You should buy the remasters on PC for performance, or Switch for mobility. Others are kind of meh
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Final Fantasy VIII Remaster Announced - E3 2019 (PC, PS4, Switch, Xbox One) - Release Sept 3
- Thread starter Wazzy
- Start date
I'd be very surprised if it had that issue considering this seems to be an actual remaster rather than VII and IX, which are more straightforward ports.
This is literally in between 7 and 9 because they are porting it exactly like 9 except they started from the PC version like 7. And we haven't heard or seen anything that seems to have more "remastered" than what they did for 9.
Lol
Is there a link to all these details? Not seeing it in the OP.
Did they completely redo models for IX? While I've played it, it just seems like they got higher resolution textures and that's it. What's going on with VIII's characters looks more extensive.
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I have no idea what Slaythe is talking about. I haven't seen anything stating this is using the PC port especially since some features aren't even included like Chocobo World.
It's definitely possible but they are doing way more with this port than IX hence being labelled a remaster.
Yes they did, you're incorrect.
This is not a "new texture".
Didn't pay very close attention to IX, which is why I asked.
Hmm I'm pretty sure it will be using the PC version as a base. Besides the fact that it makes more sense, the battle screen has a little gap under the menu just like the PC version, which the PS1 version doesn't have.
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The IX models were always advertised as being given an HD upgrade but I've never seen it stated they were completely redone like the VIII models are so I'm again confused as to how Slaythe can claim they were completely redone.
In fact IX is only advertised as an HD port.
I'm not denying the possibility. I'm saying as far as I know they haven't said anything about using the PC port as the base for this remaster and I'm not using assumptions as fact.
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Yeah fair. It'll be interesting to see what else they do to this game besides new character models (if anything).
Yeah, I didn't think we had any details like that yet. It's absolutely possible based on Square Enix making sure to label this with a new title, unlike VII and IX, along with the developer's comments on Twitter, it feels like more will be done here than with VII and IX.
I could be wrong but it's not the vibe I'm getting.
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Well hopefully the response from Dotemu given to me is hinting at a lot more! :D
I'm really excited. I'm watching an HD mod of FF8 to give myself an idea of how it could look.
And man the PS1 version looks grainy now.
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They have only stated it was given an HD upgrade. Right now VIII is advertising that the models are redone.
They definitely redid the models
Do you have any source saying they completely redid the models? They did plenty of interviews about IX HD so I would assume they said it in them.
....
Yeah an HD upgrade where they remade the models, textures, and faces...
Like I'm not sure what your point is. You're literally arguing about semantics when we can literally see for ourselves that they remade the models.
They redid the models. I mean, you only have to look at that image to tell; a glance at Zidane's cuffs, or waistline, or even jawline shows a significant uptick in triangles.
Also, in FF9 Remastered you can actually see the difference between the key players in the story (with new models) and lesser characters (who only have updated textures). This is quite well hidden in FF9 because the game has mostly non-human NPCs with out-there designs - but in FF8 it's probably gonna be a lot more noticeable, if they do the same level of work. Maybe this'll force their hand to actually remodel the NPCs, though, but I doubt this will happen as FF8 has lots of weird stuff going on with NPCs - like some models in highly populated areas like Deling are actually baked into the CG backgrounds for frame rate reasons, and can't be updated because of that. These remasters are always gonna end up a little uneven because of stuff that, I guess.
Dunno if you missed my reply earlier. Do you have a source for what you were saying about the VIII Remaster earlier?
The difference won't be greater than Wakka's HQ remaster face model compared to the MS Paint faces of the Besaid Aurochs though :D
Hahaha, yeah. The flat faces in FFX, I'd forgotten about that. All these remasters have these little things, I guess.
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You are comparing the models of IX to VIII and saying the same level of remodelling was done which is not something they have advertised once with IX HD but is the focal point with the VIII remaster.
I asked for a source because the only thing I have seen advertised for IX is HD upgrades and since the models are still very similar looking I saw that as texture upgrades and some small tweaking.
Why are you referring to IX as a remaster? The game was labelled as an HD port which is why I'm discussing the difference between the model changes.
You, Dipuu and Slaythe are most likely correct that they redid the models in some form(though I think it's completely fair to ask for a source considering they didn't label it that way) but I do not agree at all that the level of remodelling is even close to VIII.
VIII is classified as a remaster by SE. IX HD is not.
This. IX did get its models redone but let's not pretend it's even close to the level VIII is getting.
Regarding the bolded, it's semantic wank anyway. They've realized that putting 'Remastered' in the title is a sales draw because it makes clear the game has been changed and improved. It's the same reason FF7 Remake is called FF7 Remake and not FF7 Remake: Episode One or FF7 Remake: Episode Midgar. Naming matters. They've put 'remastered' in the name this time, but every screenshot shows a similar level of update work to FF9, which was great, so I don't see what the problem is or why people are on the defensive at the idea that this might simply be a re-release on the same level as the FF9 one.
But that aside, Square Enix referred to it as remastered in their announcement press release for FF9's re-release: "TIMELESS FINAL FANTASY IX REMASTERED FOR MOBILE DEVICES". (Dug the email back out).
The press releases for the PC, PS4, Switch and Xbox versions of the game all make note of the "updated character models" for FF9, too. It's the first bullet point (alongside "high definition movies") on the press releases they put out for that game (or at least, on the four I have copies of). So, er, yes, they did advertise it.
The changes made to FF9 are likely absolutely the template for the changes now being made to 8. The truth is we don't know, but what's been shown so far is totally the same set of changes/improvements made to FF7 and in particular FF9, and if they were sitting on some magic, major difference-maker in the remaster process I would've thought it would've been highlighted in the trailer. FF7 had less changes because it was harder to improve with all the model disparity and stuff, but yeah.
The biggest difference that could be made this time around would be for them to use machine learned-upscaling for the CG backgrounds rather than the blurring filter they used for FF7 and 9, as demonstrated by FF7/9 PC mods. That'd be nice.
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You're assuming the intention of the label and I'm not going to.
Only two other mainline were given remastered titles which is X/X-2 and XII. Both had a lot more done than a simple HD port.
It doesn't mean you can't end up right but I think people need to stop making assumptions until we actually know more.
Thank you. You provided a source which is what I asked for. You might not like it but I'm going by what SE states and if I don't see them label it a specific way then I'm not going to say they factually completely redid the models.
I still heavily disagree with your view on labelling being purely for sales reasons. They had already released X/X2 remaster so why didn't they label the ports remasters on PS4?
I fully believe the VIII remaster is having more done to it especially since the original models are worse. Squall alone has an entirely new model.
Dotemu was in charge of FF7.
They used the PC version for that. We have no reason to believe they used anything else as the starting point for this remaster since we know 8's source code was lost like the others.
You can also see the combat menu on the screen release is identical to the PC version, which doesn't match the ps1 version.
Menu at the exact bottom of the screen
psx menu
pc menu
Remaster menu
It's literally 1:1 with the pc version, who would have thought.
As for the rest of my statement, not a single thing shown or advertised about the 8 remaster was lacking from the 9 remaster. (game boosters, speed up, remade models)
They were all MIDI files just like in the original PC release.
Listen to ten seconds of this
Then ten seconds of this
And you'll see why
Do you get why I'm saying this might be setting yourself up for disappointment given FF9 also had new character models for its entire core cast, and also had all of the features so far advertised for FF8 Remaster? And was also described by Square Enix as remastered in their own press releases? And was made by the same team? To me the only difference appears to be that this time around they decided to put the word remastered in the title. We'll see, I guess. What else would you anticipate them doing?
It's raw midi music, basically. Back in 2000 when that PC version came out if you had a really good sound card you could get OK sound out of it, but given MIDI is hardly a focus for modern PCs when they re-released it on PC over ten years later it sounded like a nightmare
Dotemu was in charge of FF7.
They used the PC version for that. We have no reason to believe they used anything else as the starting point for this remaster since we know 8's source code was lost like the others.
You can also see the combat menu on the screen release is identical to the PC version, which doesn't match the ps1 version.
Menu at the exact bottom of the screen
psx menu
pc menu
Remaster menu
It's literally 1:1 with the pc version, who would have thought.
As for the rest of my statement, not a single thing shown or advertised about the 8 remaster was lacking from the 9 remaster. (game boosters, speed up, remade models)
I anticipated it'd be based off PC just based off source code problems, but this is a really good catch in terms of actually seeing if it's the case.
This is not a "I think" problem.
You don't get to disagree. IX got remade models, entirely, the goal was to aim for something that meshed well with the originals. But the geometry and texture work was completely different. They nailed the art style to make it look like it was always there. It's harder for 8 because the models were aiming for "realistic" and not stylized. But the amount of work done is basically the same. Keep the animations 1:1, redo the geometry, the fidelity, and the textures.
This was done for IX, and was heavily advertised at the time, especially since they made the backgrounds even worse, the only visual improvements beyond FMVs and menus were the models being remade and the removal of the flickering issue.
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No this is not a fact. This was a rumour started by VG twitter and got widespread as being true despite SE never confirming it.
Even if we were to say that it was true, we have no idea if they found the source code. While it's most likely they DID use the PC port( I have stated before that they can use the PC port when people were denying the possibility of an updated port for newer systems) it's still completely weird to state it like it's a fact confirmed by SE.
I absolutely CAN disagree. We have seen 30 seconds of the game and a few screenshots showcasing the new battle UI and speech boxes. If I see them titling the two differently then I have the right to believe they are different.
You don't get to use your thoughts as facts. Sorry. You're making tons of assumptions and presenting them as though you have already been proven right by SE statements.
I'm not setting myself up at all. I'm very happy with what is confirmed and shown so far.
What we disagree on is the titling of the game. You believe they are on the exact same level and are labelled differently purely for selling purposes and you could absolutely be right.
I believe the title is important and that the level of work being done is more because VIII had models that were much worse than IX and requires more work. IX had always had fantastic models even though they were pixelated.
I've even said that you're right the models were redone but because I never saw them promoted as such I wanted a source which you provided.
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I know you feel strongly about this Slaythe but I'd really appreciate it if you didn't try to tell other people what they can and can't think. Wazzy is free to disagree even if she ends up being wrong.
Well, I think the evidence of the screenshot above where the menus are pixel-perfect identical to the PC version is pretty compelling, but we also have, just this week, the SE president saying this of their legacy games in general: "I'm embarrassed to admit it, but in some cases, we don't know where the code is anymore. It's very hard to find them sometimes, because back in the day you just made them and put them out there and you were done – you didn't think of how you were going to sell them down the road. Sometimes customers ask, 'Why haven't you released that [game] yet?' And the truth of the matter is it's because we don't know where it has gone."
I will admit, I obviously have skin in this game: I did a twitter thread on FF7 and FF8's missing code, and later wrote an article detailing it more fully. That article wasn't just based off conjecture: it was based off conversations with sources I trust who would have a direct understanding of the situation. So while it is a "twitter rumor", I absolutely stand by it, and I think people who follow my work would say I've got a pretty decent track record on stuff like this. In the article, I conclude:
"People laughed and mocked Square for having a full year between the PlayStation Experience announcement of FF7 for PS4 and its December 2015 release, but the truth is this is probably how long it took Square Enix to get a version of the game running reliably on the platform. With source code lost and FF7 made up of five different game engines for the different modes of play, it was a very complex project. FF8 is a larger, more ambitious game, and is structured in a similar way. To bring it to PS4 (and in turn other platforms) will take time."
That is, by my estimation, what happened: they probably took the time to go through the lengthy process of reverse-engineering the PC release, as they did with FF7.
We also know from first-hand conversations and interviews that (for instance) source art was lost for FFX and KH1, so for those remasters textures had to be redrawn from scratch rather than recompiled at a higher resolution. We know from various interviews that much of FF7 was lost (including the amazing quote to Polygon from the ex-head of Eidos, who published FF7 on PC before SE acquired them, explaining that SE called him when they were doing the 2012 PC re-release and asked if he had a copy of the PC version's source), so the chances of FF8 being entirely intact are very slim.
I'm not sure if anybody hacked it apart, but 9 runs in Unity, yeah. IDK if that's just a shell to run the PS1 code or what. I'd be curious if anybody here knows.
Well, by which I mean: they couldn't dive into the raw code, so they used the PC version as a base and hacked it and messed with it to get it where it needed to be. Which is why FF7 mobile/etc launched with (and still has some) bugs and foibles that were found on the 98 PC release but not in the PS1 original. One very early reissue of FF7 PC even had remnants of some fan mods that made it work on modern operating systems in the code, heh - but that was patched out. And... yeah, it created new bugs too. That's a very different process to starting from having all the raw materials of a game, which is what a company like Bluepoint Games did for Shadow of the Colossus or Tantalus did for Twilight Princess HD or whatever else.
The catch by the other member up above comparing the UIs and noting the screenshots for this are identical to the current PC version at least suggest this is probably the same deal, but we'll see. It's nigh impossible to get SE to actually say for certain one way or another though, as I think they don't like admitting what they do and don't have in source code terms of their classic games, even though there's no shame in stuff being lost because nobody archived anything back then.
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I didn't recall it being you exactly but I knew it was from VG.
I'm not saying the source code rumor is wrong but I'm not going to say it's fact either. I've warned people for quite a long time now that true or not, stop spreading the rumour as meaning the port can't happen but instead people continued to misinform others using what you wrote as a fact that meant the port will never happen.
We literally have reactions from people who believe SE is the one that stated what you wrote.
Unlikely as it is, it's possible for them to have found the source code and IIRC I saw a developer actually had a copy of the game at 80% completion. This is why I'm heavily against people spreading it as fact instead of acknowledging that it's a rumour.
I should add that the reason this whole conversation happened is because a poster asked why this information wasn't in the OP so I responded that Slaythe stated his opinion as fact and not as something that is confirmed. I'm not putting opinions in the OP no matter how likely it is.
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I'd read that the recent ports of FF7 are just wrappers around the PC port:
Link: https://amp.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ysjeu/iama_guy_who_has_been_reverse_engineering_final/
Link: https://amp.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ysjeu/iama_guy_who_has_been_reverse_engineering_final/
The only thing I said you don't get to disagree with was about IX receiving the same amount of care regarding the character models.
Not the PC version. Because we already saw IX, it's out, this is factual.
I did not see where you said I was right on the matter. Sorry if I missed it.
You can read through my post again and see I don't mention anything about a PC version so hopefully that clears it up.
And hum, Scottia, the IX models are as good as they were gonna get. They are the PERFECT level of fidelity that both makes them look fantastic and fit in with the world / other npcs.
This is the standard, so I don't really feel like you saying IX got some sort of sloppy job compared to 8 is accurate.
Yeah, that's fair enough. And I can only research, talk to those I can behind-the-scenes and report back on what my understanding of the situation is; everybody is at that point free to analyse, question and believe what they want from it. I can't help if people don't read or misattribute though; the article is pretty clearly not from SE, and it's also clearly an explanation of why these re-releases take time and why they're never perfect as opposed to an argument for why it was never going to happen. People just need to actually read.
I think this is strictly referring to PC and they did some slightly different work for Mobile/Console (these versions don't have feature parity, at least), but Halkun is a god in the FF7/8 PC modding scene whose work I've followed for like a decade so his word is certainly gospel to me
