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Koozek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,913
Love this shit.

75 pages on Era and 2+ million views on the trailer, proud of y'all.
Holy crap, didnt really pay attention to the number of pages in this thread.

And its a 1 minute trailer lol.
That's just one upload of the trailer. If you add up the biggest ones the trailer has over 6 million views - and that's just YouTube. People forget that many watch their trailers directly on FB or Twitter. On Twitter just one of the official tweets has over 2.5 million and on FB too.
 

Carmelozi

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,158
I hope it's just an over-the-top cinematic like the original. FFVII was all about spectacle when it came to summons, and I liked that about FFXV too. I don't like the shift in combat that comes with controllable summons. The only time that's worked for me would be something like in Xenogears where there were two completely different battle systems for regular combat and mechs, but I wouldn't really want that for this game.
Yeah, I would love to see the level of FFXV summon scenes in FFVIIR too. I hope they these scenes change depending on the location of the player, it was a cool thing in FFXV but maybe it's a lot of work to design that.

Most of them translate pretty fine to a more action-y system as is (grand spells/stats/summons/skills) and ultimately there really aren't all that many materia in the game so I would think development time constraints shouldn't be too much of an issue. Not sure how well something like W-Summon fits in an action RPG but others seem fairly doable in one. If anything, I could see them adding some new materia rather than removing a lot, considering this is now multiple games.
Yeah I'm sure there will be something good with materia. Wonder if we will see a tech tree system for materia/ability and a gambit system or something like that to customize the way we play.

Oh, about the Sephiroth appearance in the trailer, could it happen there?
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,200
7duopJH.jpg


They seriously are maintaining the same sense and feelings of the original game.
 

Kikujiro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
905
RE2 was too, and they did a lot of effort on the remake. That's not an excuse.
Instead of making a new thing, they're just recopying the Kingdom Hearts formula.

How can you say that after watching a one minute trailer? It's the beginning of the game, of course it's simplistic, every JRPG battle system is simplistic at the beginning of the game.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
You don't know this. Actually from what we've seen so far and what we've read the battle system looks like it has similarities to XII.
What are the similarities you're seeing?
How can you say that after watching a one minute trailer? It's the beginning of the game, of course it's simplistic, every JRPG battle system is simplistic at the beginning of the game.
KH's battle system doesn't become deeper later on, nor does FFXV (even if some people tried for years to defend it). It's hard to think it will somehow change later on considering the director.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,576
FF7's battle system is really simple, especially at the start before you unlock more materia.
 

Koozek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,913
Gotta take damage to build limit. Personally, I cant see the battle system as anything other than a modern take on the old system. FF7 was NEVER turn based, regardless of what people mistakenly think. With the blue bars being (I think) ATB gauges, it's just like the old system except now regular attack is a filler as opposed to something you need to wait for. You still need to wait for command attacks and magic, and no doubt these attacks will do more damage than a regular attack to make them worth waiting for and using. You see Cloud in the trailer using some flip attack which costs him one blue bar and does 618 damage as opposed to the 30 that his regular attack does.
Isn't the ATB mechanic pretty much just a basic cooldown like in most ARPGs? And guarding and positioning play a role too (see the image below), so it overall still seems be more Action-based, though maybe not with overly strict timing-based mechanics. Nomura and Kitase implied over the last years that it won't be hardcore Action-y and twitch-based.

From 2015:
Nomura: "Regarding the battle speed and tempo, for the sake of a stress-free battle, we want to do something on the level of Dissidia Final Fantasy. As far as the degree of action goes, it's Dissidia Final Fantasy, then Kingdom Hearts, then Final Fantasy VII Remake. There won't be any actions that require a technique. By using the new system, we want to do action battles while also being able to fight while thinking strategically."

Source.

From 2017:
1)
What drove the decision to move away from the traditional turn-based system toward action-focused combat?
We haven't completely transitioned into action, but as our director [Tetsuya] Nomura-san says, Final Fantasy (in terms of action games) is best represented by Dissidia in the current landscape. In terms of the Final Fantasy action battles people have experienced themselves, that is most familiar to them these days. In terms of the image of the battle system, that's where we're getting the feel from. It won't be as action-focused as Dissidia, of course, but the the visuals and how the gameplay feels in essence will be drawn from that Dissidia-esque style.

2)
Finally, please tell us more about the Final Fantasy VII Remake that has caught the world's attention.
Nomura: If it had past materials like Kingdom Hearts, the basics would have been easy to understand, and the staff can understand the hurdles we've had to overcome, but at any rate, the battles in Final Fantasy VII have greatly changed from the original, since they're something with more action in them. The next time I release information about Final Fantasy VII Remake, I think that I'll definitely have to explain the specifics of what the battle system has become to the players. I think right now that nobody is really able to imagine a concrete battle, so I'm in the middle of coming up with steps that I can show and explain to people, "It's this kind of battle."

Sounds like you're breaking your backs over remaking what was originally a command-based battle system into an action style battle system.
Nomura: We've heard a lot of Final Fantasy VII fans also say that they want to play the game with the original ATB style, but for the remake we're proceeding toward an action-heavy style. Of course, we've added systems that future fans will be able to enjoy, so people who are bad at action-style battles, please don't worry. For those who excel at action-style battles, we're working to make this a system that's different than what you've used before and can still enjoy. Recently, we checked the Guard Scorpion at the beginning of the game, and I think you'll be satisfied with the realism you'll feel there.
-----

I think you're pretty much spot on, but I think Cross will be dodge rather than jump. Jumping isn't really necessary, and it adds a whole other layer of complexity when you're designing levels and combos, which the dev team would know from working on KH.

I honestly get the feeling the game will be pretty "slow" compared to actual action games, and rely more on positioning, combos, and building up your gauges. Kinda like a modern mix of Kingdom Hearts 1 and Crisis Core.

X could also be reserved for simple interactions with the world or limited time QTEs
Yeah I agree it's too early to make these assumptions. I just felt Cloud's movement and attacks felt more automated than anything I have seen in KH3 or FFXV.. It will also be curious to see how the general movement of the character is.
Hopefully we see a lot more footage and information next month to get proper idea on how the combat works.
In the screenshot of the Scorpion battle from 2017 you could see red target zones, so positioning might does play a role.

xWP4ES3.png
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,887
Honestly, the speculation about the combat system has me really excited. If people are analyzing the trailer correctly, it seems like an action-based evolution of the ATB, which I would vastly prefer over XVs combat. And I'm not someone who really wanted FF to go in an action direction in the first place.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
You're staying they aren't doing a lot of effort based on a minute footage?
I'm saying there's nothing impressive shown about the combat, and that it seems extremely similar to Kingdom Hearts (which isn't surprising considering the director, and isn't great either).
But I can understand why you'd be hyped for it looking at your avatar.
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,402
Isn't the ATB mechanic pretty much just a basic cooldown like in most ARPGs? And guarding and positioning play a role too (see the image below), so it overall still seems be more Action-based, though maybe not with overly strict timing-based mechanics. Nomura and Kitase implied over the last years that it won't be hardcore Action-y and twitch-based.

From 2015:


From 2017:

-----



In the screenshot of the Scorpion battle from 2017 you could see red target zones, so positioning might does play a role.

xWP4ES3.png
man they've really been trying to figure out that UI huh? wouldn't be surprised if it changes again from what we just saw.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,887
This has probably been posted but I ran across this video analyzing the combat based on the trailer.

I haven't played a Kingdom Hearts game in ten years, but this seems like it'll be less button mashy than I remember those being.

 

CocoaFusion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,130
I'm saying there's nothing impressive shown about the combat, and that it seems extremely similar to Kingdom Hearts (which isn't surprising considering the director, and isn't great either).
But I can understand why you'd be hyped for it looking at your avatar.
Not really, the only thing similar to KH right now is how a part of its UI is laid out and maybe the controls. Otherwise even based off a minute footage, character switching and screenshots of them taking stealth/cover based actions, it's difficult to say anything about it- especially being extremely similar to any one game. I can see some similarities to it but I can also see similarities to Dissidia and its own thing.

man they've really been trying to figure out that UI huh? wouldn't be surprised if it changes again from what we just saw.
That's a Nomura thing lol. He's probably going to change it again.
 

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
I'm saying there's nothing impressive shown about the combat, and that it seems extremely similar to Kingdom Hearts (which isn't surprising considering the director, and isn't great either).
But I can understand why you'd be hyped for it looking at your avatar.

You haven't shit about the combat to reach this conclusion. And my avatar is irrelevant to this conversation.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
What are the similarities you're seeing?
This goes without saying but this is purely based on speculating from reading interviews and gut feelings.
I think combat will be more automated than the trailer let's off. I don't think we'll be mashing square to attack for 30+ hours. Basic attacks will be automated once you pick a target. There won't be enough time to be hitting square because you'll be switching between 3 party members to use their ATB bars. So similar to a tough battle in XII where you're constantly micro-managing spell and ability usage without the Gambit system.
Interviews have said combat is action-based while still not requiring twitch action skills, a system where fans of FF7 can still feel at home, a system where concepts like the ATB bar still make sense.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
You haven't shit about the combat to reach this conclusion. And my avatar is irrelevant to this conversation.
Your avatar was relevant because you didn't explain how KH-like combat would be good or interesting.
The combat doesn't seem to have evolved over the two gameplay trailers we have seen for this game over two years anyway.
This goes without saying but this is purely based on speculating from reading interviews and gut feelings.
I think combat will be more automated than the trailer let's off. I don't think we'll be mashing square to attack for 30+ hours. Basic attacks will be automated once you pick a target. There won't be enough time to be hitting square because you'll be switching between 3 party members to use their ATB bars. So similar to a tough battle in XII where you're constantly micro-managing spell and ability usage without the Gambit system.
Interviews have said combat is action-based while still not requiring twitch action skills, a system where fans of FF7 can still feel at home, a system where concepts like the ATB bar still make sense.
Don't you think it just means it could be like FFXV, where you just hold a button regarding the lack of skill anyway? Could perfectly be semi-automated, have simple controls, and still asks you to switch characters while being relatively engaging on the action side.
I don't really get your comparison with micro-management in FFXII tbh.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,416
Yeah, I would love to see the level of FFXV summon scenes in FFVIIR too. I hope they these scenes change depending on the location of the player, it was a cool thing in FFXV but maybe it's a lot of work to design that.


Yeah I'm sure there will be something good with materia. Wonder if we will see a tech tree system for materia/ability and a gambit system or something like that to customize the way we play.

Oh, about the Sephiroth appearance in the trailer, could it happen there?

yeah i noticed that too, this "flashback/hallucination" could be after the pillar explosion, and thats why cloud is looking up and why he's remembering nibehelm because of the fire and people dying
 

Coinspinner

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,149
Looking at the battles again, even if it seems less actiony than feared it still seems like the party members you don't have selected will act on their own, doing whatever. I get the impression that this system is gonna be a compromise that leaves both command-menu and action-game folks unsatisfied. Also if Limit Breaks are just commands you can use whenever you have blue bar, what's the yellow bar for? Maybe the Limit bar will work like in Smash, and power up the skill? Aerith and Vincent are going to be interesting if you can use their Limits at will.
 

Glass Arrows

Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,414
Your avatar was relevant because you didn't explain how KH-like combat would be good or interesting.
KH2FM has one of the best action-RPG systems ever made. The gamefeel is excellent, it has a LOT of viable options to handle fights (magic, summons, limits, drives, etc), some truly excellent bosses, and its Critical mode is one of the best balanced and most rewarding "hard modes" out there which says a lot given how many games do them poorly. The other games are hit and miss, and you're entitled to your opinion as to whether you enjoy it or not but the battle planner for VIIR being the same as KH2's has personally always given me confidence that VIIR's combat will at least be decent.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Your avatar was relevant because you didn't explain how KH-like combat would be good or interesting.
The combat doesn't seem to have evolved over the two gameplay trailers we have seen for this game over two years anyway.

Don't you think it just means it could be like FFXV, where you just hold a button regarding the lack of skill anyway? Could perfectly be semi-automated, have simple controls, and still asks you to switch characters while being relatively engaging on the action side.
I don't really get your comparison with micro-management in FFXII tbh.

Hold button to attack was definitely a Tabata thing and probably won't be making a return.
In some of the harder battles in XII you absolutely needed to constantly be switching between characters and giving them commands, even with the Gambit system. Now imagine not using the Gambit system; every time an ATB bar fills up you'd need to give a command. In this game I'm guessing attacks are automated, but abilities (magic/stronger attacks/items) will need commands.
Looking at the battles again, even if it seems less actiony than feared it still seems like the party members you don't have selected will act on their own, doing whatever. I get the impression that this system is gonna be a compromise that leaves both command-menu and action-game folks unsatisfied. Also if Limit Breaks are just commands you can use whenever you have blue bar, what's the yellow bar for? Maybe the Limit bar will work like in Smash, and power up the skill? Aerith and Vincent are going to be interesting if you can use their Limits at will.
The blue bars are for items/magic/and certain attacks. Braver is no longer a limit break but an attack that uses a section of the blue ATB bar. Cross slash is a limit break that uses the yellow limit break bar. There was a rumor posted on Reddit that this is similar for most characters. So for instance Blade Beam which was a LB in the original is now an ability attack but Climhazard is an LB. Or Back blast for Barret as an attack, but Big Shot as an LB.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
User Banned (3 days): Hostility; history of similar infractions
What are the similarities you're seeing?

KH's battle system doesn't become deeper later on, nor does FFXV (even if some people tried for years to defend it). It's hard to think it will somehow change later on considering the director.
Lol. KH's combat system absolutely becomes deeper as you unlock more of the abilities. Try to actually know what the fuck you are talking about before making idiotic comments.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,638
I don't feel like arguing bout Ffxv but you a damn lie if you think kh don't get deeper as you go. Even 3 being more simplified got deeper. Stop it
 

Xenosaga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,976
In the screenshot of the Scorpion battle from 2017 you could see red target zones, so positioning might does play a role.

xWP4ES3.png
yeah there will probably be some level of positional importance, but these are similar to stuff you see in MMOs like FFXIV. I don't know if it will play as heavy role as full on action combats for every attack...
 

CocoaFusion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,130
No one ever really explains how KH's combat does not become deeper later on. Although at this point that's off-topic but it's a strange sentiment to have.

Also, it's pretty clear there is no holding button if you watch the teaser.

yeah there will probably be some level of positional importance, but these are similar to stuff you see in MMOs like FFXIV. I don't know if it will play as heavy role as full on action combats for every attack...
Yeah, as in it will be a lot more lenient (which of course isn't a bad thing at all).
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,402
That's a Nomura thing lol. He's probably going to change it again.
Only things i'd like to see change are the MP and HP bars. They need to be more pronounced or just easier to read. i get that they want to limit the amount of colors used cause green blue purple and yellow is a bit much. might try and take a stab at it.
 

Theiea

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,572
All this FF7R hype makes me want to play the original again.

Does the Steam version support analog movement? Last time I played FF7 was on a BC PS2.