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OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
I replayed Yellow when it hit the 3DS and yup, it's a classic game and deserves to be ranked among the best 90s JRPGs.

It still does some things better than most Pokémon games. The dungeon design is intricate with worthwhile rewards and provides a genuine challenge. Compare Silph Co., a mid game dungeon, to any dungeon that's been in Pokémon in the last decade. Silph Co. has a unique traversal system with the warps and spin panels, optional areas filled with useful items, unique rewards like Lapras and the Master Ball, and culminates with a challenging boss battle. It's everything you want a dungeon to be in an RPG.

It also has a sense of openness. It's not an open world game, but feels like it at times. You'll eventually hit a roadblock if you venture too far off, but you can get a lot further than one would think. It's also a bit unpredictable how you travel to each area. Instead of going around in a perfect circle or following a line, you are bouncing around all over the map in unexpected ways.

It's not just nostalgia, it's good game design. It's incredible that they fit this all on the Game Boy.

This is another aspect I wanted to touch on but felt it too early to bring up as I've only done Viridian Forest. I recall as a kid that the dungeons were real shit so when I played modern Pokemon games I was so confused. But now that I'm playing this I get it now. I'm not saying this is a hardcore dungeon crawler or anything but this is far more survival oriented than any modern Pokemon. Because my Pikachu was around level 7 and obviously the highest leveled Pokemon, I swapped out my other Pokemon to have turns getting XP as I explored the forest. Got my Manky and some other Pokemon to level 5/6 and then by the end of the dungeon my party is exhausted, I have one potion, no Pokeballs, and little cash. There's only final trainer to fight and he's got a level 10 Caterpee if I recall, which is way above my other Pokemon's levels. I manage to beat him, bleeding profusely. I make it to town by running from every single fight, managing to successfully get away with zero potions on my belt.

That Pokemon Center healing jingle never felt so sweet.

And just like that, I fell in love with Pokemon again.

I saw Mt. Moon on the side and I'm already getting tingly. The music is stuck in my head. I'll tackle it tomorrow and report back.
 

Scruffy8642

Member
Jan 24, 2020
2,856
I do agree, there's something about earlier gens that's so much more simple and relatable. I'm not sure I'd ever recommend someone who hasn't played every (or at least most gens) to jump into the later games. I think half the fun in them is seeing how the games have changed and having new monsters added to a roster you're already familiar with. If you're familiar with none... well that's obviously coming across quite differently. Something worth considering if you have a 3DS is getting them on Virtual Console since you can trade wirelessly and even link them up with the new games and transfer your Pokémon across if you want.

I personally find the first 3 gens feel very different from the rest. Gen 1 is obviously cool, and then 2 is basically a direct sequel and builds upon it. Then Gen 3 goes in a slightly new direction, freshens things up enough to feel new but is still familiar enough. Then I feel like 4 and 5 do their own thing but are still good at it, while 6-8 almost feel like they could be any other monster catching franchise because they've gone so far from the roots and atmosphere of those early gens.

I'd definitely recommend most people start with FR/LG (maybe even LGEP), HG/SS, or the original RSE. I do think the original game boy games are probably too dated for many modern gamers to get into, I mean they felt old when I played them 22 years ago... The remakes of those games are generally better than the originals in every way anyway.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,350
Despite some people's insistence that the games are all the same, every entry is actually completely different and it's no surprise you can absolutely love ORAS while hating Sun and Moon which came right after.

Based on your tastes, I'd recommend HGSS and Let's Go. You'd also probably really like the SWSH DLC but you'd have to play the main game too, and I don't think you'd like that.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,731
England
That looks sick. I thought Mega Pokemon fans hated it though? Isn't it supposed to be bad?

I personally thought getting rid of the "wear pokemon down to engage in a game of RNG to capture thing" was one of the best moves ever.

I mainly watched my boy play the game and it was solidly made. The graphics are chunky, vibrant and full of life. I do find the legacy GBA stuff of "you have walked near me, I will now fight you!" a bit weird, but it is what it is.

No, really good game. I think it is better than SwSh personally - which felt like it needed a little bit more time to bake.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
Should I give Black 2 another shot?
While BW2 are praised by many as an improvement, this is largely due to the expanded dex and postgame. It sounds like BW is somewhat more your thing.
Why are Pokemon games so expensive? Surely one of the most popular franchises of all time had large production? It's baffling. Is it just a bunch of diehards driving prices up? What the fuck is going on?
You only need to look at the sales numbers to know that yes, they had very large productions. That's just the state of the demand.

I wonder if part of it is Pokemon's ability to appeal to every generation of kids. Someone who played ORAS at 10 might want HGSS, but obviously supply won't go up at that point.

Most of Nintendo's IP would probably be the same way if not for digital re-releases; go look up first party GameCube game prices.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,246
What is this Let's Go praise? It's one of the worst games in the entire series. Not only is it one of the easiest in the entire series where your starter pokemon will become absurdly overpowered they can solo the games on their own, but it replaces the wild captures where you get to learn about what moves the wild pokemon could have, experiment with your current pokemon teams before you are locked into a battle and try carefully balance between not knocking out the wild pokemon whilst also not letting it knock you out with a horrible motion controlled mini-game with super jank controls. Absolutely skip that one at all costs.

If you want to play through Kanto, the best way is with the Fire Red and Leaf Green remakes. Same Kanto dex, but with added features like Abilities and held items to mix up the battles more, and you get a meatier post-game experience as well that even expands beyond the Kanto Dex (Along with a remixed Elite 4 as well). Then after that you want to go up to Heart Gold and Soul Silver if possible. Arguably the strongest games in the series (Not my personal favs, but they are certainly up there).

The only downside being they are very hard to find physical copies of nowadays and will ask for a fairly decent price to get one.
 

Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,188
Let's Go is a pretty good remake sequel of Yellow if you don't mind playing PoGo for every wild encounter.
I hate how people hated it.

I loved it. Other than the catching mechanic, it was such a better game than sword/shield. Game looked better, had more overworld Pokemon walking about, a story, and it didn't make you feel like you were 5 years old.

You actually had to use more than one move.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
What is this Let's Go praise? It's one of the worst games in the entire series. Not only is it one of the easiest in the entire series where your starter pokemon will become absurdly overpowered they can solo the games on their own, but it replaces the wild captures where you get to learn about what moves the wild pokemon could have, experiment with your current pokemon teams before you are locked into a battle and try carefully balance between not knocking out the wild pokemon whilst also not letting it knock you out with a horrible motion controlled mini-game with super jank controls. Absolutely skip that one at all costs.
I loved Let's Go and had a blast with it compared to... really anything since AlphaSapphire (which I devoured in two weeks). My extremely casual gamer fiancee who only bought her Switch to play Animal Crossing also loved it but won't touch any of the newer Pokemon games.

Different strokes, I guess. What's interesting to me is that while Let's Go does have more gatekeeping in place than the original Red/Blue/Yellow, or even FireRed/LeafGreen it's still a much more open, nonlinear experience than like... anything from Gen 5 onward just because they largely stuck to the same plot and formula. I understand the capture mechanics being replaced with essentially Pokemon Go makes it a hard sell for more traditional Pokemon fans, but taken on its own, I greatly enjoyed it.

I hate how people hated it.

I loved it. Other than the catching mechanic, it was such a better game than sword/shield. Game looked better, had more overworld Pokemon walking about, a story, and it didn't make you feel like you were 5 years old.

You actually had to use more than one move.
All this.
 

Murr

Banned
Dec 5, 2019
366
If you are gonna be playing the Johto games you should make every effort to try and look for Heartgold/Soulsilver used at your local game store. Game's bonkers good. Just an astoundingly great package.

Also seconding the opinion that B/W would be more to your tastes than any modern Pokemon game. It didn't have any old region Pokemon until the postgame, can you believe that? The absolute boldest Pokemon has ever been.

The stretch of games from Platinum to Black2/White2 was an embarrassment of riches. I'm not sure an RPG series has had such a streak outside of like, DQ 5-8.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,350
BW is interruptions and dialogue heavy, I fail to see how it fits the OP's taste
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,571
I generally agree with you, OP. There's a part of the fan base that will call you a "genwunner" for that, but that is stupid and disingenuous given how much the franchise has changed over the years. It's only natural that a part of the fan base will feel alianated by the changes.

It all depends on what you are looking for when you play Pokemon. In my case, it was always the exploration aspect, the thrill of getting to a new area and discovering what kind of Pokémon are living there, what secrets are hidden, what side paths i can get that will lead me to a reward. Modern Pokémon games completely botched that, giving in for linearity and a focus on the narrative. I don't like it.

It seems you have similar tastes to mine, because you like gen 1 and 3, and you didn't like 5. Era loves gen 5 for some reason, i detest it. It was when the games started to get extremely linear and focusing so much on story that the characters simply won't shut up.

Based on that, i risk saying you will enjoy gens 2 and 4 immensely. They are both expansive and full of different areas and side paths to explore. Heart Gold and Soul Silver are probably the best games on the franchise, and will blow your mind. The original GB games are great too, and it seems you like retro stuff, so you could try them. If you go for gen 4, be sure to get Platinum specifically, it's much improved from D/P.

Have a blast, OP!

That looks sick. I thought Mega Pokemon fans hated it though? Isn't it supposed to be bad?

It's really good. I've twisted my nose on it for months, and now I'm finally playing it and am enjoying it immensely.

Aside from the dull catching mechanic, the game is old style Pokémon with modern looks and features. It's incredible.

The only things is that they are almost a 1:1 remake of Yellow, so you might wait to play them so you won't get burned out.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,571
Should I give Black 2 another shot?

No, i didn't like it when it came out, tried it again last year and it still kinda sucks. I don't think your opinion on that will change.

The original BW are even worse because they are more linear and chatty (although i feel like they have a more balanced roster of Pokémon).
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,571
Every time I think about buying Let's Go, I remember that it can only be played with one hand while docked and I just forget about it again.

That was my main caveat when i played the demo too, and the reason why i held up on playing it for so long.

But once i decided to suck it up, i got used to it and I'm having a wonderful time with the game. It's a nostalgia bomb in the best possible way, you can tell there was a lot of passion and care for the old-school fans with it.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
People against one handed rpgs? Weird. I love how you can play games like Suikoden one handed.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,246
BW is interruptions and dialogue heavy, I fail to see how it fits the OP's taste

It's got a very controlled pokedex of just new pokemon with it until the post game, with pretty much brand new pokemon being introduced on every route, and each pokemon is designed appropriately for each area as well, so you don't have any problems like, for example, USUM Noibat being really early on in the game but having such an absurdly high evolution level that it won't evolve until you are pretty much at the end of the game.

Ironically because of this though, pokemon from Gen 5 does have the problem of fitting into later games due to their level evolutions being quite high, such as Rufflet and Vullaby users would be familiar with.
 

Joltik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,767
People against one handed rpgs? Weird. I love how you can play games like Suikoden one handed.
I think the issue is that you can only use one joycon if you want to play this game docked. Switch pro controllers aren't compatible with the game. Also, are you okay with motion controls, because you will have to waggle the joy con to catch them.

Now, I found it to be easier to catch Pokemon in handheld mode since that's mostly gyro controls. Though the catching did get repetitive to me and I would have rather have wild battles since it's more chill and it's more convenient just to press a to toss a ball to catch Pokémon.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
BW is interruptions and dialogue heavy, I fail to see how it fits the OP's taste
Yeah, BW1 presaged the 3DS era in a number of respects, with the map being made more linear to accommodate the increased focus on the story, late game boss rosters being relatively capped, and Bianca and Cheren as the first real multirival setup following RSE. People lump BW1 with the other DS era games but they're more transitory to the 3DS era than people give them dis/credit for.

OP is welcome to give Black 1 a try, but going by their thoughts on the 3DS entries it doesn't sound like a great fit, especially if Black 2 wasn't floating their boat.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
Progress:

Beat Brock.

Team:
Metapod - lv 7
Nidorano - Lv 8
Pikachu - Lv 9
Pidgey - Lv 10
Nidorana - Lv 7
Rattata - Lv 7

What a battle.

Gameplan: Initial gameplan was to use Metapod for a battle of defense vs defense. Problem is Metapod doesn't have a defense lowering attack currently. The gameplan was to use a potion every debuff or buff cycle. So just spam string shot to lower Geodude's speed so he'll miss more then when I get low HP, use a potion. Use harden to raise defense, then use a potion when low. Then attack. It didn't work out and in the end just made me waste potions. So I took out Pikachu, not to attack but to debuff. I spammed tail whip and the other move that lowers attack to put things in my favor and make it a battle of attrition. Switched out Pika for Nidorana and Nidoran and watched Geodude and Onyx's HP fall....slowly. Ended up running out of Potions mostly because my previous plan backfired. Ended up fighting till the end with no healing items fully believing in my strategy.

Still won.

This. This is Pokemon.

yG1hI8Qh.jpg


kBl67Ixh.jpg


Bubububu genwunners. It's just nostallllllgia. Better crafted. Better battles. Better dungeons. Better resource management. Better RPG.

RrX4aU4.gif


So far, for my money, Pokemon Yellow is the best Pokemon I've played by virtue of having the cojones to give you a Pokemon not fire, water, or grass. That "tradition" is stupid. It completely changes the early game dynamic and makes it legit as all fuck. First time I played Blue, I picked Bulbasaur (my baby). This is different than that experience ten fold.

This reminds me why I think later Pokemon Type classifications are fucking stupid. Here, it's ground type. But they eventually made a rock type. What is the difference considering most ground types use rock moves also? The Types of modern Pokemon are redundant and dumb.

Mt. Moon next.

JUtpnF7.gif


What a game.
 

Freeglader

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 13, 2017
826
I really enjoyed reading through your thoughtful post op. I agree with all your points. Based on what you said, I think you'll be able to find enjoyment in Gens 1-5. After that was where I lost interest in the franchise.

Gens 3 and 5 were my favorite because I always felt like they had the most number of brand new Pokémon unique to their region.
 

gardfish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
This reminds me why I think later Pokemon Type classifications are fucking stupid. Here, it's ground type. But they eventually made a rock type. What is the difference considering most ground types use rock moves also? The Types of modern Pokemon are redundant and dumb.

Mt. Moon next.

??? Brock is already a Rock type leader in the gen 1 games lol. Like, Rock and Ground existed together from the very beginning.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,843
Yellow was the first one I owned. All I remember really was how awful the pikachu voice sounded coming from the gameboy speaker.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
They did a good job of adjusting the balance in Yellow compared to the other Gen I games. Since you won't have Bulbasaur or Squirtle, Brock's rocks lost a couple of levels, and you can catch Nidorans and Mankey that learn Fighting moves relatively quickly. Then there's the early battles with the rival determining his Eevee's evolution path, with his Eevee becoming a type weak against Pikachu if the player lost the first battle. Later in the game, the Gym matches ramp up compared to Red and Blue, and include a few mixups to mess with veteran players. Yellow doesn't displace Red and Blue as a "definitive" version of the game in the same way that other third versions do, but it's a good B-side to the other Gen I games that plays well whether it's someone's only experience with the originals or as a complement to its predecessors.

OP, if you appreciate limited rosters and not starting with the classic type trio, you might want to look into Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness on the GameCube somewhere down the line. They're spinoffs that still follow mainline mechanics (you can trade Pokemon to the GBA games and host battles), but they go off in their own direction.
 
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Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,585
I don't understand how you enjoyed ORAS but not Black 2 since the latter is easily the better game and the former inherited all the handholdy bullshit of more modern games, but you do you OP.

Glad you're enjoying the series, Yellow was my first pokemon game way back when and I got Gold and Crystal right after which were even better to me. Pokemon is weird in that the creators seem to completely underestimate children and think that they need everything explained and given to them on a silver platter. I agree that recent games having no jerk rivals or overexplaining things just makes them a whole lot more boring. It's really weird how the games actively reject giving the players an option to make things more challenging.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,506
The Digital World
I don't understand how you enjoyed ORAS but not Black 2 since the latter is easily the better game and the former inherited all the handholdy bullshit of more modern games, but you do you OP.
Speaking for myself (and after replaying them recently), I found ORAS to be way better than BW2 since the latter just rush rush rushes you from gym to gym.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Honestly I think the series peaked handily with Ruby/Sapphire by the virtue of its incredible exploration. Imagine diving deep into ocean pockets and finally stumbling upon a hidden underwater cave with writings in a language you don't understand, finally figuring out what they mean with the manual (I know it's Braille) and kickstarting the best legendary hunt in series history. I was like 10 or something, but I remember it all of these years later. My favorite Pokemon-related memory bar none.

That said, the original set of games has stellar pacing and surely is tons refreshing to play after how hand-holdey and dialog-heavy this series has become. So yeah, I'd agree.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,894
Hopp in Sword drove me up the wall, stop getting my way about you trying to be the best and explaining things to me, just let me get on my way and have fun damn it.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
I don't understand how you enjoyed ORAS but not Black 2 since the latter is easily the better game and the former inherited all the handholdy bullshit of more modern games, but you do you OP.

Glad you're enjoying the series, Yellow was my first pokemon game way back when and I got Gold and Crystal right after which were even better to me. Pokemon is weird in that the creators seem to completely underestimate children and think that they need everything explained and given to them on a silver platter. I agree that recent games having no jerk rivals or overexplaining things just makes them a whole lot more boring. It's really weird how the games actively reject giving the players an option to make things more challenging.

Black 2 iirc was gym after gym after gym and boring dungeons. Last gym I remember in Black 2 was some boring gym that was a spider web gym. It was really boring.

ORAS is full of adventure, has more non-linearity, a heavy emphasis on catching Pokemon via the Navidex (which I ADORE).

Honestly I think the series peaked handily with Ruby/Sapphire by the virtue of its incredible exploration. Imagine diving deep into ocean pockets and finally stumbling upon a hidden underwater cave with writings in a language you don't understand, finally figuring out what they mean with the manual (I know it's Braille) and kickstarting the best legendary hunt in series history. I was like 10 or something, but I remember it all of these years later. My favorite Pokemon-related memory bar none.

That said, the original set of games has stellar pacing and surely is tons refreshing to play after how hand-holdey and dialog-heavy this series has become. So yeah, I'd agree.
This sounds utterly fantastic.
 

cdigs

Member
Apr 4, 2019
783
A legitimate copy of HeartGold or SoulSilver typically goes for a couple hundred bucks now, just so you know.

Don't scare the guy off!

Just teasing. That's true for complete-in-box copies, but if you just want the game, you'll be shelling out around $80-100. It's crazy, but for the best Pokémon game... I'd pay it. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

Ploppee

Member
Nov 28, 2018
1,041
i will never forget my amazement at the post-game of gold and silver. I couldn't believe what was happening.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
Mt. Moon completed!

Good:
- Labyrinth like dungeon design with multiple paths. Far from the boring stuff from Black 2, X, or Sun.
- Pokemon were dead tired by the end of dungeon and ran out of healing supplies again.
- Just good shit, period.

Bad:
- Pokemon variety. Zubat after Zubat and Geodude after Geodude. I fought one Clefairy. One! And I didn't have a Pokeball at the time. I'm going to go back and hunt for another. I remember hunting for one during Blue and hating it so that brings back bad memories lmao.

So many TMs! I like that they're one use. Makes them really count.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,380
Midgar, With Love
Don't scare the guy off!

Just teasing. That's true for complete-in-box copies, but if you just want the game, you'll be shelling out around $80-100. It's crazy, but for the best Pokémon game... I'd pay it. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I really need to lock down one of those $80-100 copies sometime, then! I'm willing to spend that much. I dropped $70 at GameStop two years ago for what turned out to be a counterfeit, though -- that sucked.

I'm putting Xenosaga: Episode III up on eBay tonight, so hopefully it sells and I can swap that cash for HeartGold.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
One of the flaws of Pokemon as a franchise, especially as an adult, is that everyone in the game worlds and everything in their world revolves around Pokemon. They don't live lives except through Pokemon. Go into a house of a family? The daughter says,"dad loves Pokemon too!" That's so surprising, kid. Someone in this world that likes Pokemon? I'm legitimately shocked. The scientists you meet only ever study Pokemon. Kids, boys, girls, women, men, old and young just only care about these pocket monsters. They don't have lives that exists outside of them. What sports do they play besides watching these monsters fight? What job is there besides Gym Trainer or Pokemart Assistant? It's a horrifically sterile game world due to its inherent simplicity that seems to have been done to achieve nothing but sell more toys. I mean, it's fun and charming, but this is a massive flaw I've seen that embodies the entire brunt of the series. I've never seen any other RPG series like it in how small and clinical the world feels.

Take Final Fantasy. Let's use one example, oh say, FFVII because it's the most popular. People really like Materia in that game. It's useful. But they don't live their whole lives around materia. There's more to it than just Materia despite it being a central part of the game story. You've got resorts where people enjoy the beach, geo-politics, slums where people are just trying to survive, Cetra and the Ancients, themes about the nature of man and what makes a cause good and worthy. Then you look at Pokemon and....

t4kNabE.gif


Don't get me wrong. Pokemon Yellow is a great game and I don't begrudge it too much because after all, it's a Game Boy game and given the constraints, what they managed to achieve on the hardware is nothing short of awe inspiring. But later generations never got out of this Pokemon obsessed hole where anything and everything revolves around Pokemon. It makes me question how or why an adult could find such a world charming much less good. It's so sterile, cold, and one-dimensional as if its very creation is meant to sell you something.

I really need to lock down one of those $80-100 copies sometime, then! I'm willing to spend that much. I dropped $70 at GameStop two years ago for what turned out to be a counterfeit, though -- that sucked.

I'm putting Xenosaga: Episode III up on eBay tonight, so hopefully it sells and I can swap that cash for HeartGold.

The copy I brought up was just a cart.

Always check old cart-based games (especially DS) for whether or not it's a repro.
 

Joltik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,767
So many TMs! I like that they're one use. Makes them really count.
This is one of the many things I don't miss about the earlier generations. One time use TMs just end up as rare items I never use, similar to FF's mega elixirs. I would worry about using them on the wrong Pokémon or at the wrong time, so they end up wasting away in my item bag. I prefer the reusable TMs since they allow more experimentation and customization with your Pokémon without feeling you made a mistake adjusting them as you see fit. That along with Move Reminder/Deleter and getting rid of TMs are some of the best QoL things that the later gens brought to the table.