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Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,618
Its also a mmo... a sp FF without a fully playable party just fucking sucks

I mean launch FF15 was basically that as well. I didn't think it was inferior as a result of that. Personally, I just need a loveable cast, I don't need to actually play as them. I'd expect something similar to that for FF16.

It was definitely among the least of its problems at least.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,533
I honestly don't get why a good amount of people think there won't be a party in XVI. The first trailer was clearly just showing a setup for the story and its main character(s) Clive (with Jill and Joshua), but we're still missing basically everything. Hopefully the next trailer clears that up for everyone.
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,572
I honestly don't get why a good amount of people think there won't be a party in XVI. The first trailer was clearly just showing a setup for the story and its main character(s) Clive (with Jill and Joshua), but we're still missing basically everything. Hopefully the next trailer clears that up for everyone.
Yeaj...I mean, the first shot of the trailer showed 4 people on a campfire.
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,920
I honestly don't get why a good amount of people think there won't be a party in XVI. The first trailer was clearly just showing a setup for the story and its main character(s) Clive (with Jill and Joshua), but we're still missing basically everything. Hopefully the next trailer clears that up for everyone.

Well, the game has a very complex action system, and the lead combat designer has a precedent on a character action game, so it is natural to assume that they might focus on that type of gameplay.
Main inspirations for the game also have been The Witcher 3 and especially God of War 2018 (I remember the first from some Tim Rogers video, and the second from some old Yoshi P interviews although it might not have been directly related to XVI), which feature one playable character but always with other characters tagging along. Plus, as other have said, there has been a similar approach in FFXIV.
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,902
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Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,285
Exactly. And even Tabata himself said the all-male party in XV wasn't natural (and I think he got in trouble for it and had to walk back on the comment). I think it says a lot that Luminous' new game after XV has a female lead (and a black one at that) and all of the characters we've seen so far have been women as well.
yeah, dude even talked about learning about the importance of diversity while making FFXV and that's why his next game is a Paralympics RPG
 

Deleted member 511

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,676
Well, the game has a very complex action system, and the lead combat designer has a precedent on a character action game, so it is natural to assume that they might focus on that type of gameplay.
Main inspirations for the game also have been The Witcher 3 and especially God of War 2018 (I remember the first from some Tim Rogers video, and the second from some old Yoshi P interviews although it might not have been directly related to XVI), which feature one playable character but always with other characters tagging along. Plus, as other have said, there has been a similar approach in FFXIV.
Maybe its just me but nothing about the gameplay shown seemed that overly complex for there not to be party members. We only saw limited footage so I feel like we can't really say how deep it is or not imo and at the end of the day, its still a FF game. I don't think we're going to get anything complex like DMC/Bayonetta-levels of gameplay. I honestly see Clive just being a sword wielder who can use some - but not all - of the eikon powers. I guess we'll see later today...or just keep waiting and speculating.

I also think you can also be inspired be inspired by something while not following it to a T. I love TW3 but if I could've play as Yen I would've but it wasn't that kind of game. It would be more fun if XVI took inspiration from TW3 while doing the things it didn't such as having a cast of different characters you can play. That's more of a different take / less boring but maybe that's just me.

Edit: I would argue that VIIR's combat system is complex / has a lot of depth even if its not DMC/Bayonetta like gameplay and it having playable party members with different styles of gameplay is a part of that.

yeah, dude even talked about learning about the importance of diversity while making FFXV and that's why his next game is a Paralympics RPG
Yep. A lot of people are always too busying crapping on Tabata to remember stuff like this. Dude was cool even if he had his flaws as a creator.
 
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Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,920
I do not accept any Tensai slander here.

Maybe its just me but nothing about the gameplay shown seemed that overly complex for there not to be party members. We only saw limited footage so I feel like we can't really say how deep it is or not imo and at the end of the day, its still a FF game. I don't think we're going to get anything complex like DMC/Bayonetta-levels of gameplay. I honestly see Clive just being a sword wielder who can use some - but not all - of the eikon powers. I guess we'll see later today...or just keep waiting and speculating.

I also think you can also be inspired be inspired by something while not following it to a T. I love TW3 but if I could've play as Yen I would've but it wasn't that kind of game. It would be more fun if XVI took inspiration from TW3 while doing the things it didn't such as having a cast of different characters you can play. That's more of a different take / less boring but maybe that's just me.

Edit: I would argue that VIIR's combat system is complex / has a lot of depth even if its not DMC/Bayonetta like gameplay and it having playable party members with different styles of gameplay is a part of that.

Sure, nothing to disagree on my end.
I also don't think we are about to get a character action game, but at the same time Clive's actions seems pretty complex between ground/aerial combat, various "Eikon" configurations, etc. I watch it, and I see more similarities with let's say Kingdom Hearts, which is another game with 1 playable character. I think it's difficult to imagine other playable characters with the same amount of care being put into them from a production standpoint (that's my professional but written on the toilet levels of depth take), and we know YoshiP is someone laser focused on production. All of this, plus the type of games they are taking inspiration from, are to me reasonable points from which starting to assume there is only 1 playable character.
Then again, I agree with your points and nothing of this is any definite indication that the game is going to have one type of gameplay or the other, it's only the (or one of the most) logical assumptions. It could absolutely end up the way you said.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,561
I mean launch FF15 was basically that as well. I didn't think it was inferior as a result of that. Personally, I just need a loveable cast, I don't need to actually play as them. I'd expect something similar to that for FF16.

It was definitely among the least of its problems at least.
Was one of my biggest issues with 15. The bros never felt as if they were anything more than extras for the Noctis show which is the opposite of what I want in a FF game. And 2 mainline FF games in a row with only the mc playable and FF16 possibly being entirely solo with some temporary party members + CHAOOOS with god damn Jack on top would be really disappointing.

Well, the game has a very complex action system, and the lead combat designer has a precedent on a character action game, so it is natural to assume that they might focus on that type of gameplay.
Main inspirations for the game also have been The Witcher 3 and especially God of War 2018 (I remember the first from some Tim Rogers video, and the second from some old Yoshi P interviews although it might not have been directly related to XVI), which feature one playable character but always with other characters tagging along. Plus, as other have said, there has been a similar approach in FFXIV.

I mean dmc5 has 3 completely unique playable characters. Tales games have been doing action jrpg combat since forever as well. Surely at least a 3/4 man party of playable characters should not be too much to expect
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,618
Was one of my biggest issues with 15. The bros never felt as if they were anything more than extras for the Noctis show which is the opposite of what I want in a FF game. And 2 mainline FF games in a row with only the mc playable and FF16 possibly being entirely solo with some temporary party members + CHAOOOS with god damn Jack on top would be really disappointing.


Ehhh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I felt the bros were easily as part of the ongoing adventure as any of the previous casts.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,395
There are two things I think party members bring:
  1. Narrative richness.
  2. Gameplay variety.
While it'd still be a huge bummer, I could live without the second. But I really, really need the first one. There are hundreds of solo games with the very occasional (like a mission or so) partner. I need companions that go along you for most of the game, with unique personalities, designs, backgrounds, arcs and that, also, do their own stuff in combat and you can manage in some ways even if they're not playable.

Especially with a game like this that seems to put a fair amount of weight in its setting. Give me some diversity and variety in the people of my troupe. At the end of the day, FF games, for me, are about the stories, the characters and the worlds. The adventure, essentially. Gameplay is important, but I wouldn't be so in love with, say, FF IX, if it were just for its combat system.

Whether those guys have a space in the HUD and can be given orders or not, we don't know, but we at least we know that we can fight alongside random ass NPCs going by the trailer.
I can see the future

"No party members, FF is dead"
"DMC combat, FF is dead"
Also: "game looks like shit" when the graphics are inevitably just a more polished version of what we got last year instead o the complete overhaul some hope for/expect.
 

Deleted member 511

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,676
Whatever happens today, can we talk about how banger that 'The legacy of the crystals' line still is? Damn.

Yeah i'm rewatching the trailer again. ;v;
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,920
Whatever happens today, can we talk about how banger that 'The legacy of the crystals' line still is? Damn.

Yeah i'm rewatching the trailer again. ;v;

I think I love every line from the trailer, I have found myself mimicking them out loud at home, that is when you know a game is really hitting on you.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,395
We had to wait way more for FF VII Remake, but at least I never felt like we were this close to seeing it again as with FF XVI now, which is making the wait unbearable lmao.

I guess that, at least, we'll only have to wait a bit over a month to see something if it's not today... (unless they change their mind, which I'd be surprised by).
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,287
Midgar, With Love
I think I love every line from the trailer, I have found myself mimicking them out loud at home, that is when you know a game is really hitting on you.

It's amazing to me how diverse the FF fandom's tastes can be. It makes sense - FF itself is tonally diverse - but still. I have a friend who was recently introduced to the franchise through FFVII Remake; he loves the game dearly and cannot wait for more. Conversely, I showed him the FFXVI trailer and he felt absolutely nothing.

As for myself, I revel in both VII Remake and the XVI trailer. I have it pretty easy in life.
 

ergoakari

Member
Oct 28, 2017
428
Canada
I, like many folks am a bit concerned about the battle mechanics but -- if there's anything at all that I trust YoshiP and his team on -- after playing 500+ hours of FFXIV, it's to get Final Fantasy right. I am 100% convinced it'll be the most final fantasy - final fantasy, since at least 9.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,618
no party members would be pretty terrible if i'm honest.

especially after FFXV

Fucking Tales doesn't do this shit
 

TheRealMoB

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 1, 2020
362
Dont see at all how a 3 minute FF16 trailer would take away from Endwalker. I really dont get that opinion.
 

Zaber

Alt account
Banned
Sep 11, 2019
906
I just want to say "I'm sorry" to all of the people who think this will show up on the SoP.
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,920
It's amazing to me how diverse the FF fandom's tastes can be. It makes sense - FF itself is tonally diverse - but still. I have a friend who was recently introduced to the franchise through FFVII Remake; he loves the game dearly and cannot wait for more. Conversely, I showed him the FFXVI trailer and he felt absolutely nothing.

As for myself, I revel in both VII Remake and the XVI trailer. I have it pretty easy in life.

Same.
I think even the FFs I like the least, I still love them above the vast majority of videogames.
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,694
Dont see at all how a 3 minute FF16 trailer would take away from Endwalker. I really dont get that opinion.

I've never understood the reasoning. SE always has a lot of irons in the fire. They showed that big Forspoken event in September, but then GotG just came out, Endwalker next month, Dungeon Encounters a few weeks ago. FFIV PR a few weeks before that. We still have FFV PR and FFVI PR coming at some point soon too.

Besides, what SE wants for FFXVI doesn't just ride on SE's wants and needs. It is a Playstation exclusive, and Sony isn't paying that sweet sweet exclusivity bonus to have SE tell them to wait two more months.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,297
Final Fantasy like other long running series in general, such as Resident Evil is so fascinating to me. There is literally at this stage in its long life cycle no way to appease all the fans of the series. It is pretty much impossible. I'd like party members but if the game is designed around and is good because it works as a single character narrative or the gameplay is strong I really don't care like how I didn't care about RE's shift to first-person as long as it was good. I get all the different points of view but as developers for a long running franchise they have such a tight balancing act.
 

ergoakari

Member
Oct 28, 2017
428
Canada
I've never understood the reasoning. SE always has a lot of irons in the fire. They showed that big Forspoken event in September, but then GotG just came out, Endwalker next month, Dungeon Encounters a few weeks ago. FFIV PR a few weeks before that. We still have FFV PR and FFVI PR coming at some point soon too.

Besides, what SE wants for FFXVI doesn't just ride on SE's wants and needs. It is a Playstation exclusive, and Sony isn't paying that sweet sweet exclusivity bonus to have SE tell them to wait two more months.

I agree 100%, but there's also a lot of overlap in hype. The return to form for the brand in XIV has made a lot of people more excited about XVI than they would have been otherwise.. so it might make sense to overlap a bit. That being said, I think there's a lot of pressure on CB3 right now. Shadowbringers easily stands up there with the greatest final fantasy games, and having to output two games at once might mean that while yes--they CAN easily show a trailer for both, it might make sense to allow the team to focus. Obviously programmers are not likely working on both games, but creatives might be, at least at the director level.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
All of this talk about party members are self-inflicted fan rules no one in the development team even gives a shit about. FFXVI won't be any less a better or worse game if it doesn't have them.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
I agree 100%, but there's also a lot of overlap in hype. The return to form for the brand in XIV has made a lot of people more excited about XVI than they would have been otherwise.. so it might make sense to overlap a bit. That being said, I think there's a lot of pressure on CB3 right now. Shadowbringers easily stands up there with the greatest final fantasy games, and having to output two games at once might mean that while yes--they CAN easily show a trailer for both, it might make sense to allow the team to focus. Obviously programmers are not likely working on both games, but creatives might be, at least at the director level.

Didn't they release ShB while already working on FF16 the entire time?
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,618
I agree 100%, but there's also a lot of overlap in hype. The return to form for the brand in XIV has made a lot of people more excited about XVI than they would have been otherwise.. so it might make sense to overlap a bit. That being said, I think there's a lot of pressure on CB3 right now. Shadowbringers easily stands up there with the greatest final fantasy games, and having to output two games at once might mean that while yes--they CAN easily show a trailer for both, it might make sense to allow the team to focus. Obviously programmers are not likely working on both games, but creatives might be, at least at the director level.
All the creatives moved onto FFXVI after Heavensward shipped

FFXIV and FFXVI have completely different teams now
 

Rpgmonkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,348
All of this talk about party members are self-inflicted fan rules no one in the development team even gives a shit about. FFXVI won't be any less a better or worse game if it doesn't have them.

Yeah I mean obviously party members can be cool but I never really saw it as a "required" thing and it's not like Hiroshi Takai has a long history of working on or directing RPGs that function in a "traditional JRPG" sort of way. I'd almost be more surprised if the game does have a consistent, controllable set of party members.
 

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
I also don't think the team is feeling obliguied to include a party in the game or that the game's quality will be worse thanks to the lack of it. But you can be sure that there will be tons of crying and rage on the internet if no party gets confirmed.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
It's not really about having a party that's playable, but about a strong cast of characters. Plenty of people think the Scions are the best "party" in the series.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,830
I also don't think the team is feeling obliguied to include a party in the game or that the game's quality will be worse thanks to the lack of it. But you can be sure that there will be tons of crying and rage on the internet if no party gets confirmed.

The game will definitely be worse if we just have Clive alone the entire time. Dialogue will be worse, gameplay will be worse, storytelling will be worse. A full-length JRPG doesn't work when the protagonist has nobody to bounce off of. There need to be people along for the journey.
 

John Omaha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,867
I've never understood the reasoning. SE always has a lot of irons in the fire. They showed that big Forspoken event in September, but then GotG just came out, Endwalker next month, Dungeon Encounters a few weeks ago. FFIV PR a few weeks before that. We still have FFV PR and FFVI PR coming at some point soon too.
It's nonsense, especially when the team was originally planning a TGS showcase.
 

demu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,719
Germany
Feels good to be #TeamReal, guys and gals.

Oh, i just noticed it's my 4 year anniversary on this site. The FF16 trailer will be a nice way to celebrate.
 

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,188
I mean, why would Twitter know? Companies don't have to send tweets in advance to the company or anything the way they do with retail stores.
 
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