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Joo

Member
May 25, 2018
3,876
I don't see how this is such a big deal to anyone.
Jessie is a super minor character and she's gonna die anyway super quickly.
Why not do their best to make her like Cloud? And honestly with the way some people are saying things..... I can't wait to see the people argue about Aerith and Tifa liking Cloud lmao.

Could you please not post spoilers here or at least tag them? I don't care if it's the most minor thing, there's definitely a place for story spoilers and it's not here, twenty-year-old story or not.
 
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ShaggsMagoo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,675
Kingdom hearts ruined Square Enix. This battle system is not good. About to give the classic mode a try, but I don't have a lot of hope.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,372
Most of the impressions outside of Era have been similarly positive.

I don't want to sound too apologetic for any issues the game may have, but Era tends to be a relatively negative place and that should be kept in mind. Doesn't mean you should discount what's being said, though! Critical, even negative, voices are important.
Agreed. I honestly find the forum way too critical and negative for my tastes these days. No one ever seems to be happy. Meanwhile, I'm over here basking in what I feel is a miracle the entire time Im playing this just so happy it exists, lol. Oh well. Of course, all voices are important.
 

Fardeen

Member
Oct 31, 2017
390
anyone bothered that its shinra not avalanche who is responsible for the make reactor meltdown. its it a post 9/11 thing ?? it kinda ruins the whole avalanche terrorist thing
 

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,990
If it was emulating/enhancing what existed I MIGHT agree, but they've completely changed the framing the bombing run AND JEssies' character and their dialogues in the first mako reactor to be obtusely written and childish. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
The only lines that I didn't like at all was when Barret was teasing Cloud about his rank. Something about 1st class meaning that he's one year old / a baby. That was oddly childish and dumb, and was pretty inconsistent with the setting and tone.

I've actually really loved the chemistry between Cloud and Jessie. When Barret praised Cloud after a certain battle, Cloud scoffed and brushed it off saying "That was nothing..." But when Cloud avoids a fall into the mako pit by jumping and flipping off of the platforms, and Jessie praises him, he gets this devilish grin and suppresses a chuckle. I felt that 100% as a human moment, like my man was having fun an flirting in his own way by showing off for this girl who's been flirting with him.

I dunno. I've really enjoyed it all!
 

Deleted member 2317

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,072
It's basically Crisis Core. There are positionals in MMOs and stuff too but you're still just mashing the button and moving a little bit, much like cooldown systems.

Also the fact that the game has Classic/"turn based" combat as a selling point but it's "the easy mode" really tells me a lot about the way the systems are designed.

The crux of the combat is mashing the button to auto attack to fill up an ATB to get to use a skill, much like Xenoblade 2's cooldown based combat, only here it's super flashy and over the top, which is a selling point for people. The "depth" is basically the same as Crisis Core/FFXV in the sense that there are things "there" but they're borderline asinine.

It also means every combat encounter has to be designed with Classic involved meaning that I doubt the mechanics are ever so far out of depth that a computer can't handle it making it curious. That being said attacking is not combos, inputs, etc. It's moving a joystick and mashing the attack button, while sometimes hitting guard. It's barely more than FFXV.
Goddammit. I mean, I knew this was coming, but still. Goddammit.

God I hate this kind of battle design.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,136
I am not sure how I feel about having to switch characters pretty much constantly. I was under the impression that they would perform pretty well if you just stuck with a "main" character for most of the time. But playing now it seems like your party members really don't accomplish shit unless you're manually controlling them.

It still early so they want you to get the hang of the system .
Truth is time will tell how much you have to switch when you get a full party and access to everything.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,277
It was okay.

Though they somehow made a combat system that seems even more simplistic than XV right off the bat.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,541
Does not surprise me. This is pretty emblematic of an issue with most Square-Enix games aside from, like, Kingdom Hearts on Critical (and likely DQXI on the highest difficulties as well, didn't play it to know for sure): Difficulty balancing.

The games are just terrified of killing the player. I imagine in their view it's in order to not make people drop it in frustration, but in reality what happens is: your punishment for "playing it wrong" is that the game gets boring. And there's nothing worse than that. This shouldn't happen, if you're doing poorly the game should always kill you, to push you to do better, explore the mechanics and find the fun.

This was very apparent to me when I was once praising FFXIII's combat system, and someone answered saying "well, I got through that same fight just spamming auto battle and occasionally switching to heal. Took me forever, I got a shitty rating, but I don't care."

It shouldn't take players who strive for getting 5 stars in every encounter to enjoy the basic systems in the game, it should be a requirement just to complete it.

Whenever I see people saying "don't pass judgment before playing the demo 3 times or so", first thing that comes to my mind is that S-E shouldn't let people complete the demo before learning if that's the case. We shouldn't have to play the thing 3 times just to start having fun.
You're not wrong.They're so concerned about making the skill floor as low as possible that they've forgotten that games have enjoyment floors as well.
 

LostSkullKid

Member
Nov 27, 2017
4,692
Feel bad for anyone who went through the needlessly complicated process of getting a spot in line for the demo at PAX East.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,372
Combat feels great. Like a fun fusion and inspired take on FFXV meets KH. The opening levels and flow feel very KH to me. Close corridors and contained arenas, occasional chests to pop open, limited environment interactivity and physics, scripted enemy encounters, flashy real time battles with menu prompts at the bottom left. Slash slash slash, occasional ability, Dodge and roll, retreat and advance. It's fun and flashy and great.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
You're not wrong.They're so concerned about making the skill floor as low as possible that they've forgotten that games have enjoyment floors as well.
Exactly! I'm not asking for every game to feel like KH on Critical, but the fact that it took a patched difficulty setting for KH III's hardest mode to stop being equivalent to Easy in other games is just absurd.
 

Jannyish

Member
Dec 16, 2017
803
Question: Am I reading this wrong or is Classic Battle Mode basically turn based (not really but since the character does everything bud commands on its own, it removes the action battle system component)?
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,099
Loved it, except for babysitting the camera during hectic fights, especially as Barret when he aimed off-screen without it auto-adjusting
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
The only lines that I didn't like at all was when Barret was teasing Cloud about his rank. Something about 1st class meaning that he's one year old / a baby. That was oddly childish and dumb, and was pretty inconsistent with the setting and tone.

I've actually really loved the chemistry between Cloud and Jessie. When Barret praised Cloud after a certain battle, Cloud scoffed and brushed it off saying "That was nothing..." But when Cloud avoids a fall into the mako pit by jumping and flipping off of the platforms, and Jessie praises him, he gets this devilish grin and suppresses a chuckle. I felt that 100% as a human moment, like my man was having fun an flirting in his own way by showing off for this girl who's been flirting with him.

I dunno. I've really enjoyed it all!
Cloud I would argue is the strongest of the remake characterizations thus far, sure.

But Barret's lines have all been ridiculous. The whole idea that a script has to be padded because it's "real actors" is nonsense as the job of a writer is to tell a lot in as little as possible unless forcefully being expository and bloated in its writing. Barret's original animations and characterizations is frustrations with Cloud not agreeing with his perspective but knowing that he needs Cloud to get the mission done (or thinks he does). In the new dialogue every 5 seconds is "show me money's worth" "Good thing I paid you top dollar" and other repeats of the same phrasing. It's battering the audience over the head with "This guy is evangelical avalanche guy, he paid Soldier guy, he doesn't like soldier guy so he's going to call him a puppy for no reason."

The Cloud and Jessie scene only makes sense again with the reframing of the bombing run. Before they were rushing out in a fight for their lives because the whole thing was about to explode, but in the new Advent Children Direction we now have to have a moment where Cloud superman leaps off the bridge (one of three that will fall on him judging by footage so far) and having Jessie make a "cute" comment.

The chemistry in a vacuum "works" but the issue is the honing on Jessie because they know if they focus on a female character (like with only having her go with Cloud and Barret further into their section of the reactor) they can get fanboys into it. This is also ignoring the borderline hilarity of the Scooby Doo shenanigans of the beginning of the Demo as the Barret and co run back and forth in the background leaving cloud to do all the work. They could have shown that once and them keeping ahead and called it a day, but we have to dumb it down so people know where to go in these increasingly linear level designs.

It's an exercise in superfluous dialogue and "Style" over substance. But if that works for people (which it clearly does) than whatevs.
 

FTF

Member
Oct 28, 2017
28,415
New York
The gall of them dropping this on a Monday morning... like a bad joke.... Better than no demo though..

source.gif
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,670
Question: Am I reading this wrong or is Classic Battle Mode basically turn based (not really but since the character does everything bud commands on its own, it removes the action battle system component)?

Classic is indeed supposed to play like the OG system.

Characters will auto-attack and auto-dodge, and you select commands for them when ATB charges fill up.

It plays with Easy difficulty.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
Goddammit. I mean, I knew this was coming, but still. Goddammit.

God I hate this kind of battle design.
I mean I've been trying to tell people from the getgo if you look at literally ALL the gameplay footage for all the flashy combat you look at the hud in the bottom left it's just MASHING that square button til it breaks.

There will be blocking and stuff like Xenoblade/FFXIV and mitigation techniques used, for sure, but the "action" part of the action combat is going to be much more understated than people seem to realize.
 

Mercador

Member
Nov 18, 2017
2,840
Quebec City
They have said that the intention is for this game to be the size of a traditional Final Fantasy game.

That said, I'm keeping my estimates reserved and am guessing itll be around 20-25 hours rather than 30 or 40.
Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. You are hoping to get a three group setup all the game and you got it for the last 2-3 hours for 3 big fights.

I wonder how much a "remake" we'll get, we still don't know how much it will cover, if it's similar of the original game or not. It could be a total reimagining of the game, like a Robin Hood movie or something along this, as not a remaster but a complete remake of the story itself. I haven't read on the remake because I wanted to go completely blind but now, I'm a bit on the fence really (and I'm quite an old FF fanboy).
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,372
Cloud I would argue is the strongest of the remake characterizations thus far, sure.

But Barret's lines have all been ridiculous. The whole idea that a script has to be padded because it's "real actors" is nonsense as the job of a writer is to tell a lot in as little as possible unless forcefully being expository and bloated in its writing. Barret's original animations and characterizations is frustrations with Cloud not agreeing with his perspective but knowing that he needs Cloud to get the mission done (or thinks he does). In the new dialogue every 5 seconds is "show me money's worth" "Good thing I paid you top dollar" and other repeats of the same phrasing. It's battering the audience over the head with "This guy is evangelical avalanche guy, he paid Soldier guy, he doesn't like soldier guy so he's going to call him a puppy for no reason."

The Cloud and Jessie scene only makes sense again with the reframing of the bombing run. Before they were rushing out in a fight for their lives because the whole thing was about to explode, but in the new Advent Children Direction we now have to have a moment where Cloud superman leaps off the bridge (one of three that will fall on him judging by footage so far) and having Jessie make a "cute" comment.

The chemistry in a vacuum "works" but the issue is the honing on Jessie because they know if they focus on a female character (like with only having her go with Cloud and Barret further into their section of the reactor) they can get fanboys into it. This is also ignoring the borderline hilarity of the Scooby Doo shenanigans of the beginning of the Demo as the Barret and co run back and forth in the background leaving cloud to do all the work. They could have shown that once and them keeping ahead and called it a day, but we have to dumb it down so people know where to go in these increasingly linear level designs.

It's an exercise in superfluous dialogue and "Style" over substance. But if that works for people (which it clearly does) than whatevs.
The Scooby shenanigans were fun! Agreed that they stood out a bit as weird, but man, it was fun and added character and levity to the situation.

Gosh the hate-on for this demo here is bumming me out hard.
 

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,719
Upstate NY
Anybody got a good strategy for the Scorpion boss? I came THIS close to beating it last time, want to make sure there isn't something I'm missing. I'm using Thunder and Cure with Barret regularly.
 

Daggoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
661
Cut to closeup of the bomb ticking to last few seconds, explodes, it's a slightly more powerful explosion this time though. Fireball goes across the ceiling and the reactor interior explodes a bit more, going upwards. Cut to game over and return to title screen.

Tested using 30 minutes. I was really hoping Barret would call me out for being incompetent :(
 

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,990
But Barret's lines have all been ridiculous. The whole idea that a script has to be padded because it's "real actors" is nonsense as the job of a writer is to tell a lot in as little as possible unless forcefully being expository and bloated in its writing. Barret's original animations and characterizations is frustrations with Cloud not agreeing with his perspective but knowing that he needs Cloud to get the mission done (or thinks he does). In the new dialogue every 5 seconds is "show me money's worth" "Good thing I paid you top dollar" and other repeats of the same phrasing. It's battering the audience over the head with "This guy is evangelical avalanche guy, he paid Soldier guy, he doesn't like soldier guy so he's going to call him a puppy for no reason."
When is the last time you played the original? Barret rants and raves about the dying planet and is frustrated over Cloud's indifference, and questions his loyalty multiple times. That is not new in this remake. And he's a little over the top in the original, too. He literally has animations where he's beating his chest and flailing about. I know you see it as padding, but the extra dialogue is needed. The game would feel weird without it. We now see Cloud and Barret traveling together in real time, fighting alongside each other. To do so in complete silence would be awkward.
 

Tochtli79

Member
Jun 27, 2019
5,777
Mexico City
Just played the demo. Wow, really impressed. The scope of Midgar feels insane, I can only imagine how much bigger it'll feel once you get access to the actual city streets. I still don't know if it was necessary to make this part of the game so much larger than it was but I think it'll be a fun experience. The battle system feels good, I like the ability to switch between characters and the slow down when going into the menu. Feels like a great way to modernise the classic FF battle system. I wasn't dodging or guarding very well so I'm glad there were so many potions, gotta get the hang of that still.

Feeling pretty excited for the full game.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
The Scooby shenanigans were fun! Agreed that they stood out a bit as weird, but man, it was fun and added character and levity to the situation.

Gosh the hate-on for this demo here is bumming me out hard.
As others will most likely say and/or point out, I've not been a fan of the direction the remake has taken with every piece of new info released. AS with someone like Max or others who will blindly praise the game, people like myself being critical should be taken with a grain of salt. Play the demo and make your own decision. If you like it, awesome, but I don't, and I'm just stating why.

I just have a certain perspective of how they could have adapted this and not a fan of the limitations of MIdgar and the recharacterization of things like Shinra and stuff. Like pushing the War for Wutai which at this point in time should be "over" as of at least 5 years prior when Zack was enlisted. But that's "nitpicking"

As someone that doesn;t enjoy the demo, sorry about that. I don't want it to seem like I'm saying others should dislike it as well.
Same for me. I just have perspective I'm sharing. I don't need people to all agree with me 100% but it's like...if I can't share any negative opinions why even have anything other than a hype thread at that point.
 

Nauren

Member
Oct 30, 2017
847
I had a blast playing it /shrugs. With Cloud and Barrett, I felt like I was too busy swapping back and forth, casting spells, abilities, using potions, etc that I dont feel like I was building up ATB at all. With 3 characters, its gonna be a handfull.
 

Cloud-Strife

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 27, 2019
3,140
The demo is INCREDIBLE.. it's a dream come true for fans of the original FF7.

The combat system is excellent if you get used to it just by swaping characters and using your BTC gauge as you need. Locking into enemies helps alot in the smaller figthing zones.

HDR is one of the best I've seen. At least on my tv the red lights look incredible and they really pop from the screen.

I know you may think I'm bias because of my profile.. but it's the truth.. the game is great and I love everything about it.

This screens are on a Ps4 Pro with HDR and a 4k TV.


49609681333_b97fe010c0_k.jpg


49610239292_774b84f048_k.jpg
 

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,888
Finished the Scorpion boss on my lunch break. Was awesome. Man I'm personally loving the combat system. So much character switching. Earlier grunts are easy but dropping players into the fire like that would be dumb. Scorpion boss, and to a lesser extent the Sweeper, is when shit starts to get real. If the materia system is anywhere near as robust as OG FF7 this will easily be the best battle system SE has created in over a decade.