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tjlee2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,735
Having been watching the OG in Japanese the last couple of days, it's very apparent that while the quality of the story is obviously intact, the presentation that was ok back then is going to be a notable issue now. The amount of info dump in several major scenes is going to need serious rework to flow well. Character placement during various scenes are also problematic since it's like everyone is chill with everyone all the time. There has already been a bit of moving around for some plot points, but the heavy lifting is yet to come. Not to mention that in the OG you only react with your current party to events, whereas I would guess that the entire roster would be available for almost all major events. That's a lot more reactions to various events to juggle with and to flow properly.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I don't see why not lol Cloud can get his second Madam M experience. We will learn she taught Aerith hand jobs massages. Tbh I still can't believe that was allowed in the game but a bit of blood is suddenly forbidden.

They could spice it up but I feel like changing every final moment that wasn't actually a good end point originally would get annoying. If they really want to save forgotten city then maybeeee ending it after rocket town or temple of the ancients would work. If would have Aerith leaving if they decide to keep that part.

Madam M is a pseudo-sex worker. Aerith is someone you get in a relationship with unless Aerith just does it to experience it once before she dies.

Japan censorship in games is weird.

I think Northern Crater works better for a Part 3 as an endpoint just because it strikes a very ESB tone with the heroes captured, Cloud mind-controlled and missing, Sephiroth with the Black Materia and Aerith dead (potentially in the Remake).

Having been watching the OG in Japanese the last couple of days, it's very apparent that while the quality of the story is obviously intact, the presentation that was ok back then is going to be a notable issue now. The amount of info dump in several major scenes is going to need serious rework to flow well. Character placement during various scenes are also problematic since it's like everyone is chill with everyone all the time. There has already been a bit of moving around for some plot points, but the heavy lifting is yet to come. Not to mention that in the OG you only react with your current party to events, whereas I would guess that the entire roster would be available for almost all major events. That's a lot more reactions to various events to juggle with and to flow properly.

I'm guessing that we won't ever be able to pick out our parties except for filler-chapters.

So maybe Corel Town would be Cloud, Barret and Tifa together for instance.

And Nibelheim will be Cloud, Tifa and Vincent as a group.
 

tjlee2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,735
I'm guessing that we won't ever be able to pick out our parties except for filler-chapters.

So maybe Corel Town would be Cloud, Barret and Tifa together for instance.

And Nibelheim will be Cloud, Tifa and Vincent as a group.

I would think everyone will need to be present for at least forgotten capital and North crater for instance. I think a plot B will likely be in play for a middle section of the next game (or maybe even later) for Wutai and for breaking up the party for gameplay purposes, but I think with how much they obviously value character interaction (and I'm very happy for it) that they would want everyone together as much as possible. Due to the nature of the OG the inter-character relationships were extremely bare-bone, even more so than I remembered. Characters were largely non-participants outside of their mini-arcs, especially with each other (minus Cloud).
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I would think everyone will need to be present for at least forgotten capital and North crater for instance. I think a plot B will likely be in play for a middle section of the next game (or maybe even later) for Wutai and for breaking up the party for gameplay purposes, but I think with how much they obviously value character interaction (and I'm very happy for it) that they would want everyone together as much as possible. Due to the nature of the OG the inter-character relationships were extremely bare-bone, even more so than I remembered. Characters were largely non-participants outside of their mini-arcs, especially with each other (minus Cloud).

We should see some emphasis on some of the weirder relationships too.

I'd love to see Vincent and Aerith interact. Vincent knew Professor Gast so he could tell Aerith more about her father.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,482
Looking through the artbook, the concept art for the Sector 5 slums was more interesting than what they actually went with in the final game.
 
OP
OP
Quinton

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,255
Midgar, With Love
I think Northern Crater works better for a Part 3 as an endpoint just because it strikes a very ESB tone with the heroes captured, Cloud mind-controlled and missing, Sephiroth with the Black Materia and Aerith dead (potentially in the Remake).

Aye, this is what I've been saying. I hadn't referenced ESB, though — good connection there.
 

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,765
Of all the things I could be worried about, Vincent isn't one of them. My good goth boi is coming back better than ever, BELIEVE
 

Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,973
NJ
Finally just finished it.

So if I'm reading this correctly, we're on the side of destiny and Sephiroth is trying to change it? But even though unfortunate things happen, we want things to go the way the planet wills because we're all a part of it in the end?

Even though I am not a Nomura fan, there are a lot of people involved in this remake and a lot of the execution is on point, so I'll try to stay hopeful. I read spoilers beforehand and I'm glad I did, because I think I would have been super disappointed in the ending otherwise and kept my expectations low.

I really dislike how they finished the Shinra Building. I was relieved they left the trail of blood (although purple and glowing, but Jenova is different anyway) but meeting President Shinra and have him give this long melodramatic speech was the most anticlimactic thing ever. Was a million times better finding him slumped over his desk with a sword in his back. Way more impact. And pulling up someone who's about to fall was done how many hundreds of times in this game? I started to eyeroll every time it happened. And the whole "we won't kill the president after all bc we're the good guys" thing before running over rows of people with a motorcycle made me laugh too. Also, Sephiroth EVERYWHERE. Less is more, SE. He's more annoying than menacing in this game, which is sad because the OG's buildup was so well done.

Also wtf is up with Rufus' outfit, it's so bad it's actually offensive. It's like he's wearing a shredded skirt, but upon closer examination it seemed he's just hanging his entire belt collection from his waist. Nomura plz.

Ending dialogue was also very contrived and cheesy.

But I did enjoy the game as a whole and seeing it all come alive and fleshed out in ways was really nice. I loved climbing up to Midgar, some beautiful sights and it was enough to give me vertigo. I enjoyed the way they built up Wall Market and some of the little interesting side touches like the orphanage teacher who you find out is a dancer at the Honeybee Inn (actually the entire Honeybee Inn was just amazing, managed to be way better than the OG), Leslie, and seeing life a bit above side the plate.

Turks' characterizations were great and well acted, and I played with English voices and thought the localization was well done. A lot of the translations took dry conversations and gave them personality. I'm really looking forward to the next installment.
I played in Japanese first to avoid most of this. My hard playthrough I can enjoy the english version without such a critical eye. Really helped the story feel epic.

Only really agree here with Sephiroth showing up too much. Indeed less is more, and I thought it was much more menacing finding the president with a sword in its back and blood on walls etc...

Sephiroth almost feels like he's annoying Cloud lol, but that amazing fight at the end restores how powerful he is. Also, he's more of a guiding force than an evil incarnate kinda and truly seems somewhat interested in Cloud. Again, Japanese VO his voice is a lot more emotionally aloof and wandering.
 

Mansa Mufasa

Member
Jun 17, 2019
1,349
Toronto
The Lifestream.

When Sephiroth died in the finale of the OG, he sort of became part of the Lifestream but also not part of it. He slowly corrupted it into achieving partial control. That's in Advent Children and in the short stories of " On the Way to a Smile".

So timelines split when Sephiroth went back in time and manipulated the party into destroying the Arbiters of Fate which kept everyone's destiny on one track.

Like I'm so back and forth on this. On one hand it's kind of cool that this doesn't invalidate the OG. I like that the Remake is being treated like a new timeline to explain certain differences. On the other hand. I didn't ask for this lol
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,857
I wonder why they touched on mako shortening then life span of SOLDIERS so briefly early in the game, only to never address it again. Is that going to be a plot point in a future installment?
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,591
I wonder why they touched on mako shortening then life span of SOLDIERS so briefly early in the game, only to never address it again. Is that going to be a plot point in a future installment?
Just remember a character's reaction to that line in the scene where they mention it and you'll get some idea of how it fits in the future.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,591
so Tifa seems concerned, so it might come into play later when Cloud falls into the lifestream? I don't know, I'm dumb. Tell me! Lol
Cloud doesn't have the degeneration since he has Sephiroth cells but the characters don't know that. Its also there to give players info about how maybe SOLDIER ain't what it's cracked up to be and probably also to add some drama.
 

Celestine

Member
Oct 31, 2017
694
Tokyo, Japan
I played in Japanese first to avoid most of this. My hard playthrough I can enjoy the english version without such a critical eye. Really helped the story feel epic.

Only really agree here with Sephiroth showing up too much. Indeed less is more, and I thought it was much more menacing finding the president with a sword in its back and blood on walls etc...

Sephiroth almost feels like he's annoying Cloud lol, but that amazing fight at the end restores how powerful he is. Also, he's more of a guiding force than an evil incarnate kinda and truly seems somewhat interested in Cloud. Again, Japanese VO his voice is a lot more emotionally aloof and wandering.

Unfortunately, I can't stop being critical by listening to the Japanese because I can understand it. I actually prefer the English voices slightly. The Japanese voices are fairly stock overacted anime, although big budget anime, and all the girls sound so breathy which is a pet peeve of mine. They're not bad as far as all that goes, and I've been rewatching some of the scenes in Japanese on Youtube after I finish them in the actual game in English. My game text is Japanese though and it's interesting to read the Japanese subs juxtaposed with the English voices. I like to see exactly how they handled the localization. I like the English dialogue. The Japanese dialogue is often very plain and straightforward, while the English usually adds a smidgeon of spice so things don't sound so rote. I do prefer Sephiroth in Japanese, deep and a bit lingering. I much prefer Zack's Japanese voice too. I thought he sounded like Sonic the Hedgehog or something in English. It took me aback.

I didn't care much for the final fight. Would have liked for it to end on a more grounded tone that set the stage for developments to come, rather than throwing it all in your face. The game had narrative development and pacing problems which concern me a bit for future installments.

Also, I would have liked the "This has happened before and this is a secret sequel" thing if it hadn't already been done lately. This is the new popular thing in anime lately, and it feels creatively bankrupt.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,988
Finished my third full playthrough the other day. First was on Normal, second on Hard, and this one on Easy. I'll give Classic mode a chance next. I can't put this game down no matter how much I dread turning off giant light bulbs. I love it all.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,857
Cloud doesn't have the degeneration since he has Sephiroth cells but the characters don't know that. Its also there to give players info about how maybe SOLDIER ain't what it's cracked up to be and probably also to add some drama.

ooh yeah, duh. I have a hard time remembering details like that
 

tjlee2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,735
We should see some emphasis on some of the weirder relationships too.

I'd love to see Vincent and Aerith interact. Vincent knew Professor Gast so he could tell Aerith more about her father.

Yeah, outside of a few instances, I think most characters would have pretty interesting interactions with each other. Of course, Aerith is particular interest due to her importance but in my headcanon she can easily form quirky relationships with all the cast. Her interaction with Yuffie has a ton of potential as well. Any scenario where a character has to deal with loss, Barret and Tifa can also emphasize with easily. This is also why I'm hoping that you get the full party not too late into the next game, but they will need to move events around a little for that to happen, so it might not be doable.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,591
There's a big level design flaw under the collapsed highway in chapter 9 where you can skip a little cutscene and miss out on a vending machine/bench because they put a ladder before reaching it that I've noticed a lot of people go straight for.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,236
There's a big level design flaw under the collapsed highway in chapter 9 where you can skip a little cutscene and miss out on a vending machine/bench because they put a ladder before reaching it that I've noticed a lot of people go straight for.
Aerith complains if you go down the ladder without going the other way first.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
Well Cloud's immune to degradation so I expect the story to reveal to us directly that he doesn't have Jenova Cells, he specifically has Sephiroth Cells.

Cloud doesn't have the degeneration since he has Sephiroth cells but the characters don't know that. Its also there to give players info about how maybe SOLDIER ain't what it's cracked up to be and probably also to add some drama.

Does it say specifically in the Ultimania that Cloud is the only one that receives Sephiroth cells?
I remember reading somewhere that all the numbered experiments received as well, and they all suffer from some sort of cellular degradation.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,591
Does it say specifically in the Ultimania that Cloud is the only one that receives Sephiroth cells?
I remember reading somewhere that all the numbered experiments received as well, and they all suffer from some sort of cellular degradation.
Zack got it too and the numbers I guess are imperfect, they aren't Soldiers just regular people with cells injected in them.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Does it say specifically in the Ultimania that Cloud is the only one that receives Sephiroth cells?
I remember reading somewhere that all the numbered experiments received as well, and they all suffer from some sort of cellular degradation.

It just says that Zack and Cloud are S Types and that degradation does not affect S types.





Project G SOLDIERs are the only ones that degrade.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
EX0ciFvU8AIuMDu


Here's a fan-made chart on what the Ultimania says about the hierachy.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
Zack got it too and the numbers I guess are imperfect, they aren't Soldiers just regular people with cells injected in them.
Doesn't the child in remake said the number 2 used to be a soldier?
I believe it affects people differently, Zack even resisted the experiment.
It just says that Zack and Cloud are S Types and that degradation does not affect S types.





Project G SOLDIERs are the only ones that degrade.

i know this, but Hojo didn't work on project G.
And the numbered experiments were Hojo experiments for the Reunion theory, same as Cloud. And they clearly suffer from something.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Doesn't the child in remake said the number 2 used to be a soldier?
I believe it affects people differently, Zack even resisted the experiment.

i know this, but Hojo didn't work on project G.
And the numbered experiments were Hojo experiments for the Reunion theory, same as Cloud. And they clearly suffer from something.

That's not cellular degradation though. Cellular degradation just means short lives.

They're not so much degrading as Sephiroth as the procedure left them unable to retain their egos unlike Zack or Cloud.


After the events of the Nibelheim Incident, Professor Hojo rounded up the survivors of Sephiroth's rampage, with the exception of Tifa Lockhart who was rescued by Zangan before Shinra's arrival. He injected them with Jenova cells and exposed them to mako energy, similar, if not identical, to the creation of a SOLDIER. Those not the finest in physical and mental health, and thus could not retain their personalities, became shades of Jenova. Since Jenova was a puppet of Sephiroth, the Clones also became fanatics who would do anything for their master.

Those who turned into mindless slaves were tattooed with a number somewhere on their body, but those who failed and kept some shred of their ego were left to die. Cloud Strife's status, had Zack Fair not intervened and rescued him from the Shinra Manor, is debatable. Zack, also a Sephiroth-clone, was a complete failure: he was not mentally affected by the experiment due to previously being unaffected by the identical SOLDIER procedure.

IDK what happened with the SOLDIER in the Remake so maybe some of them can turn mindless if their egos weaken.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,900
Sorry if this has been answered, any ideas on what Sephiroth meant with the "you have 7 seconds to decide" when he was at the edge of creation? It almost sounded like Cloud was being given a choice to rewrite events as they happened but ... really not sure
 

Normanski 2.0

Member
Nov 21, 2017
3,261
Yuffie and Vincent should be interesting.

I'd imagine Yuffie will be given a huge role in part 2 due to the big Wutai story (I'm going with the Remake/ Rebirth/Reunion theory for the naming of future releases).

Sorry if this has been answered, any ideas on what Sephiroth meant with the "you have 7 seconds to decide" when he was at the edge of creation? It almost sounded like Cloud was being given a choice to rewrite events as they happened but ... really not sure

It's seven seconds until Meteor hits. I think it's mentioned in the chapter selection?
 

Deleted member 6263

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,387
Sorry if this has been answered, any ideas on what Sephiroth meant with the "you have 7 seconds to decide" when he was at the edge of creation? It almost sounded like Cloud was being given a choice to rewrite events as they happened but ... really not sure
I know it's not this, but when I first heard him say that "you have 7 seconds" stuff, it immediately made me think of that thing where it takes 7 seconds for someone to make a good impression on you. Almost as if, Sephiroth was asking me, the player, whether this whole last bit of the game left a good or bad impression on me.

Again, totally not what you're looking for but who knowssssss.
 

JEH

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,207
Sorry if this has been answered, any ideas on what Sephiroth meant with the "you have 7 seconds to decide" when he was at the edge of creation? It almost sounded like Cloud was being given a choice to rewrite events as they happened but ... really not sure

Sephiorth showed cloud 7 seconds before meteor hits.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,900
Sephiorth showed cloud 7 seconds before meteor hits.

mmmm, yeah, that completely flew over my head, I should rewatch that part. I was like OH THEY DEFEATED FATE AND THIS IS THE REAL SEPHIROTH MAYBE AND WHY DOES HE HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE WHAT DOES IT MEAN OH NOTHING HAPPENED WHY IS ZACK HERE
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
That's not cellular degradation though. Cellular degradation just means short lives.

They're not so much degrading as Sephiroth as the procedure left them unable to retain their egos unlike Zack or Cloud.




IDK what happened with the SOLDIER in the Remake so maybe some of them can turn mindless if their egos weaken.

They look really sick for someone with just no ego of their own.
I just think it affects everyone differently.
Some are mindless husks that are just Sephiroth puppets, other like Zack flat out resist it and there's no changes, and Cloud is the exception where on the way to becoming this mindless husks his body went through a mutation of some sorts and he became what he is.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,685
Elysium
Found some new translated details from here.. not sure if it was posted: https://game8.co/games/Final-Fantasy-VII-Remake/archives/287205

So they had to censor Jenova even if they didn't want to, the two additional scenes if Corneo picked Tifa and Aerith were sacrificed for a Tifa and Aerith section we got in the final game. I don't mind the change as I loved that section but imo they should have left them in as a trophy instead of the abysmal dressed to the nines trophy we got lol. Originally, Tifa would have not hugged Cloud in her resolution scene..... hah makes me really feel the devs intend the Aerith one as canon based on the whole "you can't tell it is real or a dream" Her words hold a lot of weight, etc.

They also go over the reason we don't go to the Avalanche hideout.... makes sense actually! Not bothered by the removal anymore. And of course the blood trail (red) was removed due to age rating.

Searching For the Right Way to Express Elements of the Original in the Modern Day

When you compare society now to when the original came out 23 years ago a lot has changed, did this have any effect on the story for the remake?

Toriyama:
With the improvement of graphics, things like character's facial expressions become more realistic, and how much of that you depict, or don't, becomes something you need to take into consideration. For example, when the original came out we were all pretty young and things like "Is it really right to destroy the Mako Reactors to save the planet?" didn't really cross our minds at all. However with the remake, a lot of things have happened in the real world, so we as the developers have a responsibility to figure out how to make things relate as well as how far to go. In the original there aren't a lot of other NPCs around in Sector 8 so you only meet Aerith, but in the remake we added more people. Showing the player how destroying the Sector 1 Mako Reactor affected the people of Sector 8 was something I felt was important so we added it in.

Does this also relate to how there's a new plot point where Shinra is using Avalanche's actions against them?

Toriyama:
That's right. With how the story flows we can't change the fact that Barret and the others are destroying the Mako Reactors, but we could add in that they're being used by Shinra to help soften their more extremist image.

It's also believed that the scene at the Honeybee Inn was changed to reflect the changes in society.

Toriyama:
That's also true. The way games are rated has changed since the original, so from the beginning one thing we wanted to do was expand on the Honeybee Inn as well as Wall Market as a whole. We figured that if we were going to be changing it up, we may as well boost the entertainment factor and added in the dancing mini-game. The sort of sexy route that was at the Honeybee Inn in the original got moved to Madam M's portion.

Was the hand massage bit also hard to get past the rating check?

Toriyama:
The way ratings are handled are different for each country so trying to make sure everything would be acceptable in any region was difficult, but thanks to the internal checks we started doing early on, I think we managed to get it just right without going too far.

At the beginning of Chapter 14 there's a scene that occurs in the flower garden with one of your party members that's like the date scene from the original.

Toriyama:
The date scene that happened in the Golden Saucer in the original is something we couldn't removed from FFVII when retelling the story so we decided to try and add in a similar event based on the events that occured up to that point.


Hamaguchi: These events are actually called Resolutions and this time who you get the scene with is dependent on the quests that you do to raise the party's affection with Cloud.


Toriyama: While not strictly a "date", per se, I wanted to include a scene like this that would live up to the fan's expectations. For this reason, in the scene with Aerith you can't tell if it's a dream or reality and her words carry a lot of weight. For Tifa's scene, in the script I first wrote I had planned for Cloud to stop hugging Tifa quickly, but Kazushige Nojima told me "They're young so we can leave it as is," so we ended it with the hug.


Hamaguchi: We even did the motion capture without the hug but redid it to reflect the change.




Hamaguchi: This time the game is being released worldwide on the same day, so making sure that there wasn't anything that might be hurtful to other culture's took a lot of time.


Toriyama: Something more difficult for the rating check was actually Jenova. We all thought "Well she's not human so it should be fine, right?", but the fact that she was both naked and headless ended up being a bit of an issue. To rectify this, we added a mecha-type thing to her head and made it so she was covered up when Sephiroth was carrying her in the Shinra Building. Jenova is a pretty big part of Final Fantasy VII so I didn't actually want to change it, though...


Hamaguchi: Lines regarding human experimenation would also run into trouble so we had to make more changes there.


Toriyama: But if we changed the fact that SOLDIER are a result of human experimenting done by Shinra, then the game stops being FFVII, so we really pushed for that to stay unchanged.


Hamaguchi: We also really wanted to leave the blood trail that was left behind by Jenova, but in order to keep a lower age rating we couldn't use red blood. Instead we chose to use a purple magma-like substance that has more of a fantasy feel yet still leaves that feeling of unease. We worked really hard and ended up getting that checked about 5 or 6 times before we got the okay. There were a lot of times we had to think about the current day ratings while figuring out how to adapt elements of the original.

There's also the scene where Scarlet puts her legs up on a Shinra Troop on all fours that had a pretty strong impact.

Toriyama:
We wanted to show Scarlet's sadistic personality through that one scene so we had her use her underling as a leg rest. What would be considered power harassment by today's standards seems to be totally fine with people who work for Shinra (laughs). Behavior like this that gets totally overlooked might also be the result of Shinra's abusive dictatorship. The poor Shinra Troop on the ground might be fulfilling their duties as a loyal underling to their superior.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
Found some new translated details from here.. not sure if it was posted: https://game8.co/games/Final-Fantasy-VII-Remake/archives/287205

So they had to censor Jenova even if they didn't want to, the two additional scenes if Corneo picked Tifa and Aerith were sacrificed for a Tifa and Aerith section we got in the final game. I don't mind the change as I loved that section but imo they should have left them in as a trophy instead of the abysmal dressed to the nines trophy we got lol. Originally, Tifa would have not hugged Cloud in her resolution scene..... hah makes me really feel the devs intend the Aerith one as canon based on the whole "you can't tell it is real or a dream" Her words hold a lot of weight, etc.

They also go over the reason we don't go to the Avalanche hideout.... makes sense actually! Not bothered by the removal anymore. And of course the blood trail (red) was removed due to age rating.

Searching For the Right Way to Express Elements of the Original in the Modern Day

When you compare society now to when the original came out 23 years ago a lot has changed, did this have any effect on the story for the remake?

Toriyama:
With the improvement of graphics, things like character's facial expressions become more realistic, and how much of that you depict, or don't, becomes something you need to take into consideration. For example, when the original came out we were all pretty young and things like "Is it really right to destroy the Mako Reactors to save the planet?" didn't really cross our minds at all. However with the remake, a lot of things have happened in the real world, so we as the developers have a responsibility to figure out how to make things relate as well as how far to go. In the original there aren't a lot of other NPCs around in Sector 8 so you only meet Aerith, but in the remake we added more people. Showing the player how destroying the Sector 1 Mako Reactor affected the people of Sector 8 was something I felt was important so we added it in.

Does this also relate to how there's a new plot point where Shinra is using Avalanche's actions against them?

Toriyama:
That's right. With how the story flows we can't change the fact that Barret and the others are destroying the Mako Reactors, but we could add in that they're being used by Shinra to help soften their more extremist image.

It's also believed that the scene at the Honeybee Inn was changed to reflect the changes in society.

Toriyama:
That's also true. The way games are rated has changed since the original, so from the beginning one thing we wanted to do was expand on the Honeybee Inn as well as Wall Market as a whole. We figured that if we were going to be changing it up, we may as well boost the entertainment factor and added in the dancing mini-game. The sort of sexy route that was at the Honeybee Inn in the original got moved to Madam M's portion.

Was the hand massage bit also hard to get past the rating check?

Toriyama:
The way ratings are handled are different for each country so trying to make sure everything would be acceptable in any region was difficult, but thanks to the internal checks we started doing early on, I think we managed to get it just right without going too far.

At the beginning of Chapter 14 there's a scene that occurs in the flower garden with one of your party members that's like the date scene from the original.

Toriyama:
The date scene that happened in the Golden Saucer in the original is something we couldn't removed from FFVII when retelling the story so we decided to try and add in a similar event based on the events that occured up to that point.


Hamaguchi: These events are actually called Resolutions and this time who you get the scene with is dependent on the quests that you do to raise the party's affection with Cloud.


Toriyama: While not strictly a "date", per se, I wanted to include a scene like this that would live up to the fan's expectations. For this reason, in the scene with Aerith you can't tell if it's a dream or reality and her words carry a lot of weight. For Tifa's scene, in the script I first wrote I had planned for Cloud to stop hugging Tifa quickly, but Kazushige Nojima told me "They're young so we can leave it as is," so we ended it with the hug.


Hamaguchi: We even did the motion capture without the hug but redid it to reflect the change.




Hamaguchi: This time the game is being released worldwide on the same day, so making sure that there wasn't anything that might be hurtful to other culture's took a lot of time.


Toriyama: Something more difficult for the rating check was actually Jenova. We all thought "Well she's not human so it should be fine, right?", but the fact that she was both naked and headless ended up being a bit of an issue. To rectify this, we added a mecha-type thing to her head and made it so she was covered up when Sephiroth was carrying her in the Shinra Building. Jenova is a pretty big part of Final Fantasy VII so I didn't actually want to change it, though...


Hamaguchi: Lines regarding human experimenation would also run into trouble so we had to make more changes there.


Toriyama: But if we changed the fact that SOLDIER are a result of human experimenting done by Shinra, then the game stops being FFVII, so we really pushed for that to stay unchanged.


Hamaguchi: We also really wanted to leave the blood trail that was left behind by Jenova, but in order to keep a lower age rating we couldn't use red blood. Instead we chose to use a purple magma-like substance that has more of a fantasy feel yet still leaves that feeling of unease. We worked really hard and ended up getting that checked about 5 or 6 times before we got the okay. There were a lot of times we had to think about the current day ratings while figuring out how to adapt elements of the original.

There's also the scene where Scarlet puts her legs up on a Shinra Troop on all fours that had a pretty strong impact.

Toriyama:
We wanted to show Scarlet's sadistic personality through that one scene so we had her use her underling as a leg rest. What would be considered power harassment by today's standards seems to be totally fine with people who work for Shinra (laughs). Behavior like this that gets totally overlooked might also be the result of Shinra's abusive dictatorship. The poor Shinra Troop on the ground might be fulfilling their duties as a loyal underling to their superior.
I hope they make the decision to go for M rating even at the cost of sales to make a better product on future parts.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,685
Elysium
I hope they make the decision to go for M rating even at the cost of sales to make a better product on future parts.

It would be nice to see but I just dont think it will happen. Midgar already had gruesome stuff like bombing and killing innocent people. It only gets worse later with Tifa in the gas chamber, Corel and Dyne, Cloud beating Aerith while controlled by Sephiroth, etc. If they didn't make the decision now then I just don't see it unfortunately.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,546
Just made it through Chapter 16... in the Shinra Divisions exhibit, does the Neo Midgar prototype photo kind of look like the Gardens in Final Fantasy VIII to anyone else?

Same exhibit further connects VII to X with the Shinra OG board photo... are they trying to tie it to VIII as well?
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
It would be nice to see but I just dont think it will happen. Midgar already had gruesome stuff like bombing and killing innocent people. It only gets worse later with Tifa in the gas chamber, Corel and Dyne, Cloud beating Aerith while controlled by Sephiroth, etc. If they didn't make the decision now then I just don't see it unfortunately.
Yeah, i agree. But the lack of blood on fight and death scenes really bothered me. I hope with money on the bank from the first part gives them more leeway to take more risks.
 

SpecDot

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
988
I'd imagine Yuffie will be given a huge role in part 2 due to the big Wutai story (I'm going with the Remake/ Rebirth/Reunion theory for the naming of future releases).
With the amount of times they mention Wutai, yeah. Can't wait to see how they recreate Corneo hanging Yuffie and Elena from Mt. Wutai and how they'll have you manage with Yuffie stealing your materia.
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,038
In the middle of Chapter 12 now..

WEDGE gets to survive but not Jessie? Wedge?!

I am so gotten to right now. Argh.
 
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ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
Yeah, i agree. But the lack of blood on fight and death scenes really bothered me. I hope with money on the bank from the first part gives them more leeway to take more risks.

The problem isn't SE's cash flow, they're very rich. The problem is if the potential lost revenue that a higher rating would give them. You gotta remember, when we're talking about a game like this that can sell upwards of 10 million copies, losing even 1% of your audience due to the age rating would cost them alot of money.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,482
Found some new translated details from here.. not sure if it was posted: https://game8.co/games/Final-Fantasy-VII-Remake/archives/287205

So they had to censor Jenova even if they didn't want to, the two additional scenes if Corneo picked Tifa and Aerith were sacrificed for a Tifa and Aerith section we got in the final game. I don't mind the change as I loved that section but imo they should have left them in as a trophy instead of the abysmal dressed to the nines trophy we got lol. Originally, Tifa would have not hugged Cloud in her resolution scene..... hah makes me really feel the devs intend the Aerith one as canon based on the whole "you can't tell it is real or a dream" Her words hold a lot of weight, etc.

They also go over the reason we don't go to the Avalanche hideout.... makes sense actually! Not bothered by the removal anymore. And of course the blood trail (red) was removed due to age rating.

Searching For the Right Way to Express Elements of the Original in the Modern Day

When you compare society now to when the original came out 23 years ago a lot has changed, did this have any effect on the story for the remake?

Toriyama:
With the improvement of graphics, things like character's facial expressions become more realistic, and how much of that you depict, or don't, becomes something you need to take into consideration. For example, when the original came out we were all pretty young and things like "Is it really right to destroy the Mako Reactors to save the planet?" didn't really cross our minds at all. However with the remake, a lot of things have happened in the real world, so we as the developers have a responsibility to figure out how to make things relate as well as how far to go. In the original there aren't a lot of other NPCs around in Sector 8 so you only meet Aerith, but in the remake we added more people. Showing the player how destroying the Sector 1 Mako Reactor affected the people of Sector 8 was something I felt was important so we added it in.

Does this also relate to how there's a new plot point where Shinra is using Avalanche's actions against them?

Toriyama:
That's right. With how the story flows we can't change the fact that Barret and the others are destroying the Mako Reactors, but we could add in that they're being used by Shinra to help soften their more extremist image.

It's also believed that the scene at the Honeybee Inn was changed to reflect the changes in society.

Toriyama:
That's also true. The way games are rated has changed since the original, so from the beginning one thing we wanted to do was expand on the Honeybee Inn as well as Wall Market as a whole. We figured that if we were going to be changing it up, we may as well boost the entertainment factor and added in the dancing mini-game. The sort of sexy route that was at the Honeybee Inn in the original got moved to Madam M's portion.

Was the hand massage bit also hard to get past the rating check?

Toriyama:
The way ratings are handled are different for each country so trying to make sure everything would be acceptable in any region was difficult, but thanks to the internal checks we started doing early on, I think we managed to get it just right without going too far.

At the beginning of Chapter 14 there's a scene that occurs in the flower garden with one of your party members that's like the date scene from the original.

Toriyama:
The date scene that happened in the Golden Saucer in the original is something we couldn't removed from FFVII when retelling the story so we decided to try and add in a similar event based on the events that occured up to that point.


Hamaguchi: These events are actually called Resolutions and this time who you get the scene with is dependent on the quests that you do to raise the party's affection with Cloud.


Toriyama: While not strictly a "date", per se, I wanted to include a scene like this that would live up to the fan's expectations. For this reason, in the scene with Aerith you can't tell if it's a dream or reality and her words carry a lot of weight. For Tifa's scene, in the script I first wrote I had planned for Cloud to stop hugging Tifa quickly, but Kazushige Nojima told me "They're young so we can leave it as is," so we ended it with the hug.


Hamaguchi: We even did the motion capture without the hug but redid it to reflect the change.




Hamaguchi: This time the game is being released worldwide on the same day, so making sure that there wasn't anything that might be hurtful to other culture's took a lot of time.


Toriyama: Something more difficult for the rating check was actually Jenova. We all thought "Well she's not human so it should be fine, right?", but the fact that she was both naked and headless ended up being a bit of an issue. To rectify this, we added a mecha-type thing to her head and made it so she was covered up when Sephiroth was carrying her in the Shinra Building. Jenova is a pretty big part of Final Fantasy VII so I didn't actually want to change it, though...


Hamaguchi: Lines regarding human experimenation would also run into trouble so we had to make more changes there.


Toriyama: But if we changed the fact that SOLDIER are a result of human experimenting done by Shinra, then the game stops being FFVII, so we really pushed for that to stay unchanged.


Hamaguchi: We also really wanted to leave the blood trail that was left behind by Jenova, but in order to keep a lower age rating we couldn't use red blood. Instead we chose to use a purple magma-like substance that has more of a fantasy feel yet still leaves that feeling of unease. We worked really hard and ended up getting that checked about 5 or 6 times before we got the okay. There were a lot of times we had to think about the current day ratings while figuring out how to adapt elements of the original.

There's also the scene where Scarlet puts her legs up on a Shinra Troop on all fours that had a pretty strong impact.

Toriyama:
We wanted to show Scarlet's sadistic personality through that one scene so we had her use her underling as a leg rest. What would be considered power harassment by today's standards seems to be totally fine with people who work for Shinra (laughs). Behavior like this that gets totally overlooked might also be the result of Shinra's abusive dictatorship. The poor Shinra Troop on the ground might be fulfilling their duties as a loyal underling to their superior.
Hm, hideout explanation doesn't work for me. Cloud had become less distant from the group after helping Jessie and the others raid the Shinra facility, so either having him able to finally go there before taking Jessie's place on the Sector 5 bombing run or otherwise showing the hideout while following Tifa could've been feasible. Still bothered by the omission, but ultimately a more minor nitpick.

Seems I was right in believing that ratings restrictions were to blame for Shinra HQ event changes (saying screw it and having the whole project be made to M-rating standards to minimize compromises would've been nice, but I knew I had no reason to think they would).