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What should happen to Aerith in the FFVIIR saga?

  • She should die, it's her destiny

    Votes: 395 57.7%
  • She should live, fuck destiny

    Votes: 289 42.3%

  • Total voters
    684
Status
Not open for further replies.

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,741
I seriously can't believe that people think they should spoil the biggest twist of the game in marketing.

Yes, even as someone who isn't a fan of the implications of what's going on, I don't think there is some malicious intent behind not making it obvious that this isn't a straight remake.

In fact I think the game would probably be more marketable if they showed off some of the potential for change since as much as I don't like it it seems there are a lot of Zack fans out there and a ton more who would be excited at the prospect of "changing the fate" of other characters.

How dare you. 😤

Crisis Core was amazing. The way it expanded the lore, gave much needed characterisation and depth to everyone from the Turks to Sephiroth himself, letting us see the Nibelheim incident from another perspective...

There's a reason everyone loves Zack so much and it's because of Crisis Core.

It expanded the lore in ways I didn't enjoy and still don't, and turned Zack into something that I never wanted him to be. Good for the people that love what they made Zack, but I have always felt giving him so much more significance removed the point of his character in the original story and weakened Cloud's story overall.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,390
How dare you. 😤

Crisis Core was amazing. The way it expanded the lore, gave much needed characterisation and depth to everyone from the Turks to Sephiroth himself, letting us see the Nibelheim incident from another perspective...

There's a reason everyone loves Zack so much and it's because of Crisis Core.
Zack being an enjoyable character=/=CC's story is good. Like it's fun and stuff to see things like the first time Cloud and Zack met, the music is ofc good. But good lord did all the convoluted added lore and characters like Lovelessman.exe fuck things up.

Yes, even as someone who isn't a fan of the implications of what's going on, I don't think there is some malicious intent behind not making it obvious that this isn't a straight remake.

In fact I think the game would probably be more marketable if they showed off some of the potential for change since as much as I don't like it it seems there are a lot of Zack fans out there and a ton more who would be excited at the prospect of "changing the fate" of other characters.
Yea no, the impact of thw twist wouldn't be anywhere near as effective if they straight up spoiled it. It would be the equivalent of that time Marvel decided to spoil the fuck out of Spiderman Homecoming.
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,741
Yea no, the impact of thw twist wouldn't be anywhere near as effective if they straight up spoiled it. It would be the equivalent of that time Marvel decided to spoil the fuck out of Spiderman Homecoming.

Yes, I agree. Am saying that it isn't some sort of deception by square to trick people into buying the game by not reveling the full story.
 

Elios83

Member
Oct 28, 2017
976
LOL I'm both excited and scared by the twists.
Excited because quite frankly it is the most interesting way to make things fresh, justify each game as a standalone experience and not a chunk of a story you already know and you have to wait years to be remade as it was.
Also I'm not among the people who think that just because things are not 1:1 or not like I imagined it means that it's bad. It's different and can be good.....but...and here's why I'm scared....the original story as boring as it is 23 years later without any changes at least was a safe bet. Here we have to pray that it doesn't follow the footsteps of the KH series or the FFXIII trilogy.
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,604
I like how the game is showing the consequences of blowing up a reactor to the player. So many injured, panicked citizens and destroyed cars and buildings you have to walk past.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
Folks saying that this is KH and not FF. Aren't the most favourite FF games like FF7, FF8 and FF10? What do you think those plots are? Immaculately constructed plots that solely relies on logic and fact? FF10 is the most beloved and your father is a fucking whale in an isekai journey

You've been raised by Final Fantasy that have absolutely outlandish plots that involved time travel, multiple dimensions and planet-busting beings while you go to the fucking moon. Please.
 

Look! The Pie!

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
794
People were expecting a remake of the Midgar portion with a bunch of additions and changes to make the climax more exciting for its own game.

That's exactly what they're getting. The twists largely affect future titles, which they don't have to buy if they don't want to.

I honestly find the idea that they should spoil the game's biggest twist in marketing a little insane. Hating the twist is fine, but this is nonsense.

Imagine if people got upset that Bloodborne is actually Cosmic Horror instead of Gothic Horror because they marketed it as "Dark Souls with guns and werewolves" to keep things a surprise.

There's no expectations that the entire story should be marketed as to not mislead anyone. A game isn't just its story, all of the content they've shown and demoed are still in the game, there was no false marketing.

Bloodborne wasn't a supposed remake of one of the most beloved games in history that people have been waiting literal decades for. I understand why they're doing this, but it's also perfectly understandable that consumers should know exactly what they're getting when the game has, since its initial reveal, been marketed as a straight remake and not a reimagining/AU quasi-sequel/whatever this entire project actually ends up being.

Oh they want that sweet first week money.

I saw details about it and I can't agree more.
It's an awful move.

Yep. And some people ITT are already rewriting history and claiming we knew all long the remake was going to diverge significantly from the original, because they're so personally invested in this project that they won't even entertain the notion that people might have valid reasons to criticise these changes.
 

Nateo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,550
What the fuck is thIs? Two days ago everyone thought it was a remake, not a fucking sequel. Even now people who have no clue about the spoilers just think this is a remake. Its false marketing. Nobody wanted this, and this should be in all marketing material and let people know before spending their money.
Well the story is still being remade. Its in the title of the game. Almost every other remake has made story changes. This just happens to be done in a unique way.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,426
Folks saying that this is KH and not FF. Aren't the most favourite FF games like FF7, FF8 and FF10? What do you think those plots are? Immaculately constructed plots that solely relies on logic and fact? FF10 is the most beloved and your father is a fucking whale in an isekai journey

You've been raised by Final Fantasy that have absolutely outlandish plots that involved time travel, multiple dimensions and planet-busting beings while you go to the fucking moon. Please.
Yeah, the difference between good and bad FF stories is largely execution, and from what I've played (15 hours), the execution is pretty damn good.
 

Nateo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,550
Yep. And some people ITT are already rewriting history and claiming we knew all long the remake was going to diverge significantly from the original, because they're so personally invested in this project that they won't even entertain the notion that people might have valid reasons to criticise these changes.
It was super obvious when they announced FF7R p1 to be midgar only. So no one really rewriting history at all.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Zack being an enjoyable character=/=CC's story is good. Like it's fun and stuff to see things like the first time Cloud and Zack met, the music is ofc good. But good lord did all the convoluted added lore and characters like Lovelessman.exe fuck things up.

I'd disagree. Surely Zack and his interactions with others count as part of the story, especially if those interactions are what explore the state of the world in the years before FFVII?

Seeing Sephiroth be the hero he was revered as, Cloud being a total dork yet possessing hidden strength, Aerith actually being happy... Even just seeing Sephiroth remember sparring with Angeal and Genesis as a fond memory.

I don't even really mind Angeal and Genesis since they're pretty good foils for Sephiroth himself and Genesis actually gets a strong story arc to mirror Zack's own.
 

Tsar Pharaoh

Member
Nov 29, 2017
54
I haven't read all the changes as I don't necessarily need to know absolutely everything going in; but I think people take 'remake' the word in a really weird way? Like I've seen a few comments asking how can they change so much and still call the game a 'remake'; because that is what it is.

As defined in the OED a remake is to 'Make (something) again or differently.' Emphasis on the 'differently'. Which is exactly what Square is doing and is very common to the movie world already; but perhaps not so to the game world.

The changes may be disliked or liked (as they also are in film or TV) nonetheless that doesn't make using the word 'remake' deceptive in anyway - that's what it is still - its just not a 1:1 remake as is described by the first bit of the definition in OED.

Will be interested to see how this story plays out, as skimming through and also seeing that page count jump it seems this game may have made quite a few changes. I enjoy when stories take a risk - so lets see whether it pays off in this case. FFVII is my favourite game of all time and I played that literally a week ago again - if they want to remix it - fine by me.
THIS!!!! CAN WE PUT THIS EVERYWHERE so people would stop freaking out and complaining over stuff that was 、 or at least should've been known .


Also、 I do want everyone to know that at the last E3 they did say that this game was going to be a "R E I M A G I N I N G/R E T E L L I N G" of the game. Go watch it. So nobody should be surprised that there are new story element and heavy changes in the game. That was told to us prior to release and hinted at in all of the trailers. Nobody has the right to be mad whatsoever. It's been known.
 
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Narroo

Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,819
LOL I'm both excited and scared by the twists.
Excited because quite frankly it is the most interesting way to make things fresh, justify each game as a standalone experience and not a chunk of a story you already know and you have to wait years to be remade as it was.
Also I'm not among the people who think that just because things are not 1:1 or not like I imagined it means that it's bad. It's different and can be good.....but...and here's why I'm scared....the original story as boring as it is 23 years later without any changes at least was a safe bet. Here we have to pray that it doesn't follow the footsteps of the KH series or the FFXIII trilogy.

Or Parasite Eve: The 3rd Birthday. Or that Final Fantasy X2.5 audio drama. Or Final Fantasy Dissidia. Same writers, you know.
 

Carl2291

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,782
I think one good thing about them changing things around, mixing things up, is that it's a huge hook for Part 2. Instead of us knowing exactly what's going to happen between Midgar and what, Nibelheim? It's gonna be full of surprises.

I'm all in.

The Kalm flashback is going to be something special and a great opening for it.
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Bloodborne wasn't a supposed remake of one of the most beloved games in history that people have been waiting literal decades for. I understand why they're doing this, but it's also perfectly understandable that consumers should know exactly what they're getting when the game has, since its initial reveal, been marketed as a straight remake and not a reimagining/AU quasi-sequel/whatever this entire project actually ends up being.



Yep. And some people ITT are already rewriting history and claiming we knew all long the remake was going to diverge significantly from the original, because they're so personally invested in this project that they won't even entertain the notion that people might have valid reasons to criticise these changes.
I was considering checking reviews and maybe play it one day but honestly now I'm done with it.

I absolutely don't want to play FF kh7.

"Funny" coincidence, Nomura did some chara design on Xenoblade 2 and this one also has some story bs that is now contaminating the first.
It's almost as if Nomura had some story virus with him.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,359
I think one good thing about them changing things around, mixing things up, is that it's a huge hook for Part 2. Instead of us knowing exactly what's going to happen between Midgar and what, Nibelheim? It's gonna be full of surprises.

I'm all in.

The Kalm flashback is going to be something special and a great opening for it.
The way I see it the Remake sequels could end up being the Compilation titles we never got, in terms of quality.

Crisis Core was cool but man I was pumped for Dirge of Cerberus only for it to be dogshit. New FFVII that's also good is more exciting imo than blandly tracing the outline of a pre-existing story and inflating it with filler events.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,777
FF VII fan: Your honor as you can clearly see the Honey Bee Inn in the original Final Fantasy VII was a Love Hotel, while in the so called remake you can clearly see that it is now a cabaret. I paid money expecting a remake of Final Fantasy VII and all I see is a remake of Baz Luhrmann's Moulin Rouge! except this time I do not feel like a virgin.
While I do enjoy the new Honey Bee Inn, Moulin Rouge is an overrated trashfire imo
 

Elios83

Member
Oct 28, 2017
976
Or Parasite Eve: The 3rd Birthday. Or that Final Fantasy X2.5 audio drama. Or Final Fantasy Dissidia. Same writers, you know.

Emmm yes....they can fuck up this with nonsense, but people also need to accept changes with positive mind.
What they did in this first game was pretty much to retell the original events while creating an interesting basis explaining why certain things can be different. The fact that events and the fate of certain characters can be different but there's a life force that wants the events of the original to be canon is an interesting idea per se although it means that it won't be a 1:1 remake.
It's all about the execution of the future chapters at this point but relatively to this game they did a really interesting job.
 

KushalaDaora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,838
LOL I'm both excited and scared by the twists.
Excited because quite frankly it is the most interesting way to make things fresh, justify each game as a standalone experience and not a chunk of a story you already know and you have to wait years to be remade as it was.
Also I'm not among the people who think that just because things are not 1:1 or not like I imagined it means that it's bad. It's different and can be good.....but...and here's why I'm scared....the original story as boring as it is 23 years later without any changes at least was a safe bet. Here we have to pray that it doesn't follow the footsteps of the KH series or the FFXIII trilogy.

Nomura, Nojima and Toriyama walks into a bar....

FFVII got norted
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Folks saying that this is KH and not FF. Aren't the most favourite FF games like FF7, FF8 and FF10? What do you think those plots are? Immaculately constructed plots that solely relies on logic and fact? FF10 is the most beloved and your father is a fucking whale in an isekai journey

You've been raised by Final Fantasy that have absolutely outlandish plots that involved time travel, multiple dimensions and planet-busting beings while you go to the fucking moon. Please.
I personaly say it's KH not because FF is good and KH bad but because most FF has bad stories full of plot holes but KH litteraly is written like a bad fanfiction.
Good to see they managed to make 7 get worse.

Well, if it pleases enough people to be worth it... cool for them. But not everyone is going to know it's not 1:1 story. Even some don't know it's not the whole original 7.
 

Elios83

Member
Oct 28, 2017
976
Nomura, Nojima and Toriyama walks into a bar....

FFVII got norted

Be positive, maybe this time they won't make the same mistakes ahaha LOL.

I fully expect Aerith to be saved when she died in the original but her life will be in danger in many other situations :P
Maybe this time it will be Zack who is going to kill her or Zack himself is going to remind Cloud of who he actually is kicking his ass. Zack is the new main character.
 

KushalaDaora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,838
Be positive, maybe this time they won't make the same mistakes ahaha LOL.

You know they will name the next part

Final Fantasy VII Remake.2 : Re-Birth by Re-Union ~whisper of fate~ A Game By Tetsuya Nomura featuring Sora from Kingdom Hearts and Lightning from FFXIII saga.

Pls be excited
 
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Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,390
I'd disagree. Surely Zack and his interactions with others count as part of the story, especially if those interactions are what explore the state of the world in the years before FFVII?

Seeing Sephiroth be the hero he was revered as, Cloud being a total dork yet possessing hidden strength, Aerith actually being happy... Even just seeing Sephiroth remember sparring with Angeal and Genesis as a fond memory.

I don't even really mind Angeal and Genesis since they're pretty good foils for Sephiroth himself and Genesis actually gets a strong story arc to mirror Zack's own.
They count in the technical sense. The plot gets way too convoluted to be emotionally resonate. CC for me is one of the many examples of Square's devs just not getting why the original game was as popular as it was.
While I do enjoy the new Honey Bee Inn, Moulin Rouge is an overrated trashfire imo
You take that back
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,752
Daily reminder that the only way you're getting well written FF stuff is if Natsuko Ishikawa or Kazutoyo Maehiro work on it.

Yoshi P x Natsuko Ishikawa for FF 16 pls.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,198
Bloodborne wasn't a supposed remake of one of the most beloved games in history that people have been waiting literal decades for. I understand why they're doing this, but it's also perfectly understandable that consumers should know exactly what they're getting when the game has, since its initial reveal, been marketed as a straight remake and not a reimagining/AU quasi-sequel/whatever this entire project actually ends up being.



Yep. And some people ITT are already rewriting history and claiming we knew all long the remake was going to diverge significantly from the original, because they're so personally invested in this project that they won't even entertain the notion that people might have valid reasons to criticise these changes.

This to me is my biggest annoyance, Square is doing the fans dirty. To market it as a REAMKE is just fucking wrong, and borderline false advertising.. I see this not going over well at all. I would have been fine it was was like Final Fantasy 7 (insert random stupid ass subtitle here) and people knew it wasn't a REAMKE <--- which is what most fans want... I knew they would add filler.
I knew they would take out shit.
I knew they would add new elements and story, but to this level of just playing with the story its just soo bad.
If I wasn't soo bored of having to stay home and had anything else to play at the moment. I wouldn't even get this game, but I don't. I was really mad yesterday, but have cooled off, and realized its not worth it.. I'll still get it and play the game high as hell(only way I can think to truly enjoy myself) and enjoy it as best I can, N64 textures and all. But Im NEVER trusting or buying another NOMURA directed SE game...( IM TIRED OF HIS GAMES) I just REALLY hope FF16 goes back to the roots of FF and NOMURA AND NOJIMA have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!
 

Neoraxis

Member
Nov 27, 2017
863
Not a big fan of the new design of Rufus :x, he looks like a jrock singer, the original jacket is perfectly fine.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,752
This is hyperbole. There are a lot of good FF stories outside of XIV. I'm still giving VII Remake a fair shake with its story.
Can you point me to some good FF stories in the last 7 years? Because ARR was pretty meh, HW was amazing, SB was worse than HW by quite a bit and ShB shits on every FF sans 6. So where are these good writers working on FF games?
 

Rocket Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,509
I'm not going to judge the changes to the story until I play it. As long as they capture the breadth of the game in the subsequent parts, they've met 90% of the expectations for me at least.

Although the changes sound dumb at first, it allows them to not retread the same exact story and we can see surprises along the way, which is fine by me.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,556
After reading through all the spoilers, I wonder if Square ever considered a different subtitle.
 

Look! The Pie!

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
794
It was super obvious when they announced FF7R p1 to be midgar only. So no one really rewriting history at all.

We knew the first episode was just Midgar and that certain events might be altered or expanded upon. We didn't know that the subsequent episodes might be disregarding the established canon altogether and spinning off into their own continuity, nor did we know that there was going to be any completely unnecessary alternate timeline stuff where the events of OG FFVII have apparently already happened.

But I don't want to shit up the thread, so I won't say anymore. If people are fine with these changes then that's perfectly valid, but it's equally valid for fans who thought they were getting a long-awaited straight remake to be disappointed/to think SE's marketing for this is questionable at best knowing what we know now.
 

PshycoNinja

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
Los Angeles
Can you point me to some good FF stories in the last 7 years? Because ARR was pretty meh, HW was amazing, SB was worse than HW by quite a bit and ShB shits on every FF sans 6. So where are these good writers working on FF games?

Honestly, I find ShBr pretty meh too it's just held higher regard because "Remember us". XIV fans also thought SB was the pinnacle of storytelling before everyone realized Zenos was a saturday morning cartoon villain.

XII has a pretty engaging story. XIII has bumps but it has its moments. XIII-2 was a huge step up in characters and telling human stories. LR isn't stellar. Type-0 has a very touching story. World of FF has a lot of fun moments. XV is one of the better FF stories with really human characters you connect with and care for and has an engaging plot.

Now by your aggressive tone I'm sure you won't take anything I mention well and say they're all garbage stories but I simply disagree. Cause many of the stories FF tells comes down to preference and subjective viewpoints. For example, I think Heavensward is the best story in XIV and it's been a rollercoaster of a story in terms of connecting with me. I find ARR, SB, ShBr story to mostly pad itself and drag for long moments and hours.
 

Deleted member 38706

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 19, 2018
924
If Nomura gets to remake FFXV, I wonder if he'll do the same, but replaces the original story with his vision for Versus XIII. You're halfway through the game when Noctis wakes up from his dream of the original XV universe and now you're playing the Versus storyline instead. Noctis gets confused about how every familiar face acts differently and wonders why Luna is now Stella. Blah blah some higher being playing with their lives
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
I'm not saying they are wrong for doing it this way. But, I do have to question how much it is okay to mislead your customers in the name of a "twist". I am really not against this. But, there are certainly people that are going to feel burned here, and I totally understand that. And I have to wonder, is this being sold as a remake instead of a sequel for business reasons, or creative?

This feels like it blows Metal Gear Solid 2 out of the water. Which is kind of funny since in-universe, that game was a secret "remake" of Metal Gear Solid 1.
I don't know, MGS2's twist was early on and affected the entire rest of the game. FFVII's twist at worst will turn people off from the series and make them not want to play future titles. But every story beat they expected from the Midgar Remake portion is still here. You're not owed an ending you personally find satisfying, you're owed the game they were showing and selling, and it's all there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
People were expecting minor changes, here and there, some extra content.
Not a fucking new 'timeline'.
Expecting, sure, but they weren't owed that. They could still change whatever they wanted, being a Remake doesn't necessarily chain it to doing everything the same way. Just look at RE3. It was received below expectations for the changes and cuts, sure, but no one insinuated it was false advertising. They can change whatever they want, people just aren't forced to like it. But you're also not owed an experience you'll personally enjoy when you buy a game, you're just owed the objective experience, not the subjective reaction.

Just look at how many people either hoped or worried that we'd be able to save Aerith. And we didn't have any metanarrative allowing this back then, people just thought they'd change it for no reason and call it a day, writing around any possible consequences.

The "defying fate" storyline allows them to take the story anywhere they want, but ironically it also adds accountability in a way that a direct remake wouldn't. By straight up showing scenes of the original ending at the final boss as "the future we're changing", they're directly acknowledging every relationship of cause and consequence of the original, and will have to justify future changes in comparison to OG FFVII, which is something they wouldn't have to do if they were just setting out to rewrite canon.

A straight remake that just changes whatever they feel like changing would likely change less than this can in future games for the audience's sake, but they wouldn't have to explain shit. Just write it so that the consequences of event A happening in the original aren't the same in the Remake, and there are no problems with it being changed or deleted from the Remake. People would complain, but people always complain about change, good or bad. Doesn't mean they're owed a recreation of the original.
 

RyuCookingSomeRice

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2020
1,009
User warned: hostility
Expecting, sure, but they weren't owed that. They could still change whatever they wanted, being a Remake doesn't necessarily chain it to doing everything the same way. Just look at RE3. It was received below expectations for the changes and cuts, sure, but no one insinuated it was false advertising. They can change whatever they want, people just aren't forced to like it. But you're also not owed an experience you'll personally enjoy when you buy a game, you're just owed the objective experience, not the subjective reaction.

Just look at how many people either hoped or worried that we'd be able to save Aerith. And we didn't have any metanarrative allowing this back then, people just thought they'd change it for no reason and call it a day, writing around any possible consequences.

The "defying fate" storyline allows them to take the story anywhere they want, but ironically it also adds accountability in a way that a direct remake wouldn't. By straight up showing scenes of the original ending at the final boss as "the future we're changing", they're directly acknowledging every relationship of cause and consequence of the original, and will have to justify future changes in comparison to OG FFVII, which is something they wouldn't have to do if they were just setting out to rewrite canon.

A straight remake that just changes whatever they feel like changing would likely change less than this can in future games for the audience's sake, but they wouldn't have to explain shit. Just write it so that the consequences of event A happening in the original aren't the same in the Remake, and there are no problems with it being changed or deleted from the Remake. People would complain, but people always complain about change, good or bad. Doesn't mean they're owed a recreation of the original.

The lengths ppl will go to to defend this bullshit and then naming this game ff7 remake
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,341
New York
I don't know, MGS2's twist was early on and affected the entire rest of the game. FFVII's twist at worst will turn people off from the series and make them not want to play future titles. But every story beat they expected from the Midgar Remake portion is still here. You're not owed an ending you personally find satisfying, you're owed the game they were showing and selling, and it's all there.
I think this is way worse than the MGS2 twist because it's not like Kojima was going around saying you would play the whole game as Snake. MGS2 promotional stuff generally was misleading but that's it. Square Enix was pretty much lying about all of this.

Additionally I would say the entire reason this project exists is because of fan demand for a proper remake. MGS2 was always going to happen in some form.

It's a totally different animal.
 
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