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OP
OP
NineConsonants
Oct 28, 2017
5,210
1. They have the technology to not only repel any invaders in the past, but to completely hide the existence of thier country. Why would they focus on making weapons at max efficiency at the cost of forsaking traditional standards for wide-scale combat when that isn't their policy to begin with?

2. This is a movie based on comic books, not a documentary on a prototypical futuristic African country devoid of the influences of Western culture. Of course aesthetic is going to be the focus. The internal logic of the style of the culture works, and thats what's more important. The spears and cloaks are fairly practical, are more advanced than the guns/armor the rest of the world have, and at a glance still appear to be the "primative" weapons of dirt farming Africans in an impoverished country which is lending to the idea that they are hiding from the world.

3. You still seem stuck on the idea that guns are an inherently modern or perfected design rather than realizing that the guns we have now are just the perfected design of a specific styling of a weapon developed in specific culture(cultures if you consider the Chinese fire-lance a primative "gun" although that design influenced early Europeans and the European musket and rifle largely replaced them in design and purpose). I don't mean to call you out on your biases in a way that implies you aren't "African enough" or any BS like that, but all of your arguments seem to condemn anything that looks too "stereotypically African" while treating anything not specifically African as both "more modern" and "advanced". Whether its condeming the use of the spear(which IS a traditionally African weapon even past the hunter-gatherer primative roots), or the aesthetic of Wakanda's architecture and clothing(which draw from African cultures and styles), or the way their governing system works(with the implication that their system is "barbaric" and that something closer to democracy or other Western governing systems is inherently more "advanced"), you can't seem to divorce yourself from the idea that there should be something else, something more Westernized to represent this imagined African nation, because what is shown, things that are inherently African but still common enough to be digestible to worldwide audiences is somehow lesser than what you define as "advanced". Hell, the fact that you are so hung up on disregarding tradition, regardless of what part of the continent you are from, is a distinctly "non-African" mindset and a bit telling on where your biases lie.
It's flat out stupid to think "naw we don't need more efficient weapons. Let's keep these spears that fire out projectiles even though it's terrible to aim with. We really just wanna keep this spear design no matter what. Besides, it's not like they're at our level." That just isn't how any military should think.

And I never said they needed to make modern day looking guns. I said guns are way more effective at long range combat than freaking projectile firing spears. Why not come up with a design that is even more advanced and better than guns at long range combat?
 
OP
OP
NineConsonants
Oct 28, 2017
5,210
Yeah, but in real life, there's not such thing as a spear that also shoots lasers. In this fiction, there's no reason a laser shooting spear couldn't effectively counter a gun w/ bayonet.



Who's to say a laser weapon can't have a high rate of fire?



Which, again, really doesn't matter when we're talking about a work of fiction. If the Wakandans can look cool using weapons that would, in real life be unwieldy, so be it. That's Hollywood.
The spears don't even have any sort of instrument for aiming. In Infinity War they are just holding a spear up to their eye and firing without having anything helping them target.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,135
Washington
Yeah.... trying to guilt trip them into the same opinion as you on a comic book movie isn't going to work. And its a bad look on top of that. You are criticizing the movie, learn to accept criticism of your ideas as well.

It's a comic book or it's just a movie are lazy criticisms that are just downplaying some one's opinion rather than actually debating the actual opinion. If you feel "it's just a comic book" then just stay out of these discussions cause there is no point in even discussing it if you don't want to take the topic seriously.
 

GeminiX7

Member
Feb 6, 2019
600
It's a comic book or it's just a movie are lazy criticisms that are just downplaying some one's opinion rather than actually debating the actual opinion. If you feel "it's just a comic book" then just stay out of these discussions cause there is no point in even discussing it if you don't want to take the topic seriously.
People have given arguments that aren't just "its a comic book movie". Thats just one of multiple reasons. You are willfully ignoring every other point when you make posts like this.
 

Vinci

Member
Oct 29, 2017
669
Can respect the take and the concerns. That said, the spear is one of the most used weapons in human history in real-world combat. It's not immensely practical to simply tech it up, as its not as convenient to carry as other forms of weaponry, but it isn't out of the question in a society like Wakanda that (as shown) holds into traditions very strongly.
 

TheFuzz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,497
I guess you guys are all cool with terrible representation of an entire continent of people because "hey its a comic book movie".

I look forward to your post about Elizabeth Olsen's Russian accent slipping in and out and sometimes going into southern-California surfer-girl cadence in between the documentary films "Age of Ultron" and "Captain America: Civil War."
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,865
Wakanda seems to be a place that's supremely proud of its heritage, going as far as to shape their technology on that in a way that seems to celebrate it.

Who came up with the concept to begin with out of curiosity?
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,135
Washington
People have given arguments that aren't just "its a comic book movie". Thats just one of multiple reasons. You are willfully ignoring every other point when you make posts like this.

You are being disgenious here. The discussion thread I responded to was responding about the many people who were downplaying the original post because it was a comic book movie or "it wasn't real". Basically a lot of people who pretty much downplaying his comments not with reasons why he was wrong but just, "it's a comic book movie/not real, stop taking it so seriously".
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
But ultimately, it is just a depiction of non-specific African cultures frozen in time being along side basically magical tech. I mean, if this same concept was done in Japan, would we expect Japanese to still be locked in Feudal Japan customs with shonen-lords and samurai/ninja aesthetics everywhere? If this asteroid landed in Britain, would we expect everything to be a medieval knight setting? A lot of the African depictions in Black Panther are just lazy. For crying out loud, you have skyscrapers with hut-like roofs just because I guess that's what people lazily picture as "African". People's cultures change and adapt over time. Things like spears and animalistic clothing are not some inherit part of being "African". It's just wrong to reflect back ancient customs and traditions as if it is something as "African" versus that simply being the state of Africa at that time. Hell, in Infinity War, they have spears shooting like its a gun....You can have an African soldier be armed with something that doesn't look like a damn spear, you know.

I agree with you, OP. This aspect of Black Panther will age really badly and be seen as exploitaitive by future generations. It worldbuilding by way of 'take what white people know of Africa and just make it futuristic' rather than extrapolate. It reminds me a lot of:

latest
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,051
I look forward to your post about Elizabeth Olsen's Russian accent slipping in and out and sometimes going into southern-California surfer-girl cadence in between the documentary films "Age of Ultron" and "Captain America: Civil War."
She's not Russian though? In the MCU it's between Slovakia and Czech Republic and also the accent doesn't sound even remotely Russian, it sounds sort of vaguely Eastern European.

Also I can kind of forgive her accent given how long she's been living in the US. I know a lot of people whose accents slip and change when they move, especially if moving also means learning a different language.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
I agree with you, OP. This aspect of Black Panther will age really badly and be seen as exploitaitive by future generations. It worldbuilding by way of 'take what white people know of Africa and just make it futuristic' rather than extrapolate. It reminds me a lot of:

latest

It's like none of you looked into the people that made this movie. In all the takes concerning Black Panther, this one is new to me.