Final Fantasy VII-R Part 1 could very well take place all in Midgar and still be a full-fledged game. It only takes a little imagination to see it.

[Mario Bilo]

I don't think you read the OP at all. Expanding one area doesn't mean expanding all areas to the same density and making it anthology.

Midgar is the best part of FF VII and other areas can be shortened if anything.

Click to shrink...

Let's have a look at the story beats outside of Midgar that they need to hit:

Sephirot back story
Chocobo ranch
Turks, lots of Turks
Junon military parade
Barret's hometown
Red XIIIs hometown
Destroyed reactor village
Cloud and Tifas hometown
Gold Saucer
Meeting Cid
Meeting Caith Sith
Meeting Yuffie
Meeting Vincent
Yuffies hometown
Temple of the Ancients
THAT moment with Aerith
The whole freaking ice area
Truth about Zack
Escape from Shinra
Cloud breakdown
Getting Huge Materia
Fighting Weapons
The Promised Land
Fight Sephirot.


Here's what happens in Midgar:
Blow up a reactor
Meet Tifa
Go blow up another reactor
Meet Aerith
Don Corneo
Bye bye Avalanche
Storm Shinra
Bye Midgar.


Sure you can add and expand but Midgar being it's own game is ridiculous as either a lot of the future plot points elsewhere will have to get cut or we're looking at way more than 3 games.

 

[LordOcidax]

I prefer the complete package in just 1 game. Sorry OP.

 

[KORNdog]

first mass effect released in 2007 and 3 released in 2012, and the overall story is the same the reaper, sovereign menace, but you deal with the reapers minions on 1 and 2, the thing is story development of each part must be well done.

Click to shrink...

Not really that comparable though. We already have FF7 as a single release. We know what happens and we know how it ends. It was a single game with a single story. To arbitrarily chop it into 3 parts isn't the same as a trilogy releasing new. It's not even the same as FF13 and it's 2 expansions...because those other 2 releases are exactly that...expansions.

Now, if FF7 was originally a 3 part release there would be SOME merit to wanting to maintain a similar release schedule for a remake. But the fact is they're remaking a single stand alone game, but releasing it in (possibly) 3 parts. However If EA decided to remake the mass effect trilogy from scratch, they would likely release 3 individual games...because there were already 3 games.

I just have issues with chopping up a finished and complete whole (The FF7 story) into 3 parts for no real reason other than them being able to bail if part 1 sells like shit and to make more cash selling a remake of one game for $180 (I assume they'll all be full retail price?)

 

[John Doe]

In typical SE fashion you won't have much to explore. FFXV had tons of cutscenes with huge cities and they weren't that big when you visited them. You never go in Insomnia either haha

Click to shrink...

Exactly this, has anyone expecting Midgar to be this huge city played a FF game recently?

There are plenty of "large" cities in XV and XII but they aren't large in terms of exploration. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a modern midgar that is still largely blocked off and unexplorable.

 

[Aygomyownroad]

Nah they better make it up to the Jehova boat fight.

If it's all Midgar regardless of how big they make it then the game will be in so many parts and milked so much that it will never be released in my lifetime.

 

[Arthoneceron]

The problem isn't the imagination, the problem is Square-Enix being able to do something that matches with my expectations.

I'm not saying that SE is incompetent, but the last time I was fully satisfied with a game of theirs, probably it was with the OG Kingdom Hearts.

I mean, what they're pretending? That the whole first part of the game will be pass solely on Midgar? What about the stories in Kalm, Gold Saucer and the whole stuff? What about Aeris Death, which is the highest point of the first disc?

Some people say, and I fully agree, that SE doesn't know how to make open-worlds, even if this open world is segmented by streets, corridors and general stuff that's inside a place like that. So what they'll pretend? To put too much filler on the game that the players will actually see some parallel with the reality using some political commentary? To wander in the slums and see how people are suffering the influence of the ShinRa even being 100% dependant of their resources? To reach at all the shopkeepers and hear their stories on how they arrived on Midgar, or how they face their days in the middle of the sectors? As a fan of the game, and considering how FF VII is perfect how it is in the OG game, this is too much for me. After all, the FF VII universe isn't the Ivalice universe, and even wanting to satisfy some needs, I doubt that the game will have enough lore for that.

 

[Deleted member 721]

Not really that comparable though. We already have FF7 as a single release. We know what happens and we know how it ends. It was a single game with a single story. To arbitrarily chop it into 3 parts isn't the same as a trilogy releasing new. It's not even the same as FF13 and it's 2 expansions...because those other 2 releases are exactly that...expansions.

Now, if FF7 was originally a 3 part release there would be SOME merit to wanting to maintain a similar release schedule for a remake. But the fact is they're remaking a single stand alone game, but releasing it in (possibly) 3 parts. However If EA decided to remake the mass effect trilogy from scratch, they would likely release 3 individual games...because there were already 3 games.

I just have issues with chopping up a finished and complete whole (The FF7 story) into 3 parts for no real reason other than them being able to bail if part 1 sells like shit and to make more cash selling a remake of one game for $180 (I assume they'll all be full retail price?)

Click to shrink...

but its also not fair to ff7, ff7 is the same size as mass effect 1 and 2 together. FF7 originaly was developed in 1 year and half, thats impossible for an AAA game today, games demands more time of development and resources than before.

 

[PersianPrince]

While it might be wishful thinking, I would die if the other sectors of Midgar were explorable. That would fulfill a childhood dream. I always wished the game spent more time in Midgar!

 

[daveo42]

Final Fantasy VIIR: I - Bomb Mission to Rufus fight
Final Fantasy VIIR: II - Kalm to City of the Ancients
Final Fantasy VII:R III - Icecicle Inn to Northern Cave

Pacing wise, I feel like this makes sense.

Click to shrink...

Kalm to the City of the Ancients is close to half the main story. Midgar is, as of now, like 15%. They'd need to completely reorganize the story structure to balance things out, cut some of the later stuff, or break it out into like 6 games with the "chapter" model. I just don't see that. Best cuts?

Part I: Ends with Jenova Birth (cargo ship)
Part II: Ends with Jenova Life (City of the Ancients)
Part III: Ends where the original ends

Endings I and II have natural endings with a forward look to what is next and allows for enough content to balance the three games and include more without overhauling the story structure or making one game feel overly short or insanely bloated to fill for time.

 

[KORNdog]

but its also not fair to ff7, ff7 is the same size as mass effect 1 and 2 together. FF7 originaly was developed in 1 year and half, thats impossible for an AAA game today, games demands more time of development and resources than before.

Click to shrink...

... and Kingdom hearts 3 is bigger than FF7 and was released as a single title. They didn't chop that into several parts now did they? How did they manage to achieve that and yet seem to be struggling to release FF7 as a single release?

 

[Holundrian]

but its also not fair to ff7, ff7 is the same size as mass effect 1 and 2 together. FF7 originaly was developed in 1 year and half, thats impossible for an AAA game today, games demands more time of development and resources than before.

Click to shrink...

It is fair when the people responsible have made the choice to basically do the hardest thing with every decision. I'm still baffled and how fucking stupid the shift to real time combat is from workload perspective assuming they nail every character. With decision like that of course they can't make it 1 cohesive standalone title. Absolutely unnecessary.

Again if square proves me wrong like holy shit I'll be preaching at the altar of their genius again but last decade of output + just the absolute insane challenges they've taken upon themselves just make skeptical as heck. I'm singing the same song as I did for FF15 really and I was right on that as well.

That said a lot of people will for sure enjoy it and it will make tons of money so who really cares in the end.

 

[Deleted member 49319]

So we can use Midgar's public transportation freely?

 

[Tbm24]

I can see how they'd do it, I just won't like it. The thought of a VII remake finally coming out and being stuck in drab midgar is a real bummer. Hitting the world outside of midgar was always my favorite part of the game.

 

[Deleted member 721]

... and Kingdom hearts 3 is bigger than FF7 and was released as a single title. They didn't chop that into several parts now did they? How did they manage to achieve that and yet seem to be struggling to release FF7 as a single release?

Click to shrink...

kh3 is smaller than 7, and even then,kh3 is the end of a big arc the xenahort saga, thats 7 games until we finaly beated the crap out of him, try to imagine 7 kingdom hearts in 1 game the villain the overall arc is the same, a story can be expanded or reduced what will determine if its good or not its the quality of it.

 

[Mekanos]

kh3 is smaller than 7, and even then,kh3 is the end of a big arc the xenahort saga, thats 7 games until we finaly beated the crap out of him, try to imagine 7 kingdom hearts in 1 game the villain the overall arc is the same, a story can be expanded or reduced what will determine if its good or not its the quality of it.

Click to shrink...

Pacing is a pretty important part of a good story.

 

[Y2Kev]

Maybe they should just remake Dirge of Cerberus.

 

[Deleted member 721]

Pacing is a pretty important part of a good story.

Click to shrink...

yes, not saying its not, but one thing that will say if the pacing sux or not is if the new obligatory stories are interesting or boring, cool and interesting ones hardly hurt the pacing.

 

[Sedef122]

A whole game based solely on Midgar would be a fucking mess. It's crazy anyone thinks otherwise.

 

[Professor Beef]

As someone who *hated* Midgar Disc 1 in the original, I can see this happening with Cloud's Flashback at Kalm being the ending point for Part 1. The flashback not only sets up the party motivation, but gives you a cliffhanger to look forward to the rest.

 

[KORNdog]

kh3 is smaller than 7, and even then,kh3 is the end of a big arc the xenahort saga, thats 7 games until we finaly beated the crap out of him, try to imagine 7 kingdom hearts in 1 game the villain the overall arc is the same, a story can be expanded or reduced what will determine if its good or not its the quality of it.

Click to shrink...

And again, it's a poor analogy. You can't say kingdom hearts 1-3 + all the spin-offs are a single game. They're not and they never would be. They may contribute to a single story arch, but that's not the same as chopping up FF7 (a game that already exists as a whole) into 3 parts when it was once 1 part.

What FF7 is doing would be the equivalent of remaking kingdom hearts 1 with kingdom hearts 3 visuals, cutting it into 3 parts for "reasons" and then charging you $60 for each part. It's a bum deal.

 

[Mekanos]

And again, it's a poor analogy. You can't say kingdom hearts 1-3 + all the spin-offs are a single game. They're not and they never would be. They may contribute to a single story arch, but that's not the same as chopping up FF7 (a game that already exists as a whole) into 3 parts when it was once 1 part.

What FF7 is doing would be the equivalent of remaking kingdom hearts 1 with kingdom hearts 3 visuals, cutting it into 3 parts for "reasons" and then charging you $60 for each part. It's a bum deal.

Click to shrink...

I mean, they're doing a little more than upgrading the visuals. They are complete redesigning the game.

I agree it's a process doomed to fail because the story can't survive being chopped up into bits with years apart from them, but from a technical and budget perspective, the scope of the game they're trying to make simply isn't feasible in one release.

Personally I would have been happy with a midbudget remake that had nice graphics and assets, QOL improvements, and other goodies, and released it into the wild, but that's clearly not what they are doing.

 

[Jraphics Horse]

make the ship explode with jenova going berserk wrecking the ship and the game ends with cloud lost in the sea, make jenova fucking huge.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I was just thinking that, they could make it work as a Jaws style ending with barely making it and floating off on bits of junk.
I just have a feeling they're beavering away at Midgar and trying to ignore how to tackle the rest of the story for now :/

 

[LowParry]

I'm hoping for just two games instead of the three or more. SE way of thinking is probably going to be three. So the question is, what kind of filler or new content we'll get.

 

[icyflamez96]

The remake ending at midgar would ruin one of my favorite parts of the game

 

[MistaTwo]

Any paid professionnal writer who is tasked with fleshing out the game's world to make the story longer can easily do it, and can do it right.

Click to shrink...

While this is true, their most recent flagship FF game had an absolute mess of a narrative and was objectively bad in how its story was told. So obviously it takes a lot more than 'any paid professional writer'.

I would also agree with everyone else that Midgar's impact was so strong because despite being fairly short a LOT of stuff happens in that span of time. I would like to see a little more detail or backstory for characters, but I really do think that if they try to pad it out to 60 hours then it could very easily reduce the impact in comparison to the original.

 

[super moustique]

Nope, Part 1 won't be Midgar only.

I'm expecting Part 1 to be the first half of the game. So yeah, two parts when all is said and done !

 

[KORNdog]

I mean, they're doing a little more than upgrading the visuals. They are complete redesigning the game.

I agree it's a process doomed to fail because the story can't survive being chopped up into bits with years apart from them, but from a technical and budget perspective, the scope of the game they're trying to make simply isn't feasible in one release.

Personally I would have been happy with a midbudget remake that had nice graphics and assets, QOL improvements, and other goodies, and released it into the wild, but that's clearly not what they are doing.

Click to shrink...

I think the issue i'm having is that there isn't much evidence explaining why it's not feasible to be one release and achieve a similar 40 hour playtime. (Plenty of other games manage this) They're not exactly a small studio. And they've released games of equal size and content with current, up to date visuals. I mean, they made FF13....granted it was shit, but it terms of its content and production values it wasn't exactly a small scale title. Same goes for FF15 and kingdom hearts 3. Yes, they take time. But this remake is already taking a stupid amount of time as it is and at least with FF7 there's a sense it would be a guaranteed success.

I think if things were moving faster development wise it might be a worth while compromise and wouldn't seem as dumb of an idea. We would get parts faster than waiting for a full title to be completed, but with it comes the chopped up nature of the story and short waits between parts. You know, the entire premise behind episodic games like the telltale series etc

The problem however, is that they're taking a fuck ton of time just to release part 1 and will undoubtably take a fuck ton more time to release part 2 and 3. So i'm not entirely convinced we gain anything by going episodic. They could have easily made a non-expanded remake with 40 hours of gameplay and released it as one game. I don't see how they couldn't have when they've done similar things already this gen?

 

[Lindsay]

Another way they could extend playtime without adding new content: make it an Action/RPG

Think you're gonna one-shot those two Shinra grunts at the very start of the game as in the original? Think again! Expect a tutorial on how to walk up to baddies and slash 'em. And how to dodge. Pretty much a Yakuza intro battle, hit/dodge/combo/etc. 20 times each before you're allowed to proceed.

An then theres every other baddies in the game which'll take far more hits/time to take down because thats just how ARPGs go.

I mean, the Midgar sequence is like, what, 5 hours? Kalm to City Of The Ancients is probably close to 20. They'd have to make up a ton of stuff for Midgar and then leave the other two relatively untouched.

Click to shrink...

I just finished Disc 1 like an hour ago with 18:45 on the clock. Not mashing through text, not skipping stuff (barring boring Ft. Condor battles and the Pagoda cause Trine), not fighting optimally in any sense of the word cause I've been using an testing the heck outta status effect magic, and... roughly 6 hours was dedicated to grinding Materia an getting everyone to L3 Limit breaks.

i can see it. Meeting the Turks multiple times, doing multiple missions with Avalanche that were not even in the original. Seeing Shinra capture Red-XIII in cutscene form, bring him in, experiment, .. the train system or subway system could be very complex. There could be stealth mechanics at times. ..

I remember scenes of the Turks talking and socializing. Same with Avalanche. There is a lot of room. And who knows what new story there will be with Aerith and their relationship growing over their time together in Midgar.

Click to shrink...

Adding in more Turks stuff'd just lead to 'em being overexposed and watered down. Ya already encounter 'em 3 times in Midgar in the original as it is~
Wonder what kinda new Avalanche missions there could be? Not blowing up more reactors thats for sure.

 

[CRIMSON-XIII]

Another way they could extend playtime without adding new content: make it an Action/RPG

Think you're gonna one-shot those two Shinra grunts at the very start of the game as in the original? Think again! Expect a tutorial on how to walk up to baddies and slash 'em. And how to dodge. Pretty much a Yakuza intro battle, hit/dodge/combo/etc. 20 times each before you're allowed to proceed.

An then theres every other baddies in the game which'll take far more hits/time to take down because thats just how ARPGs go.


I just finished Disc 1 like an hour ago with 18:45 on the clock. Not mashing through text, not skipping stuff (barring boring Ft. Condor battles and the Pagoda cause Trine), not fighting optimally in any sense of the word cause I've been using an testing the heck outta status effect magic, and... roughly 6 hours was dedicated to grinding Materia an getting everyone to L3 Limit breaks.


Adding in more Turks stuff'd just lead to 'em being overexposed and watered down. Ya already encounter 'em 3 times in Midgar in the original as it is~
Wonder what kinda new Avalanche missions there could be? Not blowing up more reactors thats for sure.

Click to shrink...

Final Fantasy VII Before Crisis says different

 

[Hace]

so they're just going to pad the hell out of it?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I think the issue i'm having is that there isn't much evidence explaining why it's not feasible to be one release and achieve a similar 40 hour playtime. (Plenty of other games manage this) They're not exactly a small studio. And they've released games of equal size and content with current, up to date visuals

Click to shrink...

Can you show me a game with the type of production values we saw in the latest trailer that also has 9 playable characters and locations and assets as unique as midgar, cosmo canyon, the golden saucer, junon, and the other countless locations that are completely different from each other?

 

[Crisium]

Kalm to the City of the Ancients is close to half the main story. Midgar is, as of now, like 15%. They'd need to completely reorganize the story structure to balance things out, cut some of the later stuff, or break it out into like 6 games with the "chapter" model. I just don't see that. Best cuts?

Part I: Ends with Jenova Birth (cargo ship)
Part II: Ends with Jenova Life (City of the Ancients)
Part III: Ends where the original ends

Endings I and II have natural endings with a forward look to what is next and allows for enough content to balance the three games and include more without overhauling the story structure or making one game feel overly short or insanely bloated to fill for time.

Click to shrink...

If they are going for 3 parts then that's the best. Midgar as a whole game would work for a 4-5 part series, but then you have issues of finding more ending parts and it just doesn't work out.

 

[Deleted member 27471]

Can you show me a game with the type of production values we saw in the latest trailer that also has 9 playable characters and locations and assets as unique as midgar, cosmo canyon, the golden saucer, junon, and the other countless locations that are completely different from each other?

Click to shrink...

Don't forget enemy types and the variety of Materia in the game. Also the variety levels and backgrounds which some are only used briefly.

 

[Datajoy]

So I wonder now if all the episode will be ending in cliff-hengars.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Kalm to the City of the Ancients is close to half the main story. Midgar is, as of now, like 15%. They'd need to completely reorganize the story structure to balance things out, cut some of the later stuff, or break it out into like 6 games with the "chapter" model. I just don't see that. Best cuts?

Part I: Ends with Jenova Birth (cargo ship)
Part II: Ends with Jenova Life (City of the Ancients)
Part III: Ends where the original ends

Endings I and II have natural endings with a forward look to what is next and allows for enough content to balance the three games and include more without overhauling the story structure or making one game feel overly short or insanely bloated to fill for time.

Click to shrink...

I've said this before but while City of Ancients and Jenova Life seems on the surface like it's a natural stopping point it's smack bang in the middle of the Black Materia arc. Also think about where that would leave Part III starting from. In this split I think finishing the Black Materia arc at the Northern Crater and starting Part III in the aftermath actually makes more narrative sense.

Spoiler

Sephiroth gaining the Black Materia and summoning Meteor
The Weapons emerging and threatening humanity
Cloud lost in the Life Stream
The rest of the team captured by Shinra

It would be the games' Empire Strikes Back/ Return of the Jedi moment, finishing one part with the protagonists at their lowest point, then starting the next part with them beginning the process of pulling themselves out of their hole, bit by bit.

 

[PancakeFlip]

Is all this a result of when JRPGs thought world maps were no longer needed? I hate that they were removed as they helped with understanding the scope and build of the world, game could still work with a world map similar to DQ11.

With all that said though, I wouldn't mind spending a bit more time in Midgar, a whole games worth of time though? Probably not that much. Probably going to be jam packed with side content now like restaurants, arcades etc.

 

[DmckPower]

I hope there are a lot of story events.

SE's recent track record with cities is bad. They're usually just empty window dressing with no interesting events or NPCs.(Accademia,Accordo,Insomnia)

 

[Pyro]

I've been assuming it's gonna be that ever since it's been announced it'll be split up.

 

[Bakercat]

Midgar is the best part of the game anyway.

 

[Professor Beef]

Midgar is the best part of the game anyway.

Click to shrink...

The 2nd visit anyways, where there's less bullshit to do.

 

[Deleted member 4093]

It's comparatively less grand

Click to shrink...

If that makes any sense. Game from 20 years ago

 

[Kumomeme]

i think no need to bring other character that supossed to be appear later to come earlier ...better keep character character appearance same with original...there more content need for other part right?

and it make people looking toward to other part as well...

now, they tease us with main character..now we waiting for tifa which is being teased in latest teaser...then for part 2 they can tease yuffie and vincent, cid

 

[Elliot Pudge]

Another way they could extend playtime without adding new content: make it an Action/RPG

Click to shrink...

can't wait for damage sponges

you're aware that games can be an arpg without fights being exhaustingly long?

 

[Abominuz]

What i am afraid of is that in FFVII as a whole you experience the story and then some side quest, mini games, secrets and secret bosses. If you divide the game, you have a maybe 5 to 8 hours part 1 and you are done. Then we have got to wait a year or years for the next part.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

If you divide the game, you have a maybe 5 to 8 hours part 1 and you are done. Then we have got to wait a year or years for the next part.

Click to shrink...

They stated each part will be the size of a whole game because they are expending every story and the world it's not 1 to 1 Remake.

Three and a half years later and people still don't get it :/

 

[inner-G]

Nah it has to have the part where it opens up and you see the world map

 

[Encephalon]

Given that the Midgar section of the game can comfortably be beaten within 6 hours (maybe even 5), and much of it is criminally short, i can see them quadrupling the experience. But that leaves it 6 hours short of a full game. They're going to have to invent multiple new scenarios for it to work. Maybe it can. Hopefully it does, if attempted.

But then that leaves the issue of what to do with the remaining content. It's hard to imagine a part 2 that doesn't cover up to set least Aerith's death.

 

[Elephant]

I don't think anyone's bothered about the length of these episodes and thinking they won't be full games, they're pissed off that it's being split at all.

As I've said before i don't accept, "This games too big", or, "There are too many assets", and whatever other excuse people want to make for them. (Delay release and release it all as one?) This split, on top of that fact that I don't trust modern day Square-Enix to do it justice, makes me very wary of looking forward to this game. I WANT to be down on it, so I'm not disappointed when the remake of one of my most cherished games turns out to be a big steamy turd. I hope I'm wrong, I hope it's incredible, but I don't see it happening.

This isn't 90's Squaresoft who treated Final Fantasy like it's baby. This is the Square-Enix who sold Final Fantasy's soul.

 

[Crumpo]

Alternatively, basically make the game play out like a Yakuza: Midgar Edition.

Click to shrink...

I think the Honey Bee Inn hostess side-game would be only slightly less akward than the original scenes.

And Reno and the Turks everywhere would be a pretty good addition, to spice up the walking around!

 

[ZeroDS]

I don't think anyone's bothered about the length of these episodes and thinking they won't be full games, they're pissed off that it's being split at all.

As I've said before i don't accept, "This games too big", or, "There are too many assets", and whatever other excuse people want to make for them. (Delay release and release it all as one?) This split, on top of that fact that I don't trust modern day Square-Enix to do it justice, makes me very wary of looking forward to this game. I WANT to be down on it, so I'm not disappointed when the remake of one of my most cherished games turns out to be a big steamy turd. I hope I'm wrong, I hope it's incredible, but I don't see it happening.

This isn't 90's Squaresoft who treated Final Fantasy like it's baby. This is the Square-Enix who sold Final Fantasy's soul.

Click to shrink...

I completely understand people's pessimism with this but think of this. If they do fuck this up it's something that will stay with the company forever. You can argue that FF15 was a complete fuck up and I'd be there with you. But I'm sure SE knows this next one has to hit, not just because it's the newest FF but because this is 7. A remake that's been requested time and again not just in the west but also Japan.

They know they have a lot riding on this. I'm not saying you have to be super positive but with this I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.