Yall need to start letting people of color, especially women of color, have some power over there.
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Finland gets world's youngest serving prime minister, government now headed by all female panel
- Thread starter Deleted member 14459
- Start date
Yall need to start letting people of color, especially women of color, have some power over there.
Yeah l remember the law.
It doesn't promote integration but assimilation.
the whole package they want with higher sentences for people who live in certain areas could possibly be interpreted as none racist only if you ignore whothey will practically target in real life,
Sometimes I like to imagine a world in which Warren wins and appoints an all female diverse cabinet in the US next year...
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It is fine to discuss this since the OP is also a tangent on SocDem politics in Denmark, and it current young female PM. I don't know if you have read the actual law that was passed last year, but the core is as follows according to Danish media:
Children from areas designated as "ghettos" and "hard-ghettos", who are not enrolled in a day-care program as one-year-olds are put into compulsory learning program/25 hours per week. The goal is to "ensure that the children develop good Danish language skills, in addition they must also get to know Danish "traditions and festivals, such as Christmas, Easter, Constitution Day, birthdays and celebrations.". They must also learn democratic norms and values, such as boys and girls being equally worth, that one must respect different views across gender and background. The program shall not include a nap-time.
The new type of institution should be free for parents, but they have to pay for lunch and nappies. "Ghettoparents" who want to care for their child themselves may be allowed to do so if they are able to teach the child Danish language and traditions. This will require supervision from the municipality, and both parents will speak Danish similar to what is required to pass 9th grade.
If the parents do not deliver their child, the child support check can stop.
Source: https://www.tv2ostjylland.dk/aarhus/bornechecken-ryger-hvis-born-fra-ghetto-ikke-kommer-i-vuggestue
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Finland is good at gender equality but poor at tolerating different races. It's still very common to hear racist jokes in work places etc.
Not really. About 5% of our population is foreign born and about half of them are from other European countries. We don't track ethnicity per se, but primary language and place of birth are tracked.
For what? She's not the first young PM we've had (though she is the youngest by a couple of years) nor the first woman.
I think there's one POC representative in the Finnish Parliament at the moment. An iraqi descendant who caught a shit storm of his own due to his earlier homophobic and anti semitistic writings. He is from the same party as the current PM.
This is true.
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Every majority white country on this planet is racist. Hell, every country on the planet is racist or bigoted in one way or another.
These homogeneous nations (Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Denmark, Japan, etc.) are extremely racist but you don't hear about it/see it often because they have such small minority populations who have no voice.
America is racist as fuck but there are tons of people of color here with a voice so you hear about it often, because people are constantly fighting against it publically.
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There's two, there's Bella Forsgrén representing Greens too.
If we're talking about politicians other than MP's who have some prominence, we could add Nasima Rarmyar. Former MP who gave up the position to become the vice-mayor of Helsinki.
Well the Brie Larson hater club will have something new to complain and make videos on.
Not when we have already reduced our emissions from 1990 by over 20%. This past year China alone raised its emission more than 5 times of what our emissions are for the whole year. Why the hell do we need to ban cars in a country where people have to travel long distances to work and ruin our industries while the rest of the world does jack shit.
It's going to be hard to explain but I'll try. Social Democrats traditionally represents the working class. Marin, the new prime minister is to the extreme left, even more than the leader of left alliance.
The minister in charge of government holdings got sacked a little over a week ago when she was caught in a storm involving pay reductions to postal workers. She either lied or didn't do her job correctly and mass strikes ensued. Now she's coming back as municipal minister.
The foreign minister demoted an official from the foreign department for not illegally arranging the transfer of isis fighters wives and children who are held in a camp in Syria. The minister lied about there being a plan for the transfer and is apparently continuing in his job.
I wanna see that figure when the tax hikes and other actions start hurting the voters wallets.
Right-wing talking points, racist fear-mongering, and peddling baseless conspiracy theories? Wow, what a trifecta of garbage from you. As usual, your posts on this site are fucking gross. I have no idea how you've lasted this long.
Yeah, I'm sure you're the expert in Finnish politics. I'm sorry that I don't fit in your bubble.
Yeah. We're one step away from the conservatives bringing the fash to power. I hate them all. I hate them so much. In the truest sense of the word. But hey, it's nice to see things going in the right direction in the neighbouring countries. Right, as in left. So that I won't have to move all that far when the shit hits the fan.
Racist how? Opposing isis terrorists being transferred to my country?
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Please enlighten us with a coherent outline of
1) how Marin is "practically a communist" - including a coherent definition of "communism"
2) Show exactly how the foreign minister was trying to "smuggle" ISIS women and children in secret and what constituted the "illegal arranging of the transfer"
3) Who has proposed " banning cars " in Finland?
- and please provide sources for each of these points.
Ok, firstly. Nobody is banning cars, that's just pure delusion.
It's what the reactionary propaganda machine wants you to believe. Same shit like the myth that wood burning is also going to be banned by the EU.
Secondly, people really don't actually travel that long distances. Most of the trips made by cars are under 5km. Long distance trips are still a reality and needed, we know this, but it's not that all people have to travel long distances, most don't.
I don't know where you got the industry ruining part. Like what is that even? And rest of the world not doing jack shit does include the rest of the EU, right? You know the place we are a members of and where countries do more than Finland.
She was a minister of Local government and ownership steering, the ownership steering has now been taken away from her. Granted, I'm not very happy about that development either. But she doesn't get to do the thing she fucked up in.
But this is how it goes. The parties fill the positions, if that's what the party wanted, that's what we'll get.
And again, the Greens still have faith in the man and they named him for the position, that's how it goes.
Marin wants to ban ICE cars: https://www.is.fi/politiikka/art-2000006331858.html
That 5km might apply inside cities, even if there. The fact is people outside large population centers need cars and many can't afford buying electric ones.
Our forestry industry is going to get ruined if EU gets its way with how many trees we can harvest. It's our biggest and most important industry.
Yeah the rest of the EU is hardly doing jack shit, Poland and Germany are huge coal users. Some countries at least try but when the big countries don't, it's useless.
Secret isis plan: https://www.is.fi/politiikka/art-2000006328005.html https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000006337682.html
Attorney general opening investigation on Haavisto: https://www.is.fi/politiikka/art-2000006337914.html
Greens having faith in the guy is hardly convincing.
Ah yes, the women and children abused by ISIS are the 'real' terrorists. Fuck off.
Abused? As in traveling there willingly? Many are openly supporting their ideology? Many of the women kept fucking slaves? I mean the kids might have just been brainwashed, the women did this to themselves and deserve no help.
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I'll start here, as this is presumably your definition of "communism". The yellow press article you are linking is basing it's statement of "banning ICE cars" on the election engine answers by Marin - now I would in these times of alternative facts, suggest you would take the time and look up the source yourself - it is not hard - her answer in full:
"The next government should set a timetable and plan for prohibiting the sales of new internal combustion engine cars for private passenger traffic and the shift towards biofuels in the heavy transport sector. Timetable-wise we are speaking more of a post-2030 scenario rather than the coming years. E.g. in the UK and France the plan is to prohibit the sale of new ICE cars by 2040, Sweden and Netherlands by 2030 and Norway by 2025. It is noteworthy that among carmakers the development is also tilting towards phasing out ICE cars. E.g VW plans to stop producing new ICE cars by 2026"
Yes, so Marin is toeing the same program of communism as VW. Was this all or do you have more well-sourced illustrations of how Marin is going to seize the means of production and the abolishing of the state?
Mate, the only terrorism you need to worry about in Finland is domestic terrorism by white supremacists.
Maybe you know a few.
Some/many of these women might have been forced or been brainwashed themselves to going. And even if all of the women went willingly, the children should be helped at the very least (and arguably the women too). Instead you just called all of the children along with the women terrorists.
For the topic: It's really cool that we have a completely women-led goverment for once. Almost all of them under 35, to boot. Lot of the political landscape in the parliament has been in need of a generational shift for a while now - glad to see it's happening.
Calling Marin a communist seems pretty weird to me.
Calling Marin a communist seems pretty weird to me.
If you dig deeper in to her answers, you'll find that she holds very extreme left and authoritarian views. Very different from the traditional Social Democrats.
I'm opposed to violence. White supremacists and religious fundamentalists can go to hell.
True. The children should be taken back if they're not radicalized. The problem is the Kurds are not going to let the children leave without their mothers.
Those who committed crimes should be prosecuted there.
Yes, Marin has stated she'd want to ban ICE cars. But that's not "ban cars", so goalposts have already been shifted. And even then, even if it's the opinion of our soon to be PM, it is not going to happen. Finland is not an autocracy. If we look at the government programme what it reads regarding cars is:
The basic gist is that the aim is carbon neutrality. It means both increasing carbon sinks and decreasing carbon sources.
Our forest industry is big and important, yes. But now it's our government fighing against rest of EU (apart from few allies) on this issue. So is the government fighting for or against the industry interests now? Previously ruining industry was government's fault and now it isn't? Did I miss something here?
About doing something for GHG emissions: now we're gone from no one else is doing anything to some are doing better but not everyone. And the question I have to ask is why should we care? If someone's not able to curb their emissions, they're doing a shit job. That's not a reason for us to do a shit job too. Or is it?
I know about the secret ISIS plan. It was a poor plan. But it sounds more sinister than it is, the articles you linked even stated that it was not about "ISIS terrorists transferred to our country". The plan was to bring only the children of Finnish background to Finland from camps. Not their mothers or fathers. And anyway, it didn't work as even the Finnish law states that it can't be done. How Haavisto handled the situation was not ideal at all. And really, I'm not a fan of his.
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The burden of evidence is squarely on you - you have bashed others for lacking expertise in Finnish politics, but refuse to produce evidence of Marin's practical communism. No one else here has said Marin is practically a communist except you - but now it is up to me - who does not even speak Finnish - to produce the evidence of your claim? If you are unable to produce a coherent narrative of what constitutes practical communism, you can set the bar lower and show these "extreme left" and "authoritarian" views she holds.
https://vaalikone.yle.fi/eduskuntavaali2019/8/ehdokkaat/549?lang=en-EN
You can run it through Google translate if you want.
Ah yes, all those teenage girls who were groomed and then raped repeatedly were 'willing'. Your mindset is so fucking vile.
I'm not aware of any Finnish teenagers having been groomed. My understanding is that all the women who are at the camp left there as adults and some may have taken their children with them.
My knowledge about different nationalities is pretty much zero.
The Chinese government is being shit so other countries should follow suit, who needs a habitable planet anyways? This logic is flawless. Ha! Costa Rica must be feeling really stupid with their green energy and shit.
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Could you point out the extreme left and authoritarian views? Skimmed through and didn't really notice anything special. Also according to that she holds similar views to 79% of her own party. Doesn't sound very different from rest of the party.
The reason you're getting shit here is because you're just throwing out "communist" like nothing. Nothing in those answers indicates that SDP is going to turn this country into Xi Jinping's China. What do you think is "extreme left" here?
Bullshit media like Suomen Uutiset or MV do that all the time - anyone who doesn't think like PS does is a communist. Even some Kokoomus (center-right party) people have been called communist because PS has made that word mean nothing. Same thing has happened with "Marxism". Women's rights is Marxism. Gay rights is Marxism. It's all PS propaganda.
You're incorrect in this case. These ISIS women went in there as adults and are not victims of anything. Many of these women still hold radical views today, which is why it's not a simple decision to just take them in. And this info comes from non-bullshit media. Being women does not make them innocent, they are most likely in favor of conservative gender roles that ISIS enforces.
I'm just saying that we have already done a lot for the environment and we shouldn't have be a "global leader" in cutting emissions even more.
Maybe it's just the extreme choices or something in between the lines that makes it seem worse than it maybe is.
Also 78% with the communist party, but SKP is just a joke lol.
The leftist parties have communist history since the civil war and the left alliance practically were communists not that long ago. Seeing the Social Democrats steering in that direction makes me worried.
A communist she may be not but time will tell.
Plenty of these women are adults NOW, but were teenagers when they were coerced into going to ISIS territory. Adult women can be coerced, manipulated, and abused as well. Regardless, what that poster said was bullshit.
So your response to hope like hell there are no other Finnish people on Era.
User Banned (2 Weeks) - Trolling, misrepresentation of issues, accumulated infractions
I know there's a ton of Finnish people here. The guy who I replied to is not and seems to have a grudge against me.
I know, my posts are edgy and ridiculous.
I don't think having reasoned arguments against conspiracy theories and hyperbole constitutes having a grudge.
The constant misrepresentation of Marin's views as communism and peddling conspiracy theories of ISIS smuggling just serves to turn the discussion of a historic moment into a cesspool.
And the ambition to turn Finland carbon neutral is great economics if you were to follow how much the cleantech sector has developed and is one of the key areas for Finnish exports, as well as the reason behind the huge success of Neste, the Finnish (bio)fuel company. Again, by sticking to populist rhetoric you are missing out on why the national strategy is extremely solid.
Edgy isn't the word I'd use. Removed from reality maybe. Confused definitely.
I'm a bit worried about you as what you've said is like a confusing mess of conspiracy theories, misunderstood labels, lack of understanding of the political system and propaganda talking points.
I mean, you talk about SDP moving towards communism, I don't see it. Could you give in your own words a definition of communism? I'm lost.
Its nice to see women in positions of power. If only the rest of the world would follow through and provide a female voice in politics.
Hopefully this is only the first step however, and soon we will be seeing more underrepresented people given power to help balance things out, especially PoC and trans people who appear to be vastly underrepresented.
Hopefully this is only the first step however, and soon we will be seeing more underrepresented people given power to help balance things out, especially PoC and trans people who appear to be vastly underrepresented.
Hopefully we can start focusing on the interesting part, such as that Marin has a special background, she has been raised by a LGBT family of her mom and mom's female partner. She has a 22-month-old daughter.
I think that is exactly the type of diversity we need in positions of power, where she can relate to a much wider group of populace than boomer guys.
I think that is exactly the type of diversity we need in positions of power, where she can relate to a much wider group of populace than boomer guys.
Yes, also that she's the first one in her family to finish gymnasium (high school equivalent) and get tertiary education. For which she credits the Finnish welfare state system, giving her the opportunity to do so regardless of her background. She has worked as a cashier and has been on unemployment benefits and welfare during her life. There's much more going on there.
We're definitely not talking about someone with a priviledged background here.
It's a good reminder that Finland has globally extremely high class mobility. Much more than the US or the UK.
I highly recommend this NYT article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/07/opinion/sunday/finland-socialism-capitalism.html
There is a case to be made here. This article mentions tuition-free college and universal health care as being considered basic requirements for business-friendly nation.
This is what the right wing populists don't usually share. Usually it's misrepresenting national economy as being similar to business or household economics. And if you look everything solely as income and spending, it's understandable - but that's not how national economies work.
What we hear a lot in recent discussion is the question "how are we going to afford that?"
I'd say we can't afford to not invest in social policies, infrastructure, education etc.
edit: should clarify a bit: Populist talking points are generally on the lines of should we or shouldn't we do something, really black and white. While in real life the discussion is more on the lines of how much and how.
edit 2: the article you linked is really good, thanks for sharing.
I feel the need to quote this:
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I'm also sure she is the only head of government who is on public record stating Rage Against the Machine as favorite band.
This aside, she was also among the staunchest supporters in SocDem party of the trans law in Finland
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