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Finally playing the Ancient Gods DLC makes me further understands how some people have the *incorrect* opinion that Doom'16 is better than Eternal
- Thread starter SofNascimento
- Start date
My thoughts exactly. As far as gameplay goes, I like both games. Eternal is an evolution of 2016 yes, but 2016 is already amazing on it's own.
Doom 2016 is mediocre and I really can't play it anymore.
Doom Eternal is one of the best games ever made and a crowning achievement in the FPS genre.
Doom Eternal is one of the best games ever made and a crowning achievement in the FPS genre.
I liked both a lot and got 100% secrets in both, but by the time I got to the end of Eternal, I was really ready for the game to wrap it up. All the mechanics you have to think about at the same time gets exhausting after so many hours to the point where it's like "fuck, another encounter??"
After this same cyclical debate raged in the OT way back, I revisited 2016 after years to see if indeed it was such a lesser experience to what I finished in Eternal alongside everyone else at launch.
Turns out I missed some mechanics(Shotgun grapple, moar weakpoint opportunities).
Some things I didn't really miss(managing freeze/flame belch cooldowns as a crutch for maintaining the survival pendulum).
Damn near everything else was better in 2016. Tone, story, sense of purpose, place. A cohesive journey. Eternal was indeed fun to experience in combat, but I had a great time backpeddling to 2016. Still felt it edged out its sequel despite some missing combat variety.
Turns out I missed some mechanics(Shotgun grapple, moar weakpoint opportunities).
Some things I didn't really miss(managing freeze/flame belch cooldowns as a crutch for maintaining the survival pendulum).
Damn near everything else was better in 2016. Tone, story, sense of purpose, place. A cohesive journey. Eternal was indeed fun to experience in combat, but I had a great time backpeddling to 2016. Still felt it edged out its sequel despite some missing combat variety.
I'm not understanding what you mean. Doom 2016 never took its story seriously, that's what made it so fun. It was full of 4th wall breaks and tongue and cheek humor. The Doom Slayer literally ignoring the story was part of its charm.
I don't think just repeating all of that again in the same exact fashion for Eternal would work. The story definitely doesn't take its self that seriously, but its spends a lot of time expanding on the lore of the Doom universe in game versus relegating everything to a codex entry (Eternal was building off of a lot of the lore that was established in 2016).
I'm curious as to how the these elements were actually better in 2016? Is it mainly that 2016 primarily took place on Mars? Not trying to argue, but to me; a lot of the thematic tone and plotting of 2016 caried right over to Eternal. The major differences to me were the gameplay and level design.
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I have to really disagree with the criticism that DOOM Eternal pigeonholed players into using specific tactics. Both of my playthroughs were full of improvising when it came to what guns I used for which enemies.
Like, you don't need to use the shotgun grenade launcher or machine gun scope to destroy the spider brain monster's weakpoints when using the rocket launcher's lock-on burst always puts that enemy into a glory kill state. You can also use the ballista or the plasma gun or the machine gun's micro missiles.
Like, you don't need to use the shotgun grenade launcher or machine gun scope to destroy the spider brain monster's weakpoints when using the rocket launcher's lock-on burst always puts that enemy into a glory kill state. You can also use the ballista or the plasma gun or the machine gun's micro missiles.
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Doom Eternal is my favorite FPS full stop. I played it at launch but didn't give it a chance. I revisited it a year later and played through it and the DLC and I saw the light. Everything in it flows. I even love the platforming! And dying doesn't bother me. It's almost like a Super Meat Boy type experience where I just jump right back in and try again.
The whole pigeonholed gameplay argument always irked me as there's a mountain of examples of high level play that are many times more diverse in Eternal than 2016. Eternal actually has an extremely high skill ceiling.
For every great cutscene like the one you mention, there are 3 cutscenes of pointless exposition that nobody cares about. Doom 2016's story was great because there was none of that nonsense. It was all action, all violence, all stupid all the time.
eternal I probably played like 3 times consecutively when it came out and I'm still not bored of it.
2016 i think has a great first couple levels (first 3 or 4 are bangers) but the hell stuff is a drag
I prefer 2016, but fully agree that the combat limitations are not a thing in Eternal. You really do have multiple options at play and rarely did I feel that I was stuck doing rote weapon combinations on certain foes. Effectiveness did alter, but it's not a single key puzzle as some argue.
Personally, I just wasn't always a fan of the ice and belch cyclical survival mechanic, or rather it was the only aspect that felt a bit too forced through many encounters to maintain properly.
Agreed with the bolded. But didn't like Ancient Gods much. Eternal felt perfect but Ancient Gods felt too rigid with the even more specialized enemies. It pushed the combat more toward tedium than difficulty for me.
Gameplay wise I agree.
Everything else is such a downgrade. I really didn't care for the stupid story or the downgraded asthetic.
Everything else is such a downgrade. I really didn't care for the stupid story or the downgraded asthetic.
I don't think the argument is that you can only kill X with Y weapon, but with Cacodemons for example they become trivialized with the grenade and have such a prescribed "answer" in a game that is constantly rubber banding your limited ammo that I would always use the grenades on them.
Was always confused when people INSISTED you HAD to snipe the rocket launchers on the Revenants because the tooltip said so when i spent my time just filling their jetpacks with rockets & watching them spin out of control like a Looney Tunes cartoon
There's one thing that makes me appreciate 2016 more than Eternal, the latter has too many "the floor is lava" zones while fighting dozens of demons, I just hate that style of level design, I hate it.
Doom 3. And frankly it was a better story then it had any right to be (especially considering the movie, ugh).
Funnily enough, Eternal's DLC explicitly highlighted what I didn't like about the main game's encounter design. Part Two is better than Part One, mostly.
Part Two's final boss, the climax of the Doom '16 / Eternal arc, is maybe one of the least satisfying boss fights I've played in a first person shooter though, and painfully indicative of the absolute worst qualities of Eternal's design loop; reduction of game systems and emphasis on rock/scissors/papers bullshit.
Part Two's final boss, the climax of the Doom '16 / Eternal arc, is maybe one of the least satisfying boss fights I've played in a first person shooter though, and painfully indicative of the absolute worst qualities of Eternal's design loop; reduction of game systems and emphasis on rock/scissors/papers bullshit.
Doom story was at its best when it was cosmic horror based and didnt have much if any Lore but relied on your imagination. The second they created a codex they lost the plot.
Cacodemon is the only example of something with a counter quite that hard until you get to the DLC, really. In some ways it's also representative of the way the game trains you - they explicitly tell you about that super easy way to kill them, but they don't teach you about how you can get to very high DPS with various weapon combos that just melt things so fast you often don't even worry about weaknesses. Many players won't discover quick switching organically, nor will they necessarily try a lot of high tier weapon mods and combos on enemies. For instance I got through the base campaign on UV without touching rocket lockon once - big mistake, turns out that's a phenomenally good mod for wrecking powerful demons. Really saved my bacon a lot in the DLC.
Doom 3 is the worst game in the series though. Although to be fair it had nothing to do with the story but design decisions instead. The focus on horror and slow pace was not the right direction to go in.
2016 had cutscenes that lock you into a room to hear exposition and those completely killed the pace. Past the opening two levels Eternal barely has any cutscenes that it forces you to sit through.
2016 was paced poorly in that it was a one trick pony and ran out of steam long before the credits rolled. The monotony of the combat sets in early.
Eternal never has this problem, despite being a much longer game. The last level was PEAK DOOM.
Really? The Doom reboot games are probably the least serious about what is happening it has ever been. Doom 3 took itself seriously.
2016 is a boring generic FPS. fuck off with the story like it matters enough to take it over Eternal's superior gameplay
You are focusing on the word serious when I said they "took a stupid story seriously," the developers celebrated the stupidity and goofiness of Doom 2016 but did not contradict itself for laughs or dumb moments
The Saints Row games (3 and 4) also did this. The game is goofy and silly, but the narrative is treated with respect winch leads to good moments. The Scott Pilgrim movie is kind of the same. A lot of Edger Wright's movies have this tone. It is difficult to pull of as you can easily go into full spoof/parody which is something completely different.
For me Doom Eternal lost this tone for whatever reason, and it felt like a worse game for me. I cared about what was happening in Doom 2016 (even though it was silly), but I had zero interest in the story of Eternal.
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Fine, that makes more sense. I for one enjoyed both games' story, even if they go sorta overboard in Eternal.
I disagree. The focus on horror and atmosphere were quite on par with the original three episodes, and incidentally very much like Doom 64. It just needed some slight tweaks to the movement and enemy encounters rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water with Doom Eternal being a bit too over the top with cooldowns and resource deprivation.
problem is for me 2016 never got this way because after I had played it a bunch of times, the idea of booting it up to get my fill never sounded appealing because I knew it'd just be the same completely straightforward, mindless shit.
Doom Eternal and Wolfenstein II occupy the same space in my head, with the tag "sequels that took the wrong lessons out of the prequels".
It's a shame, they're good obviously, but they could have been great.
It's a shame, they're good obviously, but they could have been great.
🤣
Darn tootin right it is.
I honestly struggled with Eternal at first, didnt click with me at all and I genuinely thought it was worse than 2016. Kept playing and started unlocking extra weapon and suit mods, it all came together. Once you get the suit dash and air control you can turn into a whirlwind of pain and its the best FPS I have played for decades, I have no idea how they can top it. Although I do love games that ask something of the player :)
Ultimately feel like they're both just kind of okay. I prefer 2016 for sure, but yeah, I never finished it. It's simple and fun and mostly satisfying, but the simplicity kills it in the long run. Eternal is at the other extreme--there's just too much shit in it. It's... not fun.
Every time I think about 2016 and Eternal, I get kind of bummed lol. Because I feel like there's a perfect shooter for me somewhere between the two games. Rage 2 got close when it came to pure combat mechanics and gameplay, but unfortunately the broader structure of it absolutely killed that game for me. Fuck, how I wish it was structured like the Doom games.
Every time I think about 2016 and Eternal, I get kind of bummed lol. Because I feel like there's a perfect shooter for me somewhere between the two games. Rage 2 got close when it came to pure combat mechanics and gameplay, but unfortunately the broader structure of it absolutely killed that game for me. Fuck, how I wish it was structured like the Doom games.
Pretty much lol, 2016 was just more fun to play, no worries just good fps action
In Doom 2016, all of the environments in the game felt 'authentic', and like places which might actually exist in the universe of the game to serve whatever function they were built for. A foundry, research labs, whatever... it all helps build a sense of place, which in turn gives the player some degree of immersion.
Eternal has none of that.
Every environment in Eternal feels like the set of a Crystal Maze type game show, and none of the building or facilities seem to have any logical 'in universe' function beyond providing 'thrills and spills' for DoomSlayer. I imagined if you peeked around the corner of a corridor wall, you'd see the wooden struts holding it up.
I mean, you could argue that none of that matters, and that Eternal is all about the enjoyment of the game loop and nothing else, but I think you could still have had all that without feeling like the DoomSlayer was just a contestant on Takeshi's Castle.
I hate the way some of you discuss games, my god lol.
Both games are good imo, but I can understand why someone could dislike one and love the other as they do feel significantly different to play when you enage with all mechanics.
Both games are good imo, but I can understand why someone could dislike one and love the other as they do feel significantly different to play when you enage with all mechanics.
No it's not. There is plenty of small bursts of platforming scattered throughout the game, they don't just mean the extended segments.
I feel the way they handled having different environments enhanced the experience for me. Had a wide variety of levels and worlds to explore that make you wonder about what they were (which you could find in codecs) and how they tied to the story. As opposed to traditional Doom game where you are mostly exploring similar areas (phobos, mars, earth, hell). Was an interesting way to try and expand the Universe and led to more variety in the end.
I would have loved this variety in DMC5 for example where they went for a more logical progression, so a bunch of levels are in a greyish black tree resulting in a samey experience (or broken up greyish city). Each level in Doom Eternal looks great in comparison.
Not only do most people think Doom Eternal is better, even Hugo Martin, creative Director at Id, knows it's better.
A more engaging and frenetic experience, according to Martin the completion percentage of Doom 2016 was low, and people would tell him the game was boring and that whenever you have people saying that, you know you did something wrong.
If Doom 2016 is more your preference, that's great, it's there for infinite replays, but Doom Eternal it's not only one of the best FPS games, it's a great Doom game.
A more engaging and frenetic experience, according to Martin the completion percentage of Doom 2016 was low, and people would tell him the game was boring and that whenever you have people saying that, you know you did something wrong.
If Doom 2016 is more your preference, that's great, it's there for infinite replays, but Doom Eternal it's not only one of the best FPS games, it's a great Doom game.
These are the main reasons I didn't like Eternal, along with the ridiculous over-serious plot about demon priests and angel warriors. The narrative of Doom 16 was just enough and was pitch-perfect and I really don't think many people played that game and wished for more cutscenes explaining in depth about Doomguy and his conflict.
I remember finishing Doom 2016 and being like « yeah that was fun » and moved on, never looked back.
Then Doom Eternal released and it's like they finally made it strategic. My biggest problem in 2016 imo is that there is no reason to play with anything other than the super shotty. Eternal changed that by forcing you to learn and use all the abilities and weapons the game offers and that suddenly clicked with me.
I'll say that I enjoyed the atmosphere of 2016 a bit more, Eternal at times feels too arcady but in the end I'm playing Doom for the gameplay and Eternal is such an insane and fun FPS that going back to any other fps I'm confronted with how bland most of them are.
Also the Marauder is the pinnacle of Doom design, never had so much fun fighting an enemy, it's such a fun and strategic fight.
Then Doom Eternal released and it's like they finally made it strategic. My biggest problem in 2016 imo is that there is no reason to play with anything other than the super shotty. Eternal changed that by forcing you to learn and use all the abilities and weapons the game offers and that suddenly clicked with me.
I'll say that I enjoyed the atmosphere of 2016 a bit more, Eternal at times feels too arcady but in the end I'm playing Doom for the gameplay and Eternal is such an insane and fun FPS that going back to any other fps I'm confronted with how bland most of them are.
Also the Marauder is the pinnacle of Doom design, never had so much fun fighting an enemy, it's such a fun and strategic fight.
Doom Eternal is pretty much perfect. The biggest problem I have with it is that it doesn't continue right from the ending of 2016.
But the gameplay, exploration and even music are better than 2016 which I already figured can't be topped so, whatever.
People really keep overrating the story in 2016. For every time doomguy smacks a monitor or argent tank "cause he doesn't care" there's a 4 minute unskippable bit where you patiently have to listen to olivia or samuel yap without end. Everything in Eternal is skippable.
Don't even get me started on the "you have to play a specific way" shit.
But the gameplay, exploration and even music are better than 2016 which I already figured can't be topped so, whatever.
People really keep overrating the story in 2016. For every time doomguy smacks a monitor or argent tank "cause he doesn't care" there's a 4 minute unskippable bit where you patiently have to listen to olivia or samuel yap without end. Everything in Eternal is skippable.
Don't even get me started on the "you have to play a specific way" shit.
Hard disagree with this.
They introduced a game loop which effectively infinite ammo and stuck a fucking grappling hook on the super shotty, making it 100× more fun to use than any of the other weapons in the game. I used nothing but the super shotty in Eternal once I had it and felt nothing but annoyance on the odd occasion the game forced me to use something like the plasma rifle to break down a shield.
Disagree with this too.
The Marauder is that person who turns up to a house party completely wasted, takes a shit in someone's tub of protein powder, burns someone's coat in the microwave and breaks a table. So the record scratches to a halt which you deal with them and find a cab or designated driver to take them home so the party may continue.
It's not a hard fight, or a particularly interesting one. And I never felt like I was drawing on my well of accumulated skills to beat him. It's just a regimented wait, counter, rinse and repeat.