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Final Fantasy XIV Reintroduces "Gender"-locked races, Viera female only, Hrothgar male only.
- Thread starter Zero-ELEC
- Start date
Does someone need a little cheese with their whine? Your posts and name calling confirm that you are, along with other "fans" are acting entitled.
Is it ok to be disappointed? sure, i was disappointed i would not be able to race change along with my wife to viera, but am i going sit behind my keyboard, bitching and moaning about it? Nah.
Most of the people in this thread were acting civil about it, then here you come
Funny part is, it STILL could happen, we could still could get male's in 5.1 or 5.2 and we dont know it
What constructive conversation I'd there to be had
"Remember that thing we got upset you last time for. We still don't want you to do it, yeah"
.... How am I acting entitled.
I just said fuck off blaming the fanbase, for the dev doing something that was already vocalized to be not a cool thing. I'm not acting entitled, i'm calling you , specially you, for using shitty logic. I understand, i'm not " entitled " for any dev to do anything, I can however be upset , or even go so further to not give them my dollar.
And "Is it ok to be disappointed? sure, i was disappointed i would not be able to race change along with my wife to viera, but am i going sit behind my keyboard, bitching and moaning about it? Nah."
No one gives a shit you think you are too cool to complain, sit in your corner, and cape for a corperation that doesn't give a shit about you , to your own damn self if you are to cool to engage .
There's no one doing anything uncivilized, they are voicing disdain for a decision.
If you don't like that, you can literally not engage. Yet here you are voicing how civilized you are. Caping for a giant corporation, because that's what civility is, apperently.
Lol you still dont realize you're acting entitled? You are literally calling me a corporate shill, and you some how dont realize you're acting entitled? you need to take a break from the internet and reevaluate life
And as i said, voicing disappointment in gender locking is ok, its a bad choice, but my original post was directed at those who are taking it a bit too far, kinda like how you just outted yourself being in that group
... How am I acting entitled again? I never said that we were entitled to anything.
And i'm calling you a corperate goon, because you are acting like a corpeate goon. You need to take a break and reevaluate your life, if you think people reasonably complaining about a thing is some how bad for a corperate entity that you have no part in.
I didn't out myself to be anything, i called you out for being a coorperate goon. Infact in none of this conversation, I never actually indicated that was upset about the viera in the first place. I just said the decision has some sexist themes with in it.
So uh... you actually got an argument or are you gonna cry about civility or something?
I knew this was coming by since the Hrothgar leak, but watching this last night I was still flabbergasted that they made such an unforced error like this after adding male miqoute and femroe in 2.0
The double whammy of no new healer til 6.0 now...killed alot of my hype, the poor folks on the FFXIV reddit look like they are at a funeral.
The double whammy of no new healer til 6.0 now...killed alot of my hype, the poor folks on the FFXIV reddit look like they are at a funeral.
Yeah man, and 6 years ago I would've said another Shenmue game was gonna happen. Saying that you should be basing your current-day information on 6 year old interviews, before the game was even wildly popular, is dumb as hell my dude. The fact that he stuck to his guns after 6 years is bizarre as hell since they have census data to show that the bestial/"ugly" races are a waste of development resources.
You expected a version of something that never existing in the first place, and now that its confirmed it does not exist for now, you're whining about not having it. Entitlement
And if you think voicing a counter argument for a decision made by a team of developers makes you a corporate shill, you must have a pretty narrow and linear view of the world.
I feel bad for you
Ya i do get things can change over that long of a period of time, but sometimes, like this, it happened exactly as he said it did. So being surprised that there is no male, *for now* is kind of a hard thing to do
I really don't like the "for now" argument people are putting out. There's no precedent for them adding something of that scope inside of individual patches. I'm sure they're going to hear people loud and clear about how much they dislike this decision, but telling people that they should wait and see is naive and dismissive at best. I'm certain it's a possibility, but I ain't holdin' out hope because I have no reason to believe I should.
They didn't hide themselves behind lore. Yoshida said that it was a lot of work because the team wanted to create two races but two genders for each was beyond their scope. He also said that they will receive specific customization changes for gear considering their body shape (like making bunny ears visible or whatever)
Why not? FFXIV Viera aren't even established. We've seen all of one up until the Fanfest reveal.
I am saying for now simply because there is still a day or two left in the fan fest, it could happen, but not holding my breath. But they did add other male/female counterparts before too
en·ti·tle·ment
/inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/
noun
noun: entitlement; plural noun: entitlements
- the fact of having a right to something.
"full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
synonyms:right, prerogative, claim, title, license; More
permission, dispensation, privilege, liberty
"their entitlement to social-security benefits"
- the amount to which a person has a right.
"annual leave entitlement"
synonyms:allowance, allocation, allotment, quota, ration, grant, limit
"your annual holiday entitlement" - the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"no wonder your kids have a sense of entitlement"
- the amount to which a person has a right.
I uh.. not don't think you know what that word means. I hope those checks SE aren't paying you are worth it. I was just expecting them to not fuck up the same way again, and now I'm disappointing. And am criticizing that decision.
Dissapointment and critcism , not entitlement. Maybe one day square enix will pay you and you can take some english classes yeah?
Yes I do think blaming the fans for being upset for these devs making the exact same mistake that was made before, is being a corperate goon. I also think that you suggesting that voicing those criticisms is somehow inherently harassment, is also corporate goonery
My view of the world isn't narrow, I just don't have time for the bullshit you keep spewing
But male viera are part of the lore?
Also White Mages are only for Padjal but that doesn't stop them from running around all over the place?
Sorry--edited my answer but realized it would be hard to reply to!
They were literally destroying the game world when they added the male/female counterparts. It's a weak argument to say they've done it in the past when they were already soft-rebooting the game, moving the graphics engine around, and generally changing the entire world. It was an easy time to add those character models. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of precedent for them listening. But I'm not holding my breath that they'll be able to do anything with the feedback they're 100% going to get.
They aren't amazons, they are Viera. The context of WW's island and this are two different things
Two... why can't there just be feminine dudes...? They could have also just had pretty boys.
LOL
you literally had to google the definition of the word and yet still somehow proved my point. You seem to have plenty of time for "the bullshit im spewing" because you're still replying
I mean they are technically doing the same thing with "the source" and "the first" maybe on that new world? but i agree, not holding my breath
User banned (48 hours): Thread derailment, hostility against another user.
...Damn son you didn't even read my response. I litterally layed out how what you said doesn't make sense , and you just ignored it. So is this like an alt account or what?
Burner where you spew dissentious under the surface alt-right support, is that what we are doing right now? Because if it is, please tell me. I'll just leave you be to be vile or whatever
Yo what the fuck. Calm down. You can literally see that it isn't the case.
lol now counter arguments make me alt right? Lol i grew up liberal. I vote liberal. I unfriened people who turned out to be alt right.
Discussion aside, its pretty low to assume someone is alt right simply because they dont agree with you.
How so, his initial response is complaining about people complaining. I tell him, that's kind of bullshit. He then suggests , and even in his initial argument that I am and everyone else are acting entitled by voicing said complaints. I think ask him, why he's doing this and claim he's caping for a corperation I also open him up for him to show me how I was being entitled.
Not only does he never do this, he never actually confronts any of my arguments whatsoever.
So I don't want to believe the guy's stupid or some idiot.
So either's he's being disingenuous and has other motives
Or he's an idiot caping for a corporation that doesn't know what words mean
Oh, so you are actually being dumb , caping for a corporation and does not know what words mean. Got it.
I don't know how else to respond, you never actually argued any my points and showed yourself to be not that smart trying to be smart.
Dunno where to go from here.
Then maybe you should look at what you are actually saying? You are accusing people of criticising a sexist gender locked race design as entitled and harassing the devs by complaining about it - this is basic stuff I've seen alt-right people do on forums to shut down legit criticism coming from minorities. You can disagree with the criticism without refering to the people bringing it up as "entitled" or "harassment". It's not hard.
I can get behind this point of view. Kind of like why A17 is so popular in DBZ because he's the only male character on that show with that body type. All the other males, even the short ones, are just bulky muscle-heads so he stands out more.
User banned (48 hours): Thread derailment, hostility against another user.
i did not say once it was not sexist. Its ok to call it sexist because it is. My point was different, harassing devs over the exclusion of a male viera is counter productive and wont accomplish anything. And it rarely does
Right. Just because you don't like how someone is arguing against your specific points does not make them alt right, you ninny. That's a nasty accusation when someone just thinks that a lot of the fan backlash isn't proportional to what's going on. Especially because the post count is too high to be a burner, plus join date. Learn 2 forum.
The fans got part of what they asked for, taken at face value. They wanted Viera, they got Viera in the only way they've ever been presented. Does that make it any less dumb? Absolutely not. But there is half an argument to be made for getting what you asked for and not what you wanted.
The sexist discussion is 110% valid and the discussion that should be happening.
It's bizarre that JP devs still seem somewhat out-of-touch with the self-expression that an MMO inherently has. It's why a lot of people with severe social anxieties and depression are drawn to them; It's a world where they can easily be who and what they want. Taking that option away for an incredibly arbitrary reason is... dumb. The only reasons we have so far are so, so vapid. One is Yoshi-P literally going "lol that'd be weird" and the other is Development Resources. Which is fair, I guess, but they're still devoting time and money to a race that census data has shown in the past to be a complete waste of time.
People pay a monthly subscription to this game. I think we have a right to voice our criticism over a decision we dislike.
How is anything in this thread harassment? And people are allowed to complain about it - it's the only way things get changed, not just in this game, but so other devs see the issue and don't repeat it. Bringing up sexist game decisions is not "whining" and most of your posts are about shutting the discussion down which ends up shutting down minorities voices down as well.
He's discribing pretty much all the discussion about it as "whining" and "entitled" and actually as "harassment". Those types of words are designed to shut discussion down. I haven't seen anything in this thread that goes into harassment terriotory. Just people disappointed about a sexist game decision.
See: Reddit. Not on this forum but the OF, Reddit, and Twitter have been popping off for a long time and will continue to do so. Maybe harass isn't exactly the perfect word, but you'll have to forgive me for not dog-piling someone for a single poor choice of word. The Reddit mods are currently having to work pretty damn hard to curtail some of the bullshit going on over there.
There is a level of entitlement. I don't necessarily agree that it's a primary, driving factor, because it's wholly based on precedent and has a lot of underlying issues (see: self expression and sexism). But people saw Viera and assumed they'd get male/female. It was an assumption that was wrong, and now people are upset. Understandably so, but nonetheless.
Ivalice =/= Eorzea, miss me with that and they can change/retcon the lore whichever way they want.
They've already shown sketch designs of male Viera. On some level it was thought of and scrapped because "lorrrrrrrrreeeeee" or "male bunnies would be weird 🤔."
You aren't the first person to say it "could happen" and at this point, it just seems like handwaving/telling people to shut up because they're upset about it in the off chance they might(which without confirmation is disingenuous at best) get it later. You might as well be arguing in bad faith.
People have a right to complain. We pay for this game every month.
People complain about mechanics, jobs, content and options ALL THE TIME in MMO's and guess what? it's for the purpose that Dev's can listen and implement changes. This isn't new but apparently the moment people get upset over a sexist decision suddenly all these posters pop up claiming everyone is entitled and is outraged for nothing.
This all ignoring the fact that I don't see half as many of these people saying the same over the complaints about Dancer not being a healer.
Official Staff Communication
Let's get this discussion back on track without throwing accusations at each other.
There's a marked difference between complaining and being nasty. Again, the Reddit mods are working overtime in an effort to keep the discussion civil. This discussion had to have a mod reminder to stay civil. Clearly there's a different tone and cadence behind how people are discussing the gender lock. Dancer not being a healer is a totally different argument because it's just rooted in "I don't like it".
Viera is a much more nuanced discussion that deserves some focus. Not everyone is even discussing it as a form of sexism. You're being disingenuous by trying to frame this as just a sexist thing. It's self-expression, it's sexism (though that's a deeper discussion because it doesn't even look sexist at first glance, at least not in a more muanced fashion) and it's just a plain ol' dumb decision.
This isn't really a matter of resources, it's completely intentional because for some reason male rabbits are weird to Naoki Yoshida aka half-naked bunny sexdolls are fine but god forbid having to make a male counterpart (from a 2013 interview):
Well, there it is. And yet you have people in here believing the budget constraints nonsense the team used as an excuse.
I'm curious as to what qualifies being nasty behaviour? Labelling this decision as sexist which it 100% is?
Dancer being DPS is way bigger than that. Healers have been stuck with 3 jobs for 4 years meanwhile DPS is at 10 options now. XIV needs more players to try healers and tanks and yet they continue to add DPS. Tank received Gunbreaker as an incentive to try the role yet healers still have nothing and are plagued already with balance issues that they don't even address.
How is this nonsense ? They have male viera concept arts, and they are a definite part of the lore they wrote. We have never seen two races released at the same time in the history of the MMO, surely this is a point worth considering.
This is an interview from all the way back to 2013 too.
Hold up. I really have to put a stop to this whole "dps at 10 options now" thing that people keep parading. People that have been playing the range physical support role don't have 10 options, they have 2 with 1 being the least played job in the whole game for 2 expansions in a row.
Dancer is a range physical support. There are currently only 2 of them, with 1 (MCH) of them being the last played class by a mile in end game content. No, its not about the class being weak, even when MCH was the 2nd strongest dps while bringing support skills it was still the least played class by a large margin even when compared to the 2nd least played job. Range physical support is basically a require slot for any end game encounter, you won't see any raid group not bring one no matter their skill level due to the support (mp/tp recovery, raid defense). So realistically people have been stuck on bard for years.
Dancer is a much needed addition to the range support role. Bard is like 5x more played than machinist, so they need to shake up that whole role.
This isn't the most accurate proof but can give you a gauge at how the range physical dynamic is currently.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/25/#dataset=10
Thats bard at nearly 21k logs uploaded and less than 5k on machinist. And this isn't about "o bards are stronger", this is about machinist is just not fun for most people regardless of how strong it is.
So people who have been playing support range physical have been stuck on bard for 5-6 years.
That they chose to release two different races over having sexy bunny boys sure is a point worth considering, yeah. Lore doesn't mean anything for those asking for playables.
Shame. These are cool races and everybody should be able to be a ronso cat mama and a vierra bunny daddy
I'm saying what's worth considering is budget/time constraints, and I used the lore to say that male viera *can** be a part of the ff14 universe...
It's DPS. It doesn't matter if the type of DPS is smaller it still is a DPS class. Trying to argue that 10 DPS options is wrong is a ridiculous stance to take becuase it's a fact there is now 10 DPS.
You have every right to feel that because the type of DPS doesn't have many options this decision is okay but others can be against the idea that DPS now has 10 playable options.
You don't at all think that their stance on this from a previous interview translating into the outcome we have now is at all suspicious? Again, *can* is of no consequence to those that want to play the male bunny now, is it? Developers can do a lot but choose not to, so it is difficult to see that as a positive.
It's DPS. It doesn't matter if the type of DPS is smaller it still is a DPS class. Trying to argue that 10 DPS options is wrong is a ridiculous stance to take becuase it's a fact there is now 10 DPS.
You have every right to feel that because the type of DPS doesn't have many options this decision is okay but others can be against the idea that DPS now has 10 playable options.
I mean its convenient to ignore all context if it fits your argument, sure.
But to ignore that they clearly designated a support role that is vital to any raid group is silly. How many of those 10 dps fill that role? 2 with 1 being literally a dead job for majority of the playerbase. Yeah the game has 10 dps jobs but tell any raid group that their only support job is going samurai/ninja/monk/dragoon/red mage/black mage/ summoner and see what kind of response you'll get. In the context of end game, there is a designated spot for support dps.
It even says clearly "Range support" in your pic.
What role restores a large amount of mp/tp to the party, and have support skills tied to their role skill action?
Ignoring that ppl been stuck on bard (and to a lesser ext) machinist for 4-5 years is just awfully nice because it fits your narrative.
I'm not framing anything as a positive, I just don't feel this is a nonsense excuse, however ff14 always had gender disparity issues since 1.0. They should have had just focused on one race, and kept both genders
Eh I wouldn't take that interview response as much on an indication of why we don't have male Viera. Back in 2015 they showed concept art of Viera which included a coupe of concepts for male Viera, they're clearly open to the idea.