In a move that is probably laughably predictable, I have to disagree with this somewhat.
Roy is not a nothing character, they just didn't do anything with what's there. He has a weak but smart thing going which can be pretty compelling compared to the other lords if used right, and some of the supports in the game show he has a bit of an inferiority complex(which is why he uses swords instead of following his teacher Cecilia as well as Lilina with magic). Those character flaws could make for an interesting character arc if handled well, and one of the things I hope they look at whenever they get around to remaking FE6.
On the one hand, yes, I did like how he was explicitly the army's tactician. The scene where he outsmarts the Lycian traitor is inarguably his best moment (partly because FE lords are mostly idiots, lol), but my man, he's such a nothing character in the main narrative. He's hopelessly generic, having traits like "is dense when it comes to women" or "is thoughtful and idealistic", which whatever standard shonen, but the problem is that he doesn't react appropriately
ever. Not when
. Not when he reunites with Lilina. Or when he confronts Zephiel. Or anything. His emotions are very muted (contrasted with his father, who is emotional when appropriate) and he's just... he's just fucking boring. Like when he's recruiting people like Hugh, he's unnecessarily humorless, and you absolutely wouldn't expect that from someone his age. Even his sprite is lifeless.
I know that his supports hint at an inferiority complex that could (with the proper writing) make him amazing. Like I can totally see Roy, a studious tactician sort never being able to do well with magic and just feeling really bad about it, but it's sure as shit not conveyed in the main narrative It's a blatant case of tell, don't show, and it doesn't really improve on Roy's character in the ways that matter. Something FE7 really benefitted from (in spite of its flaws) was making the story very character focused. FE6 is "business" for pretty much Roy's entire adventure. A little humanity would have gone a long way towards making Roy better. I really wish he acted his age, because Roy's "journey" is arguably the most arduous for a person his age, but aside from the "oh actually, the pressure is really hard" sentiment he expresses in a support or two, it's never expressed.
And finally, Roy has not earned the right to be negative about himself, because relative to the narrative, he's this kickass hero who can do anything. Even his father sings nothing but praise for him (instead of, you know, be worried about his son)
You skipped over Leif, I'd like to add to that. He's kind of just a figurehead to raise morale in his army due to his birth, he doesn't make the strategical choices for much of the game and one of the few calls he makes is a hopeless suicide mission that gets people killed. It's an interesting idea, but undercut a little by being connected to a game where holy blood makes people special.
It's because I haven't played Thracia, but i'll take your word for it.
Point being that most internationally-released Fire Emblems had quite decent-to-good Lords, something everyone would prefer held true? Haha.
Actually, my point is that the blind worship that people older lords is silly because they're generally mediocre to good, and that aspects of the avatars that people are so quick to call out are traits present in the older lords as well.
Most aren't saying that Avatar = Automatic Bad Game/Story (at least on this forum), just that some aspects of Kris, Robin, and Corrin's avatar status contributed to their respective flawed implementations, and that could be reduced by either (1) recognizing and fixing what they did wrong, or (2) putting the avatar in a less story-relevant position, by which the flaws are automatically removed. Avatars can be quite fun mechanically, they just need to be handled with more self-awareness on the writers' part.
I don't disagree, but those complaints are
consistently blown out of proportion (
in this very thread). Nobody ever really thinks through their arguments, hoping that the dogmatic assertion that avatar = bad is enough to end an argument altogether. The avatars in question each have different flaws, so generalizing them is pointless.
Kris and Corrin are both worshipped by everyone in their games to the point that it's farcical—more than any other Lord, even Alm. Corrin straight-up has a love shack where they rub everyone's bodies, and the crux of the narrative divergence is "nuh uh, they're my sibling!" Neither of those things would have been the case for a non-Avatar character, because they were fundamentally built for one.
I mean, with Corrin it's a mixed case. The pandering towards them in my castle functionality and supports is pretty undeniable (and obnoxious), but I'd argue its mostly segregated from the main game, where it's a bit different. On Conquest, nobody worships Corrin. She is constantly undermined and told what to do. When you fight against the Hoshidans, most threaten to kill you for your "betrayal" (which is a silly thing to put on Corrin, but okay). She's still able to convince people to follow her cause, but like, that's standard FE fare. She can't ever convince the Hoshidans (sans Kaze) to change their mind and join her cause either. You can't stop a lot of deaths either. Like the whole point of CQ is that people hate her and she has to endure it. (Except not really because the writing sucks and is full of filler so you never feel the weight of Corrin's mission. Which is idiotic, lol). Like you wanna fucking talk about player worship, at least Corrin could fail. Echoes has a scene wherein if you let Mathilda die Clive berates Alm for it... only to go back on it and proceed to felate him because "WHY WOULD ALM EVER DO ANYTHING WRONG. THE LOVE OF MY LIFE IS DEAD, BUT IT'S ALM SO I GUESS I'LL LET IT SLIDE. EVERYONE DIES, IT'S REALLY NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL.
In Birthright, it's admittedly a bit worse with the character worship. The characters trust her implicitly; there are moments where she's challenged, but it's mostly superficial. That said, she can't really convince Xander to stop fighting or Flora to stop being an idiot, so I dunno if the "player worship to point of farcical", rings true here either. If BR were a standalone game, people would just call Corrin a mediocre lord and call it a day. She's really more generic and uninspired on that route than anything.
Also, I know Fates is a punching bag, but come on that narrative divergence is
good. The conflict comes from people who Corrin have known their entire life (
her family) arguing with people who demand that Corrin returns to them because they feel robbed of a sibling they never got to have. You can't just its a case of "nuh uh, they're my sibling" when the game has set this up to be a pivotal moment. Or what, do you think that if Corrin wasn't an avatar that either faction would calmly want to discuss which side Corrin should join? There's no way.
The problem comes from how badly they undermine it by making Corrin unrelated to the Hoshidans so they could pander to people who wanted to marry them. It sucks, and it's one of my biggest disappointments with the game.
As for Kris? FUck Kris.
Robin was a fine implementation, IMO, until the narrative decided Chrom should butt out because Robin was the Important One, also something I don't think would have happened if the narrative had been created without an Avatar in mind. We needed more Chrom! There was a lot more room for his development with regard to his hotheaded tendencies mirroring his father, and him choosing to follow Emmeryn's path instead.
I'm just going to quote this fantastic
reddit thread:
The idea here is essentially that while the first arc of the game revolves around Chrom, he loses prominence in the seconds arc, and Robin "hijacks" the plot from Chrom in the third. Thus, by the end of the game, Chrom isn't even the protagonist any more.
Now, the basic idea that Chrom's prominence fluctuates throughout the story is actually sound. The nonsense is the idea that Chrom stops being the protagonist, or that Robin and Chrom are even fighting over the protagonist position to begin with. Asking whether Chrom or Robin is the protagonist of Awakening makes about as much sense as asking whether Ephraim or Eirika is the protagonist of The Sacred Stones. The answer is obvious: they both are.
Chrom and Robin are dual protagonists. They are the first two characters you meet. They're the most prominent characters in the premonition. They get similar amounts of screen time. If that wasn't enough, the game practically spells it out by constantly reminding you that they are "two halves of the same whole." Chrom and Robin are the 80's buddy-cop duo of Awakening. The story is just as much about their relationship as it is about them as individuals.
This works because they both contrast and complement each other well. Chrom is the heart of the Sheperds. He is kind and compassionate. He is the figurehead, the leader who makes speeches and inspires the troops. Despite his awkwardness in interpersonal interaction (especially with women), he possesses a natural charisma that comes out when speaking on topics he is passionate about (maybe he really is Inigo's dad). He operates on a much more emotional level than Robin, who is the brains.
Robin is the brains of the Sheperds. He is the one who crafts the tactics and keeps track of the little details. He is kind of Chrom's opposite, in a way. Robin is the thinker, Chrom is the feeler and the doer. Chrom is the talker, while Robin is the listener. While Chrom shines in the spotlight and is a bit awkward in person, Robin is at his best in person and is awkward in the spotlight.
While it's true that Chrom gets more focus in the first half of the story and Robin in the second, Robin never "hijacks" the plot, because the plot was always shared with Robin to begin with. Hell, Robin's most pivotal plot point is foreshadowed in the very first scene of the game. Chrom and Robin's nature as dual protagonists also leads directly to my next point.
PK we've talked about this before
Changed my mind. Roy sux.
