You see, it's the quest design part that really grinds my gears. Do the Square Enix devs just not play 90+ metacritic games? Like, learn from people who did it better than you!!!
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Final Fantasy VII Remake - Review Thread (MetaCritic: 88 | OpenCritic: 89)
- Thread starter BZL8
- Start date
You see, it's the quest design part that really grinds my gears. Do the Square Enix devs just not play 90+ metacritic games? Like, learn from people who did it better than you!!!
I mean you have BOTW as one of the most critically acclaimed games... I love the game by the way but it has some of the worst quests ever. You also have Odyssey which consists of mostly filler. If other areas of the game are excellent it can make up for lack of meaningful quests.
The crazy part is that OG FF7 got side quest design right. Almost all the side quests were relatively hidden but not totally impossible to find and emphasized some kind of additional challenge. They were hugely rewarding either through giving the player a character moment or a powerful reward or both (think the wutai pagoda). We didn't need all these hunts and padded out stuff. It's all in the service of boosting the play time in a very non meaningful way.
And just a bit of a rant but man the OG FF7 is probably a 35 hour journey that if you do EVERY SINGLE SIDE QUEST pads out to 45 hours. FF7R is 10% of the OG game padded out to be almost the same length as the OG game was but for almost no real benefit other than to make people feel better about spending 60 dollars when they look at their final play time I guess.
12-15 hours in. The game is really growing on me. I could see it getting high 8 to low 9 if it keeps this up
Not for nothing, but Square Enix released a 90+ Metacritic Final Fantasy game with last gen quest design just about 9 months ago.
Shadowbringers, yes. Which also features hundreds of bad fetch quests.
It's outdated as hell, but literally every other element of the game is utterly fantastic. Music, graphics, presentation, combat, narrative. It's a perfect storm of everything *but* quest design, really.
I've played about 14 hours and I'd be surprised if the metacritic is higher than 85. Huge problems with pacing and mission structure.
It was but MMO quest design is not something people expect much from, for their SP AAA RPG they could break the piggybank and come up with something great, if they wanted to.
I am absolutely in love with the game. Genuinely feel that it was made for me.
That being said I don't think it's breaking the 90 barrier. Around 85 is what I would predict about ten house in.
Although I really don't agree with what was said above about the pacing. It has very good pacing in my opinion which is mainly fast but slows down when it needs to.
That being said I don't think it's breaking the 90 barrier. Around 85 is what I would predict about ten house in.
Although I really don't agree with what was said above about the pacing. It has very good pacing in my opinion which is mainly fast but slows down when it needs to.
Agree on the music, everything else is a mixed bag for me. Especially the combat is extremely boring for overworld content. Just doing the same rotation over and over again without any need for positioning or strategy.
You can not like the change, i'm okay with that. It just shouldn't affect your review score. I can't give an 8 instead of an 9 because i didn't like the last 30 Minutes of a 35 Hour game. At least that's my understanding.
FF12 ending was boring and unspectacular af, but it's still an absolutely amazing game.
I get what youre saying and i agree to an extent, its just difficult to review this game from my end anyway without totally being taken over with nostalgia
ff7 isnt my favoirite in the series (9 is ) but i still hold it quite highly
if i was to review the remake without nostalgia as hard as it is, it would be about an 8 at most. its inconsistent at best but still a thrilling ride with high production values. however with nostalgia it easily bumps up to a 9.
But its also difficult if a change occurs that affects
your entire expectation of what this project may or may not be
I spoiler above because i think its heading that way anyway, but it doesnt spoil anything in particular
Thats just where i stand on it personally
I would go so far as to say there is no real combat in the overworld. There are monsters to give some semblance of life to the area, not to act as real threats. No open-world mob takes more than twenty seconds to kill.
The game effectively boils down to boss encounters, and those encounters are glorious.
Anyway, point is, SE needs to get on that modern quest design train.
Always had pretty low to middling expectations for this. From the troubled development to Square turning it into an episodic game and then also knowing because of that they've taken 10% of the original and tried to make it 30+ hours.
Nostalgia alone won't carry it with all reviewers if it has issues. Shenmue 3 was handled without complete blinders on. I know FF7 is the industry baby, but I just don't think it'll break 90 on MC. Not part 1 anyway. We'll see. If it's anything like FF15 it'll probably need about 50 patches before Square say it's complete lol.
Nostalgia alone won't carry it with all reviewers if it has issues. Shenmue 3 was handled without complete blinders on. I know FF7 is the industry baby, but I just don't think it'll break 90 on MC. Not part 1 anyway. We'll see. If it's anything like FF15 it'll probably need about 50 patches before Square say it's complete lol.
I feel that this game deserves to be in the 9/10 category. Production values are insane, well written dialogue and great characterisation. Great set pieces and the combat system is amazing when you get a flow going. I do honestly feel free aim should have been the standard option as it adds another level of complexity to the combat positioning.
The expansion of the story is also handled pretty well with some great additions. I would argue that the side quests so far are not amazing but they are so few and far between that they just feel like nice opportunities to grind and explore a bit. A few of the new additions to the story feel like a side quest from a game like the Witcher, except compulsory and I dont mind that at all. I guess making some of them optional could have worked in its favour? I have no issues with the pacing so far though and that's coming from someone who was concerned with the game being Midgar focused.
I do have a lot of nostalgia for the original and that makes me dislike a few elements but trying to be as objective as I can, the only real criticism I can think of is the side quests but again, they just feel like extra in an already amazing package. I guess it depends what your expectations are for a final fantasy game, it's very linear but I dont see that as a fault where as some people might.
The expansion of the story is also handled pretty well with some great additions. I would argue that the side quests so far are not amazing but they are so few and far between that they just feel like nice opportunities to grind and explore a bit. A few of the new additions to the story feel like a side quest from a game like the Witcher, except compulsory and I dont mind that at all. I guess making some of them optional could have worked in its favour? I have no issues with the pacing so far though and that's coming from someone who was concerned with the game being Midgar focused.
I do have a lot of nostalgia for the original and that makes me dislike a few elements but trying to be as objective as I can, the only real criticism I can think of is the side quests but again, they just feel like extra in an already amazing package. I guess it depends what your expectations are for a final fantasy game, it's very linear but I dont see that as a fault where as some people might.
How long did it take you to roll credits? With or without doing most side content?
Initially, from the various demo impressions, I thought it'd hit around 90/91, but the more full game reactions and vaguing about the spoiler thread I see, the less confident I get -- especially since SE hasn't managed a solo FF breaking that 90 score threshold in almost 15 years. If FF7R was gonna be the one to do it, I think there'd be more firmer positive vibes already.
So given that, I'mma settle my score guess around ~85; minimum 83, max 88. 🤔
So given that, I'mma settle my score guess around ~85; minimum 83, max 88. 🤔
We really shouldn't even be hinting at stuff like this in the review thread. I'm sure there's another thread for that.
Final Fantasy VII is one of my top 5 games of all time.
Having played about 15 hours I would be shocked if this gets higher than low 80s, and that's only because of nostalgia. The quest and dungeon design is atrocious. The tone of the original is only there in glimpses. The battle system is okay once you figure out how it works (the game does a very poor job of explaining it). The additional story is very hit and miss. The new characters are awful and the changes to some existing characters completely ruin their mystique. One of the biggest issues though is constantly having to squeeze through gaps or hold a button to open a door. Developers have had two generations of dealing with the slow speeds of mechanical drives and adapting their level design. This might be the worst example of those compromises ever.
I'm very close to stopping playing as I just find the whole thing very frustrating. Only occasionally has a certain scene or segment pulled me back in.
Having played about 15 hours I would be shocked if this gets higher than low 80s, and that's only because of nostalgia. The quest and dungeon design is atrocious. The tone of the original is only there in glimpses. The battle system is okay once you figure out how it works (the game does a very poor job of explaining it). The additional story is very hit and miss. The new characters are awful and the changes to some existing characters completely ruin their mystique. One of the biggest issues though is constantly having to squeeze through gaps or hold a button to open a door. Developers have had two generations of dealing with the slow speeds of mechanical drives and adapting their level design. This might be the worst example of those compromises ever.
I'm very close to stopping playing as I just find the whole thing very frustrating. Only occasionally has a certain scene or segment pulled me back in.
Seven hours in, my impression is this Remake excels at its most linear, focused areas, adhering to the main scenario with a mix of fancy visuals, satisfying action and a surprising amount of heart/character; however, on the opposite side, it utterly falters in its approach to quest/open-world design, exhibiting a collection of asinine, outdated concepts, for the sake of serving us more combat and prolonging its length. Due to this disparity in execution, I'd be tempted to tag the experience as a two-sided affair; fortunately, the game sticks much closer to the former levels, and though a better excuse for running around its lively world would have been welcome, it's hard to be extra negative with the whole product because of a small, yet uninspired, portion of it.
The second element I'm a bit conflicted about is the blunt form in which the convoluted array of subplots have been rearranged this time. FF VII always had a diffuse, even confusing approach to its many points of conflict. Instead of introducing them since the beginning, they became present gradually, at times appearing more like afterthoughts, rather than fully developed concepts. What started as the relatively small story of a eco-terrorist cell struggling in a big city went on growing in multiple directions until reaching (inevitably) a universal scale. Amid all this there were political conspiracies, troubled relations between countries, personal dramas, etcetera.
With this Remake, the studio has chosen to tackle these elements frontally, integrating them as natural parts of the main scenario, in a traceable relation of cause and effect. In general, I see this as a positive idea; it makes on paper for a richer narrative, and after all, knowing how every story moves forward, it seems justified to reintroduce these secondary lines with a degree of importance aligned to their weight. It's also probably better to expand on these plots from the start, as it is the motto with this version (for good or bad, creating nuance and detail where before there was nothing), than repeating similar tricks of dripping information, for an audience that already lived that.
The problem I'm feeling with their approach is that there are so many subplots here in need of presentation (and some following later if they have to converge somehow) that at times these underlying stories come unexpectedly to the foreground and disrupt the tone and pacing sustained in previous sequences of the main story. I'm satisfied, therefore, with their intention to converge old and new ideas under a more digestible format, but sometimes, it happens to pass curtly, in a very sudden and forceful way.
The second element I'm a bit conflicted about is the blunt form in which the convoluted array of subplots have been rearranged this time. FF VII always had a diffuse, even confusing approach to its many points of conflict. Instead of introducing them since the beginning, they became present gradually, at times appearing more like afterthoughts, rather than fully developed concepts. What started as the relatively small story of a eco-terrorist cell struggling in a big city went on growing in multiple directions until reaching (inevitably) a universal scale. Amid all this there were political conspiracies, troubled relations between countries, personal dramas, etcetera.
With this Remake, the studio has chosen to tackle these elements frontally, integrating them as natural parts of the main scenario, in a traceable relation of cause and effect. In general, I see this as a positive idea; it makes on paper for a richer narrative, and after all, knowing how every story moves forward, it seems justified to reintroduce these secondary lines with a degree of importance aligned to their weight. It's also probably better to expand on these plots from the start, as it is the motto with this version (for good or bad, creating nuance and detail where before there was nothing), than repeating similar tricks of dripping information, for an audience that already lived that.
The problem I'm feeling with their approach is that there are so many subplots here in need of presentation (and some following later if they have to converge somehow) that at times these underlying stories come unexpectedly to the foreground and disrupt the tone and pacing sustained in previous sequences of the main story. I'm satisfied, therefore, with their intention to converge old and new ideas under a more digestible format, but sometimes, it happens to pass curtly, in a very sudden and forceful way.
Doing as much side content as I could find, taking knees, dying a fair bit, and leaving the game idle for a long while (in-game; inside the menu pauses the timer after about two minutes) ... just under 40 hours.
I would estimate anywhere between 25-30 for a normal playthrough. Might be a bit low - not sure.
Around what I expected for a part that was originally about 5-7 hrs long. I'm glad there's plenty to do. It'll probably take me around that much to go through as well because that's how I play. Good to know, thanks for the reply!
I have a few questions, can you only get materia through that kid/side quests or can you find materia on the ground/chests/enemies like the original?
does the game ever force you to do a certain amount of side quests to progress the main story?
Some Final Fantasy games in the past got over 90% Metacritic with only 20-25 reviews, so honestly it's unfair to compare them with a game that will have 80+ reviews.
No to the first question (you find Materia around the stage or in other circumstances); also no, as far as I know, to the latter.
You can find materia on the ground as treasure. Also you can buy more from shops.
I've been doing all the side quests but I'm pretty sure there has always been the option to just continue with the main scenario.
20 hours in, the game didn't force me to do any sidequest so far, I'm on chapter 9 doing everything though.
You can find materias on the ground or in shops, not sure about enemies I didn't pay attention lol
but the kid unlocks exclusive materias you can't find anywhere else, even some
summons
Most standard magic materia is on the ground. Much of the specialised individual materia is through the kid, related to performing battle related tasks.
There might be some related to sidequests, but honestly, I can only recall one. It's a good one though.
There might be some related to sidequests, but honestly, I can only recall one. It's a good one though.
Yes BUT it's as non-invasive as it can possibly be. You need to do one sidequest in an early chapter (you have multiple choices as to what to do), and maybe one for a later chapter, identical situation. But I don't recall the second one being mandatory.
The rest are optional, or in the case of one certain chapter's content, they are main quest related.
The rest are optional, or in the case of one certain chapter's content, they are main quest related.
Just started it, finished with chapter 4 and no padding yet. I honestly love what they're doing with it and expanding hugely on characters and the world. I don't think making the game closer to the original where you traverse a potential huge city and scenario in barely 4-5 hours nowadays would make for a great impression. This is not 1997 with bitmap backgrounds, things need to be fleshed out more to feel satisfying. For me they're going for the right route staging this first game entirely in Midgard. Nostalgia can be a bit of a problem I fear. I'm sure many new gamers will like this new main FF alot more. I'm not a new gamer but I already like it more than the past 3 main FFs o played. It really feels like a new complete game and I'm very happy about it.
So how did they increase midgar from 7 hrs to 30 hrs? Do you have to destroy every reactor or something?
I don't like that, the kid is basically a series of side quests isn't he? So I have to do 10 - 30 side quests to obtain certain materia? Or is that not how he works
is some of the best materia in the game behind him?
No, they're combat challenges, similar to achievements for other games, updated and unlocked while you go on at your own pace through the story.
I wouldn't really say they're side quest. You just need to do some things in combat to unlock the materia like analysing certain enemies or stagger them a number of times. I just played normally and i already unlocked most of them,
This is going to be interesting to see how it reviews.
So far for me for everything it does well it then has something which is less great.
At the same time this is balanced out by a lot of great work put into the main characters.
My guess, i feel like if this reviews over 80 I'd be very surprised. There are a lot of technical issues so far and also very dated design which I think will really weigh it down in reviewers eyes. I also think nostalgia might work against it due to certain changes.
Though at the same time the music is fantastic, seeing characters you like this represented with such visual care, seeing environments that were pre-rendered in full 3d. I really don't know. It is an odd game. I still have a fair bit to play so I might change my own opinion but so far it is a game with some really cool highs followed by mid tier design choices.
So far for me for everything it does well it then has something which is less great.
This is exactly where I am at the moment. A lot of nice stuff but the overall design of the static environements (no interactivity) and things like slow walk, slide through this debris feels very dated. Plus the weird texture loading issues and flat day lighting really brings it down visually.
I can almost guarantee no reviewer will say this. A lot of the npcs look really rough, even quest giver npcs do not look good.
At the same time this is balanced out by a lot of great work put into the main characters.
My guess, i feel like if this reviews over 80 I'd be very surprised. There are a lot of technical issues so far and also very dated design which I think will really weigh it down in reviewers eyes. I also think nostalgia might work against it due to certain changes.
Though at the same time the music is fantastic, seeing characters you like this represented with such visual care, seeing environments that were pre-rendered in full 3d. I really don't know. It is an odd game. I still have a fair bit to play so I might change my own opinion but so far it is a game with some really cool highs followed by mid tier design choices.
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Don't worry they're not sidequests, just stuff you have to do in battle, like stun 5 enemies or using assess on a certain number of enemies, or defeat an enemy in a certain way. You'll basically be doing most of them naturally in battle.