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APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,730
England
That's the main thing.
FF7 isn't as big as some people are letting on, i think i clocked in at under 40 hours on my last playthrough with doing a lot of the side stuff. Plus ya know, witcher 3 was fine as one, huge game.

It's not just about hour count though, is it? FF7 clocks in at 40 hours - often less, I think - but it absolutely burns through areas/assets like mad. That's the problem. It's not "the game is so long we couldn't possibly release it in one part," it's "the game is so content-dense we couldn't possibly create it as one game in a cost effective way". This is the problem. They even got burned on this with FF13, where it ran away from them and got too expensive and extensive... and that's a big part of why we got two cheap cash-in sequels, to recoup some of the hefty costs burned on the initial game.
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,889
I posted this in the trailer thread:

Final Fantasy VII Remake
Episode 1: Midgar
Episode 2: Nibelheim (Flashback)
Episode 3: Jeuno to Nibelheim (Present)
Episode 4: Gold Saucer???
Episode 5: Temple & City of the Ancients
Episode 6: Northern Crater
Episode 7: METEOR
Episode 8: Lifestream (aka Episode Cid)
Episode 9: Return to Midgar
Episode 10: Northern Crater Redux (Finale)

Optional DLC: Yuffie & Vincent

:)


LOL. The complete remake collection had better come with a freaking time machine so I could go back 20 years and give it to the younger me that gave a shit about this remake in the first place.
 

JaseMath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,394
Denver, CO
My bleak prediction? It will start cross-gen (PS4/PS5) and take the entirety of the PS5 lifecycle to conclude. In the process, it will popularize AAA episodic releases.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,290
Midgar, With Love
I'm glad if it means greater detail than the original, the idea of being able to fully explore Midgar and go on more than a couple of missions with Avalanche is really exciting!
Also it means we'll actually get to play it this generation.
As long as they keep the promise that each episode has full fledged content then I'm fine with this. Would love to explore Midgar

This is how I feel. Cramming the full game into one installment, in today's environment, would certainly mean serious cuts, not expansion.
 

Neilg

Member
Nov 16, 2017
711
ff7-1 - an extended 30hr+ midgar to junon
ff7-2 - a streamlined version of the rest of the main plot, no open world
ff7-3 - the turks, back story & new side stories padded into a full game
ff7-4+ - vincent, barret, zack etc/whoever
 

ika

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,154
MAD, Spain
Reading this thread I feel a bit alone in my wish for a "simple" 1 to 1 remake of FF VII. I never wanted a reimagining and I'm not sure that the current Square Enix can deliver on that front, since their glory days are long gone.
I feel you.

you can still play your ps4 game on ps5 though..
I bet many people got a PS4 with this remake in mind. It can be a silly decision (I got mine just for the promise of Silent Hills after PT demo, so... lol), but I understand their frustration if this remake finally goes to PS5 even if the first part releases in PS4.
 

Locust Star

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 21, 2019
248
I could imagine they take parts of Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerebrus and the other spin-offs and convert or translate them into extra content in order to pad the episodes. At least that's my guess on how they plan to space it out across several games.
 

Plywood

Does not approve of this tag
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,079
These arguements dont even make sense. If anything a remake should take less time. You already have the story, characters and everything else. Youre just redoing and reimagining the combat system and visuals. Its hilarious how people are acting like this is the biggest undertaking ever in video games. Sure ff7 is a big game. But so are many other games. Its episodic for one reason, cause square cant put out a large game in any sort of reasonable timeframe.
Consider this, Resident Evil 2 a smaller game overall took Capcom 4 years from announcement in 2015 to release in 2019 and doesn't feature half as many unique locales. So let's discuss their parallels using this interview.
The remake project, simply (albeit confusingly) titled Resident Evil 2, features a number of revisions intended to make the game more accessible, particularly for people accustomed to the amenities of modern games. At Tokyo Game Show 2018, we spoke with producer Tsuyoshi Kanda about the specifics of those edits.

Polygon: It must be challenging and maybe exciting to produce a remake when nobody agrees on what a remake should be. There's a spectrum between the ultra-loyal remasters, like the work being done by Sega and Capcom on their retro game collections, and projects that take a more liberal approach, like the recent remake of Shadow of the Colossus, which tweaked the art style and improved the controls. Resident Evil 2 seems to go even further with its change: The entire story structure is being streamlined.

When you began the project, knowing you had a good deal of creative freedom, what were some of the things from Resident Evil 2 that you felt had to stay? And what things from the original game did you decide, to be remade in 2018, had to be completely changed to be appealing in 2019?

Tsuyoshi Kanda: This is definitely based on the original and we're respecting it as much as we can. There's a legacy of the series following the same key beats. Not radically, completely changing it. But when we bring it to this kind of level of photorealism using the RE Engine, you'd have to bring some groundedness to certain aspects.

It's not so much that the times have changed, but when the game looks this real, certain things stand out as being very nonbelievable, kind of pulling you out of the experience. That applies to all kinds of gameplay elements — even something as simple as the costumes the characters are wearing. We keep the feel of the originals and what the [originals] represent.

So Leon being a rookie cop, he has to wear a policeman's uniform. But, like, the huge shoulder pads he had in the original are not something that — they're a symbolic design in a low-polygon look. But when you make his outfit realistic, you need to make him [nondescript]. Like, you wouldn't look at him twice on the street, because what he's wearing ... it's realistic for a cop to wear that.

That's the kind of design choices we have to make ... in order to ground the story for players today. They expect to have that certain movie-like quality of "this could really happen," and all kinds of decisions like that get made down the chain.
Much like Kanda's staff respecting the original RE2 we see returning core members of VII's staff working to create a modern realization of their classic title, they are trying to be faithful to the spirit of the original while also realizing that there are changes to be made when creating a modern approach. For example where as Leon's design was changed we can see some of this same design philosophy coming through with differences such as Cloud's newer muscular build which even changed from 2015 to now giving consideration to the fact he swings around a sword as tall as him as well as Aps new design being much more bestial while still retaining a Frankensteinian monstrosity aspect to it:

IG25K7I.jpg

z4JfLqG.png

On that topic of the camera, camera angles are so central to how horror works. A close-up can conceal the killer hiding just off frame. When I think of Resident Evil 2, I picture all these iconic static camera angles that hang close to the characters. They often obscure zombies in a room's hidden corners. How has giving control of the camera to players changed the game's feel? Has it changed how certain sequences played out or how you, as a designer, put scares into a scene?

Because we changed the camera angle, we did lose the ability to do certain tricks, like a forced frame angle that conceals things — even though you're in the same room as something, you can't see it yet. We can't get away with that in third-person. But just because you have the freedom to move the camera doesn't mean that we can't hide anything. That still comes down to level design, visual design and atmospheric design.

So you can be walking down the corridor of the police station. You've got just the flashlight beam or you've got darkness ahead. There's smoke, the corridor twists, and you still can't see ahead, even with the third-person camera. We can definitely create an atmosphere of unease, where you still don't know what's coming around the next corner, without having to literally lock off your view to achieve surprise or jump scares.

It's also not just visual. We've got this great approach, what we're calling wetness and darkness. They're our keywords. They have a great sense of dark and light interplay. Also sort of a glistening wetness to the gore of the zombies and the water on the floor. That kind of thing.
Resident Evil 2 and VII both had fixed camera angles, with VII having many isometric pre-rendered backgrounds vs now where the entirety of playable Midgar has to be rendered in a fully 3d environment in the remake as well as potentially a considerable number of skybox work, that's not even considering how level design has to be approached and figuring out how to have the characters interact and navigate through the environment.

ZTyIcdv.jpg


The second bolded bit is Kanda almost basically describing the scene above: "You've got just the flashlight beam or you've got darkness ahead. There's smoke, the corridor twists, and you still can't see ahead, even with the third-person camera. " There are many, many more layers of detail being added to the game to give it much more atmosphere in this fully rendered 3d remake.
The original Resident Evil and Resident Evil 2 were heavily influenced by George Romero and the old-school zombie film directors. But when I had the opportunity to talk with the director of Resident Evil 7, he talked about how he required everybody on his team to watch The Evil Dead and Army of Darkness, which is a very modern tonal shift. With the Resident Evil 2 remake, were newer works of zombie fiction, film or games shown to the team to influence how zombies are portrayed this time around?

I don't think we've specifically referenced modern zombie movies as such. The original games definitely had the George Romero influence. We've kind of tried to keep that going, but we can't directly reference that style anymore because the way the [Romero] zombie looks now isn't that scary anymore. They seem a bit silly.

The original games existed in a context where zombies were not very common in fiction. At that time period, Romero films had come and gone, and were consigned to B-movie history. Then, with the original games [in the 1990s], we brought zombies back to video games. They were really refreshing and scary because it was so unusual to be fighting them.

The problem we have to face with the remake is that [the '90s] zombies have become so standard across all genres of fiction and media, like movies, games and TV. We've kind of hit peak zombie, and it's also come and gone. You can't just show zombies onscreen and be like, "OK, be scared." People are used to them, and they're kind of the low-level enemy in the video game enemy hierarchy. They're no longer the enemy that you feel scared by.

So we wanted to make you feel with the remake's zombies the way you would have felt seeing the original Resident Evil 1 and 2 zombies — but updating that visually. We want you to feel that zombies are scary again. They're not just a bullet sponge you have to deal with to get through the game.

We've really worked hard on the visuals and the physics of them. We let you aim for specific parts of their body. We have realistic, real-time bullet damage to specific parts of them. They can be dismembered. You can shoot off a leg to disable them or shoot off an arm so they can't grab you.

And when they come up close and grab you, the camera swings in for this really intense claustrophobic feel. Even if you think zombies are kind of passé, you'll definitely find them scary all over again in this game.
Much like RE2, the original FFVII existed in a different context back in the 90s and many of its elements were inferred due to the low-poly nature of the game and a lot of it would look downright goofy today. Not only does everything have to be redesigned in a new light, but so many things have to be considered such as the way enemies behave and react. Especially considering the transition from turn-based to a much more action-oriented title. The best thing having the old material at hand does is give them an outline, the worst part being any differences will always have the potential to be under massive scrutiny on an already large undertaking. Saying their work is cut out for them is like saying any adaptation of a book to live action is easy work or that any movie remake is easy work. It's nonsense.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 8468

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,109
This sounds like a terrible business decision, but possibly necessary given the rocky development.

I just feel like episodic gaming only works when you're waiting to see what will happen next. It's a remake, we all know the story already.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,307
I like this, it's definitely necessary to convey the scope of the original with modern tech.

Makes me sad knowing it would be even harder to give VI the same treatment :(

I'm also thinking they could probably do more than Midgar with episode 1.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,570
This is describing much more expansion than I was expecting from them, although I could well have been wrong in my expectations.

To take the Dungeon example, I would be surprised if the dungeons were much bigger and more complex than they were previously. That said, they may well feel bigger simply by virtue of the camera shifting to a more dynamic one close to the characters than one which offers something of an overview of the environment.

Out of interest, as i mentioned upthread, it's been a very long time since I played FF7, is there anything in that trailer that corresponds to, well, just 'general wandering' from the original game? The exploration part? There's fights and dramatic dialogue scenes, but I didn't notice anything explorey. Admittedly, that's going to be entirely because 'general wandering' isn't exciting enough for a trailer (fair enough!), but being able to see some could give us a feel for what the scope of that aspect of the game is, and whether it's more expansive than the original.

Given that battles take place within the environment they already need to make the environments much bigger than it was to fit the scales of monsters. You can't just have 5 small rooms to represent 5 backgrounds of FFVII.

Another problem they have is that the game mostly moves forward through different locations whereas many RPGs, Japanese ones especially, keep to lower costs/lower dev time by having more backtracking. Look at the tales games for example.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,468
Given that battles take place within the environment they already need to make the environments much bigger than it was to fit the scales of monsters. You can't just have 5 small rooms to represent 5 backgrounds of FFVII.

Ah, yes, it's a given that it'd be bigger. I was imagining that we were talking about dungeons being more complex in their structure.
 
Jun 4, 2018
1,129
Unless subsequent episodes are going to be ready in quick succession (who are we fooling), why release on PS4 at this point? Particularly as an exclusive - timed or otherwise? PS4 owners get Midgar, PS5 owners get everything else? Or do we expect the open world portion to perform capably on PS4? I don't have a problem with an episodic releaae, I just find it puzzling that a game that probably won't be 100% released by the time PS5 is in its prime would still be exclusive to PS4. Then again, episodic could mean two episodes, but that framing suggests multiple chunks of game, yeah?
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,672
I don't like the idea of breaking it up into episodes, BUT, I would be optimistic if Square said, "Yeah, a lot of your predictions of where this episode will end are incorrect!" and the episode DOESN'T end with the escape of Midgar, nor on the cargo ship headed out of Junon, but REALLY ends at Nibleheim.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Unless subsequent episodes are going to be ready in quick succession (who are we fooling), why release on PS4 at this point? Particularly as an exclusive - timed or otherwise? PS4 owners get Midgar, PS5 owners get everything else? Or do we expect the open world portion to perform capably on PS4? I don't have a problem with an episodic releaae, I just find it puzzling that a game that probably won't be 100% released by the time PS5 is in its prime would still be exclusive to PS4. Then again, episodic could mean two episodes, but that framing suggests multiple chunks of game, yeah?

PS5 will be fully BC.

If you have a PS5, there is nothing stopping you putting in a PS4 game and play it.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,133
Not really exciting to know you gotta pay at least 180€ for the full experience, also with next gen coming next year, it'd be a waste to buy it on PS4.
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,859
I still dislike this decision, SE is basically doing the same Peter Jackson did with the Hobbit movies.

4VsqpWH.jpg
 

Glassboy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,550
Consider this, Resident Evil 2 a smaller game overall took Capcom 4 years from announcement in 2015 to release in 2019 and doesn't feature half as many unique locales. So let's discuss their parallels using this interview.

Much like Kanda's staff respecting the original RE2 we see returning core members of VII's staff working to create a modern realization of their classic title, they are trying to be faithful to the spirit of the original while also realizing that there are changes to be made when creating a modern approach. For example where as Leon's design was changed we can see some of this same design philosophy coming through with differences such as Cloud's newer muscular build which even changed from 2015 to now giving consideration to the fact he swings around a sword as tall as him as well as Aps new design being much more bestial while still retaining a Frankensteinian monstrosity aspect to it:

IG25K7I.jpg

z4JfLqG.png


Resident Evil 2 and VII both had fixed camera angles, with VII having many isometric pre-rendered backgrounds vs now where the entirety of playable Midgar has to be rendered in a fully 3d environment in the remake as well as potentially a considerable number of skybox work, that's not even considering how level design has to be approached and figuring out how to have the characters interact and navigate through the environment.

ZTyIcdv.jpg


The second bolded bit is Kanda almost basically describing the scene above: "You've got just the flashlight beam or you've got darkness ahead. There's smoke, the corridor twists, and you still can't see ahead, even with the third-person camera. " There are many, many more layers of detail being added to the game to give it much more atmosphere in this fully rendered 3d remake.

Much like RE2, the original FFVII existed in a different context back in the 90s and many of its elements were inferred due to the low-poly nature of the game and a lot of it would look downright goofy today. Not only does everything have to be redesigned in a new light, but so many things have to be considered such as the way enemies behave and react. Especially considering the transition from turn-based to a much more action-oriented title. The best thing having the old material at hand does is give them an outline, the worst part being any differences will always have the potential to be under massive scrutiny on an already large undertaking. Saying their work is cut out for them is like saying any adaptation of a book to live action is easy work or that any movie remake is easy work. It's nonsense.
Thanks for being sensible about this. There is no way there could be the full FF7 experience in one game. The game is way too massive for one game to have everything done at the fidelity of the newest trailer. Everything is going to have to be redesigned. I'm fine with splitting it into multiple parts as long as the games are meaty enough.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Assuming it is indeed backwards compatible, sure. I guess my question would be, how would the open world portion even run on PS4, given we have yet to see it in action?

It is 100% confirmed by the lead architect of the PS5 that it is PS4 back compat.

Secondly, part 2 won't be on PS4 most likely. And therefore, most likely won't even have to deal with that. But even so, look at FFXV. That was open world.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,123
NYC
This sounds like a terrible business decision, but possibly necessary given the rocky development.

I just feel like episodic gaming only works when you're waiting to see what will happen next. It's a remake, we all know the story already.
As far as business goes, I imagine it's a great decision. Turning what would be a 60 dollar game into something like a 120 dollar game depending on how expensive each episode and how many episodes there are (My guess is 3 chapters at 40 bucks a pop).

For game design though it sounds horrible. Guess there's no end game stuff until the last chapter if at all. Otherwise grinding in the first chapter would like, ruin the next chapters? I'll be interested to see how they handle leveling considering that.
 

Gwarm

Member
Nov 13, 2017
2,157
I feel you.


I bet many people got a PS4 with this remake in mind. It can be a silly decision (I got mine just for the promise of Silent Hills after PT demo, so... lol), but I understand their frustration if this remake finally goes to PS5 even if the first part releases in PS4.
Dude, I got a PS3 with the FF7 remake in mind. I just hope they can get through this before the PS6.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,914
Of course it is, its an impossible game to make at once, its too big.

Episode 1 will be all about Midgar and thats actually a pretty cool proposition if they really flesh it all out
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,183
I still dislike this decision, SE is basically doing the same Peter Jackson did with the Hobbit movies.

4VsqpWH.jpg

Hobbit was a relatively low key adventure story that had no business being a 120+ hr feature divided into three films. not particularly what SE is doing here, modernized FF7 will be a mammoth task regardless of how its meted out
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
hm, you think sony's dead ends after episode 1?

that'd be kinda a bad deal to me.
no, just that there's probably 6 months or some shit exclusivity by release date. signing exclusivity based on the completion of the whole story is a stupid-ass deal for SE. unless Sony is literally footing the bill for these games, it would demonstrate an obscene lack of self-awareness on SE's part. people make jokes about how long it takes them to make games for a reason
 

Worldshaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,945
Michigan
I'll bite if they really let you explore Midgar in much more detail, but modern Square has let me down over and over. I'll wait and see with this.

I'll never buy into hype or pre-order a Square Enix game again.
 

MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
Sucks because it's going to end on a cliffhanger for people who didn't play the og. who knows how long it will take them to finish the whole thing, it would be years of waiting to just see how the game ends.
 

Deleted member 8468

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,109
As far as business goes, I imagine it's a great decision. Turning what would be a 60 dollar game into something like a 120 dollar game depending on how expensive each episode and how many episodes there are (My guess is 3 chapters at 40 bucks a pop).

For game design though it sounds horrible. Guess there's no end game stuff until the last chapter if at all. Otherwise grinding in the first chapter would like, ruin the next chapters? I'll be interested to see how they handle leveling considering that.
I'm thinking from the perspective of diminishing returns from the later episodes, but that's just speculation. They certainly can't sell these as $60 games apiece unless there's some overarching multiplayer content (extremely doubtful) or other thing as an added value. $40 sounds too expensive but also probably likely.

Also, within the realm of grinding I'd imagine each episode has some sort of level cap. They will also likely want to offer some sort of 'default' character for the later episodes in case you didn't play the previous ones, and would want to create parity within those two experiences.

Just seems like a headache all around to me.
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,261
I still don't love turning FFVII into what I presume will be a trilogy, as I would have preferred a graphical and level design compromise to at least get a cohesive remake in one game. For something a bit more updated than the original game, I would have even taken character models on a level of FFXII, as they've aged beautifully, with some wonderfully nuanced facial animations that hold up well. Ideally, though, my dream FFVII remake would have been more along the lines of Resident Evil HD - keeping close the original style of the game, but updating the models, backgrounds, soundtrack, etc.

That being said, it'll be interesting to see where each 'episode' ends using the story beats from the original game, and it's been fascinating to read people's thoughts on how the games could break down. I have to admit, I haven't replayed FFVII in years, and can't quite remember where all the major story beats fall. I mean, Aerith's death feels like the midpoint of the game (with Aerith kinda being the leading lady for the first portion of the game, and Tifa taking over this role in the back half), but skimming a walkthrough, it seems like it's more like it's 2/3rds of the way through.

As many users have discussed, I also have to wonder how many years it'll be between releases, let alone console generation. When all the episodes are done, what will the game's legacy look like, and how will it work as a whole product? There will definitely be technological improvements between a hypothetical Part 1 to a Part 3. I suppose it could end up like the ME trilogy, with a big graphical leap between ME1 and ME2, but ME2 and ME3 look fairly similar.

And then we get to the really, really important questions, like how old will I be by the time all the games are out? Will I have kids? Will my kids have kids?! What if I'm dead?! Thanks for the existential crisis, Square.
 

Deleted member 54073

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 22, 2019
3,983
People freaking out like it's gonna be some sort of Telltale episodic game, it'll most probably be a trilogy of games.
 

GarrettB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
114
I'm thinking from the perspective of diminishing returns from the later episodes, but that's just speculation. They certainly can't sell these as $60 games apiece unless there's some overarching multiplayer content (extremely doubtful) or other thing as an added value. $40 sounds too expensive but also probably likely.

Also, within the realm of grinding I'd imagine each episode has some sort of level cap. They will also likely want to offer some sort of 'default' character for the later episodes in case you didn't play the previous ones, and would want to create parity within those two experiences.

Just seems like a headache all around to me.
It's $60 if you pre-order on Amazon right now. Not sure if these prices ever change. Also I heard that each chapter is full length.

https://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-VII-Remake-PlayStation-4/dp/B00ZS80PC2


added link
 

Kumomeme

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
668
Malaysia
people need to stop use 'episiodic' term or they will keep confuse with game like life is strange..it give different understanding..same with square they need to choose proper term to describe the game to avoid misunderstanding

if the game actually 3 part, just call it 'trilogy' or any suitable term

people nowdays like to overreact even to smallest things..not mention there are some cynical and toxic community that love to trash everything