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Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
While the second generation was tied to Awakening's story (no matter how loose the ties may have been), the way they handled the second generation in Fates is atrocious. All children could be removed from the game without the story being altered at all. From a story standpoint, children have absolutely no importance in Fates (and the way they handled their aging was stupid - no need to mince words here). From a gameplay standpoint, they serve as special units indeed... and that's it.

I really hope we don't see that kind of system anytime soon, unless the plot calls for it and their inclusion is justified, like in Genealogy of War. And even then, I wouldn't mind seeing that disappear altogether. Pairing people just for the sake of getting offsprings from them isn't very glamorous (and calculating which pairings are the best is another headache, especially when you take into account class change and... yeah, that wasn't my initial point, but you get what I'm saying).
 

Nav

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
With all the talk of Pokemon needing a Breath of the Wild moment lately, I was wondering what people think of Fire Emblem. In retrospect, was Awakening the Breath of the Wild of the Fire Emblem series?
 

Deleted member 2585

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,133
joke's on you the strongest Conquest royal doesn't even have a prf!

....

also hey Speedwings in Conquest are definitely used to "patch up" Xander/Leo's speed (maybe even Beruka if you're using her lol)

Xander and Leo have decent enough speed to double a good number of enemies in every map. Feeding them enough speedwings will let them double everything (which is a good use of speedwings). I agree.

When I was talking about inefficient stat booster use, I was talking more about using speedwings on, I dunno, Benny, or someone who has abysmal speed. Giving Benny speedwings isn't going to make him a better unit since he still won't hit doubling thresholds.

With all the talk of Pokemon needing a Breath of the Wild moment lately, I was wondering what people think of Fire Emblem. In retrospect, was Awakening the Breath of the Wild of the Fire Emblem series?

That would require it to have fun gameplay
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,313
With all the talk of Pokemon needing a Breath of the Wild moment lately, I was wondering what people think of Fire Emblem. In retrospect, was Awakening the Breath of the Wild of the Fire Emblem series?
No, because Awakening just looked back at the series and pulled in any idea it thought was interesting. It didn't really change up the formula, it embraced it.
 

Nav

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
That would require it to have fun gameplay

No, because Awakening just looked back at the series and pulled in any idea it thought was interesting. It didn't really change up the formula, it embraced it.

I see. I've only played the U.S. releases. In that sense, it felt fresh. I wonder what FE Switch will bring. The rumors feel more iterative than drastic imo.

Maybe Heroes is the BotW of Fire Emblem?
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,313
I see. I've only played the U.S. releases. In that sense, it felt fresh. I wonder what FE Switch will bring. The rumors feel more iterative than drastic imo.

Maybe Heroes is the BotW of Fire Emblem?
The only mechanic Awakening created was pair up. It certainly did manage raise the series' popularity, but it was all about celebrating the series' history.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,377
While the second generation was tied to Awakening's story (no matter how loose the ties may have been), the way they handled the second generation in Fates is atrocious. All children could be removed from the game without the story being altered at all. From a story standpoint, children have absolutely no importance in Fates (and the way they handled their aging was stupid - no need to mince words here). From a gameplay standpoint, they serve as special units indeed... and that's it.

As far as story goes, I think the idea with Fates was adding a 2nd generation, due to it being a popular feature in Awakening, without stepping on the toes of the guest written main story. So, the children couldn't really be relevant at all there. Of course, the main problem in the end is that the main story was hardly good enough to justify all the lack of connection between it and various secondary features tied to the My Castle (including, but not limited to the children).
 

Golnei

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,823
In the case of FE 4, I would love to see the remake which hopefully comes at some point would be their original vision for the game, considering a third act was planned but didn't get made due to time limiations. From Wikipedia:

Wouldn't that basically serve the function of Thracia 776 (at least, in a timeline sense)? Also, the memory prisms introduced in Echoes (as well as DLC paralogues not featuring the regular main party) would allow them to flesh out that period a little more for periods that wouldn't really have a great deal of accompanying gameplay.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,313
Wouldn't that basically serve the function of Thracia 776 (at least, in a timeline sense)? Also, the memory prisms introduced in Echoes (as well as DLC paralogues not featuring the regular main party) would allow them to flesh out that period a little more for periods that wouldn't really have a great deal of accompanying gameplay.
No, FE5 is just a side story about Leif in the middle of gen 2, it sounds like that third act would have been in-between the the two generations. FE5 does expand on what happens to a few characters between the two generations in FE4, but there are still many gen 1 characters that just vanish without us ever learning what happens.
 

Lynx_7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,333
Memory prisms are a good addition, but I hope they find a better way of implementing them. Finding scenes that flesh out story details and character backgrounds by clicking on the random shiny thing at the screen surely can't be the most elegant way to do this.
 

Nav

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
The only mechanic Awakening created was pair up. It certainly did manage raise the series' popularity, but it was all about celebrating the series' history.
That makes sense. To someone who had only played the U.S.-released games, it seemed to do much more than just that. But it looks like many other features were explored in games that were never localized here.

I wonder if people want drastic changes for FE Switch, or more of the same?
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,026
Canada
Awakening was at the time the last ditch effort to save the franchise. So they threw in a bunch of mechanics both new and old. Some of them were successful, some not so much. But I applaud Intelligent Systems in saving one of their franchises from utter doom.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
I do often wonder what the big trigger to make FE:A a big seller was. I think part of the reason it sold so well in the US has nothing to do with the game itself, but the idea that the press made a big deal of Nintendo not announcing it for the west and then suddenly revealing it in an interview. Plus, it was on the 3DS which was absolutely starving for games at the time.

As much as I don't like Kozaki's art style, I definitely feel like that was a big part of it too. It's just flashier and more modern.

I actually don't think any in-game stuff really contributed to the sales all that much.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,313
I do often wonder what the big trigger to make FE:A a big seller was. I think part of the reason it sold so well in the US has nothing to do with the game itself, but the idea that the press made a big deal of Nintendo not announcing it for the west and then suddenly revealing it in an interview. Plus, it was on the 3DS which was absolutely starving for games at the time.

As much as I don't like Kozaki's art style, I definitely feel like that was a big part of it too. It's just flashier and more modern.

I actually don't think any in-game stuff really contributed to the sales all that much.

I agree with this, especially with what happened to it with the press for outside of Japan. It also happened shortly after the operation rainfall stuff, so games that weren't localized, especially Nintendo RPGs were a big topic at the time.

Strong word of mouth, improved production values, and I want to say the marketing was decent too because I remember seeing a lot of ads. It had the right things going for it at the right time.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
To be fair, Pair-Up and Casual mode did get picked up in the press and word of mouth for making the game a little more accessible, so it's not to say that the mechanics had no effect.

But casual mode had existed before, and honestly, I think that you could take pair up, the avatar, and the children aspect out and it'd have sold close to the same. But maybe that's just my bias showing.
 

Golnei

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,823
To be fair, Pair-Up and Casual mode did get picked up in the press and word of mouth for making the game a little more accessible, so it's not to say that the mechanics had no effect.

But casual mode had existed before, and honestly, I think that you could take pair up, the avatar, and the children aspect out and it'd have sold close to the same. But maybe that's just my bias showing.

I don't think those mechanics had as much of a pronounced effect; though they did help in conjunction with other factors. Though like the customisable avatar, it's difficult to point to casual mode as a series standard feature when FE12 wasn't released outside of Japan and obviously didn't do much to expand the reach of the series beyond Shadow Dragon - I'd say it was definitely a factor which helped more people get into it and dispelled some of FE's image as an unapproachable series, relative to the Nintendo baseline.

The impression I always got was that the series' profile had gradually been raised in the background (mainly through Smash, which to be fair reaches a very large audience), and the situation of the 3DS coupled with Awakening's own branding and identity provided a very attractive jumping on point for people with a passing interest or awareness of the series - its art direction, production values, the avatar as a self insert, platform and release timing, game balance, accessibility and options, likeable cast with a lot of interaction, even the invocation of widely recognisable elements like Marth in a less offputting context than the DS titles all made it a more enticing prospect than prior games. Even elements like the shipping itself probably weren't selling points specifically to the larger audience (anecdotally, look at players who were surprised to find the marriage system in the game after buying it, or marrying Chrom by accident before even delving into the supports), but the elements which made a smaller section of fans get very invested in them (designs, personalities, writing + localisation, inclusion of some form of VA) would affect how even the most general player might find the cast more endearing and the game more approachable as a result.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
I think it was a situation where the timing was right plus there were enough new elements that, if someone asked "should I give this game a shot even if I didn't play or wasn't big on past FE's", someone could comfortably answer "Yes".
 
Nov 3, 2017
376
BS-X
In the case of FE 4, I would love to see the remake which hopefully comes at some point would be their original vision for the game, considering a third act was planned but didn't get made due to time limiations. From Wikipedia:

I kinda wonder how a Seisen remake would be done. I initially feared it'd be completely overhauled to be Awakening-like but Echos gives me the idea now they may be a bit more conservative.
If it ever was done I would like to see the map design more streamlined (but still give the impression the large mega-maps of the game did back in the day.).
On the other hand, in regards to the story, I think the writing/tone of Seisen sets it apart from the rest of the series so I'd be really afraid of them re-writing anything, especially if the intent was to water down certain controversial elements.
 

Lemina Ausa

Member
Nov 20, 2017
20
Netherlands
I think that, if the Echoes remake shows us anything, it's that an FE4 remake would likely have a very faithful gameplay adapation. And, like Echoes, that's both a good and a bad thing. The large maps really do add a sense of scale to the game, but overall FE4 gameplay isn't anything to write home about (and can be a long, boring slog at the worst of times), and that's coming from someone who considers it one of her favourite FE games. The plot and characters are what really make the game great, and that is where a remake would really shine, since we'd get some great production values and some new artwork. Ohman, imagine Jugdral fully voiced!

The biggest downside to a potential FE4 remake in my eyes is how Heroes basically spoiled the most important plot twist. Many of the newer generation of FE fans won't get to have the experience of going in fully blind, and that's pretty sad. :<
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,377
I kinda wonder how a Seisen remake would be done. I initially feared it'd be completely overhauled to be Awakening-like but Echos gives me the idea now they may be a bit more conservative.
If it ever was done I would like to see the map design more streamlined (but still give the impression the large mega-maps of the game did back in the day.).
On the other hand, in regards to the story, I think the writing/tone of Seisen sets it apart from the rest of the series so I'd be really afraid of them re-writing anything, especially if the intent was to water down certain controversial elements.

The one consistent element in the recent remakes is that map design remains mostly the same. Game mechanics and story additions have all wildly varied from one remake to another, between sticking with the original or doing their own thing, and out of those changes from one remake to another only expanded and modified story seems to have happened due to player feedback. Everything else was just IS trying different things without any real pattern behind them.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
The It Was His Sled trope is in full action regarding Genealogy of the War.

Anyhow, I hope we will have more info on the next Fire Emblem soon. I'm curious to discover how it would look on Switch.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,313
If FE4 gets remade the thing I'd be looking forward to the most is that we would be closer to a FE5 remake, haha. One that would hopefully get rid of bad gimmicks like movement stars and fatigue.

I'd like to see a FE6 remake first though.
The biggest downside to a potential FE4 remake in my eyes is how Heroes basically spoiled the most important plot twist. Many of the newer generation of FE fans won't get to have the experience of going in fully blind, and that's pretty sad. :<
I don't think that knowing about the twist hurts the experience of FE4's story, as someone that played it long after hearing about the twist.
 
Nov 3, 2017
376
BS-X
The one consistent element in the recent remakes is that map design remains mostly the same. Game mechanics and story additions have all wildly varied from one remake to another, between sticking with the original or doing their own thing, and out of those changes from one remake to another only expanded and modified story seems to have happened due to player feedback. Everything else was just IS trying different things without any real pattern behind them.
There's some mechanics I'd like to see IntSys adjust in a Seisen remake but one of he big problems is that the item system, one of my most annoying pet peeves, was designed around the relationship/inheritance system for a reason, and simply being able to trade items normally like other FE entries neuters the whole aspect... it's a tough thing to handle. I also can't imagine how they'd make non-mounts more viable with the large maps.

And yeah, story rewriting is a scary thought.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,313
I also can't imagine how they'd make non-mounts more viable with the large maps.
That one is actually pretty easy, add rescuing or pair up. They wont fall behind if the mounted units are carrying them.

Also, adding a normal trading system wouldn't hurt it, since we could move items around by selling and buying and it's not hard to get money for a unit with how the arena works.
 

Sölf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,946
Germany
I still need to finish Valentia at some point. I am somwhere in the beginning of act 4 and have done 3 or 4 battles there so far.
 

Lemina Ausa

Member
Nov 20, 2017
20
Netherlands
Even though it's not really that bad in practice, I hate the way items and trading are handled in FE4. >_>

I, too, also need to finish SoV at some point. I'm really enjoying it, I've just been easily distracted and having a hard time focusing on stuff for the past... several months. I'm also in the small minority of people who actually enjoyed the original Gaiden, so the gameplay isn't even that awkward to me.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
To be fair, Pair-Up and Casual mode did get picked up in the press and word of mouth for making the game a little more accessible, so it's not to say that the mechanics had no effect.

But casual mode had existed before, and honestly, I think that you could take pair up, the avatar, and the children aspect out and it'd have sold close to the same. But maybe that's just my bias showing.

Casual mode was introduced in FE12, so it might have as well been introduced in Awakening as far as most fans are concerned. And children (and to a lesser extent, the avatar system) absolutely had a huge effect on Awakening's reception. The appeal of pairing nearly any 2 people together and having kids definitely played a significant role in its success, since it was a fresh and novel thing. Even the more hardcore players got a kick out of pairing units together and making the "ultimate" child unit.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
Casual mode was introduced in FE12, so it might have as well been introduced in Awakening as far as most fans are concerned. And children (and to a lesser extent, the avatar system) absolutely had a huge effect on Awakening's reception. The appeal of pairing nearly any 2 people together and having kids definitely played a significant role in its success, since it was a fresh and novel thing. Even the more hardcore players got a kick out of pairing units together and making the "ultimate" child unit.

Popular feature, but I don't know if it actually contributed to sales. at least in the US. Maybe to the overall positive word of mouth, but I don't think it makes up the difference between it and previous games in the series. I still think Awakening would have sold just as well without it.

That's not to say that it wasn't welcome, I'm not shitting on the concept. It was really fun for that game and a neat twist on stuff the series had played with in the past. It's just not as vital to Awakening's success as some people think it is.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
Popular feature, but I don't know if it actually contributed to sales. at least in the US. Maybe to the overall positive word of mouth, but I don't think it makes up the difference between it and previous games in the series. I still think Awakening would have sold just as well without it.

That's not to say that it wasn't welcome, I'm not shitting on the concept. It was really fun for that game and a neat twist on stuff the series had played with in the past. It's just not as vital to Awakening's success as some people think it is.

I dunno man, I don't think people came to FE just for just the core gameplay. Superb presentation and accessibility went a long way, but at the end of the day it was a strategy RPG, which isn't the most popular genre. There had to be incentive for people to truly dig into it, something to make your average joe buy it. That incentive was the child system, on top of everything else. It was like the perfect storm of game mechanics; you had this shiny new RPG with a feature most players have no really experienced before that caused people to talk. Like there's a reason they shamefully reused the concept in Fates; it had mass appeal.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
To be fair, Pair-Up and Casual mode did get picked up in the press and word of mouth for making the game a little more accessible, so it's not to say that the mechanics had no effect.

But casual mode had existed before, and honestly, I think that you could take pair up, the avatar, and the children aspect out and it'd have sold close to the same. But maybe that's just my bias showing.
Eh, Casual Mode was integral to Awakening's success, it encouraged a lot of people to jump into the series who otherwise would not have. We know it was added in FE12, but as far as the West is concerned, Awakening was the first game to have that feature. Same goes for the Avatar, that was all new to the western audience. Pairing was a huge part of the continued word of mouth too.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
I dunno man, I don't think people came to FE just for just the core gameplay. Superb presentation and accessibility went a long way, but at the end of the day it was a strategy RPG, which isn't the most popular genre. There had to be incentive for people to truly dig into it, something to make your average joe buy it. That incentive was the child system, on top of everything else. It was like the perfect storm of game mechanics; you had this shiny new RPG with a feature most players have no really experienced before that caused people to talk. Like there's a reason they shamefully reused the concept in Fates; it had mass appeal.

It's extremely possible. It's hard to peg down what made Awakening such a big hit, and that's why I think Fates was the feature-laden monstrosity it was. I don't even think Intelligent Systems knew, so they kinda threw everything from awakening in there, even if it didn't fit. Fates was such a funky game because they clearly heard hardcore fan feedback and created conquest from that feedback, but for the new influx of casual players, they kinda had no idea what the magic bullet was. So everything came back.

I'm just staking the claim that Kids wasn't the thing, and it kinda shows in how unpopular the kids were in Fates. I'd even argue Pair-Up, which was somewhat nerfed in Fates also contributes to my idea that there wasn't really any one feature that made Awakening sell better than the other games. I really do think it was a product of timing.
 
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PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
It's extremely possible. It's hard to peg down what made Awakening such a big hit, and that's why I think Fates was the feature-laden monstrosity it was. I don't even think Intelligent Systems knew, so they kinda threw everything from awakening in there, even if it didn't fit. Fates was such a funky game because they clearly heard hardcore fan feedback and created conquest from that feedback, but for the new influx of casual players, they kinda had no idea what the magic bullet was. So everything came back.

I'm just staking the claim that Kids wasn't the thing, and it kinda shows in how unpopular the kids were in Fates.

I guess when you put it that way, I agree. All of those featueres probably all contributed in creating this monstrosity of an RPG with mass appeal (though I feel kids played a larger part than the others), and with Fates they tried to catch lightning in a bottle again but it didn't work.You can't just do the same thing twice and expect it to land after all.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
It's extremely possible. It's hard to peg down what made Awakening such a big hit, and that's why I think Fates was the feature-laden monstrosity it was. I don't even think Intelligent Systems knew, so they kinda threw everything from awakening in there, even if it didn't fit. Fates was such a funky game because they clearly heard hardcore fan feedback and created conquest from that feedback, but for the new influx of casual players, they kinda had no idea what the magic bullet was. So everything came back.

I'm just staking the claim that Kids wasn't the thing, and it kinda shows in how unpopular the kids were in Fates.
The kids were only unpopular in Fates because they were implemented so horribly. If they had been built into the concept and storyline well, then people would've been all over it. Instead, they feel tacked on and the explanation for their existence is aggressively stupid.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
I guess when you put it that way, I agree. All of those featueres probably all contributed in creating this monstrosity of an RPG with mass appeal (though I feel kids played a larger part than the others), and with Fates they tried to catch lightning in a bottle again but it didn't work.You can't just do the same thing twice and expect it to land after all.

Well, to say it didn't work isn't true: Fates is the highest selling game in the franchise. Sure, I may have problems with it here and there, but it's one of the more impressive games in the series, feature bloat and all. I'm personally just saying it's a sign that Fire Emblem, as a concept, as a brand, was suddenly popular again and I don't think there's any one feature to peg that on. It's not like, say, Persona, where I can comfortably say the day-to-day calendar system radically transformed the series and is pretty much the major reason for 3/4/5's popularity relative to previous games in the series. Just don't feel that with the features introduced in Awakening.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
Well, to say it didn't work isn't true: Fates is the highest selling game in the franchise. Sure, I may have problems with it here and there, but it's one of the more impressive games in the series, feature bloat and all. I'm personally just saying it's a sign that Fire Emblem, as a concept, as a brand, was suddenly popular again and I don't think there's any one feature to peg that on. It's not like, say, Persona, where I can comfortably say the day-to-day calendar system radically transformed the series and is pretty much the major reason for 3/4/5's popularity relative to previous games in the series. Just don't feel that with the features introduced in Awakening.

Oh don't get me wrong, Fates (Conquest) is my favorite game in the franchise so I didn't intend to call it out. I meant the child system specifically didn't land this time around when compared to Awakening.

And man, Awakening might not be as transformative as P3 was for the franchise, it came damn close.
 

theprodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
685
Well, to say it didn't work isn't true: Fates is the highest selling game in the franchise. Sure, I may have problems with it here and there, but it's one of the more impressive games in the series, feature bloat and all. I'm personally just saying it's a sign that Fire Emblem, as a concept, as a brand, was suddenly popular again and I don't think there's any one feature to peg that on. It's not like, say, Persona, where I can comfortably say the day-to-day calendar system radically transformed the series and is pretty much the major reason for 3/4/5's popularity relative to previous games in the series. Just don't feel that with the features introduced in Awakening.
not yet it isn't!
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647

I coulda sworn it passed the mark just a while ago.

Also, are you going to get an avatar?

And man, Awakening might not be as transformative as P3 was for the franchise, it came damn close.

P3 was almost a completely new game compared to 1 and 2. It retained some elements, but it's a huge, radical departure. With "Modern" Fire Emblem, I feel like they just tilted the perspective a bit. FE has always had a huge emphasis on characters and increasing emphasis on Support convos alongside the staple tactical gameplay, but I feel like all awakening did was tilt it a little more towards the Support Convo side. Sure, Pair-Up, Children, My Castle, etc all contribute to this shift towards support convos, but I don't think that those individual elements themselves are crucial to that shift.

Still, while those changes helped, I really think it was timing more than anything, at least in the US.
 
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NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,377
I don't think it was the children system by itself, but the general amount of gameplay/progression possible outside of battles, rather than just a linear chapter structure, (open map, large number of supports, and, yes, marriage/children allowing players to go for their own pairs and see the fruits of that). Still, the marriage and child system was a big part of that.

Fates hurt those features since they lacked connection to the main game, almost like the past FE cameos in Awakening. I also felt like with Fates they deliberately shafted the 2nd generation. Design-wise, someone like Inigo or Owain looked about as heroic as the main cast in Awakening, but the 2nd generation in Fates all look younger and "lesser" than the first gen. And although they're usable instantly, they lack features like unique weapons, and even full class inheritance which can hurt them compared to their parents gameplay-wise.

I coulda sworn it passed the mark just a while ago.

We got a 1.9 millions number a few months after the worldwide launch, but later there was a chart for Heroes' launch that had Fates only around 1.2 millions, IIRC, with Awakening above it with 1.6 millions. It's not clear what that means, but most people seem to assume that the earlier and higher number was counting the Conquest/Birthright DLC paths, rather than just the base games. If that speculation is right though, it seems like Fates saw a significant drop in international numbers coming from Awakening, considering how it sold more than Awakening in Japan itself.
 
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Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
Interesting, I hadn't heard that. I wonder if the series "peaked" with Awakening then, or if Fates was a tiny bit of a turn off due to any specific reasons.
 

theprodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
685
We got a 1.9 millions number a few months after the worldwide launch, but later there was a chart for Heroes' launch that had Fates only around 1.2 millions, IIRC, with Awakening above it with 1.6 millions. It's not clear what that means, but most people seem to assume that the earlier and higher number was counting the Conquest/Birthright DLC paths, rather than just the base games. If that speculation is right though, it seems like Fates saw a significant drop in international numbers coming from Awakening, considering how it sold more than Awakening in Japan itself.
The correct numbers here are 1.84m, 1.6m, and 1.9m respectively.

but yes
 

Deleted member 3862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
940
I'm still chipping away at Fates. I bought Conquest, finished it on hard, and ended up buying Birthright and Revelation, but put the game down and didn't come back to it for a long time. I've been playing Birthright on Lunatic/Classic, and honestly it hasn't been as hard as I thought. I'm still pretty early in the game. Getting through the first five chapters without losing anyone was tough, but as soon as I got to Birthright proper the challenge simmered down a bit. I just got to Chapter 9 and have died a few times. It's tough because you start in a little room surrounded on all sides, and I can't seem to endure that first wave yet. I've only tried a few times so far though. Looking forward to pouring some time into it over Thanksgiving break.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
The Michalis GHB has made me remember how much of a shit character he is

I mean I know it's early FE so this is par for the course, but he does Minerva so damn dirty
 

Lynx_7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,333
We got a 1.9 millions number a few months after the worldwide launch, but later there was a chart for Heroes' launch that had Fates only around 1.2 millions, IIRC, with Awakening above it with 1.6 millions. It's not clear what that means, but most people seem to assume that the earlier and higher number was counting the Conquest/Birthright DLC paths, rather than just the base games. If that speculation is right though, it seems like Fates saw a significant drop in international numbers coming from Awakening, considering how it sold more than Awakening in Japan itself.
That makes more sense. 1.9 1.84 always seemed too big of a launch for a franchise like FE, specially when you consider Fates had considerably less buzz than Awakening back then. It never even reached OT2.

It's true that Awakening came at a very fortunate time in the 3DS's lifecycle and that certainly helped with its success, but I feel like Fates did nothing to capitalize on that momentum. Its launch had people whining about "censorship", localization issues (whether warranted or not), complaints about selling the different routes separately, etc. It tried to expand on what made Awakening successful with mixed results like that weird Amie mini-game (because audiences loved supports so let's give them even more shipping opportunities, no matter how out of place the whole thing feels) and shoving in child units because that's what worked in Awakening. Gratuitous cameos, recycled designs for fanservice's sake, sometimes it felt like a game with an identity crisis. I love Conquest for its gameplay, but the whole package is kind of a bloated mess. It all seemed a little too much even for Awakening's audience, I remember how a lot of people were saying they had hundreds of hours on Awakening but were already burnt out from Fates at the end of their second route. Echoes coming right after with little to no fanfare also doesn't help, but hopefully that's just because people moved on from the 3DS in general.

As for Awakening, its success comes down to a likeable cast of characters, a character-focused narrative to complement said cast, lots of polish and QOL improvements over past games, presentation, casual mode, make your own avatar, and an increased focus on shipping. People like to joke about waifus but the latter was definitely a big factor on the game's success. Audiences like seeing characters they care about getting together, specially if it has both gameplay and story repercussions (you get rewarded for shipping your favorite characters by getting even more likeable characters, each with their own set of conversations and pairing options) and one of said characters also happens to be sort of a self-insert. I mean, even Bioware throws that stuff in their games because they know it works. Timing was important, yeah, but that alone doesn't explain how the game took off. Awakening was a more commercial product than past games and I doubt something like Radiant Dawn or New Mystery of the Emblem would've been as successful in its place.
 
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WolfeTone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
Chapter 10 is now kicking my ass. I regret saying Lunatic wasn't that hard. Shit.

This is the one in the forest with all the ninjas right? I haven't played it on lunatic but on hard it was a pain dealing with the stat reductions. I made heavy use of pair up whenever someone was weakened by a ninja. Their reduced stats don't matter when they're the secondary partner. Also make use of Takumi, he can one hit kill almost anyone on the map.
 

Deleted member 3862

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
940
This is the one in the forest with all the ninjas right? I haven't played it on lunatic but on hard it was a pain dealing with the stat reductions. I made heavy use of pair up whenever someone was weakened by a ninja. Their reduced stats don't matter when they're the secondary partner. Also make use of Takumi, he can one hit kill almost anyone on the map.

I've been working at it all afternoon. I was able to make some progress by flying some units down to the south part of the map to deal with them and using Rinkah to draw people in since the ninjas can barely damage her. Takumi definitely comes in handy as well.