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Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,851
Japan
This is the comparison I've been using when discussing this with friends.
Midgar is about 5 hours long at most. Stretching it out to a full game would be enormous bloating.

Playing FFVII now, Midgar feels a bit rushed. The bombing mission takes about 30 minutes. Okay, fine. But then as soon as it ends, you're already going on the next bombing mission, just 30 minutes into the game. From meeting Aerith, to the cross dressing detour, getting dumped into the sewers, and arriving at the train graveyard ... Sector 7 is already in danger at 3 hours in. You'll likely see it fall in 3:30, rush to see what came of Aerith, and end up at Shinra's HQ to see the grand conclusion to the Midgar arc at 4:00. It's too fast, and there's no time for these things to breathe. You don't spend nearly enough time in Sector 7 before it's in peril. A single map between Sector 5 and the park before the Wall Market took me no more than maybe five minutes to traverse, only triggering a single battle, because it was so short.

I'm not convinced that Midgar should be stretched to a single game, but it definitely needs to be expanded upon. It could be expanded upon in the original game. It would be nice to have a bit more time to breathe before you're thrown into a second bombing mission. Give the player time to get aquainted with Tifa and Barret before plunging Cloud into Sector 5. Provide a more substantial trek between sectors. Don't force the player to use the same path every time, or allow for a different one through the same area to save time.
 

Crumpo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,131
Bournemouth, UK
I completely understand people's pessimism with this but think of this. If they do fuck this up it's something that will stay with the company forever. You can argue that FF15 was a complete fuck up and I'd be there with you.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I think people's pessimism is almost directly linked to how ffxv was handled; they had the benefit of the doubt from a lot of people, despite the many warning signs, and people got burned.

Why, specifically, do you think the handling of this will be any better? Above you say "they must do it better, they know it's important" but if they do the same things you get the same results. and from what we've seen it's going the same way as ffxv - bringing the work back in-house (and likely scrapping all work done by the 3rd party) is the best example that springs to mind.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Expanding the game in this way isn't difficult, as Midgar (and FF7's world in general) is a rich place with lots of empty space in terms of both lore and geography that can be filled in. It's relatively easy to create content to pad it out, it just requires the resources and effort.

Doing this without obliterating the nearly perfect pacing of FF7 is, however, the question and problem. FF12, 13 and 15 all suffer from pacing problems too, imo, as I think they've never really managed to get the pacing nailed as these games have changed as we've had more realistic visuals etc.

But I do think part 1 will be Midgar. My prediction would be three games, a trilogy - they name-checked FF13, 13-2 and LR when they were explaining how the split would work, after all - and if I was splitting it three ways, here's what I'd do:
  1. Part One: Midgar, with expanded elements of Midgar as a semi-open world. Explore the sectors in more detail, undertake side quests. And a major area for expansion - actually explore city life above the plate, as you never do in the original FF7 (and we saw a shot of Cloud walking around above-the-plate city in the 2015 trailer, so presumably this is a thing). Above the plate was expanded more in the compilation, especially CC, to the groundwork is laid. End with the crew looking out over the world before them after leaving Midgar, a new mission in mind.
  2. Part Two: Cold open into the Nibelheim Flashback. The Nibelheim Flashback can serve a similar sort of purpose to those training wheels first missions in Mass Effect 2/3 - to remind returning players and teach new players the basics. Except this time, your experienced tutorial character who explains stuff to you isn't Barret... it's Sephiroth. It's also perfect for getting people up to speed - after the flashback, the party sit in the Kalm Inn and formulate a forward plan and recap what happened in Midgar. From there, continue on as in FF7, expanding a little here and there and folding Yuffie's recruitment (and maybe Vincent's, though he could slot in just as well later) into the critical path. End when Cloud hands Sephiroth the Black Materia in the crater and disappears, leaving the party in disarrary (thus you have your dark middle chapter and Empire Strikes Back ending - Aerith is dead, Cloud is missing, Sephiroth/Jenova has the maguffin to destroy the world).
  3. Part Three: Everything else through to the end, which includes a victory lap return to Midgar and open access to any area of the world from the previous game for new sidequests and distractions. Drop the optional stuff like Wutai into this part, too. Obviously the game opens with Cloud missing and Tifa as the protagonist, which imo is an interesting marketing hook - and it also again gives you a sort of 'in universe' tutorial excuse in Tifa learning the ropes of leading the group. It also means you save the money shot of the 'truth' of Nibelheim (and presumably bringing in some expanded elements from CC) for the final game.
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,418
I think people's pessimism is almost directly linked to how ffxv was handled; they had the benefit of the doubt from a lot of people, despite the many warning signs, and people got burned.

Why, specifically, do you think the handling of this will be any better? Above you say "they must do it better, they know it's important" but if they do the same things you get the same results. and from what we've seen it's going the same way as ffxv - bringing the work back in-house (and likely scrapping all work done by the 3rd party) is the best example that springs to mind.

I'd say a lot of problems surrounding 15 started with 13. The insistence on using their own engine and having huge problems when moving up a generation. Moving away from that can only be good.

Originally versus 13 was using that same engine and was changed so many times that nothing close to a game was even there. Making the announcement of it turning into 15 was unfortunately also done with smoke and mirrors with a trailer and announced too soon (along with KH3 & yes 7R) that was nothing like the finished product(I could be wrong I don't quite recall right now so if im wrong someone please let me know).

They did the same with 7, then outsourcing it to CC2 is something I never really understood, them bringing it back in also made me think this was going to be another case like 15. But the state of play trailer is looking good, we have actual gameplay and changes made that only look promising I think.

Honestly the only thing I can fault them for is their insistence on announcing things way to god damn early. I'm hoping in June we will get a release date and if we do it seems like they've finally learned to keep their mouths shut until launch plans are in place.

But like I said I completely understand why people are so pessimistic about it.
 

Elephant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,786
Nottingham, UK
I completely understand people's pessimism with this but think of this. If they do fuck this up it's something that will stay with the company forever. You can argue that FF15 was a complete fuck up and I'd be there with you. But I'm sure SE knows this next one has to hit, not just because it's the newest FF but because this is 7. A remake that's been requested time and again not just in the west but also Japan.

They know they have a lot riding on this. I'm not saying you have to be super positive but with this I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Sure, but they've not really done anything to earn that trust lately. Puzzling decisions like this don't do much to quell that fear. Gameplay wise what are we looking at? FFXV with a FFVII skin?

Them knowing they have to make it work is completely different from them actually executing that. They've faced enough criticism over the past 10+ years to know what people want and expect from Final Fantasy games, yet they still release something like XV. Which isn't to say XV is a bad game, it's actually pretty decent, but it's not got that special sauce from the 90's FF's. I'm sure they wanted the XIII games and XV to hit equally as bad (and probably thought they had at the time they delivered them). In fact they sold pretty well, right? FF7 is going to sell well no matter what. They're hell bent on forcing this modern formula into their games, so what suggests they might do right by FF7?

Edit: To reiterate, I hope I'm wrong and it totally blows my balls of with joy, I'm just not expecting it.

Good lord you people.
*blush*
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I mean, it could, but I don't think there's anything we've seen or heard from SQEX that would point out to that direction. There will be some "natural" expansion of Midgar due to this being a modern game & thus they are going to make the experience more seamless so there's more ground to traverse, and they have said they'll maybe give a bit more room for the other AVALANCHE members to shine. But that does not make a 4-6 hour experience into a 20+ hour one. That would need some serious expansion and coming up with a whole lot of new story, which is something they've said they won't do.

All that they've talked about points out to them trying to be pretty faithful to the story side of things and whatever additions they add will likely be a minute long discussion with Wedge here and a couple of minutes of banter with another important NPC there, within the confines of the main narrative that will remain fairly faithful. I don't think that level of expansion is going to happen. They've said they won't be adding anything too big to the original narrative and adding 15+ hours of story & story relevant content for Midgar goes against that.

Midgar will be noticeably bigger, but not 4-5x the size of the original. That's crazy talk.
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,418
Sure, but they've not really done anything to earn that trust lately. Puzzling decisions like this don't do much to quell that fear. Gameplay wise what are we looking at? FFXV with a FFVII skin?

Them knowing they have to make it work is completely different from them actually executing that. They've faced enough criticism over the past 10+ years to know what people want and expect from Final Fantasy games, yet they still release something like XV. Which isn't to say XV is a bad game, it's actually pretty decent, but it's not got that special sauce from the 90's FF's. I'm sure they wanted the XIII games and XV to hit equally as bad (and probably thought they had at the time they delivered them). In fact they sold pretty well, right? FF7 is going to sell well no matter what. They're hell bent on forcing this modern formula into their games, so what suggests they might do right by FF7?

Edit: To reiterate, I hope I'm wrong and it totally blows my balls of with joy, I'm just not expecting it.


*blush*

If we are talking gameplay then that's a whole other can of worms. I personally have no problems with an action style battle system and while it looks like 15, I don't think it will play like it. They've said they don't want to just make the same game and for better or worse that's what we are getting.

Anyway this is getting off topic now. Just hoping for the best, FF7 really did change my life so I can only hope that the remake will shine too.
 

G_Zero

alt account
Banned
Mar 19, 2019
457
You understand you're hedging your bets on ultrahack Kazushige Nojima, right.

1300044776986.jpg
What's wrong with Nojima now? He wrote VII, VII CC, VII AC, VIII, X, X-2, KH, KHII, KH: CoM and more! He's behind by far the most of SE's most well regarded games post-SNES. Is it because he was credited for "Original Story Plot" in XV? If so, with that accreditation, I doubt what he wrote actually had much to do with what we got.

I mean, I get that he hasn't always turned out gold, but I'd rate him as pretty damn good overall. I guess AC and CC are considered his worst works, and they're not that bad. I personally enjoy both.
 
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EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,875
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
I mean, it could, but I don't think there's anything we've seen or heard from SQEX that would point out to that direction. There will be some "natural" expansion of Midgar due to this being a modern game & thus they are going to make the experience more seamless so there's more ground to traverse, and they have said they'll maybe give a bit more room for the other AVALANCHE members to shine. But that does not make a 4-6 hour experience into a 20+ hour one. That would need some serious expansion and coming up with a whole lot of new story, which is something they've said they won't do.

All that they've talked about points out to them trying to be pretty faithful to the story side of things and whatever additions they add will likely be a minute long discussion with Wedge here and a couple of minutes of banter with another important NPC there, within the confines of the main narrative that will remain fairly faithful. I don't think that level of expansion is going to happen. They've said they won't be adding anything too big to the original narrative and adding 15+ hours of story & story relevant content for Midgar goes against that.

Midgar will be noticeably bigger, but not 4-5x the size of the original. That's crazy talk.
I feel the same way. Tripling or quadrupling the Midgar content feels a little counter intuitive to me. The entire reason they're cutting up the remake into chunks is because they don't have the time or resources to remake the game in the way they want. I'm sure you can re-purpose a lot of assets by sticking to Midgar, but you can stretch Midgar only so far without needing a significant amount of meaningful new content, and then I doubt they'd be saving all that much. They'd just be increasing the workload even further. The rest of FF7 will still be there, no matter how long they make the Midgar section.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
What's wrong with Nojima now? He wrote VII, VII CC, VII AC, VIII, X, X-2, KH, KHII, KH: CoM and more! He's behind by far the most of SE's most well regarded games post-SNES. Is it because he was credited for "Original Story Plot" in XV? If so, with that accreditation, I doubt what he wrote actually had much to do with what we got.

I mean, I get that he hasn't always turned out gold, but I'd rate him as pretty damn good overall. I guess AC and CC are considered his worst works, and they're not that bad. I personally enjoy both.

I actually think Nojima is okay. He has his awful moments (the GF made me forget etc etc), but there's a lot good in his work too, especially in 7 and 10. His work on 13 has flashes of brilliance and I think the outline he did for FF15/Versus had lots of potential that obviously was hampered and changed a lot by the game changing shape so much. However...

I think my big worry is in what you just said there - his work on the compilation shows either a disregard or (I think more likely) strong lack of understanding of what made FF7 great. This is one of my biggest concerns in general, honestly... the question is, can they recapture that tone? Do they understand why it was special? It's the George Lucas prequel syndrome, where sometimes the creators of something wildly successful can't see the forest for the trees and get lost, imo.
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,418
I actually think Nojima is okay. He has his awful moments (the GF made me forget etc etc), but there's a lot good in his work too, especially in 7 and 10. His work on 13 has flashes of brilliance and I think the outline he did for FF15/Versus had lots of potential that obviously was hampered and changed a lot by the game changing shape so much. However...

I think my big worry is in what you just said there - his work on the compilation shows either a disregard or (I think more likely) strong lack of understanding of what made FF7 great. This is one of my biggest concerns in general, honestly... the question is, can they recapture that tone? Do they understand why it was special? It's the George Lucas prequel syndrome, where sometimes the creators of something wildly successful can't see the forest for the trees and get lost, imo.

My biggest fear is that they will move away from the environmental and corporation stuff. I really hope they don't do that
 

Dark_Castle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,147
What's wrong with Nojima now? He wrote VII, VII CC, VII AC, VIII, X, X-2, KH, KHII, KH: CoM and more! He's behind by far the most of SE's most well regarded games post-SNES. Is it because he was credited for "Original Story Plot" in XV? If so, with that accreditation, I doubt what he wrote actually had much to do with what we got.

I mean, I get that he hasn't always turned out gold, but I'd rate him as pretty damn good overall. I guess AC and CC are considered his worst works, and they're not that bad. I personally enjoy both.
latmOCu.gif
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
I think my big worry is in what you just said there - his work on the compilation shows either a disregard or (I think more likely) strong lack of understanding of what made FF7 great. This is one of my biggest concerns in general, honestly... the question is, can they recapture that tone? Do they understand why it was special? It's the George Lucas prequel syndrome, where sometimes the creators of something wildly successful can't see the forest for the trees and get lost, imo.

Yeah, this is my biggest worry as well.

Sure, I can personally enjoy both CC and AC as well, but I have to turn off my brain for most of it.

AC felt like a contrived story just for the sake of fanservice that does very little to carry on the themes of the original game.

CC has some amazing highs but some really terrible lows as well. Everything involving Genesis just felt derivative and disconnected from the overall lore of the series.
 

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,787
Scotland
The more I see of the game the more it looks like it should have been a 3 part movie. I'm not sure how throwing tons of melodrama and cooking up new scenes is going to make a better game and the combat system is looking kinda flashy but dull.

If all Midgar is stretched out to be a single game I'd worry we are going to get large chunks cut out of the story and have a pretty streamlined experience and drifting far away from the original. I'm really not feeling it, SE has killed my hype for one of my most wanted games ever, great job guys.
 
Oct 25, 2017
753
The worst thing about CC was having Genesis and Angeal basically mimic Sephiroth's motivation from the original game. A great way to take one of the series, hell one of gaming's most iconic antagonists and turning into another of those elite Soldiers who finds out that he's been genetically experimented on and turns against Shinra.
 

Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,550
Netherlands
They stated each part will be the size of a whole game because they are expending every story and the world it's not 1 to 1 Remake.

Three and a half years later and people still don't get it :/

So you already know how long the game is? If it will be a 40 hour part 1 i am in. It would be a valid reason why it is taking so long, they have to write a lot of extra story.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,183
God damn they should have just made ground zeroes midgar edition. A full midgar game is so dumb.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,483
I don't think people realise that it just by being 3D means it will be bigger and take longer than the original to complete both play wise and development wise. They will have to create more transitions to the environments instead of the jarring jumps from one area to another, I'm not sure if some of the transitions even make logical sense in the original. Repeating the environments will be less tolerated. It will take longer for you to walk through them and navigate in 3D. 8 hours playtime in the original with a close recreation in 3D could be something like 10 or 12 hours in the remake(rough terrible estimate). That's just to recreate a 3D facsimile of what is already there, it will take a lot of work to do just that.

If they pad Midgar out to some 30 hours game then, I don't see the rest ever coming out.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,126
wouldn't be surprised if Midgar ends up being over a 1/3rd of the entire trilogy's virtual real estate. original game seems to imply it's like 10x bigger than any other location you visit, except for maybe the northern crater? (just pulling something from the top of my head, havent played the game in forever)

i could see it being rolled out into a 20-40 hr game if it gets liberal with the scenario rollout (explorable areas, side missions ect between the main beats). though that's not what i'd particularly want
 

IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
Expanding the game in this way isn't difficult, as Midgar (and FF7's world in general) is a rich place with lots of empty space in terms of both lore and geography that can be filled in. It's relatively easy to create content to pad it out, it just requires the resources and effort.

Doing this without obliterating the nearly perfect pacing of FF7 is, however, the question and problem. FF12, 13 and 15 all suffer from pacing problems too, imo, as I think they've never really managed to get the pacing nailed as these games have changed as we've had more realistic visuals etc.

But I do think part 1 will be Midgar. My prediction would be three games, a trilogy - they name-checked FF13, 13-2 and LR when they were explaining how the split would work, after all - and if I was splitting it three ways, here's what I'd do:
  1. Part One: Midgar, with expanded elements of Midgar as a semi-open world. Explore the sectors in more detail, undertake side quests. And a major area for expansion - actually explore city life above the plate, as you never do in the original FF7 (and we saw a shot of Cloud walking around above-the-plate city in the 2015 trailer, so presumably this is a thing). Above the plate was expanded more in the compilation, especially CC, to the groundwork is laid. End with the crew looking out over the world before them after leaving Midgar, a new mission in mind.
  2. Part Two: Cold open into the Nibelheim Flashback. The Nibelheim Flashback can serve a similar sort of purpose to those training wheels first missions in Mass Effect 2/3 - to remind returning players and teach new players the basics. Except this time, your experienced tutorial character who explains stuff to you isn't Barret... it's Sephiroth. It's also perfect for getting people up to speed - after the flashback, the party sit in the Kalm Inn and formulate a forward plan and recap what happened in Midgar. From there, continue on as in FF7, expanding a little here and there and folding Yuffie's recruitment (and maybe Vincent's, though he could slot in just as well later) into the critical path. End when Cloud hands Sephiroth the Black Materia in the crater and disappears, leaving the party in disarrary (thus you have your dark middle chapter and Empire Strikes Back ending - Aerith is dead, Cloud is missing, Sephiroth/Jenova has the maguffin to destroy the world).
  3. Part Three: Everything else through to the end, which includes a victory lap return to Midgar and open access to any area of the world from the previous game for new sidequests and distractions. Drop the optional stuff like Wutai into this part, too. Obviously the game opens with Cloud missing and Tifa as the protagonist, which imo is an interesting marketing hook - and it also again gives you a sort of 'in universe' tutorial excuse in Tifa learning the ropes of leading the group. It also means you save the money shot of the 'truth' of Nibelheim (and presumably bringing in some expanded elements from CC) for the final game.
I'm ok with that.
If they find a way to fill up Midgar, it will maybe expand a lot on the Compilation content and I don't know if people will be happy about that.
 

Coinspinner

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,152
Midgar being about 5 hours long is how long it aught to be, as far as pacing goes. The remake dragging it out to full game length is one of my nightmares.
 

XaosWolf

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,939
Playing FFVII now, Midgar feels a bit rushed. The bombing mission takes about 30 minutes. Okay, fine. But then as soon as it ends, you're already going on the next bombing mission, just 30 minutes into the game. From meeting Aerith, to the cross dressing detour, getting dumped into the sewers, and arriving at the train graveyard ... Sector 7 is already in danger at 3 hours in. You'll likely see it fall in 3:30, rush to see what came of Aerith, and end up at Shinra's HQ to see the grand conclusion to the Midgar arc at 4:00. It's too fast, and there's no time for these things to breathe. You don't spend nearly enough time in Sector 7 before it's in peril. A single map between Sector 5 and the park before the Wall Market took me no more than maybe five minutes to traverse, only triggering a single battle, because it was so short.

I'm not convinced that Midgar should be stretched to a single game, but it definitely needs to be expanded upon. It could be expanded upon in the original game. It would be nice to have a bit more time to breathe before you're thrown into a second bombing mission. Give the player time to get aquainted with Tifa and Barret before plunging Cloud into Sector 5. Provide a more substantial trek between sectors. Don't force the player to use the same path every time, or allow for a different one through the same area to save time.

I agree 100% that Midgar can and should be expanded. All I'm saying is that it wouldn't hold up for an entire game.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,183
I agree 100% that Midgar can and should be expanded. All I'm saying is that it wouldn't hold up for an entire game.
It could (assuming you change any and everything you want for the purpose of making it a full game) but that makes little sense in the context of having it be one episode of three and leaving the rest of the game for 2.
 

Black Chamber

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,811
United States
Here are some things that will truly piss fans off if they are implemented/not implemented in the finished product:

1). Cutting anything from the main story or side narratives from the game. Actually, cutting anything from the original game will likely enrage most fans.

2). Cutting down on the number of monsters that were featured in the original game or replacing some with new ones. The only solution here would be to have everything from the first game's bestiary and also add new ones.

3). Any missing audio cue or soundtrack element. Nobuo Uematsu must be heard.

4). Any cut weapons, spells, summons, Materia or equipment - especially summons.

5). Adding a lot of padding and bloat-filler to Midgar just to eek out a 30+ hour experience.

6). Not recreating the atmosphere present throughout the game. The original game's themes & motivations and also the Shinra markings, insignias, iconography and banners have to be present; as well as the Japanese kanji found throughout the world.

7). Adding in Genesis, Angeal or any of the Reunion characters from Advent Children...I'm looking at you Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz...
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Expanding the game in this way isn't difficult, as Midgar (and FF7's world in general) is a rich place with lots of empty space in terms of both lore and geography that can be filled in. It's relatively easy to create content to pad it out, it just requires the resources and effort.

Doing this without obliterating the nearly perfect pacing of FF7 is, however, the question and problem. FF12, 13 and 15 all suffer from pacing problems too, imo, as I think they've never really managed to get the pacing nailed as these games have changed as we've had more realistic visuals etc.

But I do think part 1 will be Midgar. My prediction would be three games, a trilogy - they name-checked FF13, 13-2 and LR when they were explaining how the split would work, after all - and if I was splitting it three ways, here's what I'd do:
  1. Part One: Midgar, with expanded elements of Midgar as a semi-open world. Explore the sectors in more detail, undertake side quests. And a major area for expansion - actually explore city life above the plate, as you never do in the original FF7 (and we saw a shot of Cloud walking around above-the-plate city in the 2015 trailer, so presumably this is a thing). Above the plate was expanded more in the compilation, especially CC, to the groundwork is laid. End with the crew looking out over the world before them after leaving Midgar, a new mission in mind.
  2. Part Two: Cold open into the Nibelheim Flashback. The Nibelheim Flashback can serve a similar sort of purpose to those training wheels first missions in Mass Effect 2/3 - to remind returning players and teach new players the basics. Except this time, your experienced tutorial character who explains stuff to you isn't Barret... it's Sephiroth. It's also perfect for getting people up to speed - after the flashback, the party sit in the Kalm Inn and formulate a forward plan and recap what happened in Midgar. From there, continue on as in FF7, expanding a little here and there and folding Yuffie's recruitment (and maybe Vincent's, though he could slot in just as well later) into the critical path. End when Cloud hands Sephiroth the Black Materia in the crater and disappears, leaving the party in disarrary (thus you have your dark middle chapter and Empire Strikes Back ending - Aerith is dead, Cloud is missing, Sephiroth/Jenova has the maguffin to destroy the world).
  3. Part Three: Everything else through to the end, which includes a victory lap return to Midgar and open access to any area of the world from the previous game for new sidequests and distractions. Drop the optional stuff like Wutai into this part, too. Obviously the game opens with Cloud missing and Tifa as the protagonist, which imo is an interesting marketing hook - and it also again gives you a sort of 'in universe' tutorial excuse in Tifa learning the ropes of leading the group. It also means you save the money shot of the 'truth' of Nibelheim (and presumably bringing in some expanded elements from CC) for the final game.

That would be awesome. The Midgar arc, the Black Materia arc, and the Meteor arc.
 

banshee150

Banned
Apr 3, 2019
1,386
Judging by KH3, you will be lucky for Midgar to be as big as the original FF7 areas. I have zero faith in Nomura. He is a great artist but a horrible director.
 

Jimbojim

Member
Jan 10, 2018
683
I fully agree with the OP but I hope that while they create more content for certain segments they also won't cut stuff that was great in the original.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,120
I don't really see what the benefit would be of padding Midgar to hell and leaving the other sections of the story relatively untouched. Like, there just isn't that much story in that section, compared to the rest of the game. So many important character and story beats come after Midgar, comparatively. How do you sustain a 30-40 hour game off Cloud doing sidequests while the other releases are packed with twists and turns?
 
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DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
I don't really see what the benefit would be out of padding Midgar to hell and leaving the other sections of the story relatively untouched. Like, there just isn't that much story in that section, compared to the rest of the game. So many important character and story beats come after Midgar, comparatively. How do you sustain a 30-40 hour game off Cloud doing sidequests while the other releases are packed with twists and turns?

Like this:

tlAn0Rn.gif
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Judging by KH3, you will be lucky for Midgar to be as big as the original FF7 areas. I have zero faith in Nomura. He is a great artist but a horrible director.
I think you're onto something here. A lot of the staff on this game are from the KH series, so looking at it's recent entries will probably give us a good indicator of what the remake will be like.
At the same time we have a new, younger staff member co-directing with Nomura. This new guy could help to steer the game away from some of the pitfalls Nomura likes.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,120

The problem comes from the other two parts would have relatively less changes. You'd be making a 5 hour section of a 40 hour game the first part of a trilogy. Midgar would be frontloaded with all the creative changes and the rest would have to be basically be the same, it'd do a number on the story's pacing.
 

Juraash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,321
I still think Midgar is the best part of VII. If they gave us a full game around Midgar and even expanded on the events there, I'd be super happy tbh.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
The problem comes from the other two parts would have relatively less changes. You'd be making a 5 hour section of a 40 hour game the first part of a trilogy. Midgar would be frontloaded with all the creative changes and the rest would have to be basically be the same, it'd do a number on the story's pacing.

The other parts will definitely have many changes. Despite the name this is a reimagining, not a simple remake.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
The only problem with leaving Midgar is that now, you have to develop how the overworld is going to look and how you interact with it. The budget now goes up, and for what? Not much extra.

Stay in Midgar. Finish part 1 there.

Part 2 opens up, you are in the world, and build the game that way.
 

banshee150

Banned
Apr 3, 2019
1,386
I think you're onto something here. A lot of the staff on this game are from the KH series, so looking at it's recent entries will probably give us a good indicator of what the remake will be like.
At the same time we have a new, younger staff member co-directing with Nomura. This new guy could help to steer the game away from some of the pitfalls Nomura likes.
Here's hoping!
 

banshee150

Banned
Apr 3, 2019
1,386
The pricing matters. If they keep the areas as small as KH3 then why is it episodic? I dont want to finance episodes of that scale even if they are 40$. On the other hand if the episodes are full game size then sure I will even fork out full price for each.

Nomura is seemingly incapable of extending the virtual walls beyond the immediate perimeter and that sucks.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,376
Im going to guess this is when the bombs goes off & Cloud gets separated from the group, in the original they kinda just run off & leave Cloud, this was a bit silly & they likely felt they needed something to actually separate them. Sephiroth appearing is because fire is a trigger for Cloud.
So far with the new trailer, it doesn't seem like they expanded Midgar much at all, but we will see in June.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
If this is the case, I would have less interest in the game. It's no secret FF7 is in the bottom half of my mainline FF list. I had no interest in the movie or side games. So I would have no interest in exploring or playing more in Midgar.

That being said, kudos to FF7 fans if this the case.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Im going to guess this is when the bombs goes off & Cloud gets separated from the group, in the original they kinda just run off & leave Cloud, this was a bit silly & they likely felt they needed something to actually separate them. Sephiroth appearing is because fire is a trigger for Cloud.
So far with the new trailer, it doesn't seem like they expanded Midgar much at all, but we will see in June.
I don't think Sephiroth is actually appearing here. My first reading of the scene is that either Sephi is fucking with Clouds head and is appearing as an apparition, or Clouds PTSD is kicking in and he's just hallucinating himself.
It's wild speculation I know but having Cloud fight Sephiroth at any point before SHINRA HQ would be silly.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,376
I don't think Sephiroth is actually appearing here. My first reading of the scene is that either Sephi is fucking with Clouds head and is appearing as an apparition, or Clouds PTSD is kicking in and he's just hallucinating himself.
It's wild speculation I know but having Cloud fight Sephiroth at any point before SHINRA HQ would be silly.
Oh yeah that's what i mean, it's just Cloud having flashbacks of sorts.
I honestly kinda have a problem with Sephiroth appearing that early, even in a flashback, because it ruins the surprise of Sephiroith going Jason on Shira HQ.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Oh yeah that's what i mean, it's just Cloud having flashbacks of sorts.
I honestly kinda have a problem with Sephiroth appearing that early, even in a flashback, because it ruins the surprise of Sephiroith going Jason on Shira HQ.
Yeah I missed the part where you said fire was a trigger for Cloud, and I agree. I also agree showing Sephiroth too early ruins it.
At the same time pretty much everyone knows the basic story between Sephiroth and Cloud much like 90% of people know Vader and Luke's story, so placing a little foreboding earlier in the story kind of works.

One thing I really like about that scene is Clouds facial expression. He goes from bewilderment to straight berserker rage and it's almost all in the eyes. I love it.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Oh yeah that's what i mean, it's just Cloud having flashbacks of sorts.
I honestly kinda have a problem with Sephiroth appearing that early, even in a flashback, because it ruins the surprise of Sephiroith going Jason on Shira HQ.

You still won't see Sephiroth's face until way later (maybe not even in the first game)