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Should this thread contain open spoilers?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1,406 73.4%
  • No

    Votes: 510 26.6%

  • Total voters
    1,916
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Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
10,416
Bad comparison. Tales worlds are actually bland, FFXII zones are fine. Do you just want a zoomed out world view with a small Vaan sprite connecting Zone Rabanstre to Zone Dalmasca Estersand or something? That's the only purpose most overworlds serve.


No. None of them even seem worth expanding in size beyond like Cosmo Canyon and Junon.
wutai need to be bigger they fought against shinra and they are kicking their buts before sephiroth and gold saucer needs to be bigger because players like that place, the rest i agree.
i also want that they fix the scale thing like with the ship in real life those things are very big, that looked like a small boat and it docks in a small harbor in costa, its probably this at minimum since its an army ship
and the lenght of the smallest one is 200m/653 ft
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,758
All y'all coming in here and hoping for a world with no playable vehicles are hurting my soul.

This game never should've been greenlit if they can't do it right. The progressive expansion of the world as unlocked by the player getting access to vehicles is something you can't just cut without damaging a huge part of what made the game special.
 
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OP
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,591
Why would the overworld not be similar to XV? It is a formula that allowed vehicle transportation of its continent? It was a little boring but that had more to do with moment to moment design than anything. What I suspect will be modified are towns with ones like Kalm being small. I would be surprised if assets aren't through an outsourced collaboration for future parts as there is a lot of assets to produce and this is the exact type of reason for outsourcing. The only thing I might zone out if designing in this way is entrance into larger towns or areas in the game to allow these to load assets through separate from the main map.

Nomura made it sound like he isnt a fan of huge open worlds. Its hard to fill them with fun content and open world is extremely common now.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,279
Learning the speedrun taught me 3 things

1: You can beat all of Midgar using only Grenades
2: Aqualung and Big Guard are the two most OP skills in the game
3: Once Tifa gets the Powersoul, NO MAN, NO BEAST, NO GOD CAN STAND IN HER WAY
Slowrun with Vincent getting 60,000 kills is the superior playthrough. Forget Tifa!

Wutai is supposed to be a capital city >:|
Oh right that place. Capital of what though nothing else is even around it!!
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,474
If Square really wants to spend over a decade remaking one game, they deserve all the shit they get from fans for bad management. This shit needs to be over with soon so the company can move on.
They made XIII games for a decade and not many people seem to even like them. For one of their most revered games, I wouldn't put it past them for when they say multi-part, they're considering much more than a trilogy.
 
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OP
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,591
All y'all coming in here and hoping for a world with no playable vehicles are hurting my soul.

This game never should've been greenlit if they can't do it right. The progressive expansion of the world as unlocked by the player getting access to vehicles is something you can't just cut without damaging a huge part of what made the game special.

They arent going to cut vehicles. We're just theorizing how they'll be implemented.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,279
All y'all coming in here and hoping for a world with no playable vehicles are hurting my soul.

This game never should've been greenlit if they can't do it right. The progressive expansion of the world as unlocked by the player getting access to vehicles is something you can't just cut without damaging a huge part of what made the game special.
Literally the only special thing about actually controlling the vehicles was ramming Highwind into Ultimate Weapon repeatedly.

Gottem

It's like the "prince of all sayains" of capital cities.

I want it expanded tho
Yeah that was my bad, it's pretty big compared to most areas in the game. I mentioned Cosmo Canyon and it's maybe bigger than that but I just personally want a bigger comfy canyon.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
What about the overworld from that game where It's like an FFVII style overworld that is basically a hub for different zones? Someone brought it up once and everyone liked the idea but then no one brought it up again.
 

ChoklitCow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,189
Muncie, IN
Saw the current Amazon discounts so went to check my old preorder from when Amazon had it's old discounts on games. Was actually a higher price than the current discount.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,758
Literally the only special thing about actually controlling the vehicles was ramming Highwind into Ultimate Weapon repeatedly.

And being able to get to places quickly without having to manually run to them like an idiot. And avoid combat. And being able to land the Highwind and Gold Chocobo (and buggy, once) in places that you can't get on foot, including finding Lucrecia, the Knights of the Round Island, etc.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,279
And being able to get to places quickly without having to manually run to them like an idiot. And avoid combat. And being able to land the Highwind and Gold Chocobo (and buggy, once) in places that you can't get on foot, including finding Lucrecia, the Knights of the Round Island, etc.
You think you need to physically drive the vehicles there to be able to reach those places? --->
They arent going to cut vehicles. We're just theorizing how they'll be implemented.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,758
You think you need to physically drive the vehicles there to be able to reach those places? --->

With modern JRPG design logic, instead, we'll just pick them from a damn list and any sense of exploration and discovery will be completely ruined. "OH BOY, THERE"S A ?????? ON MY WORLD MAP LIST, I WONDER WHAT THAT IS?"

It's dumb. There hasn't been a good JRPG world in fifteen years.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
10,416
Slowrun with Vincent getting 60,000 kills is the superior playthrough. Forget Tifa!


Oh right that place. Capital of what though nothing else is even around it!!
there are villages that you never arrive in the original like banora, probably the world has other villages and those are only the ones that has purpose for the main game
 

OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,113
California
latest

The whole Corel Prison desert area is going to be so cool! The buggy will for sure be in the next part. Something along the lines of FF XV maybe? I have no idea how they are going to do the tiny bronco or the massive highwind.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,279
there are villages that you never arrive in the original like bonara, probably the world has other villages and those are only the ones that has purpose for the main game
Reported for Crisis Core referencing.

With modern JRPG design logic, instead, we'll just pick them from a damn list and any sense of exploration and discovery will be completely ruined. "OH BOY, THERE"S A ?????? ON MY WORLD MAP LIST, I WONDER WHAT THAT IS?"

It's dumb. There hasn't been a good JRPG world in fifteen years.
Or it could be a simplified world map for vehicles that allow manual control like others mentioned.

Not really sure what you're asking for specifically though. FFXIV but replace the flying mounts with the Highwind and remove all loading between areas (zones bad)?
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,474
Anything beyond 3 games is ridiculous
I don't see how that can be done, without the second part representing about most of the entire games' world, I think they will want to end the middle act with either Aeris' death or I think more likely the meteor cliffhanger. Then the final part 3 would feel like hardly any new towns (even if you could convicingly move Wutai to part 3) and since big materia quest is mostly backtracking in the third act.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,758
Or it could be a simplified world map for vehicles that allow manual control like others mentioned.

Not really sure what you're asking for specifically though. FFXIV but replace the flying mounts with the Highwind and remove all loading between areas (zones bad)?

I just don't see how you can reconcile dumb modern JRPG connected-field design with a shorthand overworld map. If you're driving a car and you get out of said car, are you just teleported into a map that looks nothing like the area you were just driving through because it's "as close as you can get" to the point you disembarked the vehicle?

They should just do it like a higher-quality version of the world from the original game. Don't make us run through a bunch of segmented, broken-up chunks of each continent just to get to the actual towns and dungeons.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
I just don't see how you can reconcile dumb modern JRPG connected-field design with a shorthand overworld map. If you're driving a car and you get out of said car, are you just teleported into a map that looks nothing like the area you were just driving through because it's "as close as you can get" to the point you disembarked the vehicle?

They should just do it like a higher-quality version of the world from the original game. Don't make us run through a bunch of segmented, broken-up chunks of each continent just to get to the actual towns and dungeons.

Why do you even want a full planet. Just so you can smash it?
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,800
United Kingdom
Maybe part 2 will still have the world to explore (as it's a big part of the original) but won't be as story driven or dense as part 1's Midgar, except for a few key story moments.

Then part 3 will be more focused / story driven again, as it reaches the ending and then post game will be free to explore the world some more and take on the hidden bosses ect.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,758
Why do you even want a full planet. Just so you can smash it?

Because the story is a globetrotting adventure. I don't like the idea of them scaling up Midgar like crazy and then scaling DOWN the size and feel of the rest of the world.

And I just also really, truly hate modern JRPG field design. It's repetitive and bland and always feels like playable filler.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,279
I just don't see how you can reconcile dumb modern JRPG connected-field design with a shorthand overworld map. If you're driving a car and you get out of said car, are you just teleported into a map that looks nothing like the area you were just driving through because it's "as close as you can get" to the point you disembarked the vehicle?

They should just do it like a higher-quality version of the world from the original game. Don't make us run through a bunch of segmented, broken-up chunks of each continent just to get to the actual towns and dungeons.
Well for the first point, you could just disable disembarking? Get on a vehicle at a world location, enter map, drive it somewhere an disembark.

And what does the high quality version of the original look like? Just a visual upscale or is there anything else added? You were (rightfully) calling Tales worlds bland but I don't see a beautified version of the original being that interesting either. Of course it would look much better than a simplified map but I don't know how much I gain from ignoring it either way to fly from point a to b.

Especially for the parts that come before flight I'm more than ok with what XII did. Frankly I don't see a huge difference in practice between [leave Fort Condor and enter portion of the world map that is barren between Fort Condor and Junon] and [leave Fort Condor and enter 'Junon Plains' zone that links Fort Condor and Junon]
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,437
Then the final part 3 would feel like hardly any new towns (even if you could convicingly move Wutai to part 3) and since big materia quest is mostly backtracking in the third act
This is why I think there won't/shouldn't be three parts, because you have to do most of the map in the first half of the game.

Even once they commit to a design vision for how the world is built it's hard to see how they cut it all up. If it's an open world game then you have to delay for ages the Tiny Bronco section or make it's access extremely limited. If it's a linear game then they could cut it up, but they might as well not at that point.

I strongly feel that it won't be a big open world. It feels out of place here, I don't see it happening.
 

Whittaker

Member
Jun 21, 2018
812
The Sephiroth illusion is in Midgar not the Shinra mansion.

And I doubt they're going to move the Nibelheim flashback. That flashback will be the perfect opener for Part 2.

Say!

If part 1 logically ends after the freeway escape and on the outskirts of Midgar and part 2 is developed and treated like a 'dash-2' sequel. (Independent title, released faster and cheaper because the core gameplay loop and a bunch of assets are already built). Then, if you think about it, having the Nibelheim flashback start the game makes for a perfect reintroduction/tutorial level…

Your 'how combat works' is the monster the SOLDIERs in the truck encounter at the side of the road. Sephiroth walks you through it and it also allows for a power level reset AND a ludonarrative demonstration of how intimidatingly OP Sephiroth is.

Make the rest of the flashback a fairly lengthy affair and when you're finally back in the present and in gameplay there, the stat/item reset feels like a more natural transition with the flashback serving as an entr'acte—a pause both to reset for the next part of the story AND to put the necessary props/mechanics/sets/tone into place.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,381
I want the subsequent episodes to have a giant open-world with roads and vehicules to use FFXV-style. Let me drive around the world in the motorcycle that Cloud steals at the end of Midgar.

Also, imagine how amazing a FFXV-style open-world would look on next-gen SSD-abled consoles, and designed by the wizards working on Remake.

I need that.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,279
I want the subsequent episodes to have a giant open-world with roads and vehicules to use FFXV-style. Let me drive around the world in the motorcycle that Cloud steals at the end of Midgar.

Also, imagine how amazing a FFXV-style open-world would look on next-gen SSD-abled consoles, and designed by the wizards working on Remake.

I need that.
Not canon, idea denied. Go play that...whatever that zombie ps4 game with the motorcycle was called!
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
10,416
I just don't see how you can reconcile dumb modern JRPG connected-field design with a shorthand overworld map. If you're driving a car and you get out of said car, are you just teleported into a map that looks nothing like the area you were just driving through because it's "as close as you can get" to the point you disembarked the vehicle?

They should just do it like a higher-quality version of the world from the original game. Don't make us run through a bunch of segmented, broken-up chunks of each continent just to get to the actual towns and dungeons.
i agree with you but knowing square do you really believe they will use a traditional world map? the last FF game to use that was released 18 years ago, i would love, but i prefer at least the ???? like dq 11 than no worldmap, and highwind is just a teleport machine like ff12.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,675
Because the story is a globetrotting adventure. I don't like the idea of them scaling up Midgar like crazy and then scaling DOWN the size and feel of the rest of the world.

And I just also really, truly hate modern JRPG field design. It's repetitive and bland and always feels like playable filler.
Midgar is really one of the few areas that matter, so I don't mind them building up Midgar. It's a sprawling mega city with a huge conglomerate, tons of citizens, massive mass transit, and so on. You also revisit it.

No other town compares.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,764
England
I feel like it's inevitable it ends up working like DQ11 and Lost Odyssey, to be honest. A world map you can only drive on with vehicles, where you can only stop and 'disembark' at marked areas that lead to a regular game zone.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,758
Well for the first point, you could just disable disembarking? Get on a vehicle at a world location, enter map, drive it somewhere an disembark.

And what does the high quality version of the original look like? Just a visual upscale or is there anything else added? You were (rightfully) calling Tales worlds bland but I don't see a beautified version of the original being that interesting either. Of course it would look much better than a simplified map but I don't know how much I gain from ignoring it either way to fly from point a to b.

I mean, if you disable disembarking then you're basically taking player freedom away and have essentially turned the vehicle into a vaguely playable loading screen. I would say if you scale up the original game's overworld (don't remake it one to one, but use it as a basis and go from there) and let the player run around and find secret areas and hidden items. You can even have enemies pop up on the overworld that you can strike with the Buster Sword to initiate combat or avoid.

i agree with you but knowing square do you really believe they will use a traditional world map? the last FF game to use that was released 18 years ago, i would love, but i prefer at least the ???? like dq 11 than no worldmap, and highwind is just a teleport machine like ff12.

Yeah, it sucks. We're going to lose no matter what. This is why I think the project should've never been greenlit.

Midgar is really one of the few areas that matter, so I don't mind them building up Midgar. It's a sprawling mega city with a huge conglomerate, tons of citizens, massive mass transit, and so on. You also revisit it.

No other town compares.

You revisit Midgar once for one very short sequence that leads immediately into a boss fight. It's actually entirely possible to finish the game without EVER getting the Sector Access Pass and revisiting Midgar proper.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
Because the story is a globetrotting adventure. I don't like the idea of them scaling up Midgar like crazy and then scaling DOWN the size and feel of the rest of the world.

And I just also really, truly hate modern JRPG field design. It's repetitive and bland and always feels like playable filler.

Imagine not being too busy laughing at my joke to respond seriously
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,279
Interesting the game considers the first image to be in Sector 5 despite the door sign. Deep lore.


S7GBujz.png

eNM8hFW.png
 

Whittaker

Member
Jun 21, 2018
812
I want the subsequent episodes to have a giant open-world with roads and vehicules to use FFXV-style. Let me drive around the world in the motorcycle that Cloud steals at the end of Midgar.

Also, imagine how amazing a FFXV-style open-world would look on next-gen SSD-abled consoles, and designed by the wizards working on Remake.

I need that.


That actually might be the strategy and part of the reason the games are broken up where they are:

Part 1: Developed for an eighth generation console with its strengths and weaknesses in mind: Midgar only—a zone based metropolis in order to have better visual and presentation fidelity. (There will of course be ports to the 9th generation with enhancements but the game itself is designed around what the PS4 can do)

Parts 2 and beyond: Developed for Ninth generation consoles: Right when the story goes to the overworld—uses the horsepower and much faster storage to deliver extremely high quality open areas that would have cause the PS4 to struggle.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,474
Maybe part 2 will still have the world to explore (as it's a big part of the original) but won't be as story driven or dense as part 1's Midgar, except for a few key story moments.

Then part 3 will be more focused / story driven again, as it reaches the ending and then post game will be free to explore the world some more and take on the hidden bosses ect.
I could be wrong but I think they're splitting it up for for practical reasons as well as maybe creative, so I'll be suprised if part 2 has both the western, eastern continents and northern continents which are all in the second act if you go for a trilogy structure.

It's going to be really interesting how they might carve up the planet Gaia more evenly and still try to have a satisfying strory in each part.
 
May 26, 2018
24,103
TBH they should have some form of overworld. After all, the Planet is a character and should have a physical presence, especially when Meteor is in the sky and that apocalypse music is playing. Dwonnnnn...
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,675
I don't know why you're so focused on towns PlanetSmasher

DQXI had pretty nice towns, but they were eh. Midgar in the remake looks amazing, though. I'd rather one well-developed town than dozens of big towns with nothing to do.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
I feel weird even thinking of FFVII as open world. I guess technically it is, but it's more of a linear progressed world where all the areas happen to connect and exist in one place and you can backtrack.
 

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 25, 2017
10,585
I think it's kinda Impossible to know How the second game will work. It's a next gen game probably so really hard to predict the standards we Will have on PS5 for this kind of stuff.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
What if the overworld was created in 3D but it was just a small world? Or is that what you guys were already thinking would be incredibly hard? Idk
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
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Oct 25, 2017
116,758
I don't know why you're so focused on towns PlanetSmasher

DQXI had pretty nice towns, but they were eh. Midgar in the remake looks amazing, though. I'd rather one well-developed town than dozens of big towns with nothing to do.

I'm not focused on towns. I'm focused on ensuring the devs preserve the breadth and diversity of the game world. Final Fantasy VII is not a game about Midgar, it's a game about the Planet and the people that live all over it. Junon is important, as Nibelheim is important and Rocket Town is important. Even Costa Del Sol is important.

And you need scale to suit those things. A bunch of bland, disjointed field maps that act as filler between the towns and dungeons not only makes the world lose its sense of scale entirely, but it also devalues the dungeons themselves. If every time you aren't in a town you're just basically in a "dungeon", then what's the point of any of the dungeons themselves? This is a problem FFXII and Tales and other JRPGs were never really able to solve.
 

LowParry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,743
I think it's kinda Impossible to know How the second game will work. It's a next gen game probably so really hard to predict the standards we Will have on PS5 for this kind of stuff.

This. Speculate all you want but part 2 is going into next gen. Who the hell knows what we're going to get. But if it turns out to be open world, I think it'll be in a good place for it. Exciting times.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,800
United Kingdom
I could be wrong but I think they're splitting it up for for practical reasons as well as maybe creative, so I'll be surprised if part 2 has both the western, eastern continents and northern continents which are all in the second act if you go for a trilogy structure.

It's going to be really interesting how they might carve up the planet Gaia more evenly and still try to have a satisfying story in each part.

Yeah, probably right. I'm guessing part 2 and 3 (if 3 is the last part) will both have a good balance of story and world to explore.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,437
I'm thinking planetsmasher only wants an open world cause he's Sephiroth and wants to smash it with a meteor 🙂
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
I think it's kinda Impossible to know How the second game will work. It's a next gen game probably so really hard to predict the standards we Will have on PS5 for this kind of stuff.

If they have restraint to keep the same graphical fidelity as FFVII PS4 to keep PS5 resources open for other technical stuff then I could see them getting that highwind shit to work.
 
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