Finally playing the Ancient Gods DLC makes me further understands how some people have the *incorrect* opinion that Doom'16 is better than Eternal

[DrunkDadbr]

2016:

Slayer Senpai!!! You're so amazing!!!! So BIG!!!! Here some doritos and mountain dew for you


Eternal:

They call you ... "Slayer"? Let us see about that.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I get what people like about the mechanics in Eternal, but just everything about the feel of 2016 was perfect to me, and Eternal just doesn't replicate that in world design, story, music, etc., even if the gameplay was better (and I honestly don't prefer it).

 

[PanzerKraken]

Once I got a grasp on Eternal's systems, it felt like micromanaging at a high speed. The high speed didn't make this thrilling, it instead emphasized the tedium of how all these systems interacted with one another. It's hyper-kinetic spinning plates.

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Exactly this, is why I hated Eternal. Battles stopped being fun and dynamic feeling once I learned it's basically procedures you learn, and it's just rinse and repeat with on high difficulties also got worse as if you missed a step in the process, you would lose. The combat design with weaknesses and such restricted gameplay more than actually opened it up. Instead of me just playing for fun, I felt like I was stuck playing a game of following a rhythm instead.

 

[Deleted member 3208]

Doom 3. And frankly it was a better story then it had any right to be (especially considering the movie, ugh).

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I don't want to be rude, but when the villain is so obvious, it is hard to consider it a good story.

And I do like Doom 3. Even though it is mostly horror than action, it is still quite good, and graphically it left me dumbfounded by how good it looked back then. Only real flaw is that shitty shotgun.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Ancient Gods actually cemented to me that Eternal wasn't as fun. The last boss basically has to be defeated in only one way. A far cry from having more freedom in 2016.

I've said before I think it's ironic people will applaud Doom Eternal for mechanics they'd condemn in any other character action game.

 

[Remark]

people keep saying this like the game constantly makes you platform or something. you can count the significant platforming sections in the game on a single hand. truly a bizarre take.

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Yeah Eternal only had a couple platforming sections and honestly they were fun to break up the shooting imo.

2016 was purely about fury road push-forward carnage, Eternal is about evade-and-manage-resource-pool skill-based trials.

Both are great, depending upon what you're after.

I love Eternal's 'fun zone' but it took me forever and a day to finally find it (by way of playing and playing and playing some more until the mechanics became subconscious), but sometimes the game is just spamming way, way, way too much in your face at one time. Its balanced more towards KB/Mouse or elite controller (w/ back triggers) too.

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That's the one thing I agree with on Eternal, the game mechanically just does not work on controllers at least without back triggers. Too much going on for standard controllers. The best way to play the game honestly is on PC imo.

 

[Darren Lamb]

I haven't beaten Eternal yet, but I'm very close. I think it's the better game overall, but ngl I lowered the difficulty since I didn't want to have to play in the exact way the game wanted. Doom 2016 feels a little slow by comparison but I liked the freedom in combat more

 

[Edward850]

I don't want to be rude, but when the villain is so obvious, it is hard to consider it a good story.

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Knowing who the villain is, is hardly something that makes a story bad. Heck a common element in murder mysteries is already knowing who committed the murder. Sometimes things don't need to exist just for a plot twist.

Also I said the story was obviously a critical part of Doom3 and that it was far better than it had any right to be, I didn't say the story was the best thing since sliced bread. Sure it wasn't award winning, but for what it was with the story told in the PDAs and videos and their various subplots involving staff and hacking and the ongoing conspiracies and how that all weaved into the present, it was great to have.

 

[SofNascimento]

Progressed a little further into the DLC. Meet that fucking blue ghost demon. I hate it. Which means I love it. Another great piece of the puzzle that is Doom Eternal, another thing that you have to take into consideration and react properly. I got into Heaven (I guess?) and also fought that fucker who needs to be killed by a headshot when he's vulnerable.

This game just keeping getting better that it's scary. Truly a blessed development team.

 

[Wreckord Collection]

I feel like Eternal is a hardcore FPS fan's idealized game that is also alienating to folks that lack a strong dedication to the genre. For the players that love the genre, it's is a magical experience. It's pretty cool watching what they can do in nightmare and ultraviolence settings, but I'm not that person, nor do I particularly care to put in the time to be one of those people. For all the cool stuff about Eternal (overall sharper map design, interesting takes on encounter design), it never offered a challenge that felt right for me. It always felt a few degrees more frustrating than I cared for and I'll always think of 2016 more positively because of that.

...well, that and how much I didn't like the platforming sequences and marauders.

EDIT:

That's the one thing I agree with on Eternal, the game mechanically just does not work on controllers at least without back triggers. Too much going on for standard controllers. The best way to play the game honestly is on PC imo.

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Holy shit this! Playing Eternal on a console with a standard controller is rough. Trying Eternal out on a friend's PC was eye opening.

 

[Geeker]

I felt eternal controlled better on a gamepad than halo infinite, but it mostly due to how awkward grenade and skill are to change. There is an element to it in eternal as well tbf with switching the Grenade types

 

[medyej]

The platforming is just something to do in between fights, but it does help you with learning movement that you can use to your advantage in fights. Especially in some arenas where you really should be flying through the air constantly. I also think the platforming might be harder for controller users who have to take their thumb off the look stick to jump.

Doom Eternal is probably the best shooter of all time, it's such an insane step up for the genre that it feels like when DMC1 came out in 2001. I get why people like 2016 but for me it's almost impossible to go back to it after playing Eternal.

 

[404LinkNotFound]

The debate between these two games reminds me of the debate between whether SMB3 or SMW is the better mario game or If Alien or Aliens is the better movie

 

[yap]

i just put the jump bumper on LB, dash on RB and put the cooldowns and weapon wheel on the face buttons when on gamepad. Felt real good, tbh.

 

[tok9]

A bit of a side but I bought the game on bethesda launcher when it came out. Just wondering if I can play the DLC on gamepass or you have to buy that separately?

 

[yap]

A bit of a side but I bought the game on bethesda launcher when it came out. Just wondering if I can play the DLC on gamepass or you have to buy that separately?

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You have to buy separately, unfortunately. Gamepass doesn't do dlc unless it's a complete edition, iirc.

 

[tok9]

You have to buy separately, unfortunately. Gamepass doesn't do dlc unless it's a complete edition, iirc.

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I was thinking that, thanks.

I do want to check out the DLC sometime but I never really look into whenever it goes on sale.

 

[Pyramid Head]

I felt eternal controlled better on a gamepad than halo infinite, but it mostly due to how awkward grenade and skill are to change. There is an element to it in eternal as well tbf with switching the Grenade types

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There's so much bloat in Eternals weapon loadouts, it's ridiculous.
There's absolutely no need for two different types of grenades. I didn't use the freeze one at all outside of the few times I had accidently hit the wrong key and switched to them.
I found the sword completely redundant too. Its essentially just a melee BFG. Like if you want me to one-shot a bunch of enemies, just give me an extra BFG ammo instead.
Getting rid of those would cut down the amount of inputs you have to needlessly juggle by a couple of buttons.

 

[Truant]

IMO the Doom reboot series peaked with the Foundry level from 2016.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Once I got a grasp on Eternal's systems, it felt like micromanaging at a high speed. The high speed didn't make this thrilling, it instead emphasized the tedium of how all these systems interacted with one another. It's hyper-kinetic spinning plates.

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That's largely how I felt too. I was pretty good at it… it just wasn't very fun.

IMO the Doom reboot series peaked with the Foundry level from 2016.

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100%. When it was a tightly paced mashup of Doom, Quake and Descent(!!) with its own sensibilities, it fucking rocked. Like, smashing guitars and lighting stages on fire rock'n'roll rocked.

 

[direct_quote]

There's so much bloat in Eternals weapon loadouts, it's ridiculous.
There's absolutely no need for two different types of grenades. I didn't use the freeze one at all outside of the few times I had accidently hit the wrong key and switched to them.
I found the sword completely redundant too. Its essentially just a melee BFG. Like if you want me to one-shot a bunch of enemies, just give me an extra BFG ammo instead.
Getting rid of those would cut down the amount of inputs you have to needlessly juggle by a couple of buttons.

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Aren't there 3 types of grenades in doom 2016? Sword replaces the chainsaw not killing super demons.

 

[A Strong Latte]

i used the sword as a delete archvile button.

i think they knew it was wack hence the hammer in the ancient gods 2

 

[SofNascimento]

1 out of 2 updates.

I'm close to the end, I'm in that part with the massive war in Hell.

So far it's been fantastic. And the Hammer is the best addition to the gameplay loop I could have imagined, being able to kill Marauders with 1 stun and concentrated firepower is fantastic.

OP not sure what difficulty you're playing on, but let me know how the Ancient Gods 1 final boss goes for you. I adore Doom Eternal but found that boss fight to be the absolute most absurd stupid bullshit I've encountered in many years lol.

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I'm playing on Nightmare. I thought the first boss fight was pretty great. If there wasn't checkpoints from phase to phase it might have been really tiresome, but I thought it was very fun. It does somehow play against FPS strengths by having you being very much aware of your surroundings, with lasers and whatnot, but I think Doom understands this and that's why the environmental hazards are very forgiving in terms of damage.

 

[skeezx]

Eternal felt like trying to craft an origami swan while getting your head bludgeoned with a hammer. i don't know if i can ever get around to the DLC

not that it's not a great game, but play it in the wrong mood/mindset.. woof

 

[hydro94530]

1 out of 2 updates.

I'm close to the end, I'm in that part with the massive war in Hell.

So far it's been fantastic. And the Hammer is the best addition to the gameplay loop I could have imagined, being able to kill Marauders with 1 stun and concentrated firepower is fantastic.



I'm playing on Nightmare. I thought the first boss fight was pretty great. If there wasn't checkpoints from phase to phase it might have been really tiresome, but I thought it was very fun. It does somehow play against FPS strengths by having you being very much aware of your surroundings, with lasers and whatnot, but I think Doom understands this and that's why the environmental hazards are very forgiving in terms of damage.

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God it's been a while but I remember having to start over each time I died. I guess that means I never made it passed the first phase lol. Man that was not the fight for me lol.

 

[Rat King]

Doom Eternal gameplay destroys Doom 16. Talking about story is nonsensical because I think no one plays these games for that but yes, Eternal was specially stupid.

 

[MisterAnderson]

There's so much bloat in Eternals weapon loadouts, it's ridiculous.
There's absolutely no need for two different types of grenades. I didn't use the freeze one at all outside of the few times I had accidently hit the wrong key and switched to them.
I found the sword completely redundant too. Its essentially just a melee BFG. Like if you want me to one-shot a bunch of enemies, just give me an extra BFG ammo instead.
Getting rid of those would cut down the amount of inputs you have to needlessly juggle by a couple of buttons.

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What the heck...the two grenade types are insanely useful and freeze bomb is OP as hell lol. Out of curiosity were you using a controller or mouse/kb? Personally I'm convinced this game has way too many actions for a controller to be ideal, but for m/kb it's fine.

 

[Gitaroo]

I want a DOOM 2016 remastered in ID tech 7

 

[TheCthultist]

I absolutely loved Eternal's base game and multiplayer components. Ancient Gods capitalized on everything I disliked about the combat and story, then cranked those portions up to 11.

Eternal on its own is absolutely on par with 2016, if not slightly ahead in many ways. The DLC dragged it down from there, for me…

 

[kimbo99]

Never have I heard of people playing Doom for its story. Y'all must the aliens or perhaps I am.

 

[bounchfx]

Never have I heard of people playing Doom for its story. Y'all must the aliens or perhaps I am.

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right? last thing I expected to see in here is so much discussion about story like what
Eternal has better gameplay
some people like 2016's simplicity better. that's cool
eternal is better

 

[skeezx]

Never have I heard of people playing Doom for its story. Y'all must the aliens or perhaps I am.

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i think point of contention isn't so much the story but the tone.

me personally i love how stupid it got with Eternal but i can see how it comes off the wrong way for some

 

[jamsy]

Looking back at it, I think I enjoyed Eternal more even if I had some issues with it - too many shitty platforming bits that didn't work and the last couple bosses were a pain in the ass. Overall, the speed and variety of the game, as well as all the systems working together made it shine a bit brighter.

I tried the Eternal Gods DLC the other day and holy shit, it doesn't go easy on you - especially since I forgot how to play. I needed a break after the first 30 min or whatever and haven't gone back to it. Need to do so though.

 

[E-bite]

Both are great games, it really comes down to personal preference. but I'll say this, without the incredible story and characters of Doom 2016, eternal would have not gotten the same amount of praise it ended up getting. on the opposite side, 2016 had no right to be as good as it was and managed to -against all odds- bring doom back to the forefront of the fps genre.

 

[Virtua Sanus]

I do not really care about the story of either game, it is just a vehicle to explain the location I am in currently for all I care.

2016 is far from perfect but Eternal ironically I find kind of boring. I totally get the appeal of spinning all of these plates at once and I surely do not hate the game, but I think they went way too hard in on the concept and I almost feel as if the game is almost on rails or memorization based with how your arsenal has to flow. Everything connecting like that on top of canned glory kills and stuff, it just feels like the actual shooting is somehow secondary.

A way I see it is that Doom 2016 is a bit like the Batman Arkham games, maybe one of the lesser titles. It has good ideas, good tools and is solid fun but meanwhile Eternal feels like the challenges in one of the better Arkham games where you can technically play however but the challenge is specifically designed in a way so that you nail the perfect flow and use the gadgets the game designers wanted where they intended. Those Batman games are some of my all time favorites but I do not think I ever finished more than 10 of the challenges across the entire series.

 

[thepenguin55]

Doom 2016 took a stupid story seriously, and it was great
Doom Eternal took a stupid story far too seriously and it was a lesser game IMO

There is a lot to talk about in regards tp the gameplay, sure, but I loved the story and tone of 2016, and that all went away with Eternal.

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Actually it felt like 2016 DIDNT take the story seriously while Eternal took its story very seriously. Whether that's actually the case or not that's how it felt to me.
I want to give Eternal another shot but man that game's gameplay really put me off. The difficulty is fine but the way the game layers it's gameplay gimmicks just made the game feel like such a tedious checklist-like chore to play.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

The changes to the chainsaw and ammo really hurt eternals loop. I had way less freedom to approach encounters due to that, often limiting my weapon selection or hunting a tiny enemy to chainsaw with my 1 gallon

2016 also didn't have all the damn trips to the space station killing pacing

 

[LilScooby77]

Eternal is perfection.

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Yes and ID needs to leave 2016 lovers/eternal haters behind imo.

 

[CliveLH]

Eternal is everything I'm looking for in a fun modern FPS. It's far better than 2016 imo.

 

[Deleted member 10270]

Overall, 16 is a much better game than eternal. No question

 

[gitrektali]

Eternal might be the best FPS game ever made

 

[dskzero]

Doom 2016 took a stupid story seriously, and it was great
Doom Eternal took a stupid story far too seriously and it was a lesser game IMO

There is a lot to talk about in regards tp the gameplay, sure, but I loved the story and tone of 2016, and that all went away with Eternal.

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Being shot out of a cannon into another planet, ripping and tearing, the obviously tongue in cheek references to warhammer 40K (which also is tongue in cheek), the whole ridiculousness of it all, the easter eggs, the platforming with the bright Quake III style items, the glory kills being as funny as they are...

I must have missed where there was something taken seriously in this game.

 

[DanceToTheRadio]

I personally find the gameplay loop brilliant, it's the most engaging FPS I've ever played. I think it's a significantly better game than 2016, a major improvement in the most important aspect, the gameplay. I didn't find it exhausting, I found it exhilarating. I don't play DOOM games for the story, to me it's nothing more than to get me from point A to point B. There's for sure many improvements to be made in future games, but the last thing I want is a step backwards to be more in line with 2016.

 

[Pyramid Head]

What the heck...the two grenade types are insanely useful and freeze bomb is OP as hell lol. Out of curiosity were you using a controller or mouse/kb? Personally I'm convinced this game has way too many actions for a controller to be ideal, but for m/kb it's fine.

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I played on PC with mouse and keyboard. Perhaps it's laziness on my part but the chainsaw fills your ammo, glory kill fills your health, the flame belch fills your armour and the frag grenade pops crowds of flaming enemies to fill it all faster. All of those inputs on top of buttons to switch weapons, buttons to switch to BFG, buttons to switch to you sword thing, buttons to switch weapon mods... another button to switch grenades was one too many and I just wasn't willing to engage with it.

Being shot out of a cannon into another planet, ripping and tearing, the obviously tongue in cheek references to warhammer 40K (which also is tongue in cheek), the whole ridiculousness of it all, the easter eggs, the platforming with the bright Quake III style items, the glory kills being as funny as they are...

I must have missed where there was something taken seriously in this game.

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It's the tone. There's something weird about the tone of Eternals story. It's somehow waaaay dumber but seems to want the player to take it more seriously at the same time.
Like what the fuck is a Hell Priest? Who the fuck is this old doom marine guy I'm getting this important MacGuffin from? What the fuck is this MacGuffin? What the fuck is this ghostly dog that shows up to lead you somewhere that one time and what the fuck happened to it after that? Who the fuck is this ghostly king you meet and bend the knee to? The Doomslayer seems to who exactly who and what all these things are and unlike 2016 he seems to care very deeply about it all. I could know too I guess, if I wanted to read the hundreds of pages of codex and law the game keeps throwing at you. But I really didn't want to.

 

[dskzero]

It's the tone. There's something weird about the tone of Eternals story. It's somehow waaaay dumber but seems to want the player to take it more seriously at the same time.
Like what the fuck is a Hell Priest? Who the fuck is this old doom marine guy I'm getting this important MacGuffin from? What the fuck is this MacGuffin? What the fuck is this ghostly dog that shows up to lead you somewhere that one time and what the fuck happened to it after that? Who the fuck is this ghostly king you meet and bend the knee to? The Doomslayer seems to who exactly who and what all these things are and unlike 2016 he seems to care very deeply about it all. I could know too I guess, if I wanted to read the hundreds of pages of codex and law the game keeps throwing at you. But I really didn't want to.

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This seems like a very personal pet peeve to you .

None of this seemed any puzzling or confusing, nor did it seemed taking itself seriously at all at any time. It's as serious as Warhammer 40K.

I guess not being familiar with similar media might make the tone feel weird, but as a whole it felt like an over the top sciencie fiction tale with ridiculous scale, situations and scenes. I feel like Doom has always strived to do this (except, maybe, Doom 3).

 

[NuclearCake]

Going from Eternal back to 2016 is like going from SMB3 to Mario Bros the Arcade game. It is just a less interesting game in just about every way.

Fuck the tone or the story if the gameplay puts me to sleep. Doom 2016 came very close to putting me to sleep with the mindless repetition.

Eternal is one of the best game ever made.

 

[burialsociety]

I find it interesting how Eternal's combat is frequently criticised for being too restrictive when it allows for much more variety and creativity than 2016 ever did. I mean, just look at this as an example. Though part of that is definitely the game's fault. It emphasises the importance of weak points throughout the early game even though targetting them isn't even optimal.

And, yeah, Eternal's writing is rubbish. But I prefer rubbish that I can almost completely skip rather than being locked in a room while a character exposition dumps rubbish at me like 2016 did.

 

[dsk1210]

Eternal is more like DMC (Doom May Cry).

 

[SofNascimento]

2 out of 2 update.

Finished Ancient Gods 2. Pretty great, but I found the last run in hell surprisingly forgiving. Although I did have a lot of lives and that rune that allows the player to get them back if you kill the enemy that killed you. The last boss was good, although I think not as good as I wanted him to be. They could have dared more. I was a fan of the ending though, it felt like a prequel to those stories that have the trope of a "huge evil force sealed away in the past that will return now". You're that force.

Doom Eternal is certainly one of the best FPS ever made, and a triumph of design.

Also, what's the deal with horde mode? I played it a while with only the shotgun but eventually got the ballista. Now I was gonna play it a bit more and I'm starting from the beginning again?

 

[bes.gen]

no its not, lol. i find the constant need for validation for this take interesting though. its like same thread over and over again.

get over it, some people (was the majority at last thread) prefer the first game.

So why was there so much criticism towards Doom Eternal when it launched?

I remember hearing things like the game was too difficult, that the platforming was ridiculous, and the design of the game was just a mess. Being as I'm just a casual fan of the series, it made me put off playing the game till recently and I expected to just hate it. Well, after just beating...

www.resetera.com

no they are not incorrect, you don't have a deeper understanding of game design.