• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

What should happen to Aerith in the FFVIIR saga?

  • She should die, it's her destiny

    Votes: 395 57.7%
  • She should live, fuck destiny

    Votes: 289 42.3%

  • Total voters
    684
Status
Not open for further replies.

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
EDIT: Deleting for mod staff post to be compliant and not stir the pot, apologies again.

I'm pretty sure there are lots of ways perfecting it! For example: Changing the characters! I do not change often and my "Main" is Cloud – with magic it's not necessary to change up to Barret for distance in my opinion! But others might find it fun to play far more with the rest of the crew.



I still manage just fine with Cloud but I've the feeling he gets his weapons at the slowest pace (after his initial 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] weapon) – the rest already has more weapons. Hopefully I did not skip one for Cloud… and you also can't equip too many Materia at once, in my opinion.

I've plenty of unused Materia because it's just impossible to load them all. So, I would say the amount of abilities pretty clear still!



I think that the Materia that Tifa & Aerith bring to the table are pretty neat! But other than that nothing really new or revolting. I missed one (I saw in a sequence and could not go back until now...) and I've the dumb feeling that it was something cool because the Yellow orbs are usually the very unique ones, like Chakra (Tifa) or Prayer (Aerith).



It's deffo not too easy but I am also happy that it isn't frustrating! If you don't get a hang of the battle system it could be problematic… a friend of mine can't really get a grip on it, sooo it's a bit a bummer for her.

But if you made yourself familiar and are willing to try different things, I think it's very fair (+ there will be Hard difficulty with New Game, afaik?)
Sweet thanks for the explanations. Keep in mind you can expand materia slots on your weapon through the SP gains and stuff too, so I imagine the options will open up later.
 
Last edited:

Pastel Melon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
618
Germany
Sweet thanks for the explanations. Keep in mind you can expand materia slots on your weapon through the SP gains and stuff too, so I imagine the options will open up later.

I already opened up for most characters and still have plenty of Materia left! I think it will probably be a bit "better" when I move to towards the endgame but it really feels like you get a bit too much Materia… I've like… five Lightning Materia?

If I could give one advice: don't buy Materia, besides "special one" (from Chadley for example). I regret every elemental magic I bought so far…
 

Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
I much prefer people laying out their grievances with something clearly instead of the low effort driveby shitposts that tend to happen on here frequently. So while I may not agree with all of Bit_Reactor or PlanetSmasher's (Only naming you two because y'all are the first to come to mind lol) perspectives, I do value the discussion it facilitates.

That's just my two cents tho. I'm gonna go back to seeking out streams like a dope fiend.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I already opened up for most characters and still have plenty of Materia left! I think it will probably be a bit "better" when I move to towards the endgame but it really feels like you get a bit too much Materia… I've like… five Lightning Materia?

If I could give one advice: don't buy Materia, besides "special one" (from Chadley for example). I regret every elemental magic I bought so far…
Why do you regret it? D:
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,034
Pennsylvania
Some people think more hours filled with tedious fetch quest is what makes a game worth it.
I'd like to add too that I have very little reason to trust anyone involved with the game saying that it's the size of a full game, that kind of statement is incredibly vague and people have very different standards for what a "full game" even is. Just because it's long doesn't mean that it was "full of content" or just cause there's a lot to do doesn't mean that it's worth doing. Opinions and all that.
 

Pastel Melon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
618
Germany
Why do you regret it? D:
Because I usually find exact that Materia two seconds later. I mean... it's maybe useful if you want to give everyone a full set of elemental magic but I literally have 5 sets of Lightning orbs and I am not even through the game…

And you can buy them @ lots of vendors. So I would personally advise to maybe not… buy everything you see at the first store (Ice, Fire, Lightning) – you can stock them up anywhere and you'll find so many elemental magic that it might be wasted money.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,118
Because I usually find exact that Materia two seconds later. I mean... it's maybe useful if you want to give everyone a full set of elemental magic but I literally have 5 sets of Lightning orbs and I am not even through the game…

And you can buy them @ lots of vendors. So I would personally advise to maybe not… buy everything you see at the first store (Ice, Fire, Lightning) – you can stock them up anywhere and you'll find so many elemental magic that it might be wasted money.

Have you fought any bosses besides the scorpion? Do they get any less obtuse? I found the demo didn't do a great job explaining how to beat it.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
...Says the person calling a perspective towards a fleshed out, actively characterized Sephiroth "MOAR IS BETTER. NEW GOOD. OLD BAD. UNGA DUNGA" while equating him to Xehanort. Riiiiight.

Sephiroth isn't a character in FFVII. He's a hallucination. The actual PERSON Sephiroth is either dead, or stuck in a rock and sleeping. That's the problem. Putting all this focus on a fake Sephiroth and pretending that makes him a "character" is silly, because it's not the actual character talking. It's the equivalent of watching a dream sequence and going "wow, that dream version of [X] sure is interesting. guess that makes X super interesting!"
 

Pastel Melon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
618
Germany
ave you fought any bosses besides the scorpion? Do they get any less obtuse? I found the demo didn't do a great job explaining how to beat it
Yes, I've fought a few bosses already! I think they get "easier" because you get more variety and the Asses Materia also helps a lot. Giving your chars different elements is key BUT I would say some bosses have a very similar scheme to the Scorpion Sentinel?

Especially…

Air Buster

He felt a lot like the Scorpio to me. It took me a few tries with the Demo to get into the gameplay, honestly. But now I pay more attention to what the enemy does next (it shows!) and dodge & guard!
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,034
Pennsylvania
Sephiroth isn't a character in FFVII. He's a hallucination. The actual PERSON Sephiroth is either dead, or stuck in a rock and sleeping. That's the problem. Putting all this focus on a fake Sephiroth and pretending that makes him a "character" is silly, because it's not the actual character talking. It's the equivalent of watching a dream sequence and going "wow, that dream version of [X] sure is interesting. guess that makes X super interesting!"
Buddy of mine and I were just talking about exactly this and we kind of figured that maybe the whole Jenova acting as Sephiroth would be retconned and it just is Sephiroth now. I wouldn't be surprised if SE did this given his popularity. We were not thrilled with this potential outcome lol.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,118
Yes, I've fought a few bosses already! I think they get "easier" because you get more variety and the Asses Materia also helps a lot. Giving your chars different elements is key BUT I would say some bosses have a very similar scheme to the Scorpion Sentinel?

Especially…

Air Buster

He felt a lot like the Scorpio to me. It took me a few tries with the Demo to get into the gameplay, honestly. But now I pay more attention to what the enemy does next (it shows!) and dodge & guard!

Thanks! Yeah, I need to get better on dodging/guarding for sure. Maybe run through the demo one more time before the game is out.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
Because I usually find exact that Materia two seconds later. I mean... it's maybe useful if you want to give everyone a full set of elemental magic but I literally have 5 sets of Lightning orbs and I am not even through the game…

And you can buy them @ lots of vendors. So I would personally advise to maybe not… buy everything you see at the first store (Ice, Fire, Lightning) – you can stock them up anywhere and you'll find so many elemental magic that it might be wasted money.
Oh now that I think about it, are there weapons and stuff that affect materia level gains like in the original? Like double or no gains of Materia levels?
 

Makodaioh2167

Member
Mar 30, 2020
78
Sephiroth isn't a character in FFVII. He's a hallucination. The actual PERSON Sephiroth is either dead, or stuck in a rock and sleeping. That's the problem. Putting all this focus on a fake Sephiroth and pretending that makes him a "character" is silly, because it's not the actual character talking. It's the equivalent of watching a dream sequence and going "wow, that dream version of [X] sure is interesting. guess that makes X super interesting!"

That's not exactly true. Sephiroth died, but his will prevented his soul from diffusing into the Lifestream. He was able to reform his body and thus live again.

The Jenova creature that takes his form throughout FFVII is functionally an avatar for Sephiroth. It's in his shape while he moves, speaks, and acts through its body from within the Northern Crater.

I mean, if it's Sephiroth's will, words and intent working through Jenova morphed into his shape, that's functionally him, isnt it?

The Remake potentially making this interaction clearer while anchoring Sephiroth's agency and character in the story is needed at this point. He's supposed to be the advancement and evolution of Jenova. Hence why he controls the thing.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
Haven't found anything like that yet, sorry!
I believe there was only one or two in the original run of Midgar I guess, so it's fair that they might save those for when you have more materia in part 2.

HAve you gained Enemy skill yet? That's what I'm most curious about. I want Big Guards DSL dial up crunched audio to play in my dreams.
 

Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
Oh now that I think about it, are there weapons and stuff that affect materia level gains like in the original? Like double or no gains of Materia levels?
I was wondering this, too. Having to decide between raw stat boosts, number of materia slots or possible extra AP growth was one of my favorite things about FFVII's weapon balance.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Sephiroth isn't a character in FFVII. He's a hallucination. The actual PERSON Sephiroth is either dead, or stuck in a rock and sleeping. That's the problem. Putting all this focus on a fake Sephiroth and pretending that makes him a "character" is silly, because it's not the actual character talking. It's the equivalent of watching a dream sequence and going "wow, that dream version of [X] sure is interesting. guess that makes X super interesting!"
.....I'm pretty sure that's not how it worked.


The Sephiroth personality more or less took over Jenova and acts through her body.
 

Pastel Melon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
618
Germany
HAve you gained Enemy skill yet?
I haven't found it but it might be the one I missed (I should be able to go back soon... I hope).


I was wondering this, too. Having to decide between raw stat boosts, number of materia slots or possible extra AP growth was one of my favorite things about FFVII's weapon balance.

I think they made the balance with the abilities now! For example: I've a weapon which would be; just from the base stats; far better than the Buster Sword but the Buster Sword fits my personal play-style a bit more, so I use it instead of the other weapons.

Same goes for Tifa: She is my "black mage", so I gave her a weapon with fitting abilities, instead of the "stronger" one.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
.....I'm pretty sure that's not how it worked.


The Sephiroth personality more or less took over Jenova and acts through her body.

So we're supposed to believe that Sephiroth is, himself, piloting Jenova around Midgar just to fuck with Cloud like some kind of weird troll?

I still don't see how this improves him as a character. He's still saying stupid shit and acting like a member of Organization XIII instead of DOING anything.
 

Pastel Melon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
618
Germany
I still don't see how this improves him as a character. He's still saying stupid shit and acting like a member of Organization XIII instead of DOING anything.
He literally pushes Cloud to get him the Black Materia in the original game, so he can destroy the planet...? It's a lot clearer that he is fucking things up than it was in the OG, in which he had like 2 lines.
 

Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
I haven't found it but it might be the one I missed (I should be able to go back soon... I hope).




I think they made the balance with the abilities now! For example: I've a weapon which would be; just from the base stats; far better than the Buster Sword but the Buster Sword fits my personal play-style a bit more, so I use it instead of the other weapons.

Same goes for Tifa: She is my "black mage", so I gave her a weapon with fitting abilities, instead of the "stronger" one.
That sounds good to me. I can't wait to see what kinds of abilities/perks some of the top tier weapons have.

I'm a big fan of RPGs that give weapons utility outside of just stat boosts (KH3 is a recent Square-Enix game that did this quite well), so things seem promising on that front so far.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
He literally pushes Cloud to get him the Black Materia in the original game, so he can destroy the planet...? It's a lot clearer that he is fucking things up than it was in the OG, in which he had like 2 lines.

I'm talking about him being in Midgar in the remake. He's not doing anything there except trolling Cloud. There's zero point to these scenes aside from giving him stupid lines just make him sound like a shitty Nomura villain instead of an actually interesting character.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,618
I'm talking about him being in Midgar in the remake. He's not doing anything there except trolling Cloud. There's zero point to these scenes aside from giving him stupid lines just make him sound like a shitty Nomura villain instead of an actually interesting character.

I think you're expecting waaay to much from this lol. SE's idea of making Seph interesting is just making him look cool pretty much.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
So we're supposed to believe that Sephiroth is, himself, piloting Jenova around Midgar just to fuck with Cloud like some kind of weird troll?

I still don't see how this improves him as a character. He's still saying stupid shit and acting like a member of Organization XIII instead of DOING anything.
Well first off I'm not talking about just the remake I'm pretty sure that's how it was in the original.

Second let's look at it two ways...

1) It's the real Sephiroth trying to torment and wear down Cloud mentally. This could be to make him more susceptible to his control or as petty revenge to spite the "mere human" who dare defeat him.

2) It's the Jenova cells mixing with Cloud's trauma to taunt him about his own weakness and insecurities that lead to him being so damaged in the first place.

Seriously so far everything I've seen of Sephiroth here seems fine.
 

Makodaioh2167

Member
Mar 30, 2020
78
So we're supposed to believe that Sephiroth is, himself, piloting Jenova around Midgar just to fuck with Cloud like some kind of weird troll?

I still don't see how this improves him as a character. He's still saying stupid shit and acting like a member of Organization XIII instead of DOING anything.


.... Cloud killed him. The man humiliated and ruined his intended plan of not being nearly bifurcated and subsequently tossed into a Mako pool.

You don't think Sephiroth would nurture a grudge, especially upon realizing the man who killed him and jacked his body up, is highly vulnerable to mental manipulation and control thanks to carrying his alien cells?

It's free real estate!

Sephiroth is breaking down his mind so he'll be more suggestible and removed from his real self. And he intends to use him in his plan.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
I think you're expecting waaay to much from this lol. SE's idea of making Seph interesting is just making him look cool pretty much.

I have to expect SOMETHING. And if none of the characters or scenes that matter to me are in this game, I have to hope for good writing, because I honestly don't care about Midgar at all, or anyone in it.
 

Pastel Melon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
618
Germany
I'm talking about him being in Midgar in the remake. He's not doing anything there except trolling Cloud. There's zero point to these scenes aside from giving him stupid lines just make him sound like a shitty Nomura villain instead of an actually interesting character.

Yeah, I guess everybody in the thread got it… I am not sure what you want to hear? Like I said: It is personal taste and it's fine if you don't like it. It is for me, I dig it a lot and I love me some extra cheese on my JRPGs but there is no point in "arguing" over it.

Sephiroth DOES have a personality. He pilots JENOVA, he has a character and him mentally torturing Cloud does; for my taste; add a lot to him as a villain. It does not work for you, cool. But what's the point in being so extremely rude about it? =/

I'm a big fan of RPGs that give weapons utility outside of just stat boosts (KH3 is a recent Square-Enix game that did this quite well), so things seem promising on that front so far.

I think it's a good mix! You'll get your usual ATK+X stuff but you can go for more supportive stuff entirely (like MP reg, BOOST while doing MAGATK etc.). I think in the end, if the character is max-level, you can probably learn everything one weapon has to offer - not sure about that.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,618
I have to expect SOMETHING. And if none of the characters or scenes that matter to me are in this game, I have to hope for good writing, because I honestly don't care about Midgar at all, or anyone in it.

Well yeah who cares about Midgar, but there's still the gameplay department, new stuff and a modern take on ff7! Just headcanon something better lol.

Cause if you're hoping for good writing I'm afraid that ship has sailed, sunk and currently lying in ruins at the bottom of the ocean.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
Yeah, I guess everybody in the thread got it… I am not sure what you want to hear? Like I said: It is personal taste and it's fine if you don't like it. It is for me, I dig it a lot and I love me some extra cheese on my JRPGs but there is no point in "arguing" over it.

Sephiroth DOES have a personality. He pilots JENOVA, he has a character and him mentally torturing Cloud does; for my taste; add a lot to him as a villain. It does not work for you, cool. But what's the point in being so extremely rude about it? =/

I'm not gonna call you an asshole for liking it or anything. If it works for you, it works for you. That's good, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But considering the fact this is all the FF we're going to see for the next five to ten years, there's a lot of expectation riding on it. There aren't going to be alternatives. There aren't going to be other AAA JRPGs to play. You either play this or you play nothing.

So yes, I'm going to be critical, because if this is what Square thinks passes for their best foot forward, then they have to be prepared for people reacting to it in kind. And my interpretation of the dialogue writing for Sephiroth - hallucination or phantom or whatever - is that it's just not very good. I would be happy if it was better. I love good game dialogue.
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
I'm not gonna call you an asshole for liking it or anything. If it works for you, it works for you. That's good, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But considering the fact this is all the FF we're going to see for the next five to ten years, there's a lot of expectation riding on it. There aren't going to be alternatives. There aren't going to be other AAA JRPGs to play. You either play this or you play nothing.


So yes, I'm going to be critical, because if this is what Square thinks passes for their best foot forward, then they have to be prepared for people reacting to it in kind. And my interpretation of the dialogue writing for Sephiroth - hallucination or phantom or whatever - is that it's just not very good. I would be happy if it was better. I love good game dialogue.


what kind of hyperbole is this? Smasher you seem way more jazzed up than usual man.
 

Samawati

Member
Sep 15, 2019
216
So we're supposed to believe that Sephiroth is, himself, piloting Jenova around Midgar just to fuck with Cloud like some kind of weird troll?

I still don't see how this improves him as a character. He's still saying stupid shit and acting like a member of Organization XIII instead of DOING anything.
I think the [my] biggest problem is execution. I accept Sephiroth will show up early, and maybe even frequently, but I'd prefer if it were done in a way that paid respects to the tension created by the original. I think it was Nojima who said that Seph's gradual reveal was inspired by Jaws; it was supposed to instil an oppressive sense of dread. But since they've abandoned the gradual reveal outright, why not invoke the same sense by playing up the elements of psychological horror?

Imo, even in the original, it was somewhat of a missed opportunity that it was never played up how alien/unsettling Seph could be and how much of an eldritch abomination Jenova actually is. If they're going with hallucinations, they could have done some really wild level designs with it. Or focus on disturbing the player within the levels/cutscenes in ways that go unacknowledged/unseen by the characters themselves. Really, I think just about anything might be more effective than having Sephiroth showing up and giving horrible anime speeches, but I'm chillin.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,484
I think the [my] biggest problem is execution. I accept Sephiroth will show up early, and maybe even frequently, but I'd prefer if it were done in a way that paid respects to the tension created by the original. I think it was Nojima who said that Seph's gradual reveal was inspired by Jaws; it was supposed to instil an oppressive sense of dread. But since they've abandoned the gradual reveal outright, why not invoke the same sense by playing up the elements of psychological horror?

Imo, even in the original, it was somewhat of a missed opportunity that it was never played up how alien/unsettling Seph could be and how much of an eldritch abomination Jenova actually is. If they're going with hallucinations, they could have done some really wild level designs with it. Or focus on disturbing the player within the levels/cutscenes in ways that go unacknowledged/unseen by the characters themselves. Really, I think just about anything might be more effective than having Sephiroth showing up and giving horrible anime speeches, but I'm chillin.

Pretty much. All of this is fair. The whole Organization XIII "Pop up, say a cryptic/threatening thing, then fuck off after accomplishing nothing" thing is the worst possible way to flesh Sephiroth out as a threat OR as a character.

what kind of hyperbole is this? Smasher you seem way more jazzed up than usual man.

I've been sick as hell for days, and I'm also not really that hyperbolic - there aren't going to be any alternatives out of Square for a while (we all know FFXVI is a LONG ways out), and nobody else makes AAA JRPGs anymore.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,118
Idk why people are stubborn about this, SE literally asked people yesterday to not spoil the game, the streams are coming down until april 10th.

One of the most highly anticipated games of the last decade just released a week and a half early in an entire country and you don't think tons of people would want to stream this?
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,618
This isn't gonna be contained. If enough people are uploading and streaming it they're gonna give up altogether. They also don't have a date on their streaming guidelines.
I think you underestimate how easily Twitch and the bigger sites can mass takedown streams, especially when they're all tagged lol.

It could be however, that they allow australians and eu people who got it legitimately to stream but... who knows, not exactly a common situation.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,618
and nobody else makes AAA JRPGs anymore.
Tbh I think Persona 5 counts at this point, production values notwithstanding. But I'd rather not hear a rant about how Ryuji is such an idiot it ruins your immersion.

One of the most highly anticipated games of the last decade just released a week and a half early in an entire country and you don't think tons of people would want to stream this?
Want? Sure. Do it succesfully? Who knows. If SE really gets a stick up their ass about it they can clamp down hard.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.