That's like the reason to play Warrior in expert especially, dont have to care what kind of healer you get, you are the healer
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Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers |OT| First World Problems
- Thread starter Dark Knight
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I see people are talking about healers.
Did Scholar get un-fucked yet? Wanting to know if I should bother re-installing yet.
Did Scholar get un-fucked yet? Wanting to know if I should bother re-installing yet.
Not unless by "unfucked" you mean "got Energy Drain back", because it's basically the same as in 5.0 other than that
Haven't actually tried Ex roulette yet, but I assume nascent glint just trivializes it. What a cool move but damn they unlock it so late.
scholar is super strong right now and probably the best all around healer.
Me too. I think I've only played as SCH 3 times since 5.0, despite playing it fairly regularly in 4.X. I've been thinking about levelling WHM but I'm afraid I'll find it just as boring as SCH
The problem with 5.X SCH isn't and has never been that it's weak. Even when it didn't have Energy Drain, it wasn't weak. The problem is that 5.X SCH is as boring as hell
Fuck the meta. I don't give a shit if it has really big numbers if making those big numbers is boring.
The complex duality and decision making of pre 5.0 scholar was exciting and fun.
Running around pressing 1 waiting on the tank to run out of defensive actions is boring.
SCH isnt the big number heals job, it's the tool box job and in expert and above you will definitely be using all your tools.
Cool.
Unfortunately for me, there is a huge amount of content that isnt "expert and above".
And for the vast majority of content that there is to play, Scholar is "press 1, and occasionally 2, while fairy heals everything".
And I'm not really in here to try and explain why the game went from super fun dynamic gameplay to press 1 snooze fest, I was just here to see if SE un-assed it.
yes your damage abilities consist of three buttons but you are being incredibly reductive. You have at least 14 healing spells that you will use on nearly every pull (or alternating pulls depending on cooldowns) and this is in normal mode 80 dungeons. Also the Eos heals are very poor at max level. They are healing for like 4K when tanks have 130k health.
Pre 5.0 Scholar was a hodgepodge of a Summoner and a healer due to its shared class nature.
So you had your healing and protection skills, and then *also* a lot of DoT attacks.
This meant that at the start of most engagements, for the first 30 seconds or so when tanks had all their mitigation still working, you could start throwing out DoTs on enemies, and then once tank ran out of damage mitigation you start healing. As the fight progressed, you'd weave in and out of healing and re-applying DoTs, forcing you to pay attention to not only party health, but enemy health and DoT as well.
The *really cool part* is that Scholar had Aetherflow skills both on Damage side AND healing side, so there was decision making involved as well. Do I have enough healing right now, and have the spare Aetherflow to throw out some extra damage? Or are we in trouble and I need to keep it ready for the big heals?
It was this constant weaving in and out of Healer and crappy but still engaging DPS role that made ff14 fun. I hate pure DPS. I hate pure Healing. I hate tanking. *I really fucking loved Scholar*.
Oh and the best part? The DPS was completely optional and not even really required at all so if you just wanted to suck and do only healing THAT WAS ENTIRELY AN OPTION THAT DIDNT REQUIRE HITTING SCHOLAR WITH THE SNOOZE BAT.
The amazing part is all of this can be true, and then also having engaging DoT based dps rotations and decision making as well, at the same time.
The more I've thought about it ever since the run-up to Shadowbringers launch I've just felt like SE straight up doesn't find healers sexy in a marketable sense - people wanna play the cool Gunblade, your average player wants to play as a DPS and just hit buttons to watch cool shit happen, so Tanks and DPS get all this attention that healers straight up never get despite an entire expansion in Stormblood of Yoshi straight up saying the exact same shit he did when Shadowbringers was coming out as to why they couldn't do another healer yet, because it was too hard and they don't have a clue what to do with them, basically. Healers have a boring playstyle for the most part but the larger problem is that they just don't have a vision for what they want that role to be like and they don't care enough to put real hard dev time on re-working it like they do with the other roles which are just so much more marketable to do.
That, and there's the problem of the almost impossible fine-tuning to overall difficulty of the game. They want healers to heal more, but don't want to make the game harder to force players to heal more because, well, a ton of people playing this game are bad at it and wouldn't enjoy that either, so they just went down a checklist with Shadowbringers bosses of "well every single one of them needs a big AoE thing, maybe some more DoTs, cut down the timers on the regen abilities so we force players to cast them more often," etc, which didn't really accomplish anything except give healers busywork to sort of fake the fact that there's no real meat there.
The reason that a lot of people who play White Mage never really noticed anything about this was that White Mage is actually the only healer with at least a semi-formed interesting gameplay loop that combines both healing and damage, and feels kind of smooth to play, as opposed to Scholar and Astrologian which are just the clunk kings. That, and they lost almost nothing as opposed to Scholar and Astrologian which had so much taken away from them. The way the lilies work is actually kind of great, you use healing abilities and for that you get real meaningful damage. Astrologian meanwhile received a Heavensward-Bard-like gutting of anything that made it interesting and Scholar is just a mess with abilities that just conflict with each other - though it's an incredibly good healer, mind.
Like, the bottom line is that two expansions in a row of no healers kind of just reveals either how little they care about the role because it doesn't play well in advertising or just they genuinely don't know what to do with them - and it's probably just a mix of both. It's kind of hilarious to me that they did exactly the same shit with Scholar twice in a row with Stormblood and Shadowbringers - cut out the way it plays without any good sense of how it would feel to play it, and then caved after the expansion and gave an ability or two back and said "yeah I guess this shit is hard we'll get back to this in a year and ahalf because we apparently have more important things to focus on than one of the three main roles in the game." Better to rebalance Blue Mage like twice I guess.
I think ultimately what made it so painful for healer mains this time around is that Yoshi finally caved to the tanks that just wanted to be blue DPS. After years of fighting tanks who did everything they could to make the tanking aspect of the job secondary, and to finally get more people playing the role, he just threw his arms up in the air and said "okay fine, TP is gone now, aggro is practically automatic, there's no stance dancing anymore, here, just do whatever you want." But with healers we still can't get some sort of basic DPS loop that is fun at all because that's not whatever their screwed up "vision" is that no one can figure out anyway.
That, and there's the problem of the almost impossible fine-tuning to overall difficulty of the game. They want healers to heal more, but don't want to make the game harder to force players to heal more because, well, a ton of people playing this game are bad at it and wouldn't enjoy that either, so they just went down a checklist with Shadowbringers bosses of "well every single one of them needs a big AoE thing, maybe some more DoTs, cut down the timers on the regen abilities so we force players to cast them more often," etc, which didn't really accomplish anything except give healers busywork to sort of fake the fact that there's no real meat there.
The reason that a lot of people who play White Mage never really noticed anything about this was that White Mage is actually the only healer with at least a semi-formed interesting gameplay loop that combines both healing and damage, and feels kind of smooth to play, as opposed to Scholar and Astrologian which are just the clunk kings. That, and they lost almost nothing as opposed to Scholar and Astrologian which had so much taken away from them. The way the lilies work is actually kind of great, you use healing abilities and for that you get real meaningful damage. Astrologian meanwhile received a Heavensward-Bard-like gutting of anything that made it interesting and Scholar is just a mess with abilities that just conflict with each other - though it's an incredibly good healer, mind.
Like, the bottom line is that two expansions in a row of no healers kind of just reveals either how little they care about the role because it doesn't play well in advertising or just they genuinely don't know what to do with them - and it's probably just a mix of both. It's kind of hilarious to me that they did exactly the same shit with Scholar twice in a row with Stormblood and Shadowbringers - cut out the way it plays without any good sense of how it would feel to play it, and then caved after the expansion and gave an ability or two back and said "yeah I guess this shit is hard we'll get back to this in a year and ahalf because we apparently have more important things to focus on than one of the three main roles in the game." Better to rebalance Blue Mage like twice I guess.
I think ultimately what made it so painful for healer mains this time around is that Yoshi finally caved to the tanks that just wanted to be blue DPS. After years of fighting tanks who did everything they could to make the tanking aspect of the job secondary, and to finally get more people playing the role, he just threw his arms up in the air and said "okay fine, TP is gone now, aggro is practically automatic, there's no stance dancing anymore, here, just do whatever you want." But with healers we still can't get some sort of basic DPS loop that is fun at all because that's not whatever their screwed up "vision" is that no one can figure out anyway.
They brought energy drain back so you can still do this, what you describe above is basically the same now as it was in pre-5.0. As for the lack of dots/shadow flare yeah it sucks but all the healers are in the same boat now. Blame YoshiP and his desire to embrace the "pure healing role." At least SCH with energy drain you do get to decide if you want to use your aetherflow stacks/resource on healing or dps.
Energy Drain was one of like 3 or 4 Aetherflow DPS skills, and arguably the least interesting to use.
Scholar only had 1 Aetherflow dps skill.
Edit: Oops forgot about Bane. Do you just want Bane back?
I thought Shadow Flare was an AF skill, but I could be wrong. But I did vastly prefer Bane to Energy Drain at the beginning of fights.
And no, I want the majority of the kit back. I can see 'consolidating' some skills like combining Bane and Shadowflare into an AoE Dot spreader, stuff like that, but it just lost *so much*. It definitely could have used some gentle streamlining. It just feels like half of a class now, because until you get into late game there just really is no need for 100% healing uptime, and around the 60's it's more like 30% because the fairy takes care of half of it.
Of course, they COULD have used Dancer to make a Healing w/DPS hybrid but nah, that would be too interesting.
btw, they have a promotion going now for 5 free days of game time for people with accounts that have been inactive for more than 30 days.
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The extra stupid thing is I still have my sub active for some reason, just in case they get their heads out of their ass.
Guess I should go cancel it.
Might as well because they are not going to make the complete overhaul you are looking for until 6.0 if at all so you have like a year and a half.
I was gonna say the only other skill that used stacks was Bane, which I honestly forgot about. I don't run dungeons that often so I barely used it. Shadow Flare didn't use stacks, it was just on a 30s cooldown I believe. But they did take it away, along with one of our other dots, which sucks.
ooooooooh Red Mage leaves a great first impression. Fantastic looking spells and I love the gameplay of weaving in both types of spells, and the cast -> insta cast -> cast -> insta cast flow.
Question: do I want to raise the black/white bars to max before lunging in for the melee combo?
Question: do I want to raise the black/white bars to max before lunging in for the melee combo?
You need them to be both at 80 or above to execute the entire enhanced melee combo.
as I typed it I did the math and saw it added to 8 yeah, cool cool. And I take it that even tho the black and white spells do less damage than the one that counts for both, they raise the bar faster so I assume getting to 80 faster is more dps overall than the mixed spell which takes longer to raise the bar, as the bulk of your dps comes from the big melee combo? I'm just assuming from my 5min with the class at first glance lol
Speaking as SMN dps main I'm not sure why'd they'd take a skill like bane away on SCH, should be relatively little cognitive overhead when both classes share such a simple move. Assuming that the whole point of the shared levelling thing is people will jump from one to the other, as I did. I'd like to see dot management come back. Bored of art of war.
Got pretty close to clearing Hades Ex tonight, but internet lag reared its ugly head during p3 efforts and made all my SMN's festers and procs disappear like a fart in wind.
I miss having awesome internet. I hate that SMN is the class I like most while not having awesome internet
Got pretty close to clearing Hades Ex tonight, but internet lag reared its ugly head during p3 efforts and made all my SMN's festers and procs disappear like a fart in wind.
I miss having awesome internet. I hate that SMN is the class I like most while not having awesome internet
The potencies aren't the most important things. It's cast times.
Single target: Veraero and Verthunder take 4.91s to cast. You should not be hardcasting these except in some openers. You hardcast Jolt and then dualcast one of the two. Go back and forth between the two to build up the meters in tandem. You should hard cast Verstone/Verfire and dualcast Aero/Thun if those proc.
AoE: Impact (I think it's Scatter if you just picked up the job, it gets replaced) takes 4.91s to cast. Again, don't hard cast it. You hardcast Veraero/thun II and then dualcast Impact/Scatter. Again, alternate to build up meter in tandem.
The potencies are always higher on the spell that has the long cast time/the ones you should be dualcasting, so it's swapped between single target and AoE since single target and AoE rotations are basically opposites of each other.
RDM is a really cool yet simple class. I encourage you to dive in further, although I'm biased as an RDM main. Being the only DPS that can actually heal itself (no, Physick doesn't count) and one of two that can raise (and the one that can raise almost instantly at any time due to dualcasts) is super useful and I find helping out the party by providing revives or heals to be very satisfying.
It was basically just because they took away one of their DoTs, so you ended up with an ability that would only be spreading a single DoT - not really worth a button at that point especially since Scholar actually has several buttons you could just easily remove already.
Removing DoTs was actually a big theme of the Shadowbringers balance pass for whatever reason. WHM lost their AoE DoT as well iirc.
wait, jolt into verthunder/veraero? I assumed it would be verthunder II into verthunder (7 black mana + 11 black mana), veraero II into veraero (7 white mana + 11 white mana), why jolt which is only 3 of each?
oh because you get more casts of the 11 mana ones I guess, and the math in the end says you get to 80 faster? no wait that doesnt make sense, its still 1 fast cast into 1 instant cast anyway, you get the same amount of casts.
You want to keep the mana levels balanced, because if one gets too high you get a penalty in generating the other color.
You're mixing single target and AoE spells there, bud.
Verthunder and Veraero are single target.
Verthunder II and Veraero II are AoE.
You should not be mixing these.
The potencies are far higher on the single target ones. The mana is always secondary to the potencies.
EDIT: Your basic rotations are (potencies in parentheses):
Single target: Jolt (180) -> Veraero or thunder (350) -> Jolt (180) -> Opposite Veraero or thunder of what you casted last time (350).
If you proc Verfire or stone, replace a Jolt with that and then use the opposite for Aero/Thun
AoE: Thun II/Aero II (120) -> Scatter (later Impact) (120 later 220) -> Opposite Thun II/Aero II (120) -> Scatter (later Impact) (120 later 220).
The single target potencies are much higher. The single target rotation spells are always higher than the AoE rotation spells, across every job in the game.
Do not use AoE spells on a single target.
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oh ffs didnt notice they were aoe my bad. Learning tooltips helps, who knew?
Very slowly working through patch 3.4 now, should be at Stormblood shortly.
As I continue my Dragoon journey upward, I have a few general questions about rotations.
1) Should I be throwing one or two oGCD skills between GCD skills? This isn't a huge issue for most of the fight, but in the beginning, I want to throw down as many of those boosts as longer cool downs as possible.
2) Is the DoT from Chaos Thrust affected by crit? Not sure which main rotation skill I should be using my auto crit on.
3) I should always be using those newer "only in Blood of the Dragon" skills after the three part combos, right? They don't seem to be crazy good damage but I figure they're there for a reason.
As I continue my Dragoon journey upward, I have a few general questions about rotations.
1) Should I be throwing one or two oGCD skills between GCD skills? This isn't a huge issue for most of the fight, but in the beginning, I want to throw down as many of those boosts as longer cool downs as possible.
2) Is the DoT from Chaos Thrust affected by crit? Not sure which main rotation skill I should be using my auto crit on.
3) I should always be using those newer "only in Blood of the Dragon" skills after the three part combos, right? They don't seem to be crazy good damage but I figure they're there for a reason.
1) Depends on what it is. Some you can squeeze two oGCDs in, some you can't. Generally, you don't want to double-weave jumps because of the long animations. The rule is you don't want to delay your GCD for any reason.
2) No. Use it on Full Thrust.
3) Geirskogul you should use on cooldown at 60. Once you get Nastrond this changes a bit (or rather, there's more to pay attention to). You want to use the other two at the end of one of your two combos, yes. The base of your rotation is Chaos Thrust combo -> Wheeling Thrust -> (at level 64+ because of a trait) Fang and Claw -> Full Thrust Combo -> Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust. So you do one three-part combo, do the finisher, do the other finisher at 64+ (read the trait you get at 64), do the other three-part combo, do the finisher, (at 64+) do the other finisher.
More here (this is a level 80 guide but the basic rotation is the same, you just add more stuff on top of it as you level): https://docs.google.com/document/d/...LKcn2z8R8d9Vvj5B0/edit#heading=h.2ztb0chrjnpc
And for general reference, highly encourage anyone interested in learning how to play a specific job optimally to check out The Balance Discord (The Balance is the FFXIV theorycrafting community): https://thebalanceffxiv.com/
They have channels with links to guides for every role/job.
You can't skip cutscenes because when new people would do it, the 7 other people in there would complete the whole dungeon while that person was still in like the 2nd cutscene.
I've kind of run out of things to do on my main now so I've been grinding away on an archer so I can unlock bard and play instruments (because why not?). I've read that palace of the dead is the best place to level a dps since queues tend to be long. Should I be just trying to solo through the whole thing or should I be running certain levels over and over? Should I even be trying to solo here at all? I was pretty discouraged when I got disconnected at level 19 and lost all the progress from the previous 20ish minutes.
It can also be Castrum Meridianum which is much faster I think. They don't let you skip the cutscenes because the whole point of the queue is to allow players who haven't played it before to actually experience the story without having to go watch all the cutscenes at the inn. It's definitely painful to rerun it, but I appreciated that when I was going through the MSQ not too long ago.
You should be running 51-60 over and over, because you get the option to start from either 1 or 51 when you reach that level, and 51-60 has the best time (including queues, big part is that queues are short since you can start there) to XP ratio.
You really only need a group if you want to keep going up past 60. PotD is very solo queue friendly. It just sounds like you've had some bad luck in groups when getting up to 51-60.
Oh, I haven't gotten that high yet, I've only run it a few times and my archer is really low level. My save only has 21-30 unlocked at the moment. When I mentioned queues I meant the regular dungeon queues. So I should just keep soloing until I unlock 60 and then rerun it starting at 51?
I'm aware you're not there yet. Yes, you should beat floors 21-30, then 31-40, then 41-50, then 51-60, and from there you can delete your PotD save and be able to start a new save at floor 51. You keep running floors 51-60, beating it, deleting that save, starting a new save at floor 51 over and over. That's what everyone else does, and it's the most efficient way to get XP from PotD.
That's...odd. The boss barely does damage. I've easily beaten it with 4 DPS without anyone being near in danger of dying.
the eyepatch girl? what can I say /shrug
it was my first time on that floor, first we lost 2 people to some aoe, and then I died, and then the tank died.
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