You'll get part 2 3-4 years from now, the remake should be done by the end of the gen
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FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE developers talk Midgar, Red XIII and more (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Chaserjoey
- Start date
no need to apologise, sorry if it came across condescending, it wasn't meant to :)
Assuming future parts will be next gen titles they will be able to render the whole world of FF7 in full scale. Take a look at this:
Lorville is a city in Star Citizen. SC is a great taste of next gen scale potential. SC requires an SSD and beefy specs. With next gen specs they could render all of the FF7 world and let you fly around too. It's all possible now. If its a cross gen title then yeah PS4 cant handle this.
oh and on Aeris, I think there is a chance they might make that a branching story moment in the remake. I just played the original and I see no reason why they couldn't do it. The story would change but not substantially. Aeris can use Holy while alive, use lifestream while alive, or whatever. It would be the ultimate troll, the ultimate spoiler event on gamers that always bench Aeris because they think she is a waste to build up.
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yeah i would think Square wants it the be consistently graphically the same.. otherwise if PART 2 is on ps5 its just not gonna be. It kind of makes be wish they would have just made PART 1 as a ps5 launch title but of course square would be worried about the number of ps5s out there.. I'm thinking they are expecting to sale at minimum 10 million of this game, even 20 million in its life time once its on xbox and pc. I'm sure their will be at least 10-30 million ps5s out there by the time part 2 is finished.
Like the original they will be selling the finished game with all parts for decades. It will be interesting to see the final overworld design. But you're probably right that part 2 will be a cross gen title, then part 3 (just assuming 3 parts) will be a PS5 only title. But since the overworld is made they won't do the full open world at that point. We're probably stuck waiting for the remake remake in 20 years. But they could surprise us with a full open world PS5 title too.
How are they going to handle leveling through 2 or 3 games? Levels reset or level cap in the first game or something else?
First part PS4. Second part cross gen. Full (1,2,3) on one package for PS5.
Oh boy are you in for a surprise then. Uh....yeah that's not how Sephiroth is being handled in this version. I parted ways with that a long time ago.
None of the promotional material has said anything about a direct confrontation in this one. All visions.
Where are you getting that from? Leaks?
If fighting is all you need for a confrontation then I guess I'm wrong, but if you think it's still going to be a chase it's not. It's directly talking to and confronting the cast and characters almost constantly by the looks of it.
You have to also remember that the Seph images are almost confirmed to be Jenova in the theme song trailer, and there is at least one Jenova fight confirmed, so "direct confrontation" is splitting hairs at that point. For all intents and purposes his presence is completely changed.
I would love this scale but I don't think it will be that big. We saw the FFXV world become hard to deal with at large scale because it was a chore to travel and nothing to see. Even with Kalm and Chocobo Ranch having a map that big for just those two locales wouldn't be really cost efficient in my eyes or resource efficient. That being said this would be a dream to have a world map of this scale, so long as there were interesting things inbetween landmarks.
To the Spoiler though
"The story would change but not substantially"
Uh...sure. Sure it wouldn't.
Kitase: "Obviously nowadays, of course, everyone knows who Sephiroth is, so I thought we didn't really need to go quite as far to hold him back and to hide so much."; "Looking at the the remake overall, it's clear that Sephiroth is going to be this massive presence overarching throughout the whole of the story, and this rival of Cloud's throughout the whole story. So I really felt I want to include that in this first game in the project, to really have that feeling of him as a really clear presence right from the start.
They could also go the beyond good and evil 2 approach. That game is using hand crafted locals placed on procedurally generated planets that you can explore the entirety of. So like 50 percent hand crafted 50 percent procedural
I mean at this point let's do it. Bring in Deepground. Bring in Genesis. Let's go all in.
Pretty sure it has more to do with many of us not trusting SE to add new additional content thats worthwhile given their recent output more so than it couldn't ve expanded.
It's not silly, though. It's an important consideration to ensure there is onboarding for new players. Like, EA/BioWare marketed Mass Effect 2 and even 3 as perfect places for series newcomers, and SE will do the same with further parts of FF7R.
I still don't understand that. I mean I get it from a marketing/PR/business perspective but I don't know any film that would go "Oh yeah you can totally jump in on Two Towers, there's like 3 pieces of dialogue that reference the first one the rest is all extra." I don't know why gaming does it beyond money.
I do think that they're going to do it like ME though, you're probably right. They're not going to say anything about it but be reset every new entry.
I have no doubt there will be "more" and plenty of "more" to go around judging by the Airbuster mission being stretched and the bombing mission being elongated.
We'll clearly get some Turks and SOLDIER stuff too, but as for gameplay we'll have to see. I was going to say at least majority of the story won't be DLC or need a movie to explain like FFXV, but then I realized this is just part one and we'll be buying the rest, so lol.
Any gear you get at the end of Pt. 1 would have to be made redundant relatively quickly in Pt. 2 to keep progression satisfying and to continue to incentivize exploration, side content.
Consider console hopping, playing on PS4 and then switching to PC, etc.
I mean the answer is pretty simple: if you only market/build your game for the people who played previous parts, your audience can only go down. SE got burned with this in a big way with the FF13 trilogy, too - they expected a drop-off from game to game, but what they got, over a 50% decline each time, was brutal.
Mass Effect managed to grow with each entry while also providing a satisfying ongoing experience for those who had played the previous game, and that should be the template for SE. BioWare had to work really hard to make a system where you could have a lore-justified stat reset if you wanted, or carry stats over, or start from scratch. As mentioned, FF7 has a few natural ways to build this out, though - starting with a flashback in game 2, having Yuffie steal materia, or starting when Cloud is missing with Tifa as the party leader, etc.
Those elements don't make the story "the best for hopping in at" though. Like NEwcomers coming into ME2, I can't imagine what that would have been like. I jumped into Witcher 3 and I think it did a good job of being a standalone title but something like ME trilogy (up until the end) I can't even begin to think of how less of an experience that would be compared to starting with it and ending with it. To each their own though I guess.
Right that's why I said "I get it from a marketing business perspective." I know why they do it. Because money/sales. I'm just laughing at a theoretical experience of someone going "Oh yeah you can totally jump in on Revenge of the Sith, it's a great starting point for people new to Star Wars." Mass Effect I'm almost positive I can still find an interview where they said it's a fine place for newcomers to join in on the series. I just don't agree with the statements.
I do think that there is a massive amount of potential being lost if they don't carry over though personally. Having level caps in each game and carrying items over would be better use of resources in my opinion. With the .hack games in PS2 it was really amazing being able to carry my items over and have the proof that I got all the best equipment and stuff from game to game and recruited everyone (even my emails carried over!). Shame that will most likely not happen here.
yeah im sure max level would be 50 or something... there is a picture they released that was suppose to be at the end of the game that they were level 28 with about 40 hours on the clock
PICTURE IM TALKING ABOUT
spoilered just in case lol
I just hope if it is a low cap of say level 30-35 that it still takes a while to get there.. because getting max level too soon will suck... I also REALLY HOPE the Hard-mode unlock once you beat the game rumor is true.
The problem is that it makes all your work in previous episodes pointless. Why do postgame content at all if it can't carry on into the next installment? Why get cool summons if you'll just lose them?
I mean they haven't answered these questions, but in real terms it's unlikely your skills will carry over entirely. They'll need to find an elegant way to do it. But, crucially, SE has been clear on this: this is not an episodic release, it is one story spread across multiple full-sized games. Full-sized games implies stand-alone, so first and foremost they have to be built to stand alone, so each entry will have to be built to work as a self-enclosed project that a complete newcomer could approach and play.
As for the more specific question: why do postgame content at all? To give people something to do outside the story. The idea that postgame content exists only to pep you up the next game doesn't track anyway, as otherwise no stand-alone game with no sequel planned would have any postgame options, as they'd be pointless. But they're not. The postgame content is its own raison d'etre and reward, if it's good.
yeah im sure max level would be 50 or something... there is a picture they released that was suppose to be at the end of the game that they were level 28 with about 40 hours on the clock
PICTURE IM TALKING ABOUT
spoilered just in case lol
soo it could be level 30 is max... its not really known yet I dont think, but I doubt they would let players be level 99, when im sure they will do saves from part 1 to part 2. Or maybe they will and say if you got the level 99 in part 1 and used your save file from that, would just start part 2 at level 35 or something so it wouldn't be a cake walk.
I just hope if it is a low cap of say level 30-35 that it still takes a while to get there.. because getting max level too soon will suck... I also REALLY HOPE the Hard-mode unlock once you beat the game rumor is true.
I wouldn't imagine 30 would be max, as when I played the 4-hour hands-on the 2nd Mako Reactor mission, which in theory would be around halfway through, had the characters around level 17, iirc. You'd naturally hit 30 by the end based on this trajectory but have no overhead for over-leveling which a lot of people do and they'd surely want to allow for.
Honestly, I think the max will probably be level 99 and they'll just worry about the mechanics of a transfer to game 2 in full after this has shipped. It may just be that all that carries over is your story choices, like the affection points between Tifa & Aerith, if that mechanic even still functions the same way.
Reads a bit like "We didn't know people gave such a shit about Nanaki! Well I guess now we know lol!"
"That is why we made Red XIII non-playable in the first episode"
Oh right, something something "unsatisfying experience". Because simply not being able to play him at all isn't even less satisfying.
I'm sorry where did they say Red was cut?"That is why we made Red XIII non-playable in the first episode"
Oh right, something something "unsatisfying experience". Because simply not being able to play him at all isn't even less satisfying.
Sure looks like he's there.
I mean, here's the question. Why waste a bunch of time dicking around doing things in Midgar that don't matter to the story if they won't carry forward into part 2? What if you get Bahamut in part 1? Do you have to earn him all over again in part 2?
I keep saying it, and I mean it - Square did not think this process through at all. Forcing players to repeatedly unlock the same Final Fantasy standards over and over again within the bounds of the same story is ridiculous. No matter how they try to dress it up it just doesn't really make logical or narrative sense to keep booting the player back to square 0 every time a new episode starts.
I'm sorry where did they say Red was cut?
Sure looks like he's there.
You know what I mean, you knew that I know that you know what I meant, and you knew I would say exactly that in response. So why are you wasting our time with this comment?
It would surprise me if you could get things like Bahamut or Knights of the Round in part 1; we literally have no clue how progression will work from game to game, but I highly doubt it'll be the sort of thing where you can fully power up then get it removed. We simply don't know, so the argument that Square is doing this the wrong way doesn't make sense. It could be a Metroid thing where we lose all of our power-ups; there could be a level cap a la .hack; they might just add more stats like an MMO expansion. I highly doubt we'd get Omnislash in this game, for example, and assuming that we'll unlock All The Powerups and then lose them is nothing but speculation, you know?
Plus, this is far from the first time we've seen limits/lack of carryover in gaming. Mass Effect wrote a reason into ME2, but Final Fantasy X-2 had no reason for anything other than the aeons, The Witcher doesn't bring all of your stats over, and so on. Even if we were to get completely reset to level 1 in Part 2, this isn't completely unusual.
I'll take "this happens in almost any direct story sequel" for 500 Alex.
Hope you never play Metroid, or Persona, or Mass Effect, or Final Fantasy, or........
I am of the mind that the game shouldn't allow for overlevelling at all, and that's someone who always overlevels in JRPGs.
The new fight system and mechanics make levelling less relevant as you're not making your characters take (as many) hits and take turns as often. The big scaling for the player should be (and appears to be) materia and weapon skills to buff yourself and your party. Having the cap be 30 but being able to "grind" abilities is a more fruitful approach because it allows for build diversity instead of just "big numbers get bigger."
Again though I think the idea of nothing carrying over is garbage, unless they somehow just give you the same summons but reset them in the next game.
It's a big problem. I keep hoping they'll say sike and the additional games will be purchasable as downloads but I know that won't fly with Square.
I imagine since there's so few "good" summons in FF7's Midgar portion and them making summons just for show in boss fights anyways (instead of mega magic) that they MIGHT put Bahamut 1 in part 1, Neo in part 2, and Zero in part 3 if they're following suit. I can't imagine them selling a "full" Final Fantasy without at least Bahamut's first iteration in the game.
Mass Effect 1 had a complete story, Midgar will be ending literally on a huge cliffhanger with barely a fraction of the story touched upon. The Temple of Ancients, Meteor, Black Materia, Holy, Aeris's fate, etc are all huge things that won't be in this part, and we all know it because we know the original. It's not like Mass Effect in the slightest. That's part of why people have a lot of apprehension about it. This is uncharted territory for everyone, because it's taking the game and cutting it up, and it's not unreasonable for people to be wary of how they're doing that, since they don't even seem to know how they're doing it.
Witcher 3 is a separate numbered title from its predecessors, but if we're going with that reasoning it would be like learning Quen in game 1 only to relearn and re-level Quen in Witcher 2 and 3. Except times 10 because it's not just 4 signs, it's materia, magic, weapons and summons. That's a lot of backtracking if they're starting it over every game. And Leaves less room to have a "complete" list of weapons and magic.
What if someone wants to use the buster sword in part 3? Or Ifrit in Part 2? It raises a lot of questions.
I'll take False Equivalency for 1000, Alex.
No matter how they sell it to you FF7R is not a standalone game. It never can be. There are huge integral parts of the story left undone by the end of this game, regardless of the new content that's added. This is a new thing.
These are the same exact characters continuing the same exact plot threads using the same exact weapons/materia/etc. It just isn't the same. I'm not doom and gloom, I'm more morbidly curious than anything, but we need to stop pretending like it's the same thing.
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Persona games are direct story sequels? Could've fooled me. This situation is also very different than typical sequels because it's all quite literally the same journey episode to episode.
Persna 3 FES The Answer. Oh hey all my characters don't have any of there gear and are now back to level 30.
Persona 4 Arena. Oh hey none of my characters have their Ultimate Persona's.
Persona 5 Scramble, see above.
How is it different? What makes it any sillier then any other time this happened? Did Shepherds mission stop being about defeating the Reapers at some point?
Because from a completionist/classic player's side if they restart and or scrap things that means that you will be without summons/items/etc from part 1 for the rest of the game. You can't "complete the collection" so to speak in part 3 because you'll be without the things from part 1, or forced to re-level them. Again this isn't Mass Effect.
They can say it's an "ending" all they want but it's still Act I.
There's a lot of questions about blocking off Ifrit to only players of Part 1 for example, like if it detects your save data and allows them to be unlocked, and other features that can (sort of) make it work, but it's still going to be super frustrating if you get to Part II and all you have is a Buster Sword (or even just the hard edge) and everyone's last weapon and that's it. It kinda kills the whole "we wanted to leave nothing out" when at the end of PArt III you don't have "everything" available. It's a very interesting dilemma.
So any game that doesn't resolve all it's story bits in one go isn't a full game anymore?
Huh you'd figure all the stuff people who complained about Mass Effect before I would have seen that one come up.
Look I get you and PlanetSmasher have had a hate boner for this game since day 1, I get it happens look at me in Pokemon threads over the last two years, but at this point it just feels like your trying to find shit to be mad about.
"A video game sequel ISN'T going to carry over every single level and piece of equipment I had previously?!? That never happens!"
Everyone's talking about how items/materia/weapons would carry over if save transfers were a thing, but I'm actually more interested in how they'd implement enemy scaling to account for that it the event that they did end up doing it.
We can discuss without the personal attacks. I think there's plenty of solutions to the problem without starting from scratch. But your attempt at a personal insult towards myself and another user and over hyperbolizing our points isn't helping.
Mass Effect was a singular game. It then got a sequel. This is part one of a larger game that is being split up. This is how it is. You can say it's the same, but it's objectively not.
Talking about my hate boner when I've been level headed and debating the possibilities with you is a bad look, and makes discussion far worse than users who dare to have a dissenting opinion about a game that many are hyped about.
I'm not "mad" about progress not transferring, I've stated that multiple occasions it would be missed potential and the idea behind "Not leaving anything out" falls short when you lose everything from a previous part. Personally I like the "detect save data" and unlock materia and weapons idea, but if you want to say I have a hate boner instead of trying to find possible solutions you do you, boo.
It's almost like all the summons and materia you worked hard to get in one part SHOULD carry over to the next game. Are Ifrit and Shiva just going to disappear in part 2? What about Bahamut or Odin? These things are important and by knocking the player back to 0 every episode they'll lose access to things they rely on.
It just feels like such a minuscule thing to care about to me, which relies solely on the "it's not a full game" narrative which I've been against for a while now. Like I just don't get the issue, either it carries over, it doesn't and you have to refind it, or they're not there, and that just doesn't feel like a big deal to me because that's ANY sequel in this series to me.
I do apologize if that was to personal, like my edit said I know what it's like to feel distaste for a particular game, I had it for a good while with pokemon. This was me projecting my feelings because this felt like such a small detail to me that seeing the people who I know complain about the game all the time, it just felt like "look at this bitch eating crackers" territory.
But I shouldn't have done that and I'm sorry. I just can't really find much to debate here because I just think we have inherently different philosophies in regards to this game.
Because ideally it will be entertaining and fun to do so? I mean that's why people play games right? That may be a very simplistic way to look at it but nevertheless I think Square as other publishers and developers have in the past, will hope the 'meat' of each new game is satisfying enough that players don't end up caught in the logistics.
I do expect some sort of half way solution though (keep materia but it returns to the level 1 version' or keep weapon and materia level but not character level etc. I mean in the end the ideal situation for any designer is that the main content is good enough players don't mind the solution they come up with. The ideal is Square doesn't wait too long after part 1 is out to reveal what their approach is so people know what to expect way ahead of time. They do find themselves in a tough situation with regards to potential cross-gen saved/clear data in particular.
I mean personally I'm waiting to know just what all summons are in this game first, afterwords it's really hard for me to care as I said above. Either I find them again or I don't. Just feels like any other time there's a sequel.
I get you don't think this is a "full game" or whatever, but I do, so to me it's no different then any other time a new game starts me from scratch. Odd but I'm used to it.
Alternatively they do like SAO Hollow Fragment and start you at level 100 but have the enemies balanced to match so they may as well be level 1.
An enormous part of the original game is the Materia economy. You are constantly faced with weapon and armor decisions to enhance or sacrifice your Materia. Do you use the weapon with 3 unlinked slots with double growth, or do you use the weaker weapon with 3 pairs of linked slots with single growth? Do you use a weapon that's very powerful (Nail Bat, Mop, Parasol, etc) that you can't attach Materia onto? FFVII's combat and growth is leveling up specific Materia to create your own custom builds. It's a clever way of letting the player create their own classes and builds. When you end the game by stripping all of that away from the player, it goes against the Materia economy that made the original game shine.
yeah im sure max level would be 50 or something... there is a picture they released that was suppose to be at the end of the game that they were level 28 with about 40 hours on the clock
PICTURE IM TALKING ABOUT
spoilered just in case lol
soo it could be level 30 is max... its not really known yet I dont think, but I doubt they would let players be level 99, when im sure they will do saves from part 1 to part 2. Or maybe they will and say if you got the level 99 in part 1 and used your save file from that, would just start part 2 at level 35 or something so it wouldn't be a cake walk.
I just hope if it is a low cap of say level 30-35 that it still takes a while to get there.. because getting max level too soon will suck... I also REALLY HOPE the Hard-mode unlock once you beat the game rumor is true.
Yeah that would be good and also everything get carried to the next game. Better than leveling up Cloud 3 times every time. People who skipped 1 can get a boost to level 30.
Ala Parasite Eve Chrysler building but better conceived . I'd be down for that
I do think we have different philosophies you're right, which is why there is debate and public forum to discuss. I'm trying to take a less heated approach myself as I know in previous threads I've drawn the ire of many a user for my takes on the game.
That being said...
If a game is selling me a "complete experience" that they "didn't want to leave anything out" then the problem then comes when they ARE leaving things out of subsequent games. The only issue I have is that people are making a lot of comparisons that don't work for this scenario, because this scenario is uncharted territory. And while providing solutions I've debated the merit of the idea of starting from scratch.
This game is supposed to be "Part 1" of a remake of a full story. I was already against that, sure, but the onus is on the publisher and devs to create logical reasoning and explanation for why, by the end of the game, we don't have everything we would have had in the original game.
Whatever form that takes, I'm curious to see, but I think that starting over from scratch would be a complete let down. This isn't "how every other game has done it" because every other game wasn't done like this. We all know this isn't all of the story, and we all know that this is being split up. If the devs and pubs want to do that, then they have to figure out the solutions to those problems that arise.
Personally I don't mind "re-levelling" but if I'm gated out of content from the first game (like the buster sword) I would be put off from it. I find it counter to the whole design mentality of this being one piece of a whole, and "nothing being left out."
And it's super fine that you don't care, and it may all be for naught come part II, but the concerns being raised are just that: Concerns.
It seems odd to me on a game forum centered on game discussion that any negative opinion is met with almost as much vitriol as a dissenting political discussion. Again you may see them as the same thing as other sequels, and that's fine, but I don't/won't personally.
They can say they put a nice bow and it's a standalone game if they want, but FF7R is Part one of a story. I think missing out on the progression is a missed ability for Square to sell FF7R as "the biggest undertaking in gaming" and passing off progression across games as a selling point, personally, and Ithink it would hold true to the idea that it's part 1.
Again, as people have noted with the XIII trilogy, how many times are you wanting to take the same cast of characters, go through the plot beats that were left out of the original, and re-level them all over again? It's just an odd scenario to be in, and one I look forward to seeing the answers to.
You're already sold on the idea of them charging you at least 120 dollars to get the complete original game, some people aren't. I think things like progression and how they plan on handling that could be an olive branch to the skeptics like myself on deciding if they want to buy into being piecemealed the story.
One of my favorite things about Golden Sun (on the GAMEBOY ADVANCE) was finding out your progress with Isaac's party carried over into GS2. It sucks to think that the GBA and ME back on the OG Xbox can handle progression transferrance better than a lot of modern game design. I know, I know, games are more complicated now, but I still hope there's a way to access it to reward players for buying intoeach game.