I need to rewatch Advent Children to understand its connection to Remake, but that would involve rewatching Advent Children. I suppose I should give the Complete version a chance, since I only rented the original version on DVD back in the day.
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Final Fantasy VII Remake Spoilers Thread, Part 2: Stay Kalm & Mosey Along (UPDATE: Ultimania’s list of four key story changes)
- Thread starter Quinton
- Start date
I was considering this myself. Not sure what the complete version adds besides the extended Sephiroth fight though.
It adds quite a bit of character development. More flash-backs, Cloud "speaking" with Zack, stuff like that.
Character development, better plot explanation, battle scenes, Cloud and Zack talking and Denzel backstory actually telling you who the hell he is to Cloud and Tifa.
It's 25 minutes of extra cutscenes.
That's good to know. I remember watching the theatrical cut back in the day and not being able to really understand anything that was going on. All I can recollect are vague memories of the action sequences, which immediately came to mind while playing Remake.
COMPLETE is significantly better I think. It may be hard to find though a blu-ray though. I think I saw it for rent on youtube. It has some really fun and cool moments. People seem to not like Cloud's mopey attitude in the movie but I don't think it's too far off considering the loss of Aerith eventually eating away at him.
If they're not using Linkin Park's Meteora or Hybrid Theory why even bother?
Zack's death, Aerith's death and also don't forget he had incurable fantasy cancer while his unofficially adopted son also has the same incurable cancer.
you're gonna have to explain this, i'm obviously not initiated into this meme
OH, lol. got it. Cloud's Denzil was also sick. And he had geostigma. I got it. I'm in the club now
Yeah, but if she's willing to listen to the planet why go against the whispers? But if it's something else or someone else telling her to follow the flowers....
Yeah but where in the lifestream is the promised land? Is every part of the lifestream considered the promised land? Or is it somewhere out there in the universe?
I still remember taking 3 days downloading a FF7 AMV that had Papercut as the song off of Kazaa. It was incredible.
I made the case earlier that the party have constantly gone against the Planet, even in OG. They fight WEAPONs, like ULTIMA and DIAMOND, etc. I don't think Aerith thinks of the planet as her master. I think there is a relationship there, perhaps of give and take, agreement and disagreement. See If the Whispers are "Voices of the Planet" as the game states, why are we fighting them? Aren't we fighting for the Planet?
About the promised land, I think it's meant to be vague and abstract, because it is a 'spiritual' location and not some physical location you could point to. It's a realm, a state of being. That is where Aerith is at the end of the game and where she summons the Lifestream to help assist Holy.
I finally finished FF7 remake a few days ago, and I needed a few days to digest what happened. Been looking at reaction and a few spoiler videos on youtube. I still don't know how I feel about it. My rational mind really loved a lot of things about this game. I liked the production value, and the care that just went into every aspect of this game. The combat on paper sounds fun, and should have been fun. However my gamer side...just did not have fun while playing it a lot of the time. I was bored with the gameplay at a lot of times. The story was also dragged out to the point it was pushing my limits. I'm fine with some of the chapters, like where you help Jessie, but the parts where you're just going every step of point A to B in the middle part of the game I was getting so bored. I hope they manage to balance it better in future entries...less linearity maybe, and more freedom since we're out of Midgar now?
As far as the ending goes, well at first I was kinda intrigued. The idea that they were going to change things up and knowing that we might not know what to expect going forward kinda solves the problem of the whole remake being too predicable for older fans. At the same time I'm feeling that it's a fuck up because it ruins the idea of giving the people what they wanted: a modern beautiful version of Final Fantasy 7. Instead it's going to be a new take on it, when some people want to re-experience the story of FF7. I'm all for changing some details, or adding elements to it like they did with this first part, but I don't know why they needed to retcon it this dramatically.
I can understand from a creative point of view, it might be nice for the developers not to be restrained by the narrative of the original game, but my problem with that is I don't know if I trust the developers to craft a good narrative, or one that is half as good as the original FF7. I'm not totally against the idea of what they're going for, but after experiencing games like FF15, and the Kingdom Hearts, I get a bad feeling in my gut regarding them tackling a story involving time line changes. I just see it turning into another mess that people will end up hating. This first part worked well enough because it was a good balance of old and new, but now the ending makes it seem like it's going to be all new going forward.
I'm so conflicted!
As far as the ending goes, well at first I was kinda intrigued. The idea that they were going to change things up and knowing that we might not know what to expect going forward kinda solves the problem of the whole remake being too predicable for older fans. At the same time I'm feeling that it's a fuck up because it ruins the idea of giving the people what they wanted: a modern beautiful version of Final Fantasy 7. Instead it's going to be a new take on it, when some people want to re-experience the story of FF7. I'm all for changing some details, or adding elements to it like they did with this first part, but I don't know why they needed to retcon it this dramatically.
I can understand from a creative point of view, it might be nice for the developers not to be restrained by the narrative of the original game, but my problem with that is I don't know if I trust the developers to craft a good narrative, or one that is half as good as the original FF7. I'm not totally against the idea of what they're going for, but after experiencing games like FF15, and the Kingdom Hearts, I get a bad feeling in my gut regarding them tackling a story involving time line changes. I just see it turning into another mess that people will end up hating. This first part worked well enough because it was a good balance of old and new, but now the ending makes it seem like it's going to be all new going forward.
I'm so conflicted!
A give and take relationship where their end goals are different? I can buy that.
Cetra Scripture:
They could be talking about a spiritual place that they "ascend" to. I'm not 100% on board with this theory.
No retcons, it's a sequel, an end to the compilation.
Yeah, I kinda get that...but that's another issue I have, and maybe I'm stupid or didn't see where it was. This kind of "sequel" is fine. It's similar to how Star Trek 2009 tried to be a reboot/sequel by having someone from the Prime future come and alter the past. But what is the justification here that Sephiroth, or anyone else is aware of the original game's timeline and can change it? Other than the Whispers appearing in this game, where is the justification for trying to change the timeline. I didn't quite understand that aspect of this game. Is it simply that this Sephiroth somehow has awareness of the other timeline?
Im not sure if I understand your question, but it seems that the devs have decided that OG's ending (despite how inspiring and amazing that ending was) was a bad ending for humanity. Eventually they lose. There is some contradictions in the compilation but it seems that Kitase has said outright that humanity is gone after FF7, or at least after FF7:AC. Sephiroth loses, but so does everyone else. That is Aerith's motivation to return from the Lifestream in this new cycle of life, if that is indeed what happened (LIFESTREAM BLACK AND WHITE seem to imply this).
Sephiroth's motivation would be pretty clear. He loses, but he maintains his essence within the Lifestream. He's therefore capable of manifesting through those who have JENOVA cells, and his consciousness remains until he can return to the Planet in this new cycle of Life, with a new plan, in order that this time he can win, and gain full control of the Lifestream and the Planet like he wanted to do before. "This planet is my birthright!".
Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut lol. I haven't really played through all of FF7 in 20 years, so I honestly can't remember the late plot details anymore. I basically forgot how the lore worked. I do recall the ending though where you see Red XIII hundreds of years later, and yeah I guess I forgot that basically humanity had died at that point.
When I beat it as a kid, it was obvious to me that Humanity was gone. holy had worked, and the planet decided to destroy everything that was harmful to it - even humanity (as Bugenhagen had said):
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Bugenhagen: Holy... the ultimate White Magic. Magic that might stand against Meteor. Perhaps our last hope to save the planet from Meteor. If a soul seeking Holy reaches the planet, it will appear. Ho Ho Hooo. Meteor, WEAPON, everything will disappear. Perhaps, even ourselves.
Cloud: Even us!?
Bugenhagen: It is up to the planet to decide. What is best for the planet. What is bad for the planet. All that is bad will disappear. That is all. Ho Ho Hooo. I wonder which we humans are?
But then Advent Children came along and sorta confused this ending, where you see people are still around but infected with this JENOVA/Sephiroth sickness, since he's in the Lifestream infecting the planet. So I thought maybe the "humanity all died" interpretation was wrong. But I guess it doesn't necessarily contradict, since humanity could have just died later on. But it definitely took the shock and power out of the OG ending.
finally finished the game. Fuck Nomura. I like that they play with the concept of changing fate, but this ending ja crap, way too cryptic. It doesn't mean anything.
Honestly just replaying OG won't answer your questions. You need to go through the entire compilation.
Edit: well.... most of it. At least read On the way to a smile, watch AC and a couple of important cutscenes in Dirge.
When people say compilation, do they mean all the other games/media they've made? Like Crisis Core, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, etc?
I edit my answer, i don't think there's anything important in crisis core related to part 1.
Before crisis maybe but it's not important, there's a theory related to why Rufus can see the whispers and if that theory is true it would be related to before crisis.
I think OG is the most important, and maybe On the way to smile (it's a short read). Even after that you won't get a 100% lucid picture, because the devs clearly do not want us to know everything. There is mystery in the ending of REMAKE (just like there was in OG at the end of Midgar).
I think replaying OG will be most helpful to me because when I think about it, I kinda really can't remember a lot of plot details of the original past midgar. Hell, I don't even remember the sequence of events that lead to Aerith's death, that's how much I don't recall. After so long, you remember the iconic imagery, and think you remember the game, but now I realize it's like I have never played it before.
Nah, I see it as him being cautious, he was a lab rat trapped in this place remember?
After re-playing the OG (or rather watching it on youtube) and then watching the movie again it wasn't really that bad especially now that I could follow what was going on (I literally forgot who some people where likes the Turks and Rufus). People who hadn't played the original FF7 or don't remember much of it will be lost while watching the movie, I know it was for me.
Thanks for sharing, that was a fun watch.
Echoes my own thoughts.
It'll be funny if Zack joins current timeline by simply walking through a wall... I mean, door.
Jokes are the deepest lore, afterall.
Jokes are the deepest lore, afterall.
Sephiroth lost in the OG timeline aka Advent Children/Dirge of Cerberus and went back to the past to create a future where he wins.
Remake! Aerith is aware of this for reasons unknown to us still.
Unfortunately for Sephiroth, the Lifestream is employing a thing called the Arbiters of Fate to keep Sephiroth from changing his and the planet's destiny.
Sephiroth tricks the party into destroying the Arbiters of Fate for him (which created branching timelines now) and now has the freedom to win.
This game made me go back and finish XV, and will go through other FF games I never finished.
There are people who think that they've merged his stupid CC last stand with his original death, yep.um guys i don't know if this has been discussed before, but..
In the remake ending scene where zack carries cloud match with the original scene before zack's death
I still think he's making it alive, though, especially after the Ultimania comments. Otherwise, it being an alternative timeline is a bit weird as of now.
Well (FFVII OG spoiler)A give and take relationship where their end goals are different? I can buy that.
Cetra Scripture:
They could be talking about a spiritual place that they "ascend" to. I'm not 100% on board with this theory.
isn't that what the REAL Promised Land was in the original? Shinra was too caught up in the notion that "The Promised Land" was an actual "land" that they could build a settlement on for Neo-Midgar. The Promised Land was "returning to the Lifestream" and being at peace and one with the Planet. That's why when people brought up the theory of where Shinra was going to build Neo-Midgar and that there might be timeskip to the future where we see the REAL Neo-Midgar, I said that was never going to happen because it was all BS from the beginning. Shinra's take on Neo-Midgar is just a mock-up based on speculation. Of course Shinra's too dense and focused on power that they can't see that.
I never said that the promised land was an actual land. Our argument is that if the Promised land is a state of being or the lifestream itself.
This is where I am most lost, because how did he accomplish this part. How is anything from the OG timeline affecting the present in this game, because I am unaware of the method in which they can affect the past/other timelines.
I always thought this has been generally accepted as the case for decades now. It seemed clear to me in the original that the Promised Land is a state of existing within the Lifestream and eventually having your spirit energy participate in the planet's cycle of rebirth. The interesting thing is that some beings, like the Ancients, had a strong enough will to resist dissipating into the Lifestream. The original game implies that the Ancients chose to hold on to some extent so that they could continue resist Jenova even after death.
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Wouldn't it be both? Especially from the Cetra's point of view?
It's lifestream lore that starts getting mentioned in both On the way to a smile and AC.
When Sephiroth retrieves Jenova's body from Hojo's lab, does it take the form of a clone, hence Sephiroth carrying one in later scenes? The seemingly shape-shifting/hallucination-inducing nature of Jenova's remains is a bit confusing to me.
This is awesome. :)
This is awesome. :)
I don't think anyone really knows this for sure yet. I think one of the prevailing theories is that Sephiroth is able to affect time as he does in Remake because he absorbed knowledge and power from the Lifestream. Remake implies that the planet has some knowledge of the future and destiny, so it stands to reason that when Sephiroth inserted his will into the the Lifestream in the original he may have learned about how to manipulate time.
But isn't this just from the Cetra point of view? I guess since they named, that's the one that matters.
Yeah I wrote something similar in the old spoiler thread: the endgame result Gaia wants is the safety of the Planet, not necessarily of humans. No matter if Shinra innocents workers, Junon shipworkers or Midgar citizens gets dirty by Sephiroth, or if humanity eventually dies by Geostigma. This is preserving nature (the Planet) vs preserving humanity (the party), which I think is a theme that follows the OG pretty nicely.
Played the original game once on PS3, and my system freaking died when I got to Northern Crater and I never finished it. However, I totally get the nostalgia and reverence for everything, and absoluately adored the remake. The two things that I really wasn't expecting and really liked ranged from a nice little pleasant surprise (the 1940's Disney-fied version of the Gold Saucer theme) to full on choked-up near tears (I cannot believe how well Cloud saving Aerith, Barrett, and Red XIII on the bike with the theme fanfare in the background worked for me). Also, genuine LOL from me at "local florist!"
Confession time: I never finished the original. I played it on PC first cause I didn't have a PSX, and the A/C busted in my house during the middle of a Texas summer heatwave, so my computer kept overheating as I was trying to play the final battle. So I did what any computer savvy kid would do and looked at all the game files and just watched the ending video.