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Fire Emblem Community | Anime Game Of Thrones
- Thread starter Shun
- Start date
Jeigans that are actual Jeigans and dont remain good for all or most of the game.
The vast majority of them are good and contribute more than the vast majority of units in their respective games
Really depends on the game. For the localized games that's certainly true, sure.
It's true for the vast majority of FE games. Base stats > growths, always, and contributions > endgame potential.
Sure, never said otherwise. "All the localized entries" IS the majority of FE entries. I never said 'Jeigans suck' or anything of the sort. This conversation was originally about why Kyle and Forde were ranking middling on a tier list. It should be obvious why. That said, FE8 gives you a Jeigan with better growths than most of the units available on top of his great bases, so obviously he is going to outclass all the other units. Kyle and Forde are lacklustre compared to most red/green Cavaliers in the series. At the end of the day, they are still cavs, and cavs are useful.
I don't think "or the localized games that's certainly true, sure." is a necessary qualifier. It's true for every FE game.
As for Kyle and Forde.
You're basically saying they're the worst cavalier cavaliers outside of pure Jeigans, but that isn't true either. I'd wager that every Jeigan is better than those two.
The kids units in Awakening (outside of a select few) are garbage
Again, yeah you could argue that and make a case for it. I'd probably even agree with you. When I say, "they are worse than every cavalier outside of a few Jeigans", that doesnt mean that I'm saying for sure that they are better than any Jeigan in the series. I'm just saying it's possible that they might be, whereas they are definitely worse than any other red/green cavalier pair.
Excluding jeigans (who are good) Forde and Kyle are both better than Alec, Noish, Treck, and Amelia off the top of my head.
Amelia isn't a fair comparison, she's a trainee unit that doesnt even start mounted.
I'm not sure that I buy Forde being better than Treck or Noish.
Already seen this video and disagree with its conclusion given how selective it is with its "Jeigen" example (let's use arguably the best unit relative to the game's overall difficulty in the entire series who boasts decent growth rates for a pre-promoted unit as an example). Your typical Jeigen is nowhere near as useful as the likes of Titania or Seth outside of the early game, nor do they have the same ability to stay relevant as anything but a meat shield (which is what they tend to end up being in most of my playthroughs, frankly. That or early game item storage depending on the entry).
It doesn't matter if you disagree, your premise is faulty.
EXP is never "wasted" on Jeigans for a number of reasons, such as your return on EXP not being that huge to due how leveling up works in FE. Avoiding using Jeigans to not soak up EXP" is an inefficient way of playing, and not even in an "omg i'm doing a LTC." You are literally saying "I don't want to use the best unit at my disposal at their peak in order to make shitty units better down the line, despite the fact that the returns are rarely worth it." Good units will keep up regardless, in spite of Jeigans "wasting" EXP. Meanwhile, the units who tend to be bad need EXP baby fed to them.
Also "Your typical Jeigen" tend to remain useful for the majority of the game. Jeigan himself, who is extremely dominant in both FE1 and FE11 due to his bases and starting loadup (and reclass options in FE11). FE7 Marcus is literally usable from beginning to end. I haven't played FE5 but I've heard Finn is busted, Seth is obviously OP, Titania is OP, Jakob is stupidly busted etc.
FE6 Marcus on Hard Mode, FE10 Sothe and Frederick (Lunatic) are pretty much the only Jeigan I can think of that are being hard benched after a certain point, and even then, they never "wastes" EXP because their combat contributions far outweigh giving a crappy unit more EXP.
Dagdar is the busted Jeigan from Thracia, not Finn, but it doesn't change that the Jeigan in Thracia is still v strong.
And yeah, FE6HM is unplayable for the first 7 chapters without Marcus and he remains pretty strong for a decent number of chapters after. He might drop off but he's still one of the best units in the game by virtue of what he can do early when almost everyone else is totally worthless. He's far better than anyone you have at that point other than Rutger, who also eventually drops off/
And yeah, FE6HM is unplayable for the first 7 chapters without Marcus and he remains pretty strong for a decent number of chapters after. He might drop off but he's still one of the best units in the game by virtue of what he can do early when almost everyone else is totally worthless. He's far better than anyone you have at that point other than Rutger, who also eventually drops off/
I beat Sacred Stones today. The final boss pulled a shenanigan and put the twins to sleep, so everyone else had to pick up the slack. Myrrh was a monster at level 20.
Mechanically I like this more than FE7, but I still somewhat prefer FE7's story. That said I give the edge to Sacred Stones overall.
Mechanically I like this more than FE7, but I still somewhat prefer FE7's story. That said I give the edge to Sacred Stones overall.
They're pretty bad, but they're both definitely better than Fiona.
Arran in the higher difficulties of New Mystery.
Idk, on harder difficulties, early game tends to be the hardest part of the game. Like:
FE6: it's when the hit rates are worst. Your units are very weak and often 2 or 3 hit koed.
FE7: your starting units are really weak. They all have notable flaws. Lowen's offense is awful, Matthew has no attack, Rebecca is lol, Oswin can't double, Eliwood is frail AND also struggles to double, Guy is frail. Like, the only unit other than Marcus that has good offense and defense before noble lady of caelin is Hector.
FE8: ez game yeah
FE9: western version is quite easy. While Maniac mode is also easy, enemies are like 6HKOed by anyone that's not Titania on the early game lol. You legitimately can't beat earlygame chapters on maniac without Titania because you will run out of weapons.
FE10: We all know earlygame is by far the hardest part of this game
FE11: Good luck beating the bosses of the early chapters of this game without Jeigan on H5
FE12: Prologue does make your starting army strong.
FE13: Frederick is like the only unit not 2HKOed at base on Lunatic. Though Robin can catch up by chapter 1, that's requires heavy babying, which makes Fred absolutey essential
FE14 and 15: Yeah, Jeigans aren't that helpful, though Paladin Jakob can be really busted.
So yeah, this doesn't apply to FE4, 5, 8, 12, 14 or 15, but applies to 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 and 13.
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earlygame is usually harder than lategame due to the fact that lategame you've trained up enough juggernauts to curbstomp everything, with the exception of FE12 and to a lesser extent FE6
FE5 also mitigates this to an extent, thought mostly by making it more difficult to train up a select few units courtesy of the stamina system.
Actually, I had forgotten about Shadow Dragon's higher difficulties (actually never bothered with them), but the other ones are entirely doable. Even though you have a really weak team in Radiant Dawn's start levels for example, due to the short levels it's not that bothersome.
And yes, there's Awakening Lunatic too, but I wasn't sure even if that should count since it's kind of a mess overall balance-wise.
On the hardest difficulties, I ditch Marcus as soon as I get my boi Sain. I ditch Old Man Marcus and Marcus 2.0 once you get the Knight Crest. Frederick is with me throughout the entire game in Lunatic. But then again Awakening Lunatic and is pretty bad and isn't fun at all. Barely remember PoR on hard mode, so won't comment on that lol
Maybe I just don't search out fandoms a whole lot online, but the general idea that anyone has to "defend Fates" from the great wave of people who really love Echoes is strange to me.
I don't see a lot of super huge fans of Echoes, it's mainly just people going "ah, that game was refreshing". Fates has had plenty of fans and defenders and is, to my knowledge, the best selling FE game.
I don't see a lot of super huge fans of Echoes, it's mainly just people going "ah, that game was refreshing". Fates has had plenty of fans and defenders and is, to my knowledge, the best selling FE game.
Kyle and Forde have some of the absolute best red/green cavalier designs in the series, IMO. Compare them to the mechanically superior Kent and Sain, and they look worlds more creative and colorful. Kent and Sain are about as vanilla as you can get, aesthetically.
I'll admit that my knowledge of the fanbase is limited.
I feel I see Fates' issues get used often to make Echoes look better, but maybe that's not as common as it seems to me.
Forde and Sain are clearly the most handsome cavaliers in their games.
Unfortunately, that matters little for Forde, because Seth exists, and...
I think that may be it - it's not so much that people like Echoes, but rather the dishonest and hypocritical ways in which it's placed over Fates for wholly superficial reasons.
It's not enough that they like Echoes, they need to prove that anyone who enjoyed Fates was a disgusting pedophile otaku.
...You talk about dishonesty in the same breath as that sentence? Fates is certainly derided a lot in the fanbase, but I've never seen that level of hyperbole—definitely never on this forum.
There's a lot of criticism of Awakening and Fates' sexualization of minors visually and mechanically, but that isn't the same thing as equating any esteem for the game with pedophilia. Christ. There are a lot of reasons to enjoy each 3DS game, depending on one's preferences. There are also very noteworthy flaws in all three, that I hope are improved upon in the future.
I'm sorry Lunar, that's what I read your post as (but seriously that topic has died on a while ago wonder why you brought it back up).
I would say this forum and its predecessor were much worse at it then other forums, but I haven't read SF or Reddit it in a while, so that would be disingenuous. I do know a couple of posters, who don't post anymore due to the negativity here though.
Yeah, the more far reaching Fire Emblem news threads can have a lot of incendiary drive-bys, but outside of random shitposters, I rarely see people gatekeep by insulting fans of specific games. The games themselves are a different story.
Can't speak for the previous forum. I never liked it quite enough to make an account.
Dude, the negativity towards Fates is literally everywhere. In this very thread, on this very forum, on GAF, on Gamefaqs, on Reddit, twitter, etc. It's not necessarily the Echoes fans who are doing this either, but FE fans in general seem to take issue with everything Fates.
The general idea is that Fates is bad or was a huge disappointment in contrast to Echoes which is considered very good or a return to form.
Obviously there are a growing amount of people who defend Fates (Conquest) and more and more people are calling out Echoes for its gameplay flaws, but yeah, it's a thing.
There was kind of a weird discussion going down in a Smash Bros thread of all places, so it was more an attempt to take the conversation that was happening there to here, along with some general confusion about strange bouts of animosity. I probably deserve some Jorts-based punishment for that, though.
Yeah, I know a lot of people dislike Fates, myself chief among them, but I just haven't seen a lot of rah-rah super fans of echoes that leverage echoes to say why Fates was so bad. I see it here and there, but even in this thread I feel like most people were lukewarm on the game at best. But Fates has an enormous fanbase and is pretty well loved, it's always weird to me that people who love the game a lot tend to lash out more than people who want to deride it, at least when it comes to Echoes. But this thread is pretty much my only exposure to any FE fandom, and aside from some weird arguments here and there, it's been largely civil and straightforward.
I think it's just weird because Echoes' flaws are readily apparent and most people I know, myself included, don't really seem to be pushing the game *that* hard. It's just an overall fine game and is a departure from Fates, and for fans who weren't feelin' that, that's pretty cool.
But yeah, Drax reminded me that I've already brought this up before in the past, so it's basically a circular argument.
This ignores the rather sizable contingent of "I was (re)introduced to the series through Awakening (and liked it) but found Fates disappointing" fans though.
I think for me it was just that fates, while mechanically sound, just signaled a weird direction for the franchise that I wasn't positive about. Echoes was almost the exact opposite, and while I'm not fond of everything about it, it made me realize that IS kinda knows what's up.
That said, I kinda doubt I'm the type of person PK is talking about.
In unrelated news, I picked Sigurd in the heroes vote because I want him to win so IS will have no choice but to remake FE4. That's how this works, right?
That said, I kinda doubt I'm the type of person PK is talking about.
In unrelated news, I picked Sigurd in the heroes vote because I want him to win so IS will have no choice but to remake FE4. That's how this works, right?
Jorts aren't a punishment, they are a blessing.
Edit. Fates did alot of good and bad, you can tell it was fucked by it's ambition and alot of shoehorning as well. So I didn't think all games were going to be exactly like that. The face rubbing thing just seed to me to shoehron the Pokemon thing as they were taking a break from Pokemon that year.
I loved the non generic medieval armor/setting for once though. Wished they could have backed it up with a better story and world building.
Edit. Fates did alot of good and bad, you can tell it was fucked by it's ambition and alot of shoehorning as well. So I didn't think all games were going to be exactly like that. The face rubbing thing just seed to me to shoehron the Pokemon thing as they were taking a break from Pokemon that year.
I loved the non generic medieval armor/setting for once though. Wished they could have backed it up with a better story and world building.
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Same. The trailers hyped up its setting so much. I really want them to mix more alternate settings in.
Thabes in Echoes was also a neat departure from medieval fare.
Honestly at this point, I don't know what the overall reception of Fates is. I do know that the people I tend to interact with are the vocal minority, and I also know it's reasonably well received in Japan as well. But I do know this; you should count your blessings. I really mean it when I say that the FE fandom is one of the worst around, in just about every regard.