normal laypeople who serve supporting roles to their game's given Lord as Royal Guard and Tactician respectively, and though Kris does take somewhat from others' FE3 roles, neither becomes the absolute focus of the narrative, as the others' Super Special Status eventually necessitates.

Kris in particular also served as the best example of character customization amongst the playable avatars, IMO, by virtue of the player being able to choose not just their face/hair/hair color/stats, but also their outfit/accessories, backstory (kind of important for roleplaying a self-insert), and—crucially—their class (from the get-go, not by reclassing).

Byleth had some nice dialogue choices which enhances their flavor, and the game managed to make their silence work well in most cases. While I enjoyed Byleth's connection to Sothis—which was really wasted with her later absence—and think the revelations of their backstory are interesting as world-building, their ~Specialness~ does still detract from the three lords, who were already given short shrift in terms of route length / presence relative to their forebears (despite all being way more compelling than any previous FE lords).

Robin, like Byleth, serves as their game's deuteragonist, but because of their Specialness, ends up more narratively integral in the end, limiting Chrom's role to supportive figurehead.

Corrin... it's already been elaborated on by others, but not only are they a poorly-written character whom most dote on excessively, but their nature as a self-insert projection of the player greatly exacerbates the frustration of their non-stop stupidity and naivete.

In the future, presuming we keep having avatars, I hope that they're more in the vein of supporting characters—the Royal Guards—rather than Super Special Driving Forces. The "Royal Guard" role is perfect to me because such a character can be omni-present while also largely passive, while the "Tactician" kind of inherently assumes the Lord won't be demonstrating cunning and tactical prowess. (Admittedly, Three Houses actually struck a half-decent balance with this with Edelgard and Claude, since their machinations ensure their guile is on display, even if Byleth is the play-by-play battle tactician.)

 

[Pirate Bae]

Byleth. They feel like an actual character with a personality even if they're silent. Robin is okay but they're not as fleshed out in my opinion.

Corrin is just...no.

 

[Dyle]

They're all bad but Robin is the least bad.

 

[Jadow]

Pretty interesting to see how people interpret Byleth and their involment in the game, theres quite a bit of you that find personality traits despite them being mostly a silent.

To me it feels like Byleth is the perfect avatar for 3H, I dont think Robin or Corrin would work with the cast, its difficult to explain but it just feels to me that way.

 

[Shining Star]

Byleth for sure (female.) I just think she is the coolest.

 

[Rotobit]

Haven't really played Fates yet but my ranking would probably be

Female Robin > Male Byleth > Male Robin > Female Corrin > The Rest

I think female Byleth's outfit is just kinda silly

 

[Oni]

Robin. I just wanna get back to being able to create a character again.

 

[Dysun]

Corrin seemed like a nothing character to me, I don't really get the fuss.

 

[HylianSeven]

Imagine the dumbest protagonist you can think of that is an important part of driving the plot of their respective story.

Now imagine a character was somehow written to be 10x dumber.

That is Corrin.

Everything single decision Corrin makes, no matter the route, actively insults the intelligence of the player.

Not trying to get into spoilers but the "plan" that Corrin comes up with in Conquest was so fucking stupid I had to put the game down. I really shouldn't have come back to it, because it only got worse from there.

Fire Emblem has never been known for its stories outside of maybe the Radiant games, but each entry generally has a fun cast so you want to take an adventure with these characters. Fates is a slog for this very reason.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much, the gameplay is Conquest's saving grace, as it's so good.

But yeah when I was playing Conquest I couldn't help but laugh, especially through the early parts.

Your father, King Ganondorf, tries to have you executed multiple times, and then asks you to take the black glowing evil sword that's totally not evil to somewhere in the enemy country, and promises that everything will totes be fine, no worries. You'll never guess what happens.

 

[McNum]

Pretty much, the gameplay is Conquest's saving grace, as it's so good.

But yeah when I was playing Conquest I couldn't help but laugh, especially through the early parts.

Your father, King Ganondorf, tries to have you executed multiple times, and then asks you to take the black glowing evil sword that's totally not evil to somewhere in the enemy country, and promises that everything will totes be fine, no worries. You'll never guess what happens.

Click to shrink...

Ooh, do you invade Hoshido so you can avoid having to invade Hoshido? Or do you use a single use crystal ball that reveals that King Ganondorf is actually evil when you're alone instead of, you know, show it to everyone? Or does everyone conveniently commit suicide in front fo you so you can be on Team Evil and not be evil? (Meanwhile, Birthright Corrin happily kills their enemies and no one bats an eye at it.)

Azura managing to fool literally everyone by putting on a dark blue version of her outfit and a veil is just hilarious, though. Who could that mysterious blue haired songstress be? Azura, do you have any idea?

 

[WrenchNinja]

They all suck. Robin has some characterization but is extremely boring. Corrin is just an actively bad character who makes monumentally stupid decisions. Byleth is nothing. If had to choose, probably Robin I guess.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

I'm never going to understand the praise Awakening gets for anything outside of gameplay.

It was the most painfully generic, lazily written, shallow thing I've experienced in a good while. And Robin is the definition of forgettable, from the design to the character.

Click to shrink...

Robin's got great clothes and Female! Robin isn't sexualized in the way that Female! Byleth and Female! Corrin are so it wins points by default.

 

[Common Knowledge]

Yeah Robin scores some points just by virtue of not having the female version inexplicably have less clothing than the male one.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

I'd prefer someone like Robin again with just no plot importance. Just a player Avatar with interactions with the rest of the characters, but all of the story and plot hinges on the Lords and not us. Basically a mix of Robin and Mark. If they're going to maintain a silent Avatar again they really need to go all out with the dialogue options cause 3H's were a joke. I''d rather have another Robin type with a fixed personality than another Byleth-esq Real DollTM.

Click to shrink...

>Robin

>no plot importance

C'mon, man. Robin is literally the Big Bad of the game albeit he's Grima!Robin.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Robin's got great clothes and Female! Robin isn't sexualized in the way that Female! Byleth and Female! Corrin so it wins points by default.

Click to shrink...

>:( Fair enough.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

They all suck. Robin has some characterization but is extremely boring. Corrin is just an actively bad character who makes monumentally stupid decisions. Byleth is nothing. If had to choose, probably Robin I guess.

Click to shrink...

I slightly prefer M!Byleth to the Robins because I can self-insert and project onto Byleth whereas I can't do that with Robin. Robin is more of a character but Robin's kinda bland albeit inoffensive.

I'd cosplay Robin over Byleth though. Robin's clothes are ace.

 

[Enduin]

>Robin

>no plot importance

C'mon, man. Robin is literally the Big Bad of the game albeit he's Grima!Robin.

Click to shrink...

Uhh maybe read that again, that's why I said "with just no plot importance." I'd like an avatar like Robin, but without the plot importance.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Uhh maybe read that again, that's why I said "just with no plot importance." I'd like an avatar like Robin, but without the plot importance.

Click to shrink...

Ooooh, I see. Fair enough.

 

[zashga]

Robin is pretty clearly the best in terms of writing, though their design is somewhat bland. Corrin has a better design but is terribly written and comes from the weakest game. Byleth is odd. Their design grew on me but is still kind of bland and weird, they don't allow any customization, and they're severely underwritten for being so central to the overall story.

Long story short: Robin is best, Corrin is worst. Byleth is whatever.