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Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Do you guys think that the party is in the same timeline they begun in? I was kind of under they impression that they went into another timeline because of the Barrett scene at the end, where he extends his arm and kind of connects to Marlene. It made me feel that distance wasn't the only thing separating them.

I think that they left Beagle Stamp universe behind going through the portal and are now in Yorkshire (?) Stamp universe.

Nah. That makes a lot of what happened in the previous timeline inconsequential and if they're a new timeline then we'll have two different versions of our party.

Cloud 1 & 2

Tifa 1 & 2

Zack 2

Aerith & Aeris

Barret 1 & 2

Red XIII 1 & 2

Also is Marlene from Midgar 1 an orphan again? Is Marlene in Midgar 2 gonna have Barret daddies?
 
Oct 8, 2019
9,142
While opinion is divided on wether the party entered a new timeline or not, I would like to thank you for coming up with the best possible way to refer to these timelines.

can we PLEASE refer to them as "Timeline Beagle" and "Timeline Yorkshire" please? This is the best and funniest way to do so.

The best way to describe them is "Cute Stamp" and "Even Cuter Stamp" also I am pretty sure the "Even Cuter Stamp" is a border terrier and looks nothing like a Yorkshire Terrier

 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
Nah. That makes a lot of what happened in the previous timeline inconsequential and if they're a new timeline then we'll have two different versions of our party.

Cloud 1 & 2

Tifa 1 & 2

Zack 2

Aerith & Aeris

Barret 1 & 2

Red XIII 1 & 2

Also is Marlene from Midgar 1 an orphan again? Is Marlene in Midgar 2 gonna have Barret daddies?

Due to how the Whispers basically "Domed" Midgar, I always though that, storytelling wise, the thing that makes the most sense for adding the new timeline in without undoing Anything happening in Part one is thet the party AND MIDGAR went through to a different timeline.

-Zack ends up back at Midgar after the events of Part 1, because that's where Midgar and the Party ended up.

-There aren't copies of the party lying around being complicated, except for Cloud, which would create a dynamic that could lead to serious and interesting developments considering how Cloud 2 could have recovered or be manipulated by Sephiroth.

-Everyone else would have been either never met yet, like Yuffie, Cid, and Vincent, or only existed in Midgar by that time and would likely not have copies, like Tifa, Barret, Aerith, and Potentially Red XIII, no info on how long he was in captivity.

-Jessie could be alive and performing at the Gold Saucer, as an alteration in an event in her life lets her live her dream rather then get involved with Avalanche.

-The status of Midgar's Ceasefire and power dynamic with Wutai would be changed, and potentially set them up for a more even and expanded conflict, allowing better storytelling opportunities.

-Small alterations in the plot moving forward would be justifiable through a slightly alternative lense in a way that Part 1 has difficulty reconciling, like the expanded character personality leading to expanded content.

-Zack is back baby, and so can a ton of characters from Before Crisis and Crisis Core, and them being called back into action could be stirred by Zack going on an alternative journey aided by his connections with the Turks, leading to more interesting developments by the later parts.

I just think it works story wise, and I personally hope this is the direction they go in. I respect that it could be way different, or go basically the same and the stuff we see are teases that go nowhere, but I feel this approach has the best potential for interesting and awesome stuff.


The best way to describe them is "Cute Stamp" and "Even Cuter Stamp" also I am pretty sure the "Even Cuter Stamp" is a border terrier and looks nothing like a Yorkshire Terrier


Fair point! Unfortunately I was going off of the other poster since I have limited cute dog knowledge, but "Timeline Terrier" is even better then Yorkshire, so thanks!
 
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Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Just beat Rufus (well, actually didn't finish because it's too late and I had a shitty Materia loadout for this fight lol). So I'll be done tomorrow.

The highs are incredibly high, but the lows muddy the game quite more than I'd like. Hojo's lab was too long and immersion-breaking (I wish we could have Materia loadouts btw) and I feel that those kinds of "interferences" occur way to often for me to oversight them. Namely this one, the plate tower and the graveyard, but there are also other smaller ones that destroy the pace, especially when the plot demands some urgency.

There also the changes. I think most big changes in the plotand events has been for the worse. The new trail of blood is pretty bad imo, a really short moment with no build-up and, well, actual blood and a resolution to President Shinra that isn't nearly as impactful as it was in the original game, where you find your biggest enemy up to that point in the game simply dead at his desk and never even get to see the killer.

Barret rescuing him from falling (how did he even get there lmao) and then Shinra actually having the upper hand was stupid and not well executed. And then his death... And Barret's.

Jenova's fight was nice. The moment it transitions into the actual JENOVA song is amazing, they nailed that part of the track so much.

Rufus is great. The fight was really fun and his animations and moves really cool. The only thing I didn't love is Dark Nation's design, I prefer the regular hound one (which is amazing). But man, I love how Rufus actually uses him as some sort of weapon almost and support magic for offense and defense. I'm also glad I didn't kill the dog and that Rufus told him to back off lol.

Oh, and Red is perfection. They really nailed him, like all the other main characters.

But yeah, I feel that the whole Whispers thing is a damn huge detriment here, none of their appearances are for the better, quite the opposite. I can't wait for Part 2 to actually be able to make some things change (if S-E really wants that) without having the fucking ghosts kill the pace and suck out all the subtletly of the game. It's so baffling it still surprises me they thought it was a good idea. They really wanted their meta commentary and twist I guess, but man.
 

Mattersnotnow

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,003
The best way to describe them is "Cute Stamp" and "Even Cuter Stamp" also I am pretty sure the "Even Cuter Stamp" is a border terrier and looks nothing like a Yorkshire Terrier

I have no idea about dog's races lol.
Terrier Stamp it is.


Nah. That makes a lot of what happened in the previous timeline inconsequential and if they're a new ...

About they having actually travelled to the Terrier timeline, I don't think I even like the idea. It was just a feeling from way it played out with Marlene sensing her father and all.

But I guess other parts could be different, e.g. Barrett could have died during Shinra's attack of Corel, Tifa could've gone to fight for Wutai for revenge in Shinra, so maybe they don't even come into play or interact with the party at all
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,109
I remember in the first thread someone posted the ending early and it said something like Aerith and Zack sensing each other at the end. But I didn't see it that way at all. Unless I'm blind, there was no reaction from them when they passed by each other.
 

Calliope

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,124
Detroit, MI
The gang as Turks(and Sephiroth):

hioekpq8vay41.jpg
Oh my goodness.

Where are the optional cosmetic costumes Square? I need these and AC skins and Wall Market dresses (and don't scrimp on Barret. You know he'd be wearing one too right along with Miss Cloud in order to save Tifa)
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
Oh my goodness.

Where are the optional cosmetic costumes Square? I need these and AC skins and Wall Market dresses (and don't scrimp on Barret. You know he'd be wearing one too right along with Miss Cloud in order to save Tifa)
It was definitely a missed opportunity to not have unlockable costumes, and I hope for this to either be rectified as aditional ( free or very small fee) content for Part one as a tide-over, or included as a part of the sequel.

I WANT TO PLAY AS DRESS CLOUD THE WHOLE GAME, IS THAT SO WRONG?!?
6dfb6d486b7b7b8bcde0a8b6b7197a29.jpg


Edit: Hell, somebody modded the game already for this and it's PERFECT

 
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JEH

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,220
I remember in the first thread someone posted the ending early and it said something like Aerith and Zack sensing each other at the end. But I didn't see it that way at all. Unless I'm blind, there was no reaction from them when they passed by each other.

Zack does a little smile when he passes by her.

8b6d0fd3f4c442e38e2f2c7bbadc93dad701587f.jpg
 

ActStriker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,545
Beat the game tonight and liked the ending. I like how it's at least trying to take the story in a different direction from the OG FF7.
 

NukeProfessor

Member
Apr 30, 2020
73
Yes, maybe at first they don't know exactly that they have to fight huge Harbinger on the other side. But, Aerith makes it clear in her monologue that they will be changing fate by following Sephiroth into the portal. The party know that they are challenging destiny at that point, prepare for whatever happen.

Even Red XIII says "This could well be her last line of defense, it won't be easy."

Also, before that, Sephiroth says "Destiny comes" when some whispers flying thru. And in her monologue Aerith kinda explains that the whispers are the voices of the planet. So it's not like the party don't know what fighting destiny actually means in this case.
I guess I was dense, lol. I knew that the planet would resist our confrontation with Sephiroth, I didn't expect for it to summon Obsidian Weapon (Whisper Harbinger)
 

tjlee2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,743
I think Kalm will have two events happen now.

-Cloud does his thing.

-Aerith will need to clarify what she knows, which will give the player proper perspective of the current situation as well.

Being vague worked fine at beginning of Ch.17. I think the disconnect will be too big if the party doesn't ask her for information. The end of remake is too major for the cast to just shrug it off. She won't have all the answers, but this is a good opportunity for cleaning up immediate loose ends and get an understanding of what she knows/doesn't know. If it's done well, then great. If it's done poorly, that's still good because then it's taken care of and out of the way, and won't cause pacing issues for rest of the game.
 

Juraash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,349
Okay, so is the general consensus that Cloud basically undid some shit there at the end? Like save Jessie and Biggs and apparently Zack? It's been a long time since I've played Crisis Core, or the original, but my recollection is Zack doesn't make it off that hillside.

Jessie and co. could just be explained as a happy, albeit highly improbable, stroke of luck. The Zack thing is kind of nuts, though.

Anyways, whatever the reality of the end actually is, I did like it and it made me really happy to see some of those characters make it. Talk about an absolute gauntlet of bosses all the way from Shinra tower to the very end. The wait for part two is gonna be a long one.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Okay, so is the general consensus that Cloud basically undid some shit there at the end? Like save Jessie and Biggs and apparently Zack? It's been a long time since I've played Crisis Core, or the original, but my recollection is Zack doesn't make it off that hillside.

Jessie and co. could just be explained as a happy, albeit highly improbable, stroke of luck. The Zack thing is kind of nuts, though.

Anyways, whatever the reality of the end actually is, I did like it and it made me really happy to see some of those characters make it. Talk about an absolute gauntlet of bosses all the way from Shinra tower to the very end. The wait for part two is gonna be a long one.

The consensus seems to be that that stuff is an alternate timeline.
 

NukeProfessor

Member
Apr 30, 2020
73
Just beat Rufus (well, actually didn't finish because it's too late and I had a shitty Materia loadout for this fight lol). So I'll be done tomorrow.

The highs are incredibly high, but the lows muddy the game quite more than I'd like. Hojo's lab was too long and immersion-breaking (I wish we could have Materia loadouts btw) and I feel that those kinds of "interferences" occur way to often for me to oversight them. Namely this one, the plate tower and the graveyard, but there are also other smaller ones that destroy the pace, especially when the plot demands some urgency.

There also the changes. I think most big changes in the plotand events has been for the worse. The new trail of blood is pretty bad imo, a really short moment with no build-up and, well, actual blood and a resolution to President Shinra that isn't nearly as impactful as it was in the original game, where you find your biggest enemy up to that point in the game simply dead at his desk and never even get to see the killer.

Barret rescuing him from falling (how did he even get there lmao) and then Shinra actually having the upper hand was stupid and not well executed. And then his death... And Barret's.

Jenova's fight was nice. The moment it transitions into the actual JENOVA song is amazing, they nailed that part of the track so much.

Rufus is great. The fight was really fun and his animations and moves really cool. The only thing I didn't love is Dark Nation's design, I prefer the regular hound one (which is amazing). But man, I love how Rufus actually uses him as some sort of weapon almost and support magic for offense and defense. I'm also glad I didn't kill the dog and that Rufus told him to back off lol.

Oh, and Red is perfection. They really nailed him, like all the other main characters.

But yeah, I feel that the whole Whispers thing is a damn huge detriment here, none of their appearances are for the better, quite the opposite. I can't wait for Part 2 to actually be able to make some things change (if S-E really wants that) without having the fucking ghosts kill the pace and suck out all the subtletly of the game. It's so baffling it still surprises me they thought it was a good idea. They really wanted their meta commentary and twist I guess, but man.
I dont want to nitpick, but many posters critique of the Whispers, start from the premise that the developers wanted to change the game and then created them as in-game justification. I don't think that's correct, mostly because I thnk Nomura doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks. Plus there are perfectly plausible explantations of the creation of the concept of the Whispers that better tracks with other parts of the FF7 compilation.

Here is a conjecture of the creation of the plot of FF7R.

1. Lifestream Black, Lifestream White. Post OG Sephiroth is describe as infection inside the Lifestream that is corrupting it. That his memetic legacy is infecting people and causing Geostigma.

2. I guess initial LSD high question was "I wonder does time exist in the Lifestream?" After rifting on that the"What if?" scenario of Sephiroth traveling in the past to change the outcome.

3. Cetra don't have to dissolve into the Lifestream, so there must be some method that Gaia uses to protect the Lifestream and prevent Temporal shenanigans.

4. The Lifestream must have some sort of Antibodies (Whispers) and White Blood cells (Harbinger) that prevent disruptions to flow of history.

5. Sephiroth can't be directly stopped by the actions of the whispers. (Aerith: "The cries of these souls don't reach him, they roll off his back"). So the whispers have intervene indirectly to get events back in track.


6. The whispers prevent Sephiroth from making changes big enough to ensure his victory but his presence in the Lifestream was too diluted to directly challenge the Harbinger. He goaded the party into defeating the Harbinger and absorbed the whispers afterwards to restore his power and be fully free of the "Arbiters of fate".

See, a reasonable chain of logic about the new plot elements. It has nothing to do with trolling fans, doesn't express angst about creative constraints, and is an extension of already created lore and adds a twist to the plotline that I could see be interesting to developes.

Let's not make the ending about us the fans. I keep thinking of the song "Your so Vain".
 
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Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,109
Aerith will need to clarify what she knows, which will give the player proper perspective of the current situation as well.

Yeah I was thinking this too. We're gonna spend a long time in Kalm.

Surviving a last stand against an entire army and getting his buddy to safety seems like plenty reason to smile, I'd say (pretty sure that's the actual reason, not awareness of Aerith on an alternate timeline).

Yeah this is what I meant lol. The dude just looked to be in a good mood.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,894
ATL
Ok, so spoilers on the original FF7, so I'll still put my thoughts in spoiler tags. I had a thought:

So, I've been replaying the original FF7, and though I'm fine either way personally, the game was pretty clear that Aerith didn't actually need to die. Her prayers reached the planet and activated the White Materia before she was stabbed by Sephiroth. The team has to go fight Sephiroth because he's preventing holy from acting. If the Remake decides to give you a chance to save Aerith, I honestly don't think it affects the "mission" in the grand scheme, though it affects the narrative and its character moments.
 

NukeProfessor

Member
Apr 30, 2020
73
Yeah I was thinking this too. We're gonna spend a long time in Kalm.



Yeah this is what I meant lol. The dude just looked to be in a good mood.
Instead of a cold open of the Nibelheim flashback while in Kalm, a CG movie of Aerith explaining Jenova and the destruction of the Cetra. She recognizes Jenova in Shinra tower and Red calls her the "calamity from the skies", knowledge I assume he gained from Aerith. Maybe she doesn't know about Sephiroth's exact nature but she knows he is somehow related to Jenova. Cue Cloud taking over the narration and the Nibelheim flashback commences as early tutorial of the game mechanics and gives Sephiroth connection to Jenova.
 

NukeProfessor

Member
Apr 30, 2020
73
Ok, so spoilers on the original FF7, so I'll still put my thoughts in spoiler tags. I had a thought:

So, I've been replaying the original FF7, and though I'm fine either way personally, the game was pretty clear that Aerith didn't actually need to die. Her prayers reached the planet and activated the White Materia before she was stabbed by Sephiroth. The team has to go fight Sephiroth because he's preventing holy from acting. If the Remake decides to give you a chance to save Aerith, I honestly don't think it affects the "mission" in the grand scheme, though it affects the narrative and its character moments.

I agree, plus the way you would really surprise us is to have Sephiroth kill her before she can summon Holy. Now he doesn't have use some of his power to block Holy and he will be convinced that his victory is assured against the party.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
Okay, so is the general consensus that Cloud basically undid some shit there at the end? Like save Jessie and Biggs and apparently Zack? It's been a long time since I've played Crisis Core, or the original, but my recollection is Zack doesn't make it off that hillside.

Jessie and co. could just be explained as a happy, albeit highly improbable, stroke of luck. The Zack thing is kind of nuts, though.

Anyways, whatever the reality of the end actually is, I did like it and it made me really happy to see some of those characters make it. Talk about an absolute gauntlet of bosses all the way from Shinra tower to the very end. The wait for part two is gonna be a long one.
The Biggs waking up scene is on an alternative timeline where they defended the pillar and the plate is still standing, so probably him and Wedge are alive there and Jessie is impossible to tell.
The second theory is that they changed the past, so it's still one timeline.
 

Celestine

Member
Oct 31, 2017
694
Tokyo, Japan
It was definitely a missed opportunity to not have unlockable costumes, and I hope for this to either be rectified as aditional ( free or very small fee) content for Part one as a tide-over, or included as a part of the sequel.

I WANT TO PLAY AS DRESS CLOUD THE WHOLE GAME, IS THAT SO WRONG?!?
6dfb6d486b7b7b8bcde0a8b6b7197a29.jpg


Edit: Hell, somebody modded the game already for this and it's PERFECT



This is the greatest thing. I love it.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Ok, so spoilers on the original FF7, so I'll still put my thoughts in spoiler tags. I had a thought:

So, I've been replaying the original FF7, and though I'm fine either way personally, the game was pretty clear that Aerith didn't actually need to die. Her prayers reached the planet and activated the White Materia before she was stabbed by Sephiroth. The team has to go fight Sephiroth because he's preventing holy from acting. If the Remake decides to give you a chance to save Aerith, I honestly don't think it affects the "mission" in the grand scheme, though it affects the narrative and its character moments.

I agree, plus the way you would really surprise us is to have Sephiroth kill her before she can summon Holy. Now he doesn't have use some of his power to block Holy and he will be convinced that his victory is assured against the party.

You're forgetting that in the OG, Holy wasn't enough to stop Meteor.

Aerith had to take control of the Lifestream from inside it to push Meteor back so Holy can take care of it.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
You're forgetting that in the OG, Holy wasn't enough to stop Meteor.

Aerith had to take control of the Lifestream from inside it to push Meteor back so Holy can take care of it.

This is why I think the ultimate path is that Aerith will survive in the Forgotten Capital (saved by Zack, possibly?) but then will realize she (and possibly the others who have been saved who died on the 'original' timeline) will have to die at the end to manipulate the lifestream and save the day. Basically they realize that by changing the future so much they've created a worse ultimate outcome, and the only way to change that is to undo (redo?) some of the things they undid and changed. This leads to a heart-wrenching goodbye, but it also changes events subtly to be for the better - Cloud doesn't have to feel guilty because it's a heroic sacrifice on her terms and she probably walks off into the afterlife hand-in-hand with Zack as she does in AC, etc.
 
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Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,694
Elysium
Just got the platinum earlier tonight! Took me 111 hours but in my defense I did rewatch so many cutscenes because I just felt like it. Hard mode is by far the biggest challenge in the game and in recent Final Fantasy titles imo. I lost to Sephiroth like 5 times.... it was crazy how hard he was. He just shreds you in seconds and you have low mp to work with because the whispers drain most of it from you. I had 60 mp fighting Sephiroth so there was only a few chances to cast barriers and manawards. My setup was not maxed so maybe that's why but I felt reprieve was required in the final boss fights. While the whispers are extremely easy... if they gang up on you it is GG. I know... I could have used goterdamerrung but I didn't want to chicken out. I found a real challenge in hard mode's final bosses but it's mostly getting the party you want. I always got Aerith- Tifa which is nice but once I retried for more mp and got Barett and he was absolutely useless in the final battle so I restarted for more mp and hoping to get Aerith-Tifa again which I did.

By far the hardest and most annoying thing about hard mode is being ganged up on and stunned. You can't really do anything about it. Case in point here with Abzu in chapter 14 summoning his minions. Better hope Ifrit nukes the place before they all gang up on you. You die extremely fast in hard mode.... the battle with Sephiroth made me sweat more than hell house in terms of how difficult it was.

Glad to have the platinum. Now to get Barett's resolution scene tomorrow probably and finish the assess for 100% playlog and I'll be putting this game deeply engraved in my memory because I will never stop thinking about it. One day i'll probably play it again before part 2 comes out for sure.

Anyway, I saw quite a few people in the OT and in here saying Sephiroth is easy on hard. He was not easy whatsoever. Counterstance can only do so much when he can one shot you with one combo without barrier buffs. Changing elemental weakness forces me to use Aerith a lot and prayer. I guess I didn't max every materia and only the useful ones but still. Pride and Joy boss rush was not harder and Sephiroth feels like a real fight on hard mode.

Time to use gotterdamerung on easy mode to blaze through everything and get Barett's scene! woo
 
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Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
-Jessie could be alive and performing at the Gold Saucer, as an alteration in an event in her life lets her live her dream rather then get involved with Avalanche.

This is my theory on what happened with Jessie on the alternative timeline.
They defended the pillar, she's hurt by what happened to Biggs (leaves her gloves at his desk), her father wakes up (white sparkle magic from Aerith just like Biggs scene), she retires from avalanche as a result and goes back to Gold Saucer.
 

Pollen

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
385
Currently playing through the original game again after I couldn't keep my thoughts out of FF7's world after completing the remake a few days ago. I'm now en route to the next continent!

That said, playing the original again really highlights how much plot and character writing they've added into the remake. I'm actually finding it difficult on how they could possibly adapt the rest of the material unless they're going to be a little bit more faithful to the original's pacing in the succeeding entries.

Since the Avalanche trio was pretty underdeveloped in the original game, literal NPCs with original character models, I am looking forward to see where they all go from here in this remake continuity. Square took from nothing and gave us three pretty lovable characters at the end of the day, I trust that the writers can handle the new content going forward. The original holds up exceptionally well with the HD ports (love the 3x speed for random battles lol), so I'm looking forward to what happens next.
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
This is my theory on what happened with Jessie on the alternative timeline.
They defended the pillar, she's hurt by what happened to Biggs (leaves her gloves at his desk), her father wakes up (white sparkle magic from Aerith just like Biggs scene), she retires from avalanche as a result and goes back to Gold Saucer.
The idea is less that Jessie miraculously survived, and more that alternative timeline Jessie never got involved in the first place.

Basically, the main turning point for Jessie ending up with Avalanche was her dad getting into a coma due to overwork at a Mako facility, which leads her to stay in Midgar and get involved with Barret's Cell. If that didn't happen, she would have stayed at the Gold Saucer instead of heading home, and would have become the actress she always dreamed of without having to bail before her debut.

The tickets in the letter she sends were unused, suggesting her dad got sick immediately around the time she secured the role, so if he didn't, she would have developed into a fine actress and, logically, by the time the party got to her in the gold saucer, she would still be performing, likely with her parents being there for some of the shows.

The crux of the "Party and Midgar end up in Alternate Timeline a few months before OG FFVII Happens" is that anything happening outside of Midgar exists as it was or could have been, while anything existing inside Midgar is replaced by the one in our timeline.

Jessie was with Avalanche for a while, so this key moment being altered would force her out of the city likely around the time Zack would have his last stand, which is canonically a month or two before the start of FFVII, not that harsh a timeframe for her to still be acting at the Gold Saucer.

Long Story Short, the moment would be far enough back that she could be alive or dead in Midgar, but in the new timeline, she would exist as a different person who never got involved with Avalanche as an actress in the Gold Saucer. Old timeline Jessie could still be alive, but that's a mystery for later, New timeline Jessie's plot importance is inconsequential.

God, this speculation is killing me, none of this could happen. I hope the writers are having as much fun figuring this out as we are!
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
The idea is less that Jessie miraculously survived, and more that alternative timeline Jessie never got involved in the first place.

Basically, the main turning point for Jessie ending up with Avalanche was her dad getting into a coma due to overwork at a Mako facility, which leads her to stay in Midgar and get involved with Barret's Cell. If that didn't happen, she would have stayed at the Gold Saucer instead of heading home, and would have become the actress she always dreamed of without having to bail before her debut.

The tickets in the letter she sends were unused, suggesting her dad got sick immediately around the time she secured the role, so if he didn't, she would have developed into a fine actress and, logically, by the time the party got to her in the gold saucer, she would still be performing, likely with her parents being there for some of the shows.

The crux of the "Party and Midgar end up in Alternate Timeline a few months before OG FFVII Happens" is that anything happening outside of Midgar exists as it was or could have been, while anything existing inside Midgar is replaced by the one in our timeline.

Jessie was with Avalanche for a while, so this key moment being altered would force her out of the city likely around the time Zack would have his last stand, which is canonically a month or two before the start of FFVII, not that harsh a timeframe for her to still be acting at the Gold Saucer.

Long Story Short, the moment would be far enough back that she could be alive or dead in Midgar, but in the new timeline, she would exist as a different person who never got involved with Avalanche as an actress in the Gold Saucer. Old timeline Jessie could still be alive, but that's a mystery for later, New timeline Jessie's plot importance is inconsequential.

God, this speculation is killing me, none of this could happen. I hope the writers are having as much fun figuring this out as we are!
I disagree, i think the reason we see her glove on Biggs desk means she did get involved.
 
Jul 15, 2019
66
Oh man, you're in for a treat. The English VO and localization is simply sublime. I haven't played in JPN but I read that the subs match their own languages as well. I did see a few clips in JPN and it was jarring to me, personally.

Because of your comment, I decided to try out the English VO when I started hard mode. But, I had the same reaction you did, just the other way around. So I ended up switching back to Japanese. Nothing against the super well-done localization though. Just, for me personally the Japanese VO sounds much better. Nice of SE to let everyone choose which one they prefer!

On that note, hard mode is an absolute blast! I loved this game on the normal play through, but I'm loving it even more replaying on hard. Is this the first FF to have a hard mode? I guess it isn't if you count that one sphere grid in FFX. Either way, I hope they make hard modes in future FF games too. Having fun using all of the materia I already used in one playthrough is a testament to how good the battle system is. The story feels even more cohesive and full on the second playthrough too.
 

Descendant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,111
So my theory is that the 1st timeline for OG FF7 was the sort of bad ending, or worst case scenario.

The Zack being alive timeline, which I'll call the 3rd timeline should be the happy ending, good ending, or best case scenario. With Zack alive I think Cloud can get over his mental issues a bit easier, Sector 7 might not get destroyed, Zack and Aerith reunite, etc.

Finally the Remake timeline has me most excited, because that's the 2nd timeline...the timeline that anything can happen, and can be the total grey area. A lot of good and uplifting moments that weren't possible before can happen now, but this can also lead to incredibly sad, and dark moments also. To me this timeline has the highest stakes now.
 
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Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
So my theory is that the 1st timeline for OG FF7 was the sort of bad ending, or worst case scenario.

The Zack being alive timeline, which I'll call the 3rd timeline should be the happy ending, good ending, or best case scenario. With Zack alive I think Cloud can get over his mental issues a bit easier, Sector 7 might not get destroyed, Zack and Aerith reunite, etc.

Finally the Remake timeline has me most excited, because that's the 2nd timeline...the timeline that anything can happen, and can be the total grey area. A lot of good and uplifting moments that weren't possible before can happen now, but this can also lead to incredibly sad, and dark moments also. To me this timeline has the highest stakes now.
It didn't get destroyed on the other timeline.

There's one theory that the Remake events have been shifted up by a few months (a calendar is visible), so it's possible they're leaving Midgar at the same time alternate Zack is approaching Midgar.

Can you send me a link to this theory? I want to see how the guy reached that conclusion.
 

Descendant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,111
It didn't get destroyed on the other timeline.



Can you send me a link to this theory? I want to see how the guy reached that conclusion.

In the OG FF7 Storyline and in FF7 Crisis Core Zack trying to drag Cloud into Midgar sets up the beginning of FF7 OG and FF7 Remake.

Zack is supposed to get killed at that point, then Cloud mourns his death, and takes the Buster Sword walking to Midgar, which is before the events of the original story.

So with my Sector 7 theory we dont technically know it wont happen, because the timeline needs to reach that moment in time to see if it does or doesn't. My theory says Zack helps prevents the plate from falling somehow.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837

Thanks. Interesting so that would mean that Avalanche defended the pillar without the help of Zack or Cloud, i find that hard to believe.

So with my theory Sector 7 theory we dont technically know it wont happen, because the timeline needs to reach that moment in time to see if it does or doesn't. My theory says Zack helps prevents the plate from falling somehow.
We do see the residents of sector 7 rebuilding on sectors 6 while the plate is still intact at the end of the game. That's why Biggs is alive, the plate never fell, and probably Jessie is alive as well cause the whispers never blocked her grenade, or she could have died and someone climbed the stairs to grab her gloves as a memento, that's my theory anyway.