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Zellia

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
UK
Opens with Mog King fight which was a blast and then hours of teleporting, cutscenes, finding npcs, with sprinkling of combat in old areas.

I haven't even been to the new area yet.

Everyone lauds the storytelling in 14 but man is it a lot of text. I think part of the problem is that the pacing betrays how much time I have to devote in a given session. I suppose if I take my time, play solo, and spread it over the rest of the year I could really dive in and enjoy it more

Hopefully the action picks up once I finally get to the new areas
That's not Heavensward. That's the 2.x patch questline which is part of ARR and, yes, it's the worst questing stretch in the game.

It picks up shortly before you get to the new areas, so keep at it.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,477
That's not Heavensward. That's the 2.x patch questline which is part of ARR and, yes, it's the worst questing stretch in the game.

It picks up shortly before you get to the new areas, so keep at it.

Lmao holy shit

No wonder my buddy paid for the skip

Glad to hear that! Ill just plow through then
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,450
Finally reached the start of Patch 2.5, been a busy time getting from the end of ARR to here! Will hopefully reach the start of Heavensward tonight after work.

Picked up the Samurai class as well, have been having fun even though I don't know what I am doing. I saw someone suggest a rotation for level 50 just above here so might give that a go. My other class is Black Mage.
I believe that was me. Do note that I forgot to add reapplying the lost Sen from Higanbana (Shifu combo > Higanbana > Jinpu combo > Shifu combo > Yukikaze combo > Midare Setsugekka)

Also I'm no expert at all so take with a grain of salt!
 

Grim

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
London, UK.
I haven't played since the beginning of Heavensward tbh, so I just paid for the skip.

Start Shadowbringers made me glad I did as well, because I'm reminded a lot of it is teleport here, talk to x, investigate Y, finish at Z. Repeat maybe 2 times until something pivotal happens.

That said, the pivotal moments really make me forget everything prior and I'm happy to do it again. Just not through what could have been 3 expansions worth.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,549
Man...getting some serious Trump vibes from Vauthry. His tantrums, surrounding himself with rich people and gaudy, ugly, tacky shit, his complete and utter inability to conceive of his own failings...I don't know if it's deliberate, but the parallels are VERY obvious.
 

SliceSabre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,556
So, ShB has been out for a while, thoughts about healers? I'm not talking about the lack thereof, that was to be obviously expected, I'm more talking about the new direction healing took with 5.0.
Here's my humble opinion, with the premise that since HW I've only been a casual PUG player, no longer doing progression but just random casual stuff. I guess this puts me in a different boat from many of the rest of you here.

Personally I approve the IDEA of having healers focus more on... healing, and less on DPSing. They did that in several ways, by tweaking tanks and damage incoming foremost, then with all the other changes to healers. I think it's good.
To me DPSing as healers felt good when it was OPTIONAL, when it felt mandatory it was really bad, imho.

I sorta like WHM I guess, but I'm completely displeased with AST and SCH.
I acknowledge AST needed some tweaks with cards, multiple redraw with charges (the whole concept of charges is pretty cool in general) etc were due changes.
But they completely stripped the flavour off AST to make it into a more predictable, more easily balanceable job.
Yes now it's gonna be easier to compare AST with the other healers, but that came at a cost. While all 3 healers are more interchangeable than they've ever been, they're all way more... dull, bland, less fun to play and less unique.
This is terribly boring, imho.

And SCH is in a similar position, I hate the new path they took with pets for both SCH and SMN. I mean it's good you don't have to care for their health or positioning anymore of course, but having their abilities into your basic deck is such a bad design, for my tastes at least, really hate it. Loved the "automatic" feel you had on SCH for easy content, loved how you really had to work hard with manual mode and macros for harder stuff. It felt so rewarding!
Also the Aetherflow thing only during battle is such a major annoyance, why did they even have to bring this change? I can understand the rest (even if I don't agree/like it) but this specific aspect makes no sense to me, wonder what was their reasoning behind it.



So basically I dunno, I understand how now healing as a whole will be way more manageable and balanceable by SE and it won't create any more issues of "we want this specific combination of healers for this specific content", leaving players outside or behind, which is something I've always hated.
But honestly, in a game like FFXIV where you can simply level a new job without having to restart from zero, was it really such a big deal? I mean in WoW it sure was, absolutely, but in FFXIV? Certainly not to that extent?
If this is the result honestly I'd much rather keep the previous compromise of pros and cons, but I guess I'm the only one feeling like this.

All the complaints about healing in 5.0 that I read about are all for the lack of DPS etc, which personally doesn't really bug me at all instead.
I finished leveling WHM first and I'm completely happy with the class. Afflatus Misery is an awkward skill but I love seeing the damage results. I feel like I can just stick to healing and toss that out ever so often without it ruining my flow.

The changes to the pets makes SCH feel different in a way I'm not sure I like and I certainly hate not being able to get my aether stacks out of battle. But I've grown to like the changes on scholar. The new auto critical heal skill is a godsend along with Catalyze. The DPS take aways means nothing to be because of am an ungodly Healer who doesn't like to dps unless I feel the desire to do so.

AST lolno. They used to be my favorite class but the changes were too drastic and they stripped the class of all identity and now I refuse to use it.

Personally I like the age of "Healers should healer more and dps less." because I have always been a worshipper at that alter.

1v76g7vjp1sx.jpg


My patron Saint.
 

JamboGT

Vehicle Handling Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,446
I believe that was me. Do note that I forgot to add reapplying the lost Sen from Higanbana (Shifu combo > Higanbana > Jinpu combo > Shifu combo > Yukikaze combo > Midare Setsugekka)

Also I'm no expert at all so take with a grain of salt!
No problem, I won't blame you for anything :P
 

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
I haven't played since the beginning of Heavensward tbh, so I just paid for the skip.

Start Shadowbringers made me glad I did as well, because I'm reminded a lot of it is teleport here, talk to x, investigate Y, finish at Z. Repeat maybe 2 times until something pivotal happens.

That said, the pivotal moments really make me forget everything prior and I'm happy to do it again. Just not through what could have been 3 expansions worth.

Honestly skipping Heavensward to get to Shadowbringers is pretty nuts if you actually care about pivotal moments and story.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,269
Daily reminder that no decent healer will ever DPS less only because they made DPSing as both AST and SCH incredibly boring. It just means DPSing on those two jobs is incredibly boring. If you're ever just intentionally overhealing or standing still, well, I guess nothing will convince you otherwise. IMO there's almost no such thing as a good healer that doesn't DPS - the act of healing in this game is incredibly simple in itself, the challenge, and what makes you good at the role of healer in FFXIV, has always been managing both.

Man...getting some serious Trump vibes from Vauthry. His tantrums, surrounding himself with rich people and gaudy, ugly, tacky shit, his complete and utter inability to conceive of his own failings...I don't know if it's deliberate, but the parallels are VERY obvious.

Portrayals of the rich as being incredibly petty, obese, practically monstrous creatures goes way way back, but it's certainly easy to see a lot of parallels in what is effectively a floating city of the rich above a slum they basically harvest for themselves, in a dying world ravaged by "the flood." Enjoy our future, everyone!
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,549
Portrayals of the rich as being incredibly petty, obese, practically monstrous creatures goes way way back, but it's certainly easy to see a lot of parallels in what is effectively a floating city of the rich above a slum they basically harvest for themselves, in a dying world ravaged by "the flood." Enjoy our future, everyone!

Oh, absolutely.

It's more the content of his rants that makes me think of Trump. This gigantic monstrous baby who views any dissent or disagreement as a direct attack on himself is a very distinct parallel even if it wasn't directly intentional.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Daily reminder that no decent healer will ever DPS less only because they made DPSing as both AST and SCH incredibly boring. It just means DPSing on those two jobs is incredibly boring. If you're ever just intentionally overhealing or standing still, well, I guess nothing will convince you otherwise. IMO there's almost no such thing as a good healer that doesn't DPS - the act of healing in this game is incredibly simple in itself, the challenge, and what makes you good at the role of healer in FFXIV, has always been managing both.
As a person who has only been levelling Scholar, this is why I've pretty much stopped playing.
I actually bothered to get my summoner half up to speed though, so that's something.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,269
As a person who has only been levelling Scholar, this is why I've pretty much stopped playing.
I actually bothered to get my summoner half up to speed though, so that's something.

I actually have spent most of my time in the last few days as Summoner and it's so hyper-active that I'm reminded of everything I enjoyed about Scholar an expansion and ahalf ago and everything the job has lost. It's actually surprising how the class itself (Arcanist) has such a complete gameplay loop even at a low level - your DoTs always, from the beginning, enhance ruin potency, and even by just Sastasha you are maintaining DoTs while ruin-spamming, energy draining for aetherflow, then spending it on Fester for larger bursts. Not to mention obviously how much more complicated it is by the end. It baffles me why they didn't just allow SCH to keep the low-level Arcanist loop - it would be far better than what the job has now, not to mention it just makes more sense that it keeps its "class" aspects.

I understand why people do say SMN requires a lot of work for the DPS it has (which is true) but it's just refreshing to actually be able to, like, press more than two buttons to do damage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
I actually have spent most of my time in the last few days as Summoner and it's so hyper-active that I'm reminded of everything I enjoyed about Scholar an expansion and ahalf ago and everything the job has lost. It's actually surprising how the class itself (Arcanist) has such a complete gameplay loop even at a low level - your DoTs always, from the beginning, enhance ruin potency, and even by just Sastasha you are maintaining DoTs while ruin-spamming, energy draining for aetherflow, then spending it on Fester for larger bursts. Not to mention obviously how much more complicated it is by the end. It baffles me why they didn't just allow SCH to keep the low-level Arcanist loop - it would be far better than what the job has now, not to mention it just makes more sense that it keeps its "class" aspects.

I understand why people do say SMN requires a lot of work for the DPS it has (which is true) but it's just refreshing to actually be able to, like, press more than two buttons to do damage.
Yeah, and if I ever get the motivation to like actually keep playing then I'll probably enjoy it.

I just loved how it never felt like there was "one" optimal rotation for Scholar, since both dps side and heal side used aetherflow stacks. I'm sure there are more optimal ways of playing scholar for sure, but it never felt like I needed to know an order of attacks, but rather "here are my tools, now I must decide when to use them".
Do I use an aetherflow to spread DoTs with Bane? Or do I save it for a Lustrate? Should I use energy drain to deal some single target damage and refill some MP, or is someone dying? I loved that.
Going to Summoner will get rid of a lot of that, but at least I'll be spreading dot like a mofo
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
I'm gonna stop popping defensive CDs so Healers can answer their true calling of just healing.

You're welcome.

/joke
 

Grim

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
London, UK.
Honestly skipping Heavensward to get to Shadowbringers is pretty nuts if you actually care about pivotal moments and story.

It's not that I care, all I meant was that sometimes the slog is worth the pay off, when it's short.

I.e one expansion at a time. Going from Heavensward to Stormbinger to get to Shadowbringers in one go would have made me quit again due to the boring filler.
 

KanameYuuki

Member
Dec 23, 2017
2,649
Colombia
I need some help.

How am I supposed to use Synastry? After all these years I have no idea how am I supposed to make full or even basic use of it, I don't do savage content so I had neglected that skill, but now normal dungeons can be challenging and I need to make sure I am using all of my tools.
 

JamboGT

Vehicle Handling Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,446
Hah so you are saying going from the end of vanilla ARR onwards is a bad idea? :P
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
It baffles me why they didn't just allow SCH to keep the low-level Arcanist loop - it would be far better than what the job has now, not to mention it just makes more sense that it keeps its "class" aspects.

I understand why people do say SMN requires a lot of work for the DPS it has (which is true) but it's just refreshing to actually be able to, like, press more than two buttons to do damage.

The answer is that ACN was never intended to split into two jobs, it was a time save measure, which obviously created a lot of problems. That's why they changed scholar to be it's own thing and that's why they are eliminating ACN from SCH.
 

Deleted member 2474

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,318
I need some help.

How am I supposed to use Synastry? After all these years I have no idea how am I supposed to make full or even basic use of it, I don't do savage content so I had neglected that skill, but now normal dungeons can be challenging and I need to make sure I am using all of my tools.

The basic idea of Synastry is that it partially heals the person you cast it on every time you do any healing. So there's a few different useful ways to use it. If a DPS takes a big hit you can throw Synastry on your tank and heal the DPS so you can heal them both at the same time. Or, vice versa, you can throw Synastry on the DPS and keep healing the tank so that the DPS will get healed as well. You can also basically use Synastry as a single-target heal buff - if you heal the same person you cast Synastry on, they get both the original heal and the extra 40%.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,028
Lmao holy shit

No wonder my buddy paid for the skip

Glad to hear that! Ill just plow through then
ROFL I just finished HW and thought "wtf is he talking about? Heavensward is perfect quest pacing after what he just went through!"
Good luck with the post-ARR bullshit, it's boring but Heavensward is absolutely worth it.
 

KanameYuuki

Member
Dec 23, 2017
2,649
Colombia
The basic idea of Synastry is that it partially heals the person you cast it on every time you do any healing. So there's a few different useful ways to use it. If a DPS takes a big hit you can throw Synastry on your tank and heal the DPS so you can heal them both at the same time. Or, vice versa, you can throw Synastry on the DPS and keep healing the tank so that the DPS will get healed as well. You can also basically use Synastry as a single-target heal buff - if you heal the same person you cast Synastry on, they get both the original heal and the extra 40%.

WAT, I had no idea that would work, I assumed it was just to another person so I only used it rarely on trials, it was a largesse all along, I'm such a fool, my tanks have been dying lately at the end of massive pulls but maybe that was the small push I needed for them to survive T - T
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,549
Hah so you are saying going from the end of vanilla ARR onwards is a bad idea? :P

If there's a way to skip to the beginning of Heavensward, do that and don't look back. Don't miss the HW story quests since they're kind of integral to everything that happens in ShB. Far moreso than anything that happens in Stormblood.
 

Jaaake

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,215
Australia
Living dead is such a pain in the arse to heal now if you don't have bene available. Health pools have ballooned so much in comparison to healing potencies.

I remember the good old days when a single benefic II + synastry would top a DRK off completely. Maybe an ED for good measure. Brings a tear to my eye
 

JamboGT

Vehicle Handling Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,446
If there's a way to skip to the beginning of Heavensward, do that and don't look back. Don't miss the HW story quests since they're kind of integral to everything that happens in ShB. Far moreso than anything that happens in Stormblood.
Have spent the last week grinding out the bits inbetween, really looking forward to the Heavensward stuff I have to say. Though some of the stuff in between has been ok.
 
OP
OP
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,271
Living dead is such a pain in the arse to heal now if you don't have bene available. Health pools have ballooned so much in comparison to healing potencies.

I remember the good old days when a single benefic II + synastry would top a DRK off completely. Maybe an ED for good measure. Brings a tear to my eye
What do you think the best fix for that would be? Making heals more potent on a DRK who is currently under LD?
 

blonded

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,128
Unpopular opinion but the second half of the post 2.0 quests have good story and are worth it
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,549
Unpopular opinion but the second half of the post 2.0 quests have good story and are worth it

The whole leadup to THAT quest is both worth it and incredibly frustrating because it literally becomes hours at a time of "go here and talk to this person for three seconds to move the plot along".
 

Danim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
453
Have spent the last week grinding out the bits inbetween, really looking forward to the Heavensward stuff I have to say. Though some of the stuff in between has been ok.
I'd recommend sticking with it for what it's worth, the final lead up to Heavensward is still some of the best story content in this game.
 

JamboGT

Vehicle Handling Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,446
Unpopular opinion but the second half of the post 2.0 quests have good story and are worth it
I haven't minded the actual story, and I like how each patch has been a self contained chapter but some of the to and froing has been a lot. Though I guess if I was playing at the time i wouldn't notice at all as it would all have been spread out.
 

ebi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
326
I'm gonna stop popping defensive CDs so Healers can answer their true calling of just healing.

You're welcome.

/joke
You're kidding but the sad thing is I've had an (idiot) DRK who did wall to wall pulls without using CDs in Dohn Mheg and I still could squeeze out some damage between spikes as SCH, you're just substituting tank CDs for healer CDs and hoping DPS isn't complete garbage. :<

I still let him die when he finally tried to LD at the very end of the pull because I haven't yet found out a way to heal through that health pool while being out of juice as SCH.
 

Jaaake

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,215
Australia
What do you think the best fix for that would be? Making heals more potent on a DRK who is currently under LD?
Yeah, if this is the way healing is gonna be from now on then a minnie or conval effect with LD isn't a bad idea, IMO.

At i444 level 80 I'm healing for like ~22k each Cure 2. At i400 level 70 I was healing for ~20k. It's a bit much when tanks have like 120k health now
 

Pyros Eien

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,974
I've had way too many tanks not popping cds when I was leveling, it was annoying to say the least. Especially when they're doing big pulls, it's like, you shouldn't be doing one without the other, but even small pulls are annoying without cds, have to heal a bunch because trash actually hurts a decent bunch.

Endgame wise though, I didn't see any difference in current content compared to before in terms of healing required, it's just the same. I did SCH in the 2 current EX trials and the only difference is I have less DPS buttons to press. I also dislike that they made Ruin II still kinda meh, so you only use it if you have to double weave, and it's less of a DPS loss to clip the GCD if you only have one. Wish it was worth using for single weaves. But otherwise, the additional healing tools I got compensate for any additional required healing there might have been. The only hardcast heals I've had to do are Recitation Adlo on the tank every now and then, and Succor during downtime(or Adlo deploy if that's up and I don't need it). Rest is just DPS.
 

Jaaake

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,215
Australia
Maybe just inc damage reduction while "dead" (or does it have that tied-in already)?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure LD is just a matter of healing for the tanks entire HP amount. Hard to notice in the past because of how easy it was to deal with, haha. But they don't necessarily need to be topped at the end of it for it to count
 

komaruR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,045
http://www.twitch.tv/komarur
Sometimes i wonder why am i playing Red Mage. I feel like a bad version of a Black Mage.
when played right theyre good too but when plsyed wrong, they can end up like this smn
unknown.png

I've been concerned-ish about it since Early Access, but with more people hitting 80 on Gunbreaker I'm starting to wonder if SE didn't make a misstep with making it a tank. It has a very high skill floor with a fairly high skill ceiling, meaning that the difference between a bad GNB and a good GNB is night and day. To the point where a bad GNB is an active detriment to a group because they're doing awful DPS. If you want to do decent DPS you have to do things like hold ammo, start your ammo combo without finishing it to go into your Continuation combo and then finishing the ammo combo to immediately put you back to 2, since Continuation doesn't break the ammo combo. You're delaying buffs so they line up every 3 combos, etc. I don't think there's any other job that requires you to stop one combo to begin another, and then finish the first. The combo swapping is fundamental to doing semi-decent damage. That's not to say that I necessarily expect people to know the rotation incredibly well already, but my concern is that people will never learn it because it's a unique play style.

And thanks to GNB being a tank, they're taking up 1 of 2 slots in a raid group, making their impact on your average Extreme fight much larger than it would be if they were DPS. People are also in the ever-present mindset that holding aggro = good tanking when it's literally just turning on your tank stance and hitting any button whatsoever. WoW refugees in particular, and I don't really blame them!

I foresee a lot of frustration until people get frustrated enough to drop the job, like what happened with HW DRK, or people begin outgearing things. As it stands I'm outright avoiding any group that already has a GNB tank.
its not really the job fault but the players. there will always have players that dont read tooltip and try to learn or improve regardless what job they play.
 

Avis

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,222
I'm really liking GBN more than I thought I would and will probably main it in raids.

The combo management and dancing is fun and feels satisfying. And having tons of oGCD's to hit is fun.
 

SigArthor7

Member
Feb 11, 2018
46
Sorry if this question has been asked a million and one times but I was wondering if this was a good time for me to get started playing. I was going to download the PS4 version.
 

scy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
596
Talk of SMN low output confuses me as it's still the dominant caster for comps.

That's fair; I'm definitely looking at it from an optimization perspective. I agree that dropping the timers is going to be one of the bigger issues for people that are picking up the job. Weaving in Sonic Break by itself feels unintuitive for a lot of my friends that have picked up the job since it doesn't contribute to the "job fantasy" of big explodes swords.

I do think it has a higher skill floor than DRK and PLD, though. Granted I've met PLD tanks that believed that spamming Rage of Halone was perfectly fine.

Sonic break exists in this weird spot in my head of they planned for it when the tanks all had a DoT and then forgot that wasn't the case anymore so having the obligatory DoT was unnecessary. Honestly, I think it exists just to pad the rotation to help offset No Mercy desync and having two Burst Strike skills wasn't going to cut it.

And I don't know yet where tanks line up for like 99-100th level optimization. Paladin used to be the worst with MP tick and swing timer things, for instance, but then we're getting into such details that are hyper extremes. I wouldn't be surprised for GNB to be it but it'll depend on a lot of factors.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
when played right theyre good too but when plsyed wrong, they can end up like this smn
unknown.png

Goddamn, maybe he was just summoning his pet the whole time ?

Sorry if this question has been asked a million and one times but I was wondering if this was a good time for me to get started playing. I was going to download the PS4 version.

It's the beginning of a new expansion, now's the perfect time to start playing !
 
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