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Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
How is FE SOE

Kinda wanna play it to scratch my post awakening itch
It's good, very different than the other games in the series though. Maps aren't great in general but it adds dungeon crawling and has great production values/presentation like full voice acting, beautiful artwork, incredible music, and high quality 3D battle animations.
 

Thuddert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,298
Netherlands
The 3D polygons are a bit iffy when you see the front. That's only near the end.

Really enjoyed my time with Shadows of Valentia. Mostly because it does do things a bit differently. And for a remake the quality is superb. Like it didn't set the charts on fire, but it does up the bar for how I want new FE to look and sound like.

Full voice acting FE switch, yes pls.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,244
Full voice acting is probably a safe bet for FE Switch.

The time between JP release and localized versions of Echoes was really fast for this series, I wonder if they'll try to push it to a worldwide release?
It would be pretty cool to see this series pull that off after all the trouble it has had making its way outside of Japan.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
My only regret about Echoes is that no one told me to play on casual.

The dungeons + surprise battles got me a few times
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
I just recruited Oliver in Radiant Dawn and I'm fucking dying. Ike's conversation with him after being recruited was perfect. Why is this a thing lmao.
 

luchikita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
50
Monsters would get in my way a lot while moving on the map, so with that and dungeons I ended grinding a bit in SoV, but it wasn't because it was a hard game. I hated that part of SoV, I want optional battles to be actually optional.
 

Thuddert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,298
Netherlands
Echoes isn't typical Fire Emblem though. The necessity for grinding is a clear design choice in this game.

It's still a strategy rpg. I'm starting to question if we played the same game. We're talking about SoV and not Gaiden with its gimped experience points system.

Forced encounters (this includes roaming enemies) is not grinding. Going out of your way to get stronger is grinding. Like regular trips to the shrines just to grind monsters or waiting on the map for enemies to respawn. These are optional, you can chose not to engage those.

It's not different from how other Fire Emblems tackle it. For example Blazing Blade uses the Arena, Sacred Stones uses Tower of Valni and Awakening uses DLC.

Might as well call it Grind Emblem then.
 

theprodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
685
gaming media is shit at FE, news at 11

low growths (and it's not even that low) doesn't mean you have to grind
 

Mar-Mar

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 30, 2017
333
Germany
I also didn't need to grind for Echoes and played on Hard. It really depends on how you play and how much experience you have I guess. But I hear people complaining a lot about having to grind in certain video games where I didn't think it was necessary; it's different for everyone, but a sentence like
GameInformer said:
The chief problem is that the only way to victory is through grinding
is outright wrong and makes a bad review.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,350
Nah, pal. I had plenty to grind in Echoes. Usually in Fire Emblem it's bad luck when your units get only one or two stats increased with a level up. In Echoes, it's the norm simply because it's designed this way.

That's deliberate. The growths are low partially because the stats you get after changing job are fixed and it's to give incentive to changing as soon as possible.

If you were leveling people in echoes to 20 before changing job other than maybe Celica/Alm, you were playing the game wrong.
 

Thuddert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,298
Netherlands
If low growth is a problem, grinding will not solve it.

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

Again grinding is a fair way to get through RPG's, that option is always available. However the idea that you have to grind to progress is pretty bonkers. Try to learn how the game systems work and use that to your advantage.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
I didn't need to grind, but the high chances of missing in Echoes were really frustrating. It just always felt like everything was too luck based when it came to battles in defensive tiles.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,464
I didn't need to grind, but the high chances of missing in Echoes were really frustrating. It just always felt like everything was too luck based when it came to battles in defensive tiles.

Eh, Echoes uses the single random number hit formula, so the percentages you see for hitting are the actual percentages, as opposed to other localized entries* that use 2RN average formula (True Hit), which makes >50% hit rates higher than displayed, and <50% hit rates lower than displayed.

*Except Fates, which uses a modified 2RN formula that was less extreme, IIRC?

So, yes, Echoes' hit rates were effectively lower, but honest.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,088
I dipped back into Fates for just a spell and I'm reminded how the difficulty for this game actually confuses me.
So I did Conquest on Normal, I started it on Hard but it was kicking my arse so I swallowed my pride and went on normal, which still kicked my ass all the way to the end where my team was boogers.
Then revelations I did on hard which wasn't as tough for me as Conquest normal, I get Conquest was supposed to be the tough one but even so, I feel like that doesn't add up.

Briefly pondering if I could give Conquest another shot I started with Hard Conquest but this time with the casual safety net for the first time....and I still failed my first attempt of chapter 3 of all things because the evasive boss ninja lucked out and then the debuffs left me like "well shiiiiit", safe to say I felt like a colossal jobber.

Even in the opening chapters I'm reminded how awful the plot is...
*meets King Garon for the first time*
"Hey son, Kill these prisoners"
"I'm a sheltered prince with no understanding of this war but NOOO, that's mean"
"YOU DARE DEFY ME?!"
"Killing is bad!" (I get what they're trying to go for here but geez, it's Fire Emblem, this main character is destined to murder a small army)

Then they go to apologise to him later and it's like MANIC VILLAIN LAUGHTER through the throne room door, crumbs they didn't even try to tackle a shades of grey conflict here.
Throw in the siblings on both sides acting so lovey dovey towards Corrin in ways that just feel wrong and I'm sitting here like "you know, maybe Celica's late game fumbling in Echoes wasn't so bad after all".

I couldn't even remember my conquest waifu and revelations husbando because I click with very little of this cast.
Turns out they were Felicia and Jakob, so marriage out of first come first served I guess.

Basically a long way for me to say, I hope I like FE Switch a lot more than this one, it's not a bad game by any stretch but damn, it ain't for me.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
"Killing is bad!" (I get what they're trying to go for here but geez, it's Fire Emblem, this main character is destined to murder a small army)

That's one of the issues with getting a guest writer. Something like that (or later Corrin sometimes being stated to have spared the people he defeated in-game) would work mostly fine in an anime or manga, and it seems to be a fairly common protagonist cliche nowadays. You'd see the character avoiding deaths in real time, but the gameplay loop of FE just goes directly against it. Of course, the story also had issues by itself, even ignoring the clash with the gameplay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
YOO

this dungeon crawling thing in SOE is cool af

just got to the first shrine but what a cool idea to bring back.

would love to see free roaming in FE switch
 

WolfeTone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
YOO

this dungeon crawling thing in SOE is cool af

just got to the first shrine but what a cool idea to bring back.

would love to see free roaming in FE switch

I enjoyed that aspect of the game a lot too. Honestly most of the departures from the norm are probably why I enjoyed SoV so much despite the weak maps. That and the great presentation and arguably best soundtrack in the series.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,015
UK
Thieves are invaluable to open chests and unlock doors with, as well as increasing visibility in fog.

Try rescuing Eliwood with Marcus, since Marcus is sturdy with high mobility, and ferrying him to Legault.

Legault will enter from the bottom right stairs, and try to exit from the top left. Should be able to use a door key and break the walls to reach the top left before he gets there.

Ideally, you'll want to use Legault to steal the Member's Card from the thief with it, since it allows the bearer access to Secret Shops, which sell rare equipment/items. Put the Member's Card on someone and move them to these marked tiles to use the shops (they sell different wares):

latest

I didn't have time to play for a few days but I resumed my game today, I did the above map and managed to recruit Legault, though had to chase him all around the map and block his routes of escape with other characters so Eliwood could corner him

I used him to open all the chests but didn't find a members card, so I guess I've missed that opportunity

Eliwood managed to get a few kills on this map so at least he leveled up a little

Hector is level 11 now, when I get his item that levels him up I'm tempted to take it (not that I know what that item is yet)
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
I didn't have time to play for a few days but I resumed my game today, I did the above map and managed to recruit Legault, though had to chase him all around the map and block his routes of escape with other characters so Eliwood could corner him

I used him to open all the chests but didn't find a members card, so I guess I've missed that opportunity

Eliwood managed to get a few kills on this map so at least he leveled up a little

Hector is level 11 now, when I get his item that levels him up I'm tempted to take it (not that I know what that item is yet)
Don't worry: there will be absolutely no doubt for what item can be used to promote your Lords.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
whats the point of pegasus knights

from my experience they got mobility but will die at the drop of a hat

And whats the point of mercenary class? I made tobin a merc but the class seems like poo and i might switch him

do dead characters in SOE not get cutscenes anymore too?
 

WolfeTone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
whats the point of pegasus knights

from my experience they got mobility but will die at the drop of a hat

And whats the point of mercenary class? I made tobin a merc but the class seems like poo and i might switch him

do dead characters in SOE not get cutscenes anymore too?

Peagus knights are great for mobility yes and some of them make for decent dodge tanks but they are often a liability. I recall the one you get on Alm's route is quite good but I didn't use the 3 you get on Celica's path.

Mercs are probably the best class in SoV. Their final promotion is basically unstoppable especially against the huge amount of mages in the last quarter of the game.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
Mercenaries have a big base speed, which is actually rather pointless for Tobin initially since he has the highest base speed out of the villagers. However, mercenary has two promotions and both also give big speed boosts, and Tobin's speed soon falls behind due to low growths, so it can actually help him later, even if it's not really the best class for him.

Most characters in Echoes actually die when killed, so, yes, they don't appear in cutscenes anymore. There are exceptions though like Clive who is just wounded so still appears afterwards, but only for cutscenes (although in end-game and post game everyone who is defeated in classic mode really dies).
 
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Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
whats the point of pegasus knights

from my experience they got mobility but will die at the drop of a hat

And whats the point of mercenary class? I made tobin a merc but the class seems like poo and i might switch him

do dead characters in SOE not get cutscenes anymore too?
Pegasus Knights are some of the best units in the series because of their high mobility and relatively decent stats. They are fragile at first but investing some time in them mitigates that. Also in Echoes they have increased damage against monsters.

Mercenaries are balanced units who will be your main offensive force. They have high speed and attack so they double a lot and do a lot of damage. They promote into Dread Fighters, which are the best units in the game.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
In most cases, Pegasus Knights are great units. Their mobility allow them to pick off threats which are otherwise hardly reachable, bypass obstacles and attack units which would be otherwise difficult to hit because of a choke point. Almost all Pegasus Knights have very high Speed (and Luck) too, meaning they will almost never get doubled, and they will evade attacks from everyone easily (except Axe users). Finally, they usually have high Resistance, making them fantastic Mage killers.

They do come with flaws which can't be overlooked. They have low to poor Defense in general, same for their HP, and they really can't take too much hits from physical attacks. This flaw is exacerbated by their weakness to Bows, which deals 2 to 3 times more damages than usual against them. Depending of the game, they can also be weak to Wind magic (although that threat is lessened thanks to their high Resistance).

In some games, they can face issues because of the Weight of their weapons. Indeed, Lances can be very heavy weapons, and will impact severely the Pegasus Knight's speed if they use weapons too heavy for them. This is especially notable in the GBA games, in which one must be wary of using weapons which are too heavy for one unit's Constitution (Con)/Build stat. Pegasus Knights don't come with a very high Con stat usually, and as such using lances that hit harder but which are heavier will make their Speed drop to a very dangerous level, and allow enemies to double them in the worst case scenario.
Long story short: don't equip your Pegasus Knights with Steel Lances (Weight: 13), unless you know what you are doing. It will get them killed. I'm looking at you Fiora (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword, second pegasus knight you can recruit, who comes equipped with a Steel Lance when her Constitution stat is only 5, meaning she suffers from a -8 Speed penalty when using one).
On a side note, Iron Lances's weight stat is 8... meaning that even using the most basic lance will make your Pegasus Knights suffer from a speed penalty. It's a good thing they come with a high Speed stat upon recruitment and have high growths, otherwise they would be utterly useless in the GBA games.

The Constitution stat alone has a tremendous impact on how some units can perform in the GBA games. Most Cavaliers/Paladins in these games have a rather high Constitution stat, allowing them to wield Lances and Axes without suffering too much from a Speed penality.
And then you have Isadora, who is an already promoted unit with a Constitution of 6, whereas every single other Cavalier has at least 10 after promotion. Meaning that pretty much every single weapon will weight her down (yes, including most Swords, which are the lighter weapons of that game, aside from Tomes). It really rubbed me the wrong way that the sole female Paladin from that game was afflicted by such a huge handicap compared to her peers. She joins a little late too. Any of the base Cavalier will be way better than her if they are trained, with Kent surpassing her in pretty much every single stat except for Luck, and Sain will absolutely destroy anything in his path thanks to his insane Strenght growth. The only one who she could beat in offense would be Lowen, since that unit's particularity is his high defensive stats (for a Cavalier), and he has mediocre Strenght/Speed/Skill growths (he does have the best Constitution of all Cavaliers/Paladins, allowing him to use heavier weapons without a speed penalty, but that doesn't salvage his low offensive output).
 
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Shengar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,052
That's one of the issues with getting a guest writer. Something like that (or later Corrin sometimes being stated to have spared the people he defeated in-game) would work mostly fine in an anime or manga, and it seems to be a fairly common protagonist cliche nowadays. You'd see the character avoiding deaths in real time, but the gameplay loop of FE just goes directly against it. Of course, the story also had issues by itself, even ignoring the clash with the gameplay.
Wasn't there supposed to be a problem with the guest writer original script which in the end he (or someone else) had to write everything else from the ground up?
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
Leon is head over hills for Valbar, but Valbar is completely oblivious and straight. Leon understands that his love for him is unrequited and do not pursue further, content with just having these feelings.
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,401
Maybe next time we'll get gay characters that are allowed to have fully fledged relationships (with more than one option) without falling into unfortunate stereotypes.

Leon is okay in this regard, but the whole "I'll just pine away for him anyway, instead of moving on" attitude is still pretty lame in the end, though that seems to be a thing in FE.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
I'm not really expecting mature gay characters and mature gay relationships from japanese games. I wish we could have more, but their vision of gay people isn't that great to begin with. They do seem to tolerate more female gay characters (and even then, it's often cases of very close friendship or implied love at best, complete with unrequited feelings) than male ones, the latter being relegated to distasteful stereotypes more often than not.
I guess that, at least, female gay characters have some representation in Japan, whereas in the West you would be hard-pressed to find any lesbian character, implied or not, period (although we did get Undyne and Alphys from Undertale recently).
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,401
I'm not really expecting mature gay characters and mature gay relationships from japanese games. I wish we could have more, but their vision of gay people isn't that great to begin with. They do seem to tolerate more female gay characters (and even then, it's often cases of very close friendship or implied love at best, complete with unrequited feelings) than male ones, the latter being relegated to distasteful stereotypes more often than not.
I guess that, at least, female gay characters have some representation in Japan, whereas in the West you would be hard-pressed to find any lesbian character, implied or not, period (although we did get Undyne and Alphys from Undertale recently).
We have to expect more from developers.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
Wasn't there supposed to be a problem with the guest writer original script which in the end he (or someone else) had to write everything else from the ground up?
Technically what he wrote was a really detailed summary with 500 pages for all three routes, not really the actual final script. According to IS, they did follow that document though. And I think the final product does match that. The problems of Fates' story often are pretty unique to Fates itself, even compared to IS' other modern games.

Edit: Reworded to make it clearer that it was one 500 pages document, not one per route.
 
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Shengar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,052
Technically what he wrote were really detailed summaries with 500 pages for all three routes, not really the actual final script. According to IS, they did follow that document though. And I think the final product that match that. The problems of Fates' story often are pretty unique to Fates itself, even compared to IS' other modern games.
Well the guest writer wasn't well known to write a good manga, let alone a historical/fantasy/dynastic story at that.